I don't say this often, but...

[htownbrown]

I somewhat agree with AOC on this one.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/488634-ocasio-cortez-members-of-congress-should-not-be-allowed-to-own%3famp

I'm not sure it's possible, considering successful people typically run for office and also typically have some kind of individual stock.  That's a catch 22.  Even if they have it all in equity funds, it's hard not to imagine the urge to tip off your manager if you know something bad is coming.  It's kind of similar to asking someone not to flinch while you slam their fingers in the car door, but it's still unfair to everyone else.

One of the biggest problems with her scenario, at least for me, is we will end up with candidates just like her.  They almost always would run on an anti capitalist and/or anti wall street agenda.  

But, yeah, I don't like the idea of people "wanting" to get elected to improve their finances. 

[OldBrownsFan]

I have noticed with wealthy politicians there are two types. Those who were wealthy prior to entering politics and those who became wealthy after entering politics. The latter group were the ones I had the most concerns about.

[MLD Woody]

I'd say that makes a lot of sense. Industry and lobbyists have way too much influence on our government. The payments congressmen can get are ridiculous and they can basically be paid for. 

I always liked the joke to put company stickers on them like NASCAR to see who owns them

[Westside Steve]

2 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

I'd say that makes a lot of sense. Industry and lobbyists have way too much influence on our government. The payments congressmen can get are ridiculous and they can basically be paid for. 

I always liked the joke to put company stickers on them like NASCAR to see who owns them

Yes, kinda. Still salesmen are an important part of every business across the board. Way of life.

WSS

[MLD Woody]

1 hour ago, Westside Steve said:

Yes, kinda. Still salesmen are an important part of every business across the board. Way of life.

WSS

And that means what exactly?

 

Companies should not be able to buy votes. Plain and simple. 

[Westside Steve]

15 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

And that means what exactly?

 

Companies should not be able to buy votes. Plain and simple. 

Lobbyists are salesman Woody for fucksake, you didn't know that? But of course you don't mean buying votes like with passing out free shit right?

WSS

[calfoxwc]

2 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Lobbyists are salesman Woody for fucksake, you didn't know that? But of course you don't mean buying votes like with passing out free shit right?

WSS

...add in "to illegals...." why should the gov be allowed to buy votes, Woody?

[MLD Woody]

35 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Lobbyists are salesman Woody for fucksake, you didn't know that? But of course you don't mean buying votes like with passing out free shit right?

WSS

christ you just have to immediately get hostile... of course

 

All you said was "salesmen are an important part of every business across the board. Way of life"

That was in response to a post of mine where I said I wanted lobbyist influence out of our government

 

So your response is that lobbyists are salespeople and salespeople are a way of life.....? That's it? That isn't exactly responding to what I said. Not really. Are you saying then that you're fine with company/lobbyist influence over those in our government? Can you expand on whatever you were trying to say?

[Westside Steve]

18 hours ago, MLD Woody said:

christ you just have to immediately get hostile... of course

 only when you make a silly knee-jerk political response. Apologies to Cal for appropriating one of his, catch phrases.

All you said was "salesmen are an important part of every business across the board. Way of life"

 yes. And?

That was in response to a post of mine where I said I wanted lobbyist influence out of our government

 but that's not going to happen Nor shouldn't necessarily.

 

So your response is that lobbyists are salespeople and salespeople are a way of life.....? That's it? That isn't exactly responding to what I said. Not really. Are you saying then that you're fine with company/lobbyist influence over those in our government? Can you expand on whatever you were trying to say?

 you should know I can expand on anything. First of all a small anecdotal example. Years ago I purchased a mattress from The Original Mattress Factory. One of the reasons I was pleased with my purchases the guy that ran that store had spent decades as the manager of the bedding department at O'Neill's department store downtown Akron which I thought was a pretty cool place. 

So if in fact you don't think that's unfair why then should it be unfair for Penny Corporation or business or cause Tire people knowledgeable to try to persuade others, in this case elected officials, at their business or service is it good one? In your mind would it be unfair that the Subaru salesperson has bigger tits turn the Ford sales person? Or that the kid in the stereo Department Best Buy knows more about the equipment then a kid at Walmart? Do you think the United Way, the Red Cross or St Jude's hospitals have lobbyists? So how about you expand on your reasoning that they should all be eliminated. Why shouldn't Boeing for example have someone advocating their plans as opposed to aerobus ? And please don't bore me with hypotheticals nobody is saying that  illegality is a good thing. 

