will Hunt make a difference?

[bbedward]

Props to Freddie for actually using Hunt in the game plan, I didn't really have high hopes for him.

Still think we ran the ball way too little, but it was good to see Freddie got him involved.

[jiggins7919]

9 minutes ago, bbedward said:

Props to Freddie for actually using Hunt in the game plan, I didn't really have high hopes for him.

Still think we ran the ball way too little, but it was good to see Freddie got him involved.

That's a good point Bbedward. Many of us, including myself, have been hard on Freddie and his coaching prowess. But he nailed the usage of Hunt, and it definitely makes me hopeful for he can bring. 

[MDDawg]

1 hour ago, bbedward said:

Props to Freddie for actually using Hunt in the game plan, I didn't really have high hopes for him.

Still think we ran the ball way too little, but it was good to see Freddie got him involved.

Agree, we need this much talent to overcome Freddie's poor coaching. Why toss the ball to someone who hasn't played football in almost a year? We were fortunately officiated by decent refs this week , otherwise the season would've been over.

[bjh2130]

1 hour ago, MDDawg said:

Agree, we need this much talent to overcome Freddie's poor coaching. Why toss the ball to someone who hasn't played football in almost a year? We were fortunately officiated by decent refs this week , otherwise the season would've been over.

A decent ref doesn't originally call that a touchdown. That play has been a staple in college for 10 years and become prevalent in the NFL in the last 3. The replay was the thing that saved us. As soon as it happened I was telling anyone who would listen that is a pass.  They intentionally do that in case of a mishandle so if it hits the turf it's a incomplete pass instead of a fumble.  I'm not trying to be combative it's just an indictment of the NFL and their refs that they don't know the rules.

[TexasAg1969]

11 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

A decent ref doesn't originally call that a touchdown. That play has been a staple in college for 10 years and become prevalent in the NFL in the last 3. The replay was the thing that saved us. As soon as it happened I was telling anyone who would listen that is a pass.  They intentionally do that in case of a mishandle so if it hits the turf it's a incomplete pass instead of a fumble.  I'm not trying to be combative it's just an indictment of the NFL and their refs that they don't know the rules.

At the same time that ball barely traveled an inch or so forward so if he had actually pulled it slightly backwards it would have been a fumble. I think it is always best to let it go until it all plays out and let replay decide whether it was a pass or a fumble. We've been screwed by too quick a whistle in the past. I'd rather see it let go and see what really happened in slow motion replay.

[bjh2130]

14 minutes ago, TexasAg1969 said:

At the same time that ball barely traveled an inch or so forward so if he had actually pulled it slightly backwards it would have been a fumble. I think it is always best to let it go until it all plays out and let replay decide whether it was a pass or a fumble. We've been screwed by too quick a whistle in the past. I'd rather see it let go and see what really happened in slow motion replay.

Every single one of those barely go forward and I've rarely ever seen one not blown dead (maybe twice including yesterday). Hunt was running in front him.  He was popping it up to him. Even if it goes straight up and down its an incomplete pass. His arms are going up and forward pretty hard to throw it backwards in that case.

[The Gipper]

5 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said:

I see your point Tex but I have to question the ability of our O line's blocking down at the goal line. Even Hunt can't make a hole if it is not there.

I heard one analysis say that Yes....absolutely, out OL is not big enough, strong enough, talented enough to go mano a mano against the defensive lines in this league and force the ball into the end zone. In essence they said that this team needs an infusion of talent on the OL....in at least 2 if not 3 positions. They also said this team desperately needs a fullback.

They said that the only possible remedy for this group is to actually do the opposite of what they are doing:     Instead of bunching up in goal line situations....where they inevitably get beat, that they need to spread it out.....make the DL cover the whole wife field

And apparently, FYI, that is just what they did on the last TD....they spread it out, and that allowed Higgins to get wide open for the TD. 

[bjh2130]

Just now, The Gipper said:

I heard one analysis say that Yes....absolutely, out OL is not big enough, strong enough, talented enough to go mano a mano against the defensive lines in this league and force the ball into the end zone. In essence they said that this team needs an infusion of talent on the OL....in at least 2 if not 3 positions. They also said this team desperately needs a fullback.

They said that the only possible remedy for this group is to actually do the opposite of what they are doing:     Instead of bunching up in goal line situations....where they inevitably get beat, that they need to spread it out.....make the DL cover the whole wife field

And apparently, FYI, that is just what they did on the last TD....they spread it out, and that allowed Higgins to get wide open for the TD. 

So people are suggesting that they do what they were doing early on in the year when Freddie got roasted for it? 

That's why I'm not banging the Freddie sucks at playcalling drum that most are.  Has he had a few like 4th and 9 draw play atrocious? Sure. However it's not the playcall its the execution.  It's Baker not seeing an open receiver or getting rid of the ball on a 3 step drop.  It is a receiver curling his route off too loose. It's an offensive lineman losing his one on one battle. Most of those are coachable things and need to be fixed. Some fixed quickly by attention to detail others take longer and some take new players.

[The Gipper]

10 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

So people are suggesting that they do what they were doing early on in the year when Freddie got roasted for it? 

