The Gipper Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Dutch Oven said: Well we could know by this time tomorrow if Sam Darnold will be entering the Draft. Why is it in the back of my mind that I think that this guy is not going to be very good? Is it the "Ghost of USC QBs Past" syndrome? Matt Leinert, Matt Barkley, Mark Sanchez ...Paul McDonald! etc? The fact that USC QBs are always overhyped? I think that is a big part. The fact that he had a better year last year than this year? I do not see him as "our guy". Of course, he could change a lot of minds tonight vs. Ohio State. Or...Ohio State's defense could make him look ordinary, not that he may not seem that way already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, The Gipper said: Why is it in the back of my mind that I think that this guy is not going to be very good? Is it the "Ghost of USC QBs Past" syndrome? Matt Leinert, Matt Barkley, Mark Sanchez ...Paul McDonald! etc? The fact that USC QBs are always overhyped? I think that is a big part. The fact that he had a better year last year than this year? I do not see him as "our guy". Of course, he could change a lot of minds tonight vs. Ohio State. Or...Ohio State's defense could make him look ordinary, not that he may not seem that way already. I'm trying to get myself to like the idea of taking Darnold, but I always go back to the USC/UCLA game and Rosen was so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 3 hours ago, gumby73 said: Rudolph did help himself with his top 5 offense against a good top 5 defense in VT. Certainly looks the part but as most college QB’s, can he do it from under center with eyes down field. Starting to look through some depth charts to see who is doing it with their senior leadership on the field? Rudolph now is the leader in clubhouse with both OT’s & Center as seniors. Rudolph also maybe surrounded by best team WR Core? James Washington (1549yards) & Marcell Ateman(1156yards) are both seniors surely to be drafted. Did you see the legal 1 yard pick block that Ateman laid on someone? Cleaned a clock!! Rudolph drops a hell’ve a deep ball, but the TV guys brought up a great point on the confusion on intermediate routes. Either sit down on a route and box out defender if needed or drive your arrsss’ back to the ball but god don’t fade or curl routes..almost got a Brady look out of Rudolph Yup, Washington looked more than decent as a wr, the combine will tell. 1 hour ago, The Gipper said: Why is it in the back of my mind that I think that this guy is not going to be very good? Is it the "Ghost of USC QBs Past" syndrome? Matt Leinert, Matt Barkley, Mark Sanchez ...Paul McDonald! etc? The fact that USC QBs are always overhyped? I think that is a big part. The fact that he had a better year last year than this year? I do not see him as "our guy". Of course, he could change a lot of minds tonight vs. Ohio State. Or...Ohio State's defense could make him look ordinary, not that he may not seem that way already. Darnold is Andrew Luck in comparison to Kizer in college. About the same difference as comparing Kizer to Tom Brady in the pros. Regarding USC qbs, yup- we have our very own Cody Kessler. Plenty of pro bums besides. But let's not forget about Carson Palmer. Gip, same illogic I have in my bias against Notre Dame QBs. For every Joe Montana, you have two Jimmy Clausens, one Deshone Kizer, and a Partridge in a 🍐 pear tree. 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 25 minutes ago, hoorta said: Yup, Washington looked more than decent as a wr, the combine will tell. Darnold is Andrew Luck in comparison to Kizer in college. About the same difference as comparing Kizer to Tom Brady in the pros. Regarding USC qbs, yup- we have our very own Cody Kessler. Plenty of pro bums besides. But let's not forget about Carson Palmer. Gip, same illogic I have in my bias against Notre Dame QBs. For every Joe Montana, you have two Jimmy Clausens, one Deshone Kizer, and a Partridge in a 🍐 pear tree. 