Guest Aloysius Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Here are some interesting articles/blogposts on what's happening in Iran: Iran's political coup Gary Sick Stealing the Iranian Election Juan Cole Realism and Iran George Packer This Is Not About Making Americans Feel Good About Themselves Spencer Ackerman The Return of Idealism Richard Just Silence Is Golden Daniel Larison What's next for U.S. foreign policy on Iran? Daniel DreznerOr you can get the comedic CliffsNotes by watching this: Obviously, this is something that could have a pretty dramatic effect on US foreign policy. It seems to me that Obama was right to resist the urge to directly support Mousavi and the protesters, as that would have fed into Ahmadinejad's attempt to paint his opponents as corrupt agents of American imperialism. But it's unclear to me what can or should be done now, except to hope that things will resolve in a manner that works in our favor and doesn't result in any more bloodshed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I have been reading about discontent in Iran for some time. President 'A''s saber rattling has only exacerbated an already suffering economy. For a country with such natural resources, the people are very poor. His platform of bolstering the economy has been anything but successful. The US has nothing to gain and a whole lot to lose by, even making statements about what is going on. This is an internal issue, albeit one that could have a very positive impact on the rest of the world. It is the type of government the Islam part of Islamic Republic that really runs the show. Ayotolla still runs the show and he runs the committee charged with 'reviewing' the election results. Let's hope the flames continue to roar in Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Promising he'd talk with Iran was good. Stating that no one has a right to tell them they can't have nukes was not. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osusev Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Actually Steve who does have the "right" to tell a organized nation they can or can not have access to technology? I dont want Iran to have Nukes but the "right" for one nation over another is a bit grey and honestly pretty hypocritical. Iran is an extremely complicated problem... WE backed a dictatorship and tried to topple their democratic movement..... which wel does not really help us in the moral category. I think we take a cold war stance on containment with open lines of communication like we did with the Soviet Union. Economics eventually is the most powerful variable on how things can be influenced internally.... well like the collapse of the Soviet Union. We dont need antogonistic speeches or statements, not even "judgmental statements on foggy issues of "soveriegn rights" or whatever. Economic influence by directed our energies and economy to sell non oil based transportation is really the key to dismantling their nuclear aspirations or even if they achieve it the cost to sustain storage and creation. We hurt their oil income we hurt them in the best way possible... THE POCKET BOOK and the ayatollahs better find other ways to pay their military to keep unhappy poor people in check who want some sort of free market and freedoms we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I was at my dentist this morning, who is an Iranian woman of the Bahá'í faith. She had to flee Iran through Turkey, via paid smugglers, after suffering religious persecution, the jailing of her father and relatives, beatings, the confiscation of their property and land. She was quick to point out how Mousavi hardly fits into this good guys vs. bad guys scenario that has unfolded here, and that he's a been a butcher in the past in his own right. Something you don't hear much in the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Something you don't hear much in the media. Actually anybody who pays even a little attention to it heard he was a scumbag too. But you're correct that you don't hear much about it. And Sev: As long as they have the power to enforce it, the civilized world has the right to tell the shitbag dictators of the third world what they can and can't have in the nuclear weapons arena. Which is why the US, even under Obama, should never willingly give up that power. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Which is why the US, even under Obama, should never willingly give up that power. Buford T Bush was so masterful in his diplomacy with N.Korea. Uh yeah, Dan. It looks a lot better now. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 She was quick to point out how Mousavi hardly fits into this good guys vs. bad guys scenario that has unfolded here, and that he's a been a butcher in the past in his own right. Something you don't hear much in the media. You are right about that, Heck. On the other hand I heard - either on NPR or Jim Leher's show - a senior fellow from a Middle East 'think tank' - himself an Arab - and a former government official both noted that this uprising has distinct characteristics than other protests. First, they said there are fissures among the 'rulers', something that has not been the case before. They always had a united front. Second, this appears to be a pent up reaction to the 'Islamic Republic' model where the power still resides at the Ayatolla level. Third, perhaps like folks here who voted for 'anybody but Bush' are reacting to their economic peril under President A and believe his incessant saber rattling has played a big part in their financial malaise. Perhaps the mainstream media is missing the fundamental point - this is a complex issue among a variety of conflicting and mobilizing issues - and a case where the 'least worse' becomes the man wearing the white turban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 I