Freddie Close To Being Fired ?

[darren15]

According to John Clayton

 

Andrew Fillipponi

 

@ThePoniExpress

· Oct 16

.@JohnClaytonNFL reporting on Browns dyfunction: "I was there on Sunday. There was a lot of talk that Freddie Kitchens was almost fired after that Seattle loss."

[MLD Woody]

Maybe making your RB Coach the HC wasn't the best idea

[gumby73]

saw it & not buying any of it.. John Clayton is the biggest Hawks fan known to mankind..I believe he lives there & host a KIRO radio show from Seattle..Still a heavy metal rocker but Clayton would stir the pot for solely ESPN ranking, just like the others that still rein at that network.."There was a lot of Talk" yep..got it..the guy in section 333 can source that.. 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

I call horseshit.

[MDDawg]

56 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

saw it & not buying any of it.. John Clayton is the biggest Hawks fan known to mankind..I believe he lives there & host a KIRO radio show from Seattle..Still a heavy metal rocker but Clayton would stir the pot for solely ESPN ranking, just like the others that still rein at that network.."There was a lot of Talk" yep..got it..the guy in section 333 can source that.. 

Don't believe that rumor but if Freddie coaches a losing season or misses the playoffs, I think they'll cut their losses. Freddie's aggressive playcalling is advertising for his next job if things don't work out here.

[hx214]

Meh.

That’s bait.

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, gumby73 said:

saw it & not buying any of it.. John Clayton is the biggest Hawks fan known to mankind..I believe he lives there & host a KIRO radio show from Seattle..Still a heavy metal rocker but Clayton would stir the pot for solely ESPN ranking, just like the others that still rein at that network.."There was a lot of Talk" yep..got it..the guy in section 333 can source that.. 

Unless Dorsey is outright lying or doing some GM speak during his press conference- I'd call Clayton's stuff BS. John runs a pretty tight lipped ship. I don't recall much chatter before the fact  "Browns trading for OBJ imminent".  Or, Corbett being traded to the Rams....   

[gumby73]

16 minutes ago, MDDawg said:

 if Freddie coaches a losing season or misses the playoffs, I think they'll cut their losses. Freddie's aggressive playcalling is advertising for his next job if things don't work out here.

6 games in & i don't throw axes at coaches like most.. 10 games left & how the players react to Kitchens keeping his job & staff? it's still on the players preforming better on the field on execution/poor technique & poor disapline.. <<can't disagree with the boss on any of these 3 either..it's too soon folks..

[jiggins7919]

It's bait, somewhat, but unfortunately I think it was closer to truth than we may realize. I really think it almost happened after the Rams game, as it really appeared that game that he was completely out of his depth. I believe after that game Freddie mentioned something about a "learning curve" (or one of these games) and that kind of rubbed people the wrong way because working some of the details out is what preseason is for, and you don't need a learning curve to know not to run a 4th and 9 draw or pass 4 straight times when Chubb was obviously the best option. 

We've discussed the Seattle time management debacle enough, but that game almost doomed him right there. You don't get to make those kind of mistakes, you just don't. I firmly believe the only reason he wasn't fired after the bye was because it wouldn't really help anything. The Browns somehow struck gold last year by winning after a mid year coaching change, but it doesn't normally work that way. 

The "double down on atrocious strategy" comments, otherwise known as the "Hue Jackson Press Conference Guide to Failure" was not a good look for Freddie. He should have admitted he effed up, but he didn't. I certainly don't want a freaking coaching change, but I thought his arrogant ass was toast this week...if only a little. 

[hoorta]

8 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

6 games in & i don't throw axes at coaches like most.. 10 games left & how the players react to Kitchens keeping his job & staff? it's still on the players preforming better on the field on execution/poor technique & poor disapline.. <<can't disagree with the boss on any of these 3 either..it's too soon folks..

Way too soon- it would be the fastest HC firing in the history of the NFL.   

2 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

The "double down on atrocious strategy" comments, otherwise known as the "Hue Jackson Press Conference Guide to Failure" was not a good look for Freddie. He should have admitted he effed up, but he didn't. I certainly don't want a freaking coaching change, but I thought his arrogant ass was toast this week...if only a little. 

Let's hope in private Dorsey roasted his ass to well done.  

[Orion]

We fired 2 head coaches in 1 year.

After that perspective HC's ran for the woods when they heard Haslam wanted to talk to them.

We were just starting to climb out from under that stigma......and now some of us want to fire a new HC after 6 games?!?

It's Freddy's fault that Callaway turns a TD reception standing at the goal line into an int out to the 50?