WSS

[MLD Woody]

Ah, ok. I see where you're going. No I have nothing against salesmen. I mean, thru personally annoy me because I don't trust them, but yeah of course they're doing a job.

 

Your examples aren't akin to a lobbyist. 

Well, maybe I shouldn't say I'm against lobbyists, but I'm against the current system and what lobbyists do now.

It's essentially legal bribery through backdoor campaign finance, PACs, gifts, events, etc. "Money counts as free speech" is ridiculous. Through the use of lobbyists special interest groups have direct access to legislators to essentially bribe them and get the bills passed that benefit them. Even if those bills aren't best for the affected constituents or what they want. 

That process is what needs obviously reworked

If you want a lobbyist to just legally protest or call a senator, whatever. When the current system of legal bribery comes in though it's clearly broken and not how our democracy should function.

[calfoxwc]

2 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

Ah, ok. I see where you're going. No I have nothing against salesmen. I mean, thru personally annoy me because I don't trust them, but yeah of course they're doing a job.

Your examples aren't akin to a lobbyist. 

Well, maybe I shouldn't say I'm against lobbyists, but I'm against the current system and what lobbyists do now.

It's essentially legal bribery through backdoor campaign finance, PACs, gifts, events, etc. "Money counts as free speech" is ridiculous. Through the use of lobbyists special interest groups have direct access to legislators to essentially bribe them and get the bills passed that benefit them. Even if those bills aren't best for the affected constituents or what they want. 

That process is what needs obviously reworked

If you want a lobbyist to just legally protest or call a senator, whatever. When the current system of legal bribery comes in though it's clearly broken and not how our democracy should function.

ANOTHER knee jerk reaction from the most ignorant-on-issues sassy kid on the board. Just keeps pecking, that woodpecker does.

Along with always getting a participation trophy for every single thing in school, he learned how to invent false narratives so he could argue with said false narratives. So he would....FEEL.... smart.

************************************************************************

A Washington D.C. lobbyist is someone who understands how the federal government works. A multitude of legislative decisions are made every day and their broader impacts are often unclear. A lobbyist provides a voice to make members of Congress and others in the government aware of the issues and concerns of a segment of American society.

[LogicIsForSquares]

Yeah, Woody, stop being so critical of the people who pay for our puppet politicians to have an extra boat! They do a valuable service for the people who desperately want there to be regulations that only benefit them.

 

 

This is why smaller government is important so there is a reduced influence to be able to be purchased. But that ship has sailed. Neither party wants smaller government. They would lose that favor money.

[MLD Woody]

4 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

ANOTHER knee jerk reaction from the most ignorant-on-issues sassy kid on the board. Just keeps pecking, that woodpecker does.

Along with always getting a participation trophy for every single thing in school, he learned how to invent false narratives so he could argue with said false narratives. So he would....FEEL.... smart.

************************************************************************

A Washington D.C. lobbyist is someone who understands how the federal government works. A multitude of legislative decisions are made every day and their broader impacts are often unclear. A lobbyist provides a voice to make members of Congress and others in the government aware of the issues and concerns of a segment of American society.

So you quoted me and called my long, well explained post a "knee jerk" because you don't know how to say anything else

You go on to try and insult me multiple times while, shockingly, being wrong multiple times

Then,to prove how "right" you are, you just paste se canned definition of a lobbyist. That's it. No input, no thought, not even your opinion. You just paste a paragraph, someone else's thoughts, and then leave like you just won something.

And you know the best part?

I looked up that paragraph

It comes from a fucking lobbying firm's website! Because of course it does. Did you even realize that? Do you understand why taking the definition of a lobbyist from a lobbying firm might leave out some of the shady stuff that happens? You know, the shit I spoke about already?

 

 

Christ you're fucking stupid Cal

[MLD Woody]

Just now, LogicIsForSquares said:

Yeah, Woody, stop being so critical of the people who pay for our puppet politicians to have an extra boat! They do a valuable service for the people who desperately want there to be regulations that only benefit them.