was at my dentist this morning, who is an Iranian woman of the Bahá'í faith. She had to flee Iran through Turkey, via paid smugglers, after suffering religious persecution, the jailing of her father and relatives, beatings, the confiscation of their property and land. She was quick to point out how Mousavi hardly fits into this good guys vs. bad guys scenario that has unfolded here, and that he's a been a butcher in the past in his own right. Something you don't hear much in the media. That is crazy, women can't be doctors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 That is crazy, women can't be doctors. My Dr. friends tell me that Dentists couldn't get into Medical School. On another point, Heck has major cajones going to a 'driller' that has such bad experiences in her past. For his sake, I hope she doesn't have any flashbacks while he is in the chair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 Which is why the US, even under Obama, should never willingly give up that power. Buford T Bush was so masterful in his diplomacy with N.Korea. ************************************************ You mean Jimmy "peanuthead" Carter, who even admitted he was made a fool of by N. Korea. Billy Carter wouldn't have been nearly so naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 WE backed a dictatorship and tried to topple their democratic movement..... which wel does not really help us in the moral category. One thing that doesn't get mentioned: the clerics also wanted Mosaddeq overthrown. Not that it affects the morality of our actions; it just shows the hypocrisy of Ahmadinejad & co. throwing it back at us. She was quick to point out how Mousavi hardly fits into this good guys vs. bad guys scenario that has unfolded here, and that he's a been a butcher in the past in his own right. Something you don't hear much in the media. Good point. Besides the mostly positive press Mousavi has been getting, there seems to be a curious nostalgia about President Khatami's tenure in office. Despite the few steps he made in the right direction, he still is this guy. Today, President Obama said that the substantive policy differences between Ahmadinejad and Mousavi may not be all that significant. I guess that's what happens when the only way you can get on the ballot is if the mullahs declare you kosher. The more interesting reports are the ones about Rafsanjani possibly attempting to unseat Khamenei as Supreme Leader, but I have no idea whether those are accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted June 17, 2009 Report Share Posted June 17, 2009 She was quick to point out how Mousavi hardly fits into this good guys vs. bad guys scenario that has unfolded here, and that he's a been a butcher in the past in his own right. Something you don't hear much in the media. In the US political arena, we call those "the Primaries." Over there, you don't get on the ballot playing grab-ass with everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I know this won't be popular, but i know I am right....the sooner they are extinct, the better off we will be...trust me.....they want to be sure we are extinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 This diavlog between Reza Aslan and Eli Lake is worth listening to. The entire thing's about an hour long, but it's broken up into mini-subjects over at the bloggingheads site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownIndian Posted June 18, 2009 Report Share Posted June 18, 2009 I know this won't be popular, but i know I am right....the sooner they are extinct, the better off we will be...trust me.....they want to be sure we are extinct. good lord no ! There are many among the cities ... and the upcoming youth population that crave our way of life .. our independence ! But that country has many who oppress the freedom and are still living in denial with regards to freedom and womens rights. We need to make sure that the extremists do not get all too dominating .... there are a lot of people waiting to be freed. IMHO it was Iran we should have attacked and not Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Another good read: Iran's Children of Tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 those muslims who want us dead are analogous to our old, racist, intolerant population here thats running our country into the ground. soon they'll die, we'll inherit the mess, and start acting civilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 W.H. pulls Iran overture BY CAROL E. LEE The White House has rescinded its invitation for Iranian diplomats to attend its July 4 festivities, White House Press Secretary ...... Robert Gibbs told reporters Wednesday. None of them RSVP’d, Gibbs said. But, he added: "I don’t think it’s surprising that nobody’s signed up to come given the events of the past days…Those invitations will no longer be extended." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 Good going Obama! That will show them how tough we are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aloysius Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I didn't mean to present it as some grand gesture...more as a marker for how significantly the diplomatic terrain has shifted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 WE backed a dictatorship and tried to topple their democratic movement..... which wel does not really help us in the moral category. In case you thought so I have no problem with that. When faced with a choice of two scumbags pick the one that you can better get along with. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 And does anyone really believe that we have not been working on changing how the Iranian people think for years now? yes, we have (cia) been very active in Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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