😁 I hear you on the Notre Dame thing. Not a great track record. Here is that record: RkYearRndPickPosDrAgeTmFromToAP1PBStCarAVGGSQBrecCmpAttYdsTDIntAttYdsTDCollege/Univ12017252 DeShone KizerQB21CLE20172017001014140-14-02394462580921713585Notre DameCollege Stats22010248 Jimmy ClausenQB22CAR20102015001322141-13-02554722520714371020Notre DameCollege Stats32007122 Brady QuinnQB22CLE20072012002224204-16-029655030431217441851Notre DameCollege Stats420007214 Jarious JacksonQB23DEN200020030000510-1-01122114017150Notre DameCollege Stats5199312 Rick MirerQB23SEA1993200300532806824-44-01088204311969507624211309Notre DameCollege Stats619874110 Steve BeuerleinQB22RAI198820030146914710247-55-018943328240461471122254965Notre DameCollege Stats7198411281 Blair KielQB22TAM1984199100042530-3-0108193129687161051Notre DameCollege Stats81980489 Rusty LischQB23STL1980198400023020-1-055115547111201300Notre DameCollege Stats91979382 Joe Montana HOFQB23SFO197919943812123192164117-47-03409539140551273139457167620Notre DameCollege Stats101971499 Joe TheismannQB21MIA197419851288716712477-47-02044360225206160138355181517Notre DameCollege Stats111969230 Terry HanrattyQB21PIT19691976000850186-12-01654312510243521991Notre DameCollege Stats12196912308 Bob BeldenQBDAL000Notre DameCollege Stats131965212 John HuarteQB22NYJ1966197200012410-1-019482301512520Notre DameCollege Stats14196520277 George WilsonQB22DET1966196600151472-5-046112764510271370Notre Dame15196312168 Daryle LamonicaQB22GNB19631974257761518866-16-6128826011915416413816664014Notre DameCollege Stats16196012 George IzoQB22STL1960196600052663-3-01323171791123210-230Notre DameCollege Stats17195514 Ralph GuglielmiQB22WAS195519630011366278-16-3292626411924521776332Notre DameCollege Stats18195112 Bob WilliamsQB21CHI1951195500102973-4-0741609811012291120Notre Dame19194919 Frank TripuckaQB21PHI1949196301319755617-34-187917451028269124431016Notre Dame20194816139 George RattermanQB21BOS19471956004092469-8-173713961047391961064914Notre Dame21194611 Boley DancewiczQB21BOS1946194800102329623815511229652292Notre Dame22194614 Johnny LujackQB21CHI194819511230452813-5-04048086295415413374221Notre Dame23194411 Angelo BertelliQB23BOS1946194800001657616697281914-151Notre DameCollege Stats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 Three and a half decent QBs from Notre Dame over the past 80 years. Montana , Theisman and Lamonica....and the half being Steve Beurlein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 Here is the list for USC: k Year Rnd Pick Pos DrAge Tm From To AP1 PB St CarAV G GS QBrec Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD College/Univ 1 2016 3 93 Cody Kessler QB 23 CLE 2016 2017 0 0 1 3 13 8 0-8-0 139 218 1506 6 3 12 17 0 USC College Stats 2 2013 4 98 Matt Barkley QB 22 PHI 2013 2016 0 0 0 2 11 6 1-5-0 159 266 1911 8 18 12 0 0 USC College Stats 3 2009 1 5 Mark Sanchez QB 22 NYJ 2009 2016 0 0 5 34 77 72 37-35-0 1295 2285 15219 86 86 169 449 13 USC College Stats 4 2008 5 137 John David Booty QB MIN 0 0 0 USC 5 2006 1 10 Matt Leinart QB 23 ARI 2006 2012 0 0 1 12 33 18 8-10-0 366 641 4065 15 21 47 89 2 USC College Stats 6 2005 7 230 Matt Cassel QB 23 NWE 2005 2017 0 1 5 46 107 81 36-45-0 1571 2666 17449 104 81 266 1012 5 USC College Stats 7 2003 1 1 Carson Palmer QB 23 CIN 2004 2017 0 3 11 106 182 181 92-88-1 3941 6307 46247 294 187 301 474 8 USC College Stats 8 1996 7 240 Kyle Wachholtz QB GNB 0 0 0 USC College Stats 9 1995 4 99 Rob Johnson QB 22 JAX 1995 2003 0 0 1 19 48 29 12-17-0 494 806 5795 30 23 140 877 4 USC College Stats 10 1991 1 24 Todd Marinovich QB 22 RAI 1991 1992 0 0 0 3 8 8 3-5-0 104 205 1345 8 9 12 44 0 USC College Stats 11 1991 10 260 Pat O'Hara QB TAM 0 0 0 USC College Stats 12 1989 6 141 Rodney Peete QB 23 DET 1989 2004 0 0 7 46 104 87 45-42-0 1344 2346 16338 