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Its as simple as 1,2,3


The Gipper
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No, this is not about the Jackson 5 song...But its OK if that becomes an earwig for you.   No, I was thinking, after the Steelers game, that the difference between the two teams is really as simple as 1, 2, 3:

1.  A franchise QB.    Steelers have one, Browns do not.   I see no reason to explain it beyond this.

2. An HC that instills discipline, effectiveness, concentration, focus and confidence in his team.  The Steelers have that in Tomlin.  And HJ is light years from possessing those traits.

3. Experience in a winning culture.   This may actually be part and parcel of #2...but it may go just a bit further than that to include the atmosphere that is instilled from the top down of an organization.

Here is my ultimate point.  If you took just Ben R. and Mike Tomlin and put them on the Browns....then they would regularly Rickroll the Steelers. They can even keep superior talent like  Bell and Brown.   Give us just BR (in his prime) and MT....and the Browns win.

Now, as far as the culture is concerned...I would hope the positive qualities would seep from the bottom up to the top:  in other words, a Tomlin/BR would bring with them the traits that would cause the likes of Jimmy Haslam to be converted into a winning type manager. 

Of course, it would still be a major concern if JH still owned the team.  He is a prove piss poor judge of character and quality in his primary hires.  On the Browns...his GMs and coaches so far have been disasters.   In his main business....if you buy the line associated with it....he left his company in the hands of corrupt and inept top managment....many of whom now face indictment or have already been convicted.   So, it seems to me that taking the decision making for important hires should be completely taken out of his hands.  He should perhaps be like old Art Rooney (as long as we are doing the Steeler analogies):  he should leave the day to day management to like his kids...and just sit back in Knoxville and collect his profits.

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4 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

So... 1, 2, 3, 4?

No....JH being around and heavily involved is part and parcel of the whole "winning culture" aspect of #3.  The 3 points clearly are not mutually exclusive:   An outstanding HC can bring with him a winning culture that  can have a "trickle up" effect to the FO.

So...you see it is kind of like  Karmic Flow.....a quality FO makeup can have an affect on the HC....I think that may be what has happened in Pittsburgh.    Or an HC can have positive affect on a FO....see e.g. perhaps, Belichick? 

When you have negative Karmic Flow all around.....you get 0-16.  Negativity from the FO....to HJ....down to the players. And the reverse can be true....a bad QB can have a negative affect on the HC....who in turn has a negative effect on the FO.....(such as accusations that the FO is not getting the HC any good players).

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1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

No, this is not about the Jackson 5 song...But its OK if that becomes an earwig for you.   No, I was thinking, after the Steelers game, that the difference between the two teams is really as simple as 1, 2, 3:

1.  A franchise QB.    Steelers have one, Browns do not.   I see no reason to explain it beyond this.

2. An HC that instills discipline, effectiveness, concentration, focus and confidence in his team.  The Steelers have that in Tomlin.  And HJ is light years from possessing those traits.

3. Experience in a winning culture.   This may actually be part and parcel of #2...but it may go just a bit further than that to include the atmosphere that is instilled from the top down of an organization.

Here is my ultimate point.  If you took just Ben R. and Mike Tomlin and put them on the Browns....then they would regularly Rickroll the Steelers. They can even keep superior talent like  Bell and Brown.   Give us just BR (in his prime) and MT....and the Browns win.

Now, as far as the culture is concerned...I would hope the positive qualities would seep from the bottom up to the top:  in other words, a Tomlin/BR would bring with them the traits that would cause the likes of Jimmy Haslam to be converted into a winning type manager. 

Of course, it would still be a major concern if JH still owned the team.  He is a prove piss poor judge of character and quality in his primary hires.  On the Browns...his GMs and coaches so far have been disasters.   In his main business....if you buy the line associated with it....he left his company in the hands of corrupt and inept top managment....many of whom now face indictment or have already been convicted.   So, it seems to me that taking the decision making for important hires should be completely taken out of his hands.  He should perhaps be like old Art Rooney (as long as we are doing the Steeler analogies):  he should leave the day to day management to like his kids...and just sit back in Knoxville and collect his profits.

