the specific factors that led to sashi's demise.....

[Tacosman]

1) while it's too early to rate his two drafts in total, it doesn't look promising for the highest/highest profile picks where decisions actually had to be made.  Corey colemanr, even when healthy, sure as heck doesn't look like a first half of the first reciever.  Peppers, well, we know what he's looked like this year.  Kizer was a dreadful second round pick.  Garrett wasn't really a pick to fault him for or give him credit for. The end of the first round  tight end hasn't broken out yet, but at least there is still some hope.  And the whole "but look how many of the late round picks are still on the roster and playing minutes" isn't really a plus based on where this organization needs to go- none of those players are likely to be positive difference makers when we are in a position to be good.  And the low attrition rate is partly a factor of how bad our roster sucked.  

2) Wentz and Watson did look good this year(well watson when he was playing), and like it or not people see that and know that we had yes/no calls on those picks.  Regardless of how good you felt about it at the time, those players either did or do look like they would have been worthy picks where they were picked and where we could have picked them.  And there are consequences for that.

3) Despite all the analytics talk, it didn't seem to actually gel with some of the picks or moves.  How in the hell were peppers or kizer analytics based picks?  Kizer appears the opposite of that- the baseball equivalent of a five tool player with a terrible on base percentage and an empty batting average.  Peppers was a "oh he's famous and was a superstar at michigan" pick...it screams of something an 11 year old would do.  Not someone who supposedly is invested in analytics.  So it would have been nice, despite all the rhetoric, to actually see it put into play on some of these key picks. Same with the kenny britt signing...yes, he was decent in 2016. What do the analytics(and I mean more sophisticated data like catch%) say about his consistent performance before that?  It almost seems like sashi was a 12 year old who looked on the back of his football card and said"oh, over a thousand yards last year...I'll take him".  When a more detailed look at his epected performance going forward raised some troubling questions.  

4) Despite all the five year plan rhetoric, nobody in the nfl gets that long a window.  Nobody.  Someone may get a contract that long, but thats never a window for evaluation.  the nature of this league dictates that much.  So you have to operate(whether you are a gm or a coach) within the nature of that real window, not the nature of your ideal window for evaluation.  I don't know that sashi did that....if you want to take a qb high(Im assuming he would this year...hell anyone would this year now), it's best not to create this ideal situation of when you're going to do it in your own little sandbox because the realities of the nfl may clash with that.  The reality for him now is he didn't take a qb high, and now someone else will get to.....if he ever gets another nfl gm job(unlikely anytime soon) he'll realize this next time- yes, you may have an idea of how you want things to fall into place and in what order, but you have to work within the realities of the nfl in making that happen.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, Tacosman said:

1) while it's too early to rate his two drafts in total, it doesn't look promising for the highest/highest profile picks where decisions actually had to be made.  Corey colemanr, even when healthy, sure as heck doesn't look like a first half of the first reciever.  Peppers, well, we know what he's looked like this year.  Kizer was a dreadful second round pick.  Garrett wasn't really a pick to fault him for or give him credit for. The end of the first round  tight end hasn't broken out yet, but at least there is still some hope.  And the whole "but look how many of the late round picks are still on the roster and playing minutes" isn't really a plus based on where this organization needs to go- none of those players are likely to be positive difference makers when we are in a position to be good.  And the low attrition rate is partly a factor of how bad our roster sucked.  

2) Wentz and Watson did look good this year(well watson when he was playing), and like it or not people see that and know that we had yes/no calls on those picks.  Regardless of how good you felt about it at the time, those players either did or do look like they would have been worthy picks where they were picked and where we could have picked them.  And there are consequences for that.

3) Despite all the analytics talk, it didn't seem to actually gel with some of the picks or moves.  How in the hell were peppers or kizer analytics based picks?  Kizer appears the opposite of that- the baseball equivalent of a five tool player with a terrible on base percentage and an empty batting average.  Peppers was a "oh he's famous and was a superstar at michigan" pick...it screams of something an 11 year old would do.  Not someone who supposedly is invested in analytics.  So it would have been nice, despite all the rhetoric, to actually see it put into play on some of these key picks. Same with the kenny britt signing...yes, he was decent in 2016. What do the analytics(and I mean more sophisticated data like catch%) say about his consistent performance before that?  It almost seems like sashi was a 12 year old who looked on the back of his football card and said"oh, over a thousand yards last year...I'll take him".  When a more detailed look at his epected performance going forward raised some troubling questions.  

4) Despite all the five year plan rhetoric, nobody in the nfl gets that long a window.  Nobody.  Someone may get a contract that long, but thats never a window for evaluation.  the nature of this league dictates that much.  So you have to operate(whether you are a gm or a coach) within the nature of that real window, not the nature of your ideal window for evaluation.  I don't know that sashi did that....if you want to take a qb high(Im assuming he would this year...hell anyone would this year now), it's best not to create this ideal situation of when you're going to do it in your own little sandbox because the realities of the nfl may clash with that.  The reality for him now is he didn't take a qb high, and now someone else will get to.....if he ever gets another nfl gm job(unlikely anytime soon) he'll realize this next time- yes, you may have an idea of how you want things to fall into place and in what order, but you have to work within the realities of the nfl in making that happen.

Mostly agree Taco, but didn't Williams rave about us taking Peppers? And now he has him out of position playing center field a mile off the ball... Go figure.... 