 

 

This is why smaller government is important so there is a reduced influence to be able to be purchased. But that ship has sailed. Neither party wants smaller government. They would lose that favor money.

Man I could be on here saying we all need access to guns to defend ourselves and he'd say I'm "FEELING" too much, insult me a bunch, and then blindly post something from Mother Jones

 

I'm fully convinced he's incapable of having values or ideas of his own and instead just picked a color and blindly went with it

[calfoxwc]

14 minutes ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

This is why smaller government is important so there is a reduced influence to be able to be purchased. But that ship has sailed. Neither party wants smaller government. They would lose that favor money. 

it's good that you will be woodpecker's friend. He gets so freaking hostile every time somebody disagrees with him - he's lonely.

Smaller government doesn't mean smaller Congress, smaller President. Lobbyists try to persuade those who make the laws, to make laws that they agree with, like the NRA lobbyists persuade on the basis of our second amendment. Smaller government means that the government control/interference with Business and American's lives is restricted to a necessary minimum.

  The truth is, you want smaller government, Logic - it's lobbyists from the conservative side who work very hard to try to attain

smaller government ! You should encourage those lobbyists ! lol

 

[LogicIsForSquares]

21 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

it's good that you will be woodpecker's friend. He gets so freaking hostile every time somebody disagrees with him - he's lonely.

Smaller government doesn't mean smaller Congress, smaller President. Lobbyists try to persuade those who make the laws, to make laws that they agree with, like the NRA lobbyists persuade on the basis of our second amendment. Smaller government means that the government control/interference with Business and American's lives is restricted to a necessary minimum.

  The truth is, you want smaller government, Logic - it's lobbyists from the conservative side who work very hard to try to attain

smaller government ! You should encourage those lobbyists ! lol

 

I want smaller government influence all around. I don’t trust the NRA at all. They will sell out their constituents at the drop of a hat (ex: see their reactions to gun right infringements under Republicans).
 

You shouldn’t be able to buy your way into getting things like water quality laws (whole reason why the Elk River water crisis happened here) ignored for your particular company.

[calfoxwc]

4 minutes ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

I want smaller government influence all around. I don’t trust the NRA at all. They will sell out their constituents at the drop of a hat (ex: see their reactions to gun right infringements under Republicans).
 

You shouldn’t be able to buy your way into getting things like water quality laws (whole reason why the Elk River water crisis happened here) ignored for your particular company.

Well, I'm assuming that you are talking about the donations to run for office the next time, etc etc etc. ?

The trouble is, how do you outlaw donations from lobbyists ? we have billionaires on the far left and right throwing money

all over the place. They just throw them at "pacs" I think, to avoid the personal donation laws.

   If it isn't money buying their influence - it's always the number of voters in a bloc, which is the way it should be I suppose.

BTW, I did get mail from the GOC - "Gun Owners Care". I ignored it for a while, but it seems very legit - I just never heard of it before. Right now, I'm no longer a member of the NRA, just joined the Buckeye Firearms Association instead. Rich tycoon Wayne LaPeiu needs to leave.

[LogicIsForSquares]

1 minute ago, calfoxwc said:

Well, I'm assuming that you are talking about the donations to run for office the next time, etc etc etc. ?

The trouble is, how do you outlaw donations from lobbyists ? we have billionaires on the far left and right throwing money

all over the place. They just throw them at "pacs" I think, to avoid the personal donation laws.

   If it isn't money buying their influence - it's always the number of voters in a bloc, which is the way it should be I suppose.

BTW, I did get mail from the GOC - "Gun Owners Care". I ignored it for a while, but it seems very legit - I just never heard of it before. Right now, I'm no longer a member of the NRA, just joined the Buckeye Firearms Association instead. Rich tycoon Wayne LaPeiu needs to leave.

GOA is a good national org. 
 

I don’t think all lobbyists are bad if their goal is to educate (we have shitloads of dumb politicians) so better decision making can occur. But outright paying for decisions that counter the safety of everyone (I.e. letting a few ruin drinking water for an entire region) is the kind of thing that used to get you strung up or a guillotine. 