Do you really think Tomlin is that good a coach? I don't really see him as an awe inspiring or disciplinary figure. I see him a a guy that inherited a team FULL of talent. A team that HAD a FQB , and many elite players. A coach that lucked into the right situation and wins games. Its why I say coaching is sometimes over rated. Some coaches just fall into the right situation. 

This will be considered heresy but I daresay if Hue Jackson coached the Steelers this past season I'd wager they have a record better than 0 - 16. 

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2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Of course, it would still be a major concern if JH still owned the team.

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

No....JH being around and heavily involved is part and parcel of the whole "winning culture" aspect of #3.

So these are not mutually exclusive? If they aren't, then why was the first comment made?

 

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3 hours ago, The Gipper said:

 

 

2 hours ago, jcam222 said:

Do you really think Tomlin is that good a coach? I don't really see him as an awe inspiring or disciplinary figure. I see him a a guy that inherited a team FULL of talent. A team that HAD a FQB , and many elite players. A coach that lucked into the right situation and wins games. Its why I say coaching is sometimes over rated. Some coaches just fall into the right situation. 

This will be considered heresy but I daresay if Hue Jackson coached the Steelers this past season I'd wager they have a record better than 0 - 16. 

 

Tomlin inherited a winning culture where players don't have to be motivated or inspired. Putting on that Black and Gold uniform does that to a player, not Tomlin.

The idea that Tomlin and Ben on the browns and they would rickroll the Steelers with regularity is silly.

 

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My 1, 2, 3 that gets us to 8-8 with the Hueguenot (I love history so there) + OC?

1. An accurate QB

2. Fitzpatrick running the D where it counts most-on the  field. He's not just a great player, he's the defensive QB for Saban. Smart guy that can diagnose plays so we aren't constantly yelling at our TVs every f'n Sunday to "watch for the screen, here comes the TE over the middle, QB draw, etc.".

3. A WR to match JGs skills

Adding more depth @ pass rusher and RB would insure it if all injured players are actually playing injury free for a change. Collins/Ogbah out really hurt us bad and Peppers will be a decent SS.

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17 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

So these are not mutually exclusive? If they aren't, then why was the first comment made?

 

Not sure why you cannot follow simple logic.  JH contributes to the negative culture surrounding this team. Unfortunately, we cannot get rid of him...ergo, hopefully, his negative impact can be restricted...by having a good QB/HC/GM. etc. 

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19 hours ago, jcam222 said:

Do you really think Tomlin is that good a coach? I don't really see him as an awe inspiring or disciplinary figure. I see him a a guy that inherited a team FULL of talent. A team that HAD a FQB , and many elite players. A coach that lucked into the right situation and wins games. Its why I say coaching is sometimes over rated. Some coaches just fall into the right situation. 

This will be considered heresy but I daresay if Hue Jackson coached the Steelers this past season I'd wager they have a record better than 0 - 16. 

I think Tomlin IS a fairly disciplined HC. He does not make stupid mistakes. He is effective...if not awe inspiring..

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20 hours ago, StinkHole said:

 

 

Tomlin inherited a winning culture where players don't have to be motivated or inspired. Putting on that Black and Gold uniform does that to a player, not Tomlin.

The idea that Tomlin and Ben on the browns and they would rickroll the Steelers with regularity is silly.

 

That is because you are ignorant and stupid.  Yes, Tomlin inherited a winning culture...but it had fuyuckall to do with the uniform...the team name, or  the city they are in or the fans of that team.   It had to do with the ownership and management that is in place.   If he had been a shitstorm of a coach it may have hurt that culture...but he is not a shitstorm.   It also helps to have an HOF quality QB.  If the Steelers had a Bubby Brister quality QB and a Hue Jackson like HC....you would have been the Browns or Bengals.

