Guest mz. Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Well done, Army! An Army report seems to confirm a Salon investigation linking battle stress to murder. But the Army begs to differ. By Michael de Yoanna and Mark Benjamin July 16, 2009 | FORT CARSON, Colo. -- The harsh combat in Iraq, including potential war crimes that were witnessed by soldiers, contributed to a series of brutal murders by soldiers based at this Army post near Colorado Springs after they returned home, according to a hard-hitting Army study released Wednesday. Many of the findings in the study, which was announced by senior Army brass at a press conference on the post, mirror those in Salon's Coming Home series, which identified a pattern of preventable homicides and suicides at Fort Carson among soldiers who served in Iraq with combat stress and failed to receive proper medical treatment. According to the report, "Survey data from this investigation suggest a possible association between increasing levels of combat exposure and risk for negative behavioral outcomes." The study also says that "combat intensity/exposure . . . may have increased the risk for violent behaviors" and that its "findings are consistent with recent research on combat exposure and subsequent behavior outcomes among Soldiers." Salon's Coming Home series showed that soldiers who returned from combat duty with symptoms of stress were often ridiculed or otherwise discouraged from seeking help, were overmedicated or misdiagnosed, or chose to self-medicate with drugs and alcohol. Many had been deployed even though they were already displaying signs of combat stress. Additionally, some of the soldiers involved in violence against themselves or others had preexisting conditions that should have disqualified them from service, but were allowed into a military hard-pressed for new recruits via waivers. The 126-page report issued by the Army Wednesday -- an epidemiological study, or EPICON in military lingo -- focused largely on 14 of the Army post's soldiers allegedly involved in murders since 2005. Ordered by Fort Carson commander Maj. Gen. Mark Graham in the wake of the slayings, it is studded with statistical evidence that buttresses Salon's investigation. The numbers point to a link between violent behavior and substance abuse, repeated deployments, exposure to combat and enlistment waivers. In addition, many of the 14 soldiers allegedly involved in murders witnessed incidents described in the report as War Crimes. Five either heard of or witnessed the "murdering/killing" of non-combatants; three, "detainee abuse;" and, two, "fabricating evidence to justify attacks or criminal acts." Yet the Army officials presenting the report denied that it established any cause-and-effect relationships. Eric Schoomaker, the Army's surgeon general, waved his hands across his chest under clear blue skies during the outdoor press conference, dismissing the notion that the report proved a tie between soldier-involved killings and the horrors those soldiers experienced in the war. "While this is probably the most intensive and in-depth investigation on the clustering of violent-on-violent crimes in the Army that we've ever seen or are aware of," said Schoomaker, "it is still in many respects preliminary." Without causation, there is no way to establish how the murders could've been prevented. "We would all like to look back at the cluster of misconduct and criminal activities," said Schoomaker, "that resulted in devastating human tragedies here in Colorado and be able to say, 'This is the reason they happened and we know exactly what could have been done to prevent them,' but that's rarely the way things work when dealing with human behavior." Without causation, there is also limited accountability. While commanders were blamed for standing in the way of soldiers receiving mental health and substance-abuse care, Lt. Gen. Michael Rochelle, the Army's director of personnel, said the report "was not a tool that was intended to be used to either fix accountability or to be used for any sort of disciplinary action that may follow." Schoomaker, Rochelle and Maj. Gen. Graham, who was also on the podium Wednesday, were able to deny cause-and-effect because of caveats in the study. The authors of the report, a 24-member team assembled the Army's Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine, issued recommendations to stop the belittling of soldiers who seek mental health care and to identify units with high exposure to combat. They stopped short, however, of positing causation, saying that ""the cross-sectional nature of the study does not allow for making causal inferences." Thus Schoomaker could say, truthfully, "It's pointing the finger to levels of causation, but we don't know direct causation yet. ... I'm very reluctant to put cause and effect there. In fact, the authors [of the report] are very careful to say these are correlations ... not necessarily one causing the other." Yet Schoomaker also seemed to place some blame on the soldiers themselves for failing to seek help. He suggested that units