76 92 270 1139 16 USC College Stats 13 1980 4 109 Paul McDonald QB 22 CLE 1980 1986 0 0 1 15 85 21 8-13-0 411 767 5269 24 37 37 6 1 USC College Stats 14 1978 5 131 Rob Hertel QB 23 CIN 1978 1978 0 0 0 0 3 0 1 4 9 0 0 1 0 0 USC College Stats 15 1977 6 140 Vince Evans QB 22 CHI 1977 1995 0 0 2 29 100 39 14-25-0 704 1390 9485 52 74 212 1129 14 USC College Stats 16 1975 7 176 Pat Haden QB 22 RAM 1976 1981 0 1 4 33 65 55 35-19-1 731 1363 9296 52 60 124 609 6 USC College Stats 17 1973 8 205 Mike Rae QB 22 OAK 1976 1979 0 0 0 9 28 8 4-4-0 124 249 1536 12 14 44 300 2 USC College Stats 18 1970 8 201 Mike Holmgren QB STL 0 0 0 USC 19 1965 20 270 Craig Fertig QB PIT 0 0 0 USC College Stats 20 1964 1 2 Pete Beathard QB 22 KAN 1964 1973 0 0 3 26 110 35 18-16-1 575 1282 8176 43 84 131 680 11 USC College Stats 21 1963 10 136 Bill Nelsen QB 22 PIT 1963 1972 0 1 5 53 90 74 40-31-3 963 1905 14165 98 101 84 89 2 USC College Stats 22 1962 34 268 Ben Charles QB BUF 0 0 0 USC 23 1953 2 24 Rudy Bukich QB 22 RAM 1953 1968 0 0 2 30 103 41 21-17-3 626 1190 8433 61 74 112 109 9 USC 24 1945 1 8 Jim Hardy QB 22 WAS 1946 1952 0 1 1 0 69 21 4-9-0 423 912 5690 54 73 52 72 2 USC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 About the same over the same 80 year period. Our own Bill Nelsen may have in fact been the best of the bunch...in terms of being a winner. Beyond that there is Palmer....and the best after that are Pat Haden and Rodney Peete. (and hell....I basically forgot that Kessler came from USC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 As for Big 12 QBs, since 2000 we have this lot: Sage Rosenfelds Seneca Wallace Josh Freeman Josh Heupel Sam Bradford Landry Jones Zac Robinson Brandon Weeden Andy Dalton Chris Simms Vince Young Colt McCoy BJ Symons Patrick Mahomes Jordan Palmer Robert Griffin III Bryce Petty. Nothing Stellar: Dalton and Bradford the best of the lot. So....the two main Big 12 QBs under consideration are Mayfield and Rudolph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 Prospect per conference: Pac 12: Rosen, Darnold, Luke Falk ACC: Jackson, Benkert Big 12: Mayfield, Rudolph, Alex Shimonek SEC: Drew Lock, Jarrett Stidham C-USA: Riley Ferguson Alex McGough: Florida International Mike White: Western KY Big Ten: Thorson, Barrett. Quarterbacks are always overrated, over drafted. Why do I feel that this bunch is way overrated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 34 minutes ago, The Gipper said: As for Big 12 QBs, since 2000 Sam Bradford Nothing Stellar: But Bradford might be best FA of the lot? So....the two main Big 12 QBs under consideration are Mayfield and Rudolph Re-scrambled, ^^ Fits the criteria of Browns can’t have good things? So we get the odd man out..Cousins & Smith at age, just makes sense looking at teams like jags,broncos or Bills a QB away on better rosters, regardless of what Dorsey thinks? But who would of thought a 4th for Cameal Erving either. Will be interesting to see what Vikings do at QB leading up to free agent time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenew23 Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 Rosen and Darnold reminds me of Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers for some reason. Not that you can directly compare skill sets 1:1 but both are productive and have the skill sets without the winning, which makes them seem less desirable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 5 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said: Could he be "The One" to guide the Browns' sleigh? All we want fro Christmas is a winning record for a change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 2 hours ago, The Gipper said: Here is the list for USC: k Year Rnd Pick Pos DrAge Tm From To AP1 PB St CarAV G GS QBrec Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD College/Univ 1 2016 3 93 Cody Kessler QB 23 CLE 2016 2017 0 0 1 