If you took BR and Tomlin off that team and put them on the Browns....then the ONLY thing we would have had to be concerned about is how badly Jimmy would have fuyucked things up.

But hell...if we had those two here....Randy Lerner may not have decided to sell the team.

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4 hours ago, TexasAg1969 said:

My 1, 2, 3 that gets us to 8-8 with the Hueguenot (I love history so there) + OC?

1. An accurate QB

2. Fitzpatrick running the D where it counts most-on the  field. He's not just a great player, he's the defensive QB for Saban. Smart guy that can diagnose plays so we aren't constantly yelling at our TVs every f'n Sunday to "watch for the screen, here comes the TE over the middle, QB draw, etc.".

3. A WR to match JGs skills

Adding more depth @ pass rusher and RB would insure it if all injured players are actually playing injury free for a change. Collins/Ogbah out really hurt us bad and Peppers will be a decent SS.

I think mine is more big picture.

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Easy as 1,2,3

1. Draft a QB #1 that is a sure Hall of Fame player

2. Hire a head coach that has a playbook that can't be defended by any system

3. Never lose another game and win the next 100 Super Bowls

 

This place never ceases to amaze me.  Internet guys solving the losing woes of an NFL franchise in 3 points that are vague and lack real life application.

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56 minutes ago, BaconHound said:

Easy as 1,2,3

1. Draft a QB #1 that is a sure Hall of Fame player

2. Hire a head coach that has a playbook that can't be defended by any system

3. Never lose another game and win the next 100 Super Bowls

 

This place never ceases to amaze me.  Internet guys solving the losing woes of an NFL franchise in 3 points that are vague and lack real life application.

Did ya get this Gip?  Simple as 1,2,3! LOL

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18 hours ago, StinkHole said:

Did ya get this Gip?  Simple as 1,2,3! LOL

Well....it IS Simple as 1,2,3.   But note, I used the word "simple"....not "easy".   Obviously it is not easy for the Browns to get a decent QB and a decent HC.  The roll call of shite we have had in those spots is legion. They keep making wrong choice after wrong choice. 

But it is simple.  If we had had, since 2004, your two guys  BR and Tomlin......yes, it would be the Browns who would have been big winners. 

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10 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

lol... and that is soooooo Gipper.

 

So, in your mutual opinions, getting a quality QB, a quality HC...and a winning atmosphere  lack real life applications? 

They are only lack real life applications because the Browns have been so inept at achieving them....but for most NFL teams, those are in fact the most important things that an NFL team strives for.

But...apparently not for you two See You In Tees? 

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18 hours ago, The Gipper said:

 

So, in your mutual opinions, getting a quality QB, a quality HC...and a winning atmosphere  lack real life applications? 

They are only lack real life applications because the Browns have been so inept at achieving them....but for most NFL teams, those are in fact the most important things that an NFL team strives for.

But...apparently not for you two See You In Tees? 

dude every team wants that but it's not that easy as going to the local NFL Walmart and picking them up.  If I could buy the winning powerball ticket I would but sadly you walk in purchase the numbers and hope it works out.  There is a science to the NFL but some of it is unknown.  Mike Holmgren has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know and he did very little to improve this franchise.

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On 1/3/2018 at 8:03 PM, StinkHole said:

Tomlin inherited a winning culture where players don't have to be motivated or inspired. Putting on that Black and Gold uniform does that to a player, not Tomlin.

The idea that Tomlin and Ben on the browns and they would rickroll the Steelers with regularity is silly.

 

As much as we dislike the stlrz who went from 1933-1970+ without ever being in a playoff game then:

Rooney ---> Rooney ---> Rooney and   Noll ---> Cowher  ---> Tomlin and yes even Bradshaw ---> (oops period) ---> Roethlisberger sure makes it easy.

Do remember that the stlrz D really started the ball rolling in the 1970s and continued with good drafts (hmmmm current BROWNS? ).

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