It's Freddy's fault that Hilliard lets a ball go through his hands and into the hands of a defender to end the game?  Of course, people blame him for throwing it to Hilliard at all.  And that it should ALWAYS be thrown to OBJ or Landry....or else run Chubb.

- Here's what I haven't at all liked from Freddie:  The draw play on 4th & 9.  Of course, if it would've gotten 10 yards he'd have been hailed as a genius.  I didn't like it.

- Most didn't like his plan to score a TD, use his TO's to force Seattle to punt, and then come down and score again, all within 1:45 of the half.  Me, I only felt that it was a different way of thinking.  It was a plan.  I probably would've gone the old fashioned way and played 'not to lose'.....but for me, it's hard to criticize a guy who Plays To Win The Game.....so it didn't bother me much.  (you can't play the game being afraid that your QB is gonna throw an INT, or that your RB is gonna fumble)

Don't fire Freddie!    Don't trade a #1 pick for a 31 yr old LT who's been injured frequently.   Draft one.

[jiggins7919]

https://amp-dailycaller-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2019/10/18/cleveland-browns-freddie-kitchens-john-clayton-fired-seahawks?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15714118166630&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s

I obviously didn't have any insider information, but I was trying to tell people that Kitchens' mistakes were almost unforgivable. Making matters worse, the Seahawks DB was saying how he knew the plays a d was calling them out. Now, I don't put too much credence into that because we still moved the ball and scored enough points to win, but we played Hall of Fame Russ and that's that. 

I don't want him fired, but whatever magic they discovered last year has completely vanished, and now we're tasked with finding it again versus the Patriots. We CAN beat them btw, and if we FINALLY have a game where everything clicks, we'll win. Brady has thrown some dangerous passes this year, we just need one to show up in our game that we return for a TD. That's the key for us next game...scoring on defense. 

[hoorta]

5 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

https://amp-dailycaller-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2019/10/18/cleveland-browns-freddie-kitchens-john-clayton-fired-seahawks?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15714118166630&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s

I obviously didn't have any insider information, but I was trying to tell people that Kitchens' mistakes were almost unforgivable. Making matters worse, the Seahawks DB was saying how he knew the plays a d was calling them out. Now, I don't put too much credence into that because we still moved the ball and scored enough points to win, but we played Hall of Fame Russ and that's that. 

I don't want him fired, but whatever magic they discovered last year has completely vanished, and now we're tasked with finding it again versus the Patriots. We CAN beat them btw, and if we FINALLY have a game where everything clicks, we'll win. Brady has thrown some dangerous passes this year, we just need one to show up in our game that we return for a TD. That's the key for us next game...scoring on defense. 

Guy is just regurgitating Clayton's opinion jiggins, and that has been  confirmed by no one else who's  1\2 credible. Plus the  writer obviously hates the Browns, might  even be  our Baltimore  troll.

[medicineman]

I doubt no HC would be canned after 6 games. They only gave Chud 1 full season but at least he got the full season. I said from the get go we should of kept Greg but what I want or what any of you want does not matter. They thought this was the best pick for the team. Maybe Baker was better last season or maybe it was a combination of things, a few different players maybe make the difference IDK. 

[hoorta]

3 minutes ago, medicineman said:

I doubt no HC would be canned after 6 games. They only gave Chud 1 full season but at least he got the full season. I said from the get go we should of kept Greg but what I want or what any of you want does not matter. They thought this was the best pick for the team. Maybe Baker was better last season or maybe it was a combination of things, a few different players maybe make the difference IDK. 

It's  possible  Baker is  over  thinking things. Or Freddie is running the  same plays he did  last year, and opposing defenses now have formational  clues. Griffin  claimed he  knew  what Landry was going to do on the int.

[nickers]

3 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

https://amp-dailycaller-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2019/10/18/cleveland-browns-freddie-kitchens-john-clayton-fired-seahawks?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15714118166630&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s

I obviously didn't have any insider information, but I was trying to tell people that Kitchens' mistakes were almost unforgivable. Making matters worse, the Seahawks DB was saying how he knew the plays a d was calling them out. Now, I don't put too much credence into that because we still moved the ball and scored enough points to win, but we played Hall of Fame Russ and that's that. 

I don't want him fired, but whatever magic they discovered last year has completely vanished, and now we're tasked with finding it again versus the Patriots. We CAN beat them btw, and if we FINALLY have a game where everything clicks, we'll win. Brady has thrown some dangerous passes this year, we just need one to show up in our game that we return for a TD. That's the key for us next game...scoring on defense. 

All that magic left soon as Gregg Williams did.. Think about that for awhile...

[bjh2130]

2 hours ago, hoorta said:

It's  possible  Baker is  over  thinking things. Or Freddie is running the  same plays he did  last year, and opposing defenses now have formational  clues. Griffin  claimed he  knew  what Landry was going to do on the int.