where the soldiers were more willing to get help were less likely to be plagued with violence. The study, he noted, analyzed two brigades at Fort Carson, the 4th and the 3rd. "What did seem to differ between the two was the willingness and ability of those soldiers within the unit where crimes were committed to seek and get effective care for emerging behavioral health problems -- alcohol and drug problems -- and prompt attention to misconduct." Quantcast But Schoomaker also claimed that the experiences of the 4th and 3rd Brigades in combat were "similar." That's not what's indicated in the report -- the 4th Brigade, where the murder suspects were clustered, had eight times more combat deaths than the 3rd. Moreover, the report indicated that the Army itself played a role in denying care to the soldiers -- half, some with suicide issues, were sent back to Iraq "early," according to the report. U.S. Senator Mark Udall, a Colorado Democrat, who met on Tuesday with Schoomaker, issued a statement following the release of the report, noting it raises "serious questions about whether the military is doing enough to help service members transition from battle back into civilian life." "This is a matter of life and death, for our service members – and civilians," Udall stated. "We must do everything in our power to ensure that the military is providing all necessary treatment and support to protect our service members, their families, and our communities." That could be a long road. The report indicated that "overall staffing" for behavioral health at Fort Carson's Evans Army Community Hospital between 2006 and 2008 was just 65 percent of authorized positions. via here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Oh, good grief. How many soldiers are there, that never have any problems with stress? How many air traffic controllers have problems with stress? How many teachers have problems with stress? Physicians? geez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 <LI class=g><H3 class=r>FHA - Stress problems in the medical profession - Article Summary</H3>Doctors are renowned for denial of illness in themselves and often do not respond in the most helpful way to signs of distress in colleagues. www.find-health-articles.com/rec_pub_2627182-stress-problems-medical-profession.htm - Cached - Similar<LI class=g><H3 class=r>Career Killers: Substance Abuse: Depression & Stress in the ...</H3>As a member of the accounting profession, you simply do not have the luxury ..... A real problem arises only when our natural stress levels are allowed to ... www.tscpa.org/resource/peerasst/careerkillers.asp - Cached - Similar<LI class=g><H3 class=r>Teachers Under Pressure: Stress in the Teaching Profession: Amazon ...</H3>Teachers Under Pressure: Stress in the Teaching Profession: Amazon.co.uk: Cary Cooper, ... suggests ways in which the problems of teachers can be helped ... www.amazon.co.uk/Teachers...Profession/dp/0415094844 - Cached - Similar<LI class=g><H3 class=r>A Profession Under Stress - TIME</H3>A Profession Under Stress. By John Langone;Glenn Garelik/Moscow Monday, ... and looked for physical rather than psychological causes of mental problems. ... www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,957396,00.html - Similar<LI class=g><H3 class=r>Term papers on STRESS NURSING PROFESSION, STRESS NURSING ...</H3>Papers on "Stress and the Nursing Profession" and similar term paper topics ... a broad variety of work-related problems, including absenteeism, conflict, ... www.academon.com/lib/paper/54859.html - Cached - Similar<LI class=g><H3 class=r>Teachers Under Pressure: Stress in the Teaching Profession ...</H3>Buy Teachers Under Pressure: Stress in the Teaching Profession in India; ... are at risk of stress; explores how teachers' problems vary according to where ... www.infibeam.com/Books/info/Cheryl.../0415094844.html - Cached - Similar<LI class=g><H3 class=r>STRESS AND THE MEDICAL PROFESSION: COPING WITH MISTAKES - Stress ...</H3>stress can be used to give a broad indication of the extent to which stress is a problem within the.medica1 profession. In particular, levels of ... ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel3/3607/10732/00494768.pdf?arnumber... - Similar by F Fisher - 1995 - Related articles - All 2 versions<LI class=g><H3 class=r>Strengthening the Teaching Profession: Preparing Educators To Cope ...</H3>ED411239 - Strengthening the Teaching Profession: Preparing Educators To Cope with Stress. Help Tutorial Help | Tutorial Help | Tutorial Help With This Page ... www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/recordDetail?accno... - Cached - Similar by S Abebe - 1997 - Cited by 3 - Related articles<LI class=g>[DOC] <H3 class=r>An Overview of the Problems Experienced by the Legal Profession In ...