[OldBrownsFan]

I understand some of the concerns with the NRA. I always liked Wayne Pierre until I found out he was abusing his expense account and he should have been forced to resign. I would have loved to have seen Ollie North or Allen West take over myself. I still support the NRA. We are in a war with those wanting to take away our second amendment rights and a house divided will not stand. We shouldn't be fighting amongst pro 2a groups.

[LogicIsForSquares]

11 hours ago, OldBrownsFan said:

I understand some of the concerns with the NRA. I always liked Wayne Pierre until I found out he was abusing his expense account and he should have been forced to resign. I would have loved to have seen Ollie North or Allen West take over myself. I still support the NRA. We are in a war with those wanting to take away our second amendment rights and a house divided will not stand. We shouldn't be fighting amongst pro 2a groups.

The NRA is pro 2A when convenient. When it isn’t politically convenient to buck a Republican President, they will sit on their hands. They would be crying foul if a Dem President banned bumpstocks via EO and then talked openly about supporting red flag laws and banning suppressors. Trump did it and they continued to kiss the ring. I hope the NRA goes under. Spend your money with an org that isn’t fair weather.

[calfoxwc]

[Westside Steve]

6 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

The NRA is pro 2A when convenient. When it isn’t politically convenient to buck a Republican President, they will sit on their hands. They would be crying foul if a Dem President banned bumpstocks via EO and then talked openly about supporting red flag laws and banning suppressors. Trump did it and they continued to kiss the ring. I hope the NRA goes under. Spend your money with an org that isn’t fair weather.

Of course you can see the difference between an organization that might not be as ferocious fighting for the Second Amendment and one who's dedicated for the elimination that Amendment right? Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, or even the not as miserable as it could be.

WSS

[LogicIsForSquares]

6 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Of course you can see the difference between an organization that might not be as ferocious fighting for the Second Amendment and one who's dedicated for the elimination that Amendment right? Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, or even the not as miserable as it could be.

WSS

I don’t keep bellying up to the bar for the diet plate of shit when there are better options. 

[Tour2ma]

On 3/22/2020 at 10:04 AM, calfoxwc said:

ANOTHER knee jerk reaction from the most ignorant-on-issues sassy kid on the board. Just keeps pecking, that woodpecker does.

Along with always getting a participation trophy for every single thing in school, he learned how to invent false narratives so he could argue with said false narratives. So he would....FEEL.... smart.

And I'm the one who attacks people incessantly?

[calfoxwc]

4 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

And I'm the one who attacks people incessantly?

oh, stop, grasshopper. MYOB. Woodpecker started his crap long, long ago. He can't quit for long. He starts it right back up again -

or he wouldn't have any substantial contribution, negative such as it is, to this forum. All that happened before you came on board matters. That's...eh...."ATHBYCOBM" as an acronym.

at·tack

 (ə-tăk′)

v. at·tacked, at·tack·ing, at·tacks

v.tr.

To criticize strongly or in a hostile manner.

To act on in a detrimental way; cause harm to (as in now, "...to any legit discussion or thread")

*******************************************************************************

defense

[ dih-fens or especially for 7, 9, dee-fens ]

 

SEE SYNONYMS FOR defense ON THESAURUS.COM

---

noun

resistance against attack; protection:

something that defends,

the defending of a cause or the like by speech, argument, etc.: He spoke in defense of the nation's foreign policy.

a speech, argument, etc., in vindication: She delivered a defense of free enterprise.

******************************************************************

   Now, buttinski - hang around long enough, and you will see how woodpecker attacks - and I defend, albeit strongly and more humor than verbal malice.

  So, "don't come after me, and I won't defend in response".

. Definitions matter. Liberals misuse words intentionally for the emotionalism benefit they thrive on.

Have a nice day

 

[Westside Steve]

17 hours ago, LogicIsForSquares said:

I don’t keep bellying up to the bar for the diet plate of shit when there are better options. 

I don't expect you to I'm just pointing out that a flawed 2nd Amendment rights organization is better than the DNC. And you know my take on the situation. The Second Amendment has already been castrated and it's not likely to grow stronger as time goes by. C'est la vie

WSS