I don't know if that is what Freddie did early on.  I do know that this OL cannot get a push on the line of scrimmage at the goal line.  That seems clear.   I also know that they had success on the last TD by spreading it out.   I guess the deal is this:   It seems like they have a 0-10% chance of bunching it up and running the ball into the endzone.....because they just can't block well enough man on man to be successful at that.  So, by spreading it out....the vastly increase that percent at a chance at success.  So, what do you do?  Go with the better odds.  (maybe mjp can give you those odds)

That's why I'm not banging the Freddie sucks at playcalling drum that most are.  Has he had a few like 4th and 9 draw play atrocious? Sure. However it's not the playcall its the execution.  It's Baker not seeing an open receiver or getting rid of the ball on a 3 step drop.  It is a receiver curling his route off too loose. It's an offensive lineman losing his one on one battle. Most of those are coachable things and need to be fixed. Some fixed quickly by attention to detail others take longer and some take new players.

I even think much of Baker's problems....his jitteryness if you will, is based on his distrust of his OL.   He would never admit that, putting the blame on himself...but I still think that is a big part of it. 

 

[OldBrownsFan]

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

I heard one analysis say that Yes....absolutely, out OL is not big enough, strong enough, talented enough to go mano a mano against the defensive lines in this league and force the ball into the end zone. In essence they said that this team needs an infusion of talent on the OL....in at least 2 if not 3 positions. They also said this team desperately needs a fullback.

They said that the only possible remedy for this group is to actually do the opposite of what they are doing:     Instead of bunching up in goal line situations....where they inevitably get beat, that they need to spread it out.....make the DL cover the whole wife field

And apparently, FYI, that is just what they did on the last TD....they spread it out, and that allowed Higgins to get wide open for the TD. 

I also have doubts about our O line's ability to block down at the goal line. If that is our weakness (which I think it is) than I like the idea of spreading it out which plays to our strength. We need to upgrade the line though. We have got to have lineman capable of blocking at the goal line. I am still stunned we had first and goal at the one and came away empty after 8 attempts.

[The Gipper]

7 minutes ago, OldBrownsFan said:

I also have doubts about our O line's ability to block down at the goal line. If that is our weakness (which I think it is) than I like the idea of spreading it out which plays to our strength. We need to upgrade the line though. We have got to have lineman capable of blocking at the goal line. I am still stunned we had first and goal at the one and came away empty after 8 attempts.

Well....I don't think that is going to happen until we get to next year and free agency and the draft.  I guess we gotta suck it up with what we got.

[OldBrownsFan]

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Well....I don't think that is going to happen until we get to next year and free agency and the draft.  I guess we gotta suck it up with what we got.

If we can't punch the ball in on short yardage situations at the goal line I like the idea of spreading out the offense even on short yardage situations at the goal line. I think it is our only option at this time.

[MDDawg]

29 minutes ago, bjh2130 said:

So people are suggesting that they do what they were doing early on in the year when Freddie got roasted for it? 

That's why I'm not banging the Freddie sucks at playcalling drum that most are.  Has he had a few like 4th and 9 draw play atrocious? Sure. However it's not the playcall its the execution.  It's Baker not seeing an open receiver or getting rid of the ball on a 3 step drop.  It is a receiver curling his route off too loose. It's an offensive lineman losing his one on one battle. Most of those are coachable things and need to be fixed. Some fixed quickly by attention to detail others take longer and some take new players.

Execution is poor because of lack of attention to detail which is due to poor coaching. This was evident yesterday, listen to Joe Thomas on the ThomaHawk show break it down this week.

[The Gipper]

26 minutes ago, MDDawg said:

Execution is poor because of lack of attention to detail which is due to poor coaching. This was evident yesterday, listen to Joe Thomas on the ThomaHawk show break it down this week.

Well, that is certainly a major part of it, if not the whole kit and caboodle.

[Icecube]

6 hours ago, jiggins7919 said:

That's a good point Bbedward. Many of us, including myself, have been hard on Freddie and his coaching prowess. But he nailed the usage of Hunt, and it definitely makes me hopeful for he can bring. 

Hunt was less rusty than I thought he would be. He showed some burst. But how many touches can you give him with the way Chubb is laying it down?

[bjh2130]

1 minute ago, Icecube said:

Hunt was less rusty than I thought he would be. He showed some burst. But how many touches can you give him with the way Chubb is laying it down?

I think 20 touches to chubb and 12-15 to hunt is ideal (both playing well)  but obviously you could ride the hot hand.  Yesterday they were both playing well hunt had 11 touches and chubb right around 20.

[TexasAg1969]

Nice post game interview with Cleveland native Kareem Hunt. He takes as much pride in correct blocking as he does in receiving or running. 👍

 

[bjh2130]

I really hope he gives us a hometown discount being from the area and being the team that gave him a second chance.  I don't know how much teams will be willing to pay him but I tend to believe it will be more than we want to offer a running back that isn't our "lead" back. Hopefully teams still have concerns and we can sign him to a similar contract that Duke Johnson signed (which was a really good contract for Duke).

[MDDawg]

1 hour ago, bjh2130 said:

I really hope he gives us a hometown discount being from the area and being the team that gave him a second chance.  I don't know how much teams will be willing to pay him but I tend to believe it will be more than we want to offer a running back that isn't our "lead" back. Hopefully teams still have concerns and we can sign him to a similar contract that Duke Johnson signed (which was a really good contract for Duke).

Doubtful, he led the NFL in rushing yards one season. As long as he remains well behaved, he'll command top dollar after his rookie contract expires.