He ran a slant in the red zone 90 percent of routes are slants digs (both inside breaking) and a fade inside the redzone. So he could make a pretty educated guess but Griffin was still beat to the inside on the slant. Or did he know Baker was gonna throw it high and behind him also? Not saying you're full of shit larry just that griffin isn't some savant for guessing it was going to be a slant (that he was still beat on lol).

 

So clayton knew before the game (pregame) happened there was chaos dysfunction and freddie was almost fired after the game? 

"In fact, there were some rumors when I was in the Browns pregame, that he could've gotten fired after this game, b/c they're going to be sitting 2-5"

that's some wizardry shit right there.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

15 hours ago, Orion said:

Me, I only felt that it was a different way of thinking.  It was a plan.  I probably would've gone the old fashioned way and played 'not to lose'.....but for me, it's hard to criticize a guy who Plays To Win The Game.....so it didn't bother me much.  (you can't play the game being afraid that your QB is gonna throw an INT, ..

Don't fire Freddie!    Don't trade a #1 pick for a 31 yr old LT who's been injured frequently.   Draft one.

Making Seattle burn their last timeout and AT LEAST getting 3 points to go up 2 scores is playing to win the game, my friend.

Trying to force scoring and forcibly taking the ball and scoring again so your opponent can’t catch you is playing to lose, IMO.  

I wouldn’t be surprised if this rumor is partially true. But it would’ve been a bad reaction to fire coach for his first year inexperience.

[jiggins7919]

3 hours ago, hoorta said:

Guy is just regurgitating Clayton's opinion jiggins, and that has been  confirmed by no one else who's  1\2 credible. Plus the  writer obviously hates the Browns, might  even be  our Baltimore  troll.

He could be!  LOL

[nickers]

Firing Freddie at this point wouldn't help much... I think its just one of those systemic things that has to work itself out...

[hoorta]

1 hour ago, bjh2130 said:

1) He ran a slant in the red zone 90 percent of routes are slants digs (both inside breaking) and a fade inside the redzone. So he could make a pretty educated guess but Griffin was still beat to the inside on the slant. Or did he know Baker was gonna throw it high and behind him also? Not saying you're full of shit larry just that griffin isn't some savant for guessing it was going to be a slant (that he was still beat on lol).

 

2) So clayton knew before the game (pregame) happened there was chaos dysfunction and freddie was almost fired after the game? 

"In fact, there were some rumors when I was in the Browns pregame, that he could've gotten fired after this game, b/c they're going to be sitting 2-5"

that's some wizardry shit right there.

1) all dat true.    

2) Clayton got that tip from Incarcerated Bob.   

[Orion]

3 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

Trying to force scoring and forcibly taking the ball and scoring again so your opponent can’t catch you is playing to lose, IMO.

Trying to force scoring:    I don't think 'force' is the right word.  I think he wanted to score a TD.  They were coming down the field with an uptempo game, keeping Seattle's D on it's heels.  He obviously did not want to break that roll they were on and figured it gave them the best chance of scoring a TD.  Yes.  He could've stopped everything, including the momentum, for the sake of a clock on a wall.

and forcibly taking the ball:   So we shouldn't try and do that?

and scoring again so your opponent can’t catch you is playing to lose:   hmmm.......

The alternative was to play for a FG.  It was 2nd and 8.  We could've let the clock run another 10-12 seconds and ran the ball.  Seattle will use it's last TO.  Now it's 3rd and what?  Six, FIve?  We throw a pass  (say we luck out and it's not intercepted, just incomplete).  We kick the FG.  Seattle's got maybe 20 seconds less than what we actually left them...but they don't have their final TO.  They STILL get down there for a FG at least.

I would've called TO and stopped the momentum, used up their final TO, and take a shot at the end zone (which could have been picked off...just like what DID happen) before kicking the FG.  But if I was coaching the Patriots I might have done it.

[browns52]

On 10/17/2019 at 7:04 PM, MDDawg said:

Don't believe that rumor but if Freddie coaches a losing season or misses the playoffs, I think they'll cut their losses. Freddie's aggressive playcalling is advertising for his next job if things don't work out here.

you bet....can't believe this mgmt team screwed everything up yet again by hiring him....loved him as the oc...he's not a hc, at least to this point....2 and 5 is on the way, then you might hear more about him getting fired....pats on the road...you can count on a 2-5 flight home.....

[browns52]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

1) all dat true.    