</H3>File Format: Microsoft Word - View as HTML It is significant to the health of the legal profession on Ontario. The year 2001 problem overview showed stress at 45%, mental wellness issues at 19%, ... www.olap.ca/.../An%20Overview%20of%20the%20Problems%20Experienced%20b... - Similar<LI class=g><H3 class=r>IQ Media - Stress causes huge strain on teaching profession</H3>Stress causes huge strain on teaching profession ... Of those who identified problems at work as the cause, 78 percent said this was due to excessive ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 I guess that combat in our military causes everybody else stress too. wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 And just when I thought you actually gave a fcuk about the brave men and women who defended your rights, cal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 That's all you have? A false accusation/personal attack? I'm defending the honor of combat vets. Some vets ARE affected by stress. The point is, so are doctors. And teachers. and nurses. and lawyers. Here: I'll mimic your feeble attempting-to-discredit-the-other-guy nonsense: "Gosh, it's so sad and pitiful you don't care about doctors and teachers and nurses and attorneys..." This is just another way to cast malignant doubt on our veterans, as before, but this time you don't mention "possible right wing terrorists" or something. Human beings are affected by stress. A lot, if not all, professions. So, you cherry-picked our veterans. Not nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Top 5 professions who commit suicide: 1. Doctor 2. Dentist 3. Police Officer 4. Lawyer 5. Printers I am going to agree with Cal here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 KFP, we are also talking murder here, not just suicide. Some vets ARE affected by stress. The point is, so are doctors. And teachers. and nurses. and lawyers. This was an article written about how the Army neglects the psychological needs of its soldiers. It wasn't about lawyers, doctors or even printers. If you think the Army is treating this situation properly, or you prefer to spin this into something else (shocker!), go for it. I thought some folks might find this interesting and possibly negligent. Wonder what "Jenny" thinks about this......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Well done, Army! via here I find the article to be accurate unfortunately. I served in combat in Vietnam at a young age. At the time there was no adjustment period when you returned from combat. Just bam, on a plane, process out, back to civilian life. It kind of fukced me up for a while. I served again in the Navy, and made a career out of it. The Psychiatric care varies by location in the VA. I worked at the VAMC in Cleveland after retiring in 1994 from the USN. I witnessed some shit that really pissed me off. The Chief of Staff called veterans "slugs". I wanted to punch his lights out, but it would have cost me my job. We had numerous investigations of wrong doings by VA nurses and caregivers. I have a bad feeling that maybe the VA may be doing the same thing in 2009 that it was doing in 1994-1997. Don't get me wrong, their are a lot of good people working in the VA. Also a lot of people who look down on the military and are just their to pick up a pay check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Oh, good grief. How many soldiers are there, that never have any problems with stress? How many air traffic controllers have problems with stress? How many teachers have problems with stress? Physicians? geez. Cal, you must have never served in combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Cal didn't even read the article before commenting on it, unless he's a speed-reader. He "read" a long article and commented upon it within 4 minutes of my posting it? Please. I find the article to be accurate unfortunately. Hopefully folks will start to realize this and do something about it. Pretending it doesn't exist is completely counterproductive and, again, negligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 He's pretty much the most disgusting human being I've ever come in contact with on the internet. I don't agree with that....but having served like DH...I know it can be a stressful time...and once out, the government can be pretty pitiful in the way they treat people who experience problems. I was lucky..I never had any real problems other than the way some treated us after returning from Nam. I think the treatment received brought out more anger and stress than anything I experienced on active duty...at least there I could shoot at people without fear of being arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I think the treatment received brought out more anger and stress than anything I experienced on active duty...at least there I could shoot at people without fear of being arrested. Not if you were in John Kerry's company. Buh-dun- tisshh! Try the veal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Half of you pukes wouldn't last 1 hour in basic training or boot camp without waiving a stress card so the DS or DI wouldn't be allowed to yell at you. No I have not served in any combat situation, but I am a veteran and I will put it to you this way I was part of a package platoon, there were 64 when we started out and 6 months later there were only 4 of us remaining. With todays New Army, New