[Clevfan4life]

21 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Mostly agree Taco, but didn't Williams rave about us taking Peppers? And now he has him out of position playing center field a mile off the ball... Go figure.... 

but he does that with the other guys too. It's just something he's doing. I feel like he's trying to ease them into a system and by playing them back now he's allowing them to see things knowing full well that they may miss out on certain plays because they'll be out of position. I suspect next year things will be different. It's possible he will be asking things of those safeties that our young guys right now can't do unless they play that far back.

[Tacosman]

41 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Mostly agree Taco, but didn't Williams rave about us taking Peppers? And now he has him out of position playing center field a mile off the ball... Go figure.... 

remove that from the equation though....in terms of his game tape when he is attempting to make plays, does he look like a first round pick?

[Mark O]

11 hours ago, hoorta said:

Mostly agree Taco, but didn't Williams rave about us taking Peppers? And now he has him out of position playing center field a mile off the ball... Go figure.... 

I still think coaches are going to rave about every draft pick when it happens.  What else are they gonna do?  Like Hue and his "trust me" on Kessler.   He has to support his guys or the guys he's given.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

[Canton Dawg]

I think the writing was on the wall when the Browns played Cincy.

When Hue & Jimmah ran over to AJ Mcarron and started to act like they were long lost brothers, I wondered where Sashi was.

That's when I began to wonder if Sashi didn't undermine that trade, which put him on Haslam's $hit list. 

 

[Tour2ma]

Quote

the specific factors that led to sashi's demise.....

While your guesses are neither original or insightful, or for that matter particularly well informed, they can't be all be dismissed out of hand.

One that can be, however, is the five-year plan understanding. While it is true you don't get the full five, you should get more than the first 1-3/4... especially when even a blind possum should be able to see what this organization is was poised on the doorstep to do. Still is poised to some degree, but the damage assessment of this move has not yet been fully tallied.

The one factor that has been confirmed is that Jimmah still has a spine of jello... as apparently does Dee.

[The Gipper]

10 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

While your guesses are neither original or insightful, or for that matter particularly well informed, they can't be all be dismissed out of hand.

So? His guesses may be perfectly accurate, but not insightful.?

One that can be, however, is the five-year plan understanding. While it is true you don't get the full five, you should get more than the first 1-3/4... especially when even a blind possum should be able to see what this organization is was poised on the doorstep to do. Still is poised to some degree, but the damage assessment of this move has not yet been fully tallied.

The one factor that has been confirmed is that Jimmah still has a spine of jello... as apparently does Dee.

Well....there may not be a solid mix of collagen and calcium in the entire bunch....JH, Dee, Hue, Sashi. 

And....OK, call me a blind possum...and tell us what this organization is on the doorstep of doing....since you believe yourself to so insightful.

 

[Tacosman]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

While your guesses are neither original or insightful, or for that matter particularly well informed, they can't be all be dismissed out of hand.

One that can be, however, is the five-year plan understanding. While it is true you don't get the full five, you should get more than the first 1-3/4... especially when even a blind possum should be able to see what this organization is was poised on the doorstep to do. Still is poised to some degree, but the damage assessment of this move has not yet been fully tallied.

The one factor that has been confirmed is that Jimmah still has a spine of jello... as apparently does Dee.

should according to who?  you?  It's a *CONTINUAL* assessment....there is no definite time allotment of what a guy 'should' get.  You were dead wrong about him going forward with this organization, so no surprise you don't see this as well.

If he had actually been true to analytics on some of his moves and picks, maybe he isn't gone so soon.  But as part of the continual assessment, Jimmy could see that he wanted someone else making all these picks in 2018.  It's not unreasonable to think that you don't get to pick the Corey Colemans, Jabril peppers, and Deshone Kizers of the world and then get to make a bunch more picks your third draft.  Some of it was bad drafting, some of it bad luck.  Too bad, so sad. 

And yes, we are in a better position now going forward than 2 years ago.  agree there.  But barring some kind of complete train wreck management, we were bound to be.  Just doing absolutely nothing at all would have guaranteed that. Be this bad for 2-3 years running and you're going to build up some picks and get in a better position due to the nature of the draft(ie picking at the top of the first and second round instead of the middle or bottom).  Looking at our roster we have a decent offensive line, a really good young DE, and that's it...but we do have a lot of upcoming draft picks.  We would be in a much better position than we are now heading into 2018 if we hadn't missed(or what looks like misses now, I haven't completely given up on some of them) with some key picks already.  Jimmy wanted to ensure that with the picks we do have going forward we have more success with them. 

I'm excited about the 2018 draft though...either rosen or darnold look promising at #1, and then we'll see whats at 6-10 or hopefully even take that second high first pick and trade down for more assets once we take rosen/darnold at 1. 

 

[Hempman]

Jackson sucks. He wastes talent. That is what led to "Sashi's downfall". Hue was mad because he didn't get Pat Mahomes last draft. He pushed for a tradeup and didn't get his way.

[jcam222]

The nail in the coffin was his intentional botching of the McCarron deal. Guys like Haslam don't react very well to direct blatant insubordination nor should they. Whether you think the deal sucked or not it's unacceptable behavior. 

[Dutch Oven]

1 hour ago, jcam222 said:

The nail in the coffin was his intentional botching of the McCarron deal. Guys like Haslam don't react very well to direct blatant insubordination nor should they. Whether you think the deal sucked or not it's unacceptable behavior. 

When he tells his subordinates to rip off trucking companies, they better damn well rip off trucking companies.

[jcam222]

30 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said:

When he tells his subordinates to rip off trucking companies, they better damn well rip off trucking companies.

Lol exactly