3 13 8 0-8-0 139 218 1506 6 3 12 17 0 USC College Stats 2 2013 4 98 Matt Barkley QB 22 PHI 2013 2016 0 0 0 2 11 6 1-5-0 159 266 1911 8 18 12 0 0 USC College Stats 3 2009 1 5 Mark Sanchez QB 22 NYJ 2009 2016 0 0 5 34 77 72 37-35-0 1295 2285 15219 86 86 169 449 13 USC College Stats 4 2008 5 137 John David Booty QB MIN 0 0 0 USC 5 2006 1 10 Matt Leinart QB 23 ARI 2006 2012 0 0 1 12 33 18 8-10-0 366 641 4065 15 21 47 89 2 USC College Stats 6 2005 7 230 Matt Cassel QB 23 NWE 2005 2017 0 1 5 46 107 81 36-45-0 1571 2666 17449 104 81 266 1012 5 USC College Stats 7 2003 1 1 Carson Palmer QB 23 CIN 2004 2017 0 3 11 106 182 181 92-88-1 3941 6307 46247 294 187 301 474 8 USC College Stats 8 1996 7 240 Kyle Wachholtz QB GNB 0 0 0 USC College Stats 9 1995 4 99 Rob Johnson QB 22 JAX 1995 2003 0 0 1 19 48 29 12-17-0 494 806 5795 30 23 140 877 4 USC College Stats 10 1991 1 24 Todd Marinovich QB 22 RAI 1991 1992 0 0 0 3 8 8 3-5-0 104 205 1345 8 9 12 44 0 USC College Stats 11 1991 10 260 Pat O'Hara QB TAM 0 0 0 USC College Stats 12 1989 6 141 Rodney Peete QB 23 DET 1989 2004 0 0 7 46 104 87 45-42-0 1344 2346 16338 76 92 270 1139 16 USC College Stats 13 1980 4 109 Paul McDonald QB 22 CLE 1980 1986 0 0 1 15 85 21 8-13-0 411 767 5269 24 37 37 6 1 USC College Stats 14 1978 5 131 Rob Hertel QB 23 CIN 1978 1978 0 0 0 0 3 0 1 4 9 0 0 1 0 0 USC College Stats 15 1977 6 140 Vince Evans QB 22 CHI 1977 1995 0 0 2 29 100 39 14-25-0 704 1390 9485 52 74 212 1129 14 USC College Stats 16 1975 7 176 Pat Haden QB 22 RAM 1976 1981 0 1 4 33 65 55 35-19-1 731 1363 9296 52 60 124 609 6 USC College Stats 17 1973 8 205 Mike Rae QB 22 OAK 1976 1979 0 0 0 9 28 8 4-4-0 124 249 1536 12 14 44 300 2 USC College Stats 18 1970 8 201 Mike Holmgren QB STL 0 0 0 USC 19 1965 20 270 Craig Fertig QB PIT 0 0 0 USC College Stats 20 1964 1 2 Pete Beathard QB 22 KAN 1964 1973 0 0 3 26 110 35 18-16-1 575 1282 8176 43 84 131 680 11 USC College Stats 21 1963 10 136 Bill Nelsen QB 22 PIT 1963 1972 0 1 5 53 90 74 40-31-3 963 1905 14165 98 101 84 89 2 USC College Stats 22 1962 34 268 Ben Charles QB BUF 0 0 0 USC 23 1953 2 24 Rudy Bukich QB 22 RAM 1953 1968 0 0 2 30 103 41 21-17-3 626 1190 8433 61 74 112 109 9 USC 24 1945 1 8 Jim Hardy QB 22 WAS 1946 1952 0 1 1 0 69 21 4-9-0 423 912 5690 54 73 52 72 2 USC Could you do one for Ohio State QBs? It's always been baffling to me that a school that produces so much NFL talent is a blackhole at QB for pretty much their entire run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 39 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: Could you do one for Ohio State QBs? It's always been baffling to me that a school that produces so much NFL talent is a blackhole at QB for pretty much their entire run. I could kind of say: Why bother? for just the reason you state. But, here goes: Rk Year Rnd Pick Pos DrAge Tm From To AP1 PB St CarAV G GS QBrec Cmp Att Yds TD Int Att Yds TD College/Univ 1 2016 4 139 Cardale Jones QB 23 BUF 2016 2016 0 0 0 0 1 0 6 11 96 0 1 1 -1 0 Ohio St. College Stats 2 2007 5 174 Troy Smith QB 23 BAL 2007 2010 0 0 0 6 20 8 4-4-0 121 234 1734 8 5 52 230 3 Ohio St. College Stats 3 2004 5 148 Craig Krenzel QB 23 CHI 2004 2004 0 0 0 1 6 5 3-2-0 59 127 718 3 6 18 41 0 Ohio St. College Stats 4 2002 6 205 Steve Bellisari QB STL 0 0 0 Ohio St. College Stats 5 1999 4 101 Joe Germaine QB 24 STL 1999 1999 0 0 0 1 3 0 9 16 136 1 2 3 0 0 Ohio St. College Stats 6 1996 3 85 Bobby Hoying QB 23 PHI 1996 2000 0 0 1 3 22 13 3-9-1 244 456 2544 11 15 42 156 0 Ohio St. College Stats 7 1992 8 211 Kent Graham QB 23 NYG 1992 2001 0 0 1 21 81 38 17-21-0 694 1339 7801 39 33 121 424 5 Ohio St. College Stats 8 1988 3 68 Tom Tupa QB 22 PHO 1988 2004 1 1 11 29 220 13 4-9-0 259 504 3430 12 25 53 187 1 Ohio St. College Stats 9 1987 12 322 Jim Karsatos QB MIA 0 0 0 Ohio St. College Stats 10 1982 1 4 Art Schlichter QB 22 BAL 1982 1985 0 0 0 4 13 6 0-6-0 91 202 1006 3 11 22 161 1 Ohio St. College Stats 11 1976 11 317 Cornelius Greene QB DAL 0 0 0 Ohio St. College Stats 12 1974 8 203 Gregg Hare QB BUF 0 0 0 Ohio St. College Stats 13 1971 15 376 Ron Maciejowski QB CHI 0 0 0 Ohio St. College Stats 14 1959 23 275 Frank Kremblas QB NYG 0 0 0 Ohio St. College Stats 15 1955 7 74 Dave Leggett QB 21 CRD 1955 1955 0 0 0 0 4 0 1 0 0 0 Ohio St. 16 1955 13 157 John Borton QB 22 CLE 1957 1957 0 0 0 0 5 3 6 22 0 1 Ohio St. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 But...there does seem to be a black hole in the above. Probably the best QB out of OSU isn't listed there. Since these are only draftees...I am wondering if Mike Tomcsak went undrafted. Here is the PFR link to him: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TomcMi00.htm He is definitely the most productive QB to come out of OSU......his CA is almost double that of Tupa....who had a lot of his "production" as a punter/specials teamer. Edit: I do see this from Wiki: Tomczak went undrafted out of college and signed as an original free agent with the Chicago Bears. He started no games his first year but did earn a Super Bowl ring, and saw playing time in Super Bowl XX on January 26, 1986, during the fourth quarter of the Bears' 46–10 win over the New England Patriots on the kickoff unit, where he was penalized for a facemask penalty.[3] He was a member of the "Shuffling Crew" in the Bears' video for The Super Bowl Shuffle, mimicking playing guitar. He played for the Bears until 1990 starting 31 games and throwing for 31 touchdowns and 47 interceptions. So...he was a UDFA. It figures that the best pro QB to ever come out of OSU would be undrafted......compared to these others that were drafted. Of course, note that Braxton Miller is not counted here....as he came in at like WR or something. (and whatever happened to him?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 Miller is still playing WR for Houston. Man, that OSU list was even worse than I thought it would be. Horrific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted December 29, 2017 Report Share Posted December 29, 2017 9 minutes ago, Dutch Oven said: Miller is still playing WR for Houston. Man, that OSU list was even worse than I thought it would be. Horrific. If the BUCKEYES had a few blue chip franchise quarterbacks back in the 1970-1980+ era (plus not JCOOP and EB) they would have had a few more national championship trophies in Columbus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted December 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2017 Rosen still seems like the best shot hopefully someone from this organization can get him sold on the program. If the plan comes together this could be the turning point. Allen seems a little bit too much like Blake Bortles. I do like Baker Mayfield's spunk. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Oven Posted December 30, 2017 Report Share Posted December 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Westside Steve said: I do like Baker Mayfield's spunk. WSS Too. Easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Low hanging fruit and a kilt are a bad combination. On 12/29/2017 at 1:29 PM, thenew23 said: Rosen and Darnold reminds me of Alex Smith and Aaron Rodgers for some reason. Not that you can directly compare skill sets 1:1 but both are productive and have the skill sets without the winning, which makes them seem less desirable... Switch the pairing and I can see it. On 12/29/2017 at 5:21 PM, Dutch Oven said: Miller is still playing WR for Houston. When he's not injured... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 1, 2018 Report Share Posted January 1, 2018 Also not captured by Gip's drafted buckeye list is our old friend TP... who coming out of HS was a very blue chipper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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