Marines Corp. all 64 would make it. You can go get your stress cards now. And may God Bless all veterans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 I was part of a package platoon, there were 64 when we started out and 6 months later there were only 4 of us remaining. With todays New Army, New Marines Corp. all 64 would make it. I agree, and this is a terrible situation. To me, that tells me how little the government actually cares about the individuals sent over there to fight. They're just looking for warm bodies, who cares if they're even qualified to do what they've been sent over there to do. No wonder shit like Abu Grahib went down. Then, to make matters even worse, they're discouraged from seeking any psychological help if they're lucky enough to make it back, because the Armed Forces is one big locker room, rife with cock-measuring, where you're a fag if you seek psychological help. What a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Not every man is cut from the same cloth, in my opinion that is by God's design. I would never want to have to take another mans life, but as we were trained it was kill or be killed. I watched a documentary not to far back on the history channel and they were interviewing older combat war veterans many of them would say that even after all of the years away from combat they can still remember the killing, and that it is something that you never forget. At the present, many soldiers & marines that are coming back from Iraq or Afganistan are being sent into rehab as soon as they get off the planes. Regardless of the report the military is aware of what is going on but not willing to advertise it. May God Bless all of our men and women serving today and I pray that he will be with all of them, What these Men & Women have given up for all of us is very honorable. Regardless if you are for or against our troops fighting overseas, all of us need to Thank these Men & Women in uniform let them know that you appreciate what they are doing. So the next time you see someone in the armed forces, tell them Thank You! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 1. I was not defending VA hospitals. 2. DH was correct, I've never been in combat. 3. But to cherry pick an artical about soldiers having stress from combat just struck me as another attempt to mock or demean soldiers and the Iraq war. 4. Read #3 5. I know guys who served in combat, serious combat. Most of them were fine. Some not. My cousin was not, for a long time. It was subtle most of the years, but still there. 6. Some VA hospitals are good, some bad, I don't know any particulars outside of, my one friend is a male NURSE in a VA hospital, and said what I said. His is a fine hospital, but he's heard of bad ones. And that is a serious travesty if/when it ever occurs. 7. It's the cherry-picking to infer, indirectly, that the Iraq war is bad, and our soldiers are affected by stress. I simply made the point that other professions suffer stress, too, and mz the pussy isn't interested in talking about that stress. 8. I consider this article just another lame attempt to mock soldiers and that's how I responded. 9. Never said anything about treatment. If treatment is bad, it had better be fixed. But it's a foolish endeavor to infer that ALL VA help with stress is trash. 10. Since when is mz the pussy concerned with our soldiers? Since when is he and other libs concerned with "belittling" ??? In the service, the UCMJ takes care of violations by ANY rank. Folks, this is an article from SALON, not a formal bitpartisan Congressional commision's report. Get a grip. And please stop the character assasination vs anyone who ever disagrees with some of you, like a little pack of rabid hyenas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mz. Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Ramble on, cal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 KFP, we are also talking murder here, not just suicide. This was an article written about how the Army neglects the psychological needs of its soldiers. It wasn't about lawyers, doctors or even printers. If you think the Army is treating this situation properly, or you prefer to spin this into something else (shocker!), go for it. I thought some folks might find this interesting and possibly negligent. Wonder what "Jenny" thinks about this......... Murder too. Understood. I need to go back and re-read the article, only scanned it. I know I was actually posting those top 5 suicide sort of as a joke because me and T are printers (so to speak). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosar_For_President Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Not if you were in John Kerry's company. Buh-dun- tisshh! Try the veal. I just flew in and boy are my arms tired, Buh-dun tisshh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 so, the FED doesn't care for it's soldiers.... yet people still think it'll care for it's citizens..... WOW....is about all i can say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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