2) Clayton got that tip from Incarcerated Bob.   

if it was adam shefter i would believe it to be true...he's pretty acurate in his reporting...clayton...ehhhhh, i don't know

[hoorta]

4 hours ago, Orion said:

Trying to force scoring:    I don't think 'force' is the right word.  I think he wanted to score a TD.  They were coming down the field with an uptempo game, keeping Seattle's D on it's heels.  He obviously did not want to break that roll they were on and figured it gave them the best chance of scoring a TD.  Yes.  He could've stopped everything, including the momentum, for the sake of a clock on a wall.

and forcibly taking the ball:   So we shouldn't try and do that?

and scoring again so your opponent can’t catch you is playing to lose:   hmmm.......

The alternative was to play for a FG.  It was 2nd and 8.  We could've let the clock run another 10-12 seconds and ran the ball.  Seattle will use it's last TO.  Now it's 3rd and what?  Six, FIve?  We throw a pass  (say we luck out and it's not intercepted, just incomplete).  We kick the FG.  Seattle's got maybe 20 seconds less than what we actually left them...but they don't have their final TO.  They STILL get down there for a FG at least.

I would've called TO and stopped the momentum, used up their final TO, and take a shot at the end zone (which could have been picked off...just like what DID happen) before kicking the FG.  But if I was coaching the Patriots I might have done it.

Nope, we run the ball again. Seattle is out of TOs and besides the play we bleed 45 seconds off the clock before we kick a FG, or Chubb scores a TD. . 

[Orion]

13 minutes ago, hoorta said:

Nope, we run the ball again

Yes, you could do that.  In my book I call that playing for the 3 points and going to the half.  2nd and 8 from the 10.  Two runs.  If they can spring him and he scores then it's gravy.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

54 minutes ago, Orion said:

Yes, you could do that.  In my book I call that playing for the 3 points and going to the half.  2nd and 8 from the 10.  Two runs.  If they can spring him and he scores then it's gravy.

The red zone offense has been bad. Nick Chubb has been GOOD. With good blocking maybe he would’ve scored.

On third down, an easy completion type of throw, maybe a drag route to Callaway would be a logical type of pass play with a Chubb as an outlet. With OBJ working the deeper route in case the short is covered up.. Landry just get open, have an option route to find the soft spot..

23-12, opposed to almost case 20-18

What baffles me was the desire to score quickly, thinking that the defense is destined to get you the ball back against an elite QB in 2 minute offense. Without the 2 starting corners..

[Orion]

29 minutes ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

What baffles me was the desire to score quickly, thinking that the defense is destined to get you the ball back 

Well, there is that.  Although the D hadn't been getting gaffed up to that point, I certainly wasn't all that confident that they could just 3 & out them.  And certainly after they took it down the field for a TD and got the 2 point conversion, I wasn't confident in our D at all anymore.

Freddie attacked the end of the half aggressively...but his team let him down...on both sides of the ball.  Apparently, with Freddie's team, you have to play 'not to lose'.  It's sad when you have to play scared.....scared that your guys are about to fuck up.

[jiggins7919]

8 hours ago, Orion said:

Well, there is that.  Although the D hadn't been getting gaffed up to that point, I certainly wasn't all that confident that they could just 3 & out them.  And certainly after they took it down the field for a TD and got the 2 point conversion, I wasn't confident in our D at all anymore.

Freddie attacked the end of the half aggressively...but his team let him down...on both sides of the ball.  Apparently, with Freddie's team, you have to play 'not to lose'.  It's sad when you have to play scared.....scared that your guys are about to fuck up.

Those are actually fair points. I guess the counter-argument is that you shouldn't put your team in that situation, but you're absolutely right. The coach SHOULDN'T have to worry about you effing up, he should be expecting you to make the plays. If you're Freddie, you have to be thinking, "Are you effing serious? You assholes can't complete ONE slant in the endzone?" 

Let's look at that Landry interception. At first I thought it was a terrible decision to make the throw, but upon review, Landry was freaking open, if only a little bit. As I just referenced in my previous post, our stars simply don't make plays when we need them. Baker's throw was absolutely TERRIBLE. It's not a stretch to say that I could have made a better toss there. Why? Because even I know that ball has to be inside, LOW, and either caught by my guy or the dirt. Literally, Baker threw the ball to the ONE place he couldn't...it's...unbelievable really. (what's also unbelievable is that Baker threw a low, inside ball to Calloway who somehow popped it up to a defender. I mean, wtf. Even when we MAKE the play, we can't MAKE the play?!) 

[MDDawg]

10 hours ago, CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS said:

What baffles me was the desire to score quickly, thinking that the defense is destined to get you the ball back against an elite QB in 2 minute offense. Without the 2 starting corners..

This is why I call BS on Freddie's explanation of his decision. We were playing against the top rated QB in the league who at the minimum would've played keepaway.