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Update on Traded Tribesmen


Kosar_For_President

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Cliff Lee pitches a 4 hit complete game.

 

Ben Francisco hits a RBI double.

 

Mark DeRosa hits his seventh homer in 11 games.

 

That's about right.

 

We have always been the farm team of the MLB, it sucks but its true. VM has been my fav player for ever and it pisses me off we got rid of him. Its hard to be a fan right now. Im just happy the Browns and Cavs are up and coming.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Francisco homer lifts Phillies over Cubs in the 12th.

 

OK, but he would play instead of...?

 

Sizemore?

Choo?

LaPorta?

Brantley?

Crowe?

 

While I'm not a Crowe fan, Brantley isn't near ready, and I'd rather see LaPorta at 1st... I'd rather have LaPorta in the lineup in LF when he's not at 1st, than have Francisco keep him on the bench. And I'd rather see what Crowe can do for now, than have Benny, 28 or 29yrs old? 260 hitter, mediocre power, mediocre pitch selection/plate discipline, clog things up.

 

He's not a bad player, but he's at best, a 4th OF for a team that can compete for a division. And that's one thing the Indians do not need.

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OK, but he would play instead of...?

 

Sizemore?

Choo?

LaPorta?

Brantley?

Crowe?

 

While I'm not a Crowe fan, Brantley isn't near ready, and I'd rather see LaPorta at 1st... I'd rather have LaPorta in the lineup in LF when he's not at 1st, than have Francisco keep him on the bench. And I'd rather see what Crowe can do for now, than have Benny, 28 or 29yrs old? 260 hitter, mediocre power, mediocre pitch selection/plate discipline, clog things up.

 

He's not a bad player, but he's at best, a 4th OF for a team that can compete for a division. And that's one thing the Indians do not need.

 

True. This is sort of just to update who left us this year and what they did. Nothing malicious.

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  • 1 month later...

I have to say, I got a pretty strange satisfaction with Pavano getting shelled to pretty much sink the Twins' season just now.

 

I don't have anything against the guy, and I'd usually prefer the Twins to the Tigers, but just seeing one of our jettisoned guys royally explode was a pretty welcome sight.

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I have to say, I got a pretty strange satisfaction with Pavano getting shelled to pretty much sink the Twins' season just now.

 

I don't have anything against the guy, and I'd usually prefer the Twins to the Tigers, but just seeing one of our jettisoned guys royally explode was a pretty welcome sight.

 

I'm not with ya on this one, CIMO. I'm pulling like mad for the Twins and don't give a care if they do it with our castoffs.

 

Come to think of it, I have no clear idea why I feel that way. WTF have the Twins ever done to earn my love? Blyleven in the booth? Pseudo-kinship with those in a similar climate? Never won a Super Bowl?

 

Nah, just not a fan of Detroit.

 

Beanpot

 

 

 

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I'm far from a Detroit fan myself. But I think the rules change in a lost season. Optimism turns into bitterness. I'd much rather have the better team win than the team that played like crap most of the year, wasting one of the best individual seasons in baseball history, no starting pitching, and they suddenly are in a "pennant chase" and the fans are probably loving it. Meanwhile everyone keeps talking about how Minnesota is a model franchise and how they do it the right way and how they're always in it, when it's just them consistently finishing 2nd or 3rd in a weak division, or, if they actually make the playoffs, getting embarrassed in the first round.

 

I love Mauer and Morneau and Nathan, but I can't stand rooting for a mediocre team who lucked into a division race. I hope they fall flat, and the Tigers lose in the first round.

 

And with Pavano....it's just fatigue, pretty much. I'm a bit of a Bill Simmons fan and want to smash my computer every time he talks about how much he loves Victor. I don't keep up with the NL but I change the channel every time they try to show me Lee highlights. Even Pavano was coming up with some big wins for the Twins. It was just incredibly satisfying see him get rocked, knowing Minny has to pick up most of his salary and seeing them waste a season as a deadline "buyer".

 

 

So, well acknowledged that it's not much more than pure bitterness. But every Twins loss is a like a mini-Tribe victory for me now.

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So, well acknowledged that it's not much more than pure bitterness. But every Twins loss is a like a mini-Tribe victory for me now.

 

Fair enough and I'm guessing your heart aches a bit more at this hour. Dunno, but I loved watching that game this afternoon and am loving the first three frames of this Detroit game. Which makes no sense because my least favorite teams are 1) Yanks 2) ChiSox 3) Tigers and 4) Every other team not based in Cleveland. So I'm rooting for my second least favorite team to beat my third least favorite team just so my third least favorite team doesn't make the playoffs. The head, it is a-spinning.

 

Beanpot

 

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Verlander vs. Danks

Pavano vs. Hochevar

 

 

I wish the White Sox were in the Twins' shoes....Verlander-Danks would be a duel.

 

I've watched more Royals this year than what should be legal for the mixture of Greinke's absurdity and to make me feel better and remember that we could be worse. That said, Hochevar made one of the most boneheaded plays I've ever seen a few weeks ago, basically scratching his head while a runner scored and another advanced from first to third. From the handful of times I've watched him, he's way up there on the list on guy's I'd be least confident in when they're on the mound. It would be pretty beautiful if he somehow pulls one out against Pavano.

 

I'm pretty interested in both of the games....but not as much as if Danks had something to play for. I'll watch the Browns, maybe watch some of the Tigers if Danks and Verlander start putting up 0's. Hochevar getting a win would be a good laugh, probably not a good watch.

 

 

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Looks like one extra game of playoff goodness. Hochevar *again* gave up more runs than innings pitched. Man, that guy is the king of blowups. He shows dashes of brilliance and then - boom - the bad inning always seems to find him. He's had one strange career path from high school to the SEC to the indy leagues to the minors and then finally the bigs.

 

Ball Star has had a series of good pieces on the guy and here's one of the most recent:

 

Some thoughts on Luke Hochevar while hoping the Royals and Chiefs don't start some Truman Sports Complex turf war over the K-Crew.

 

Hochevar turned 26 last week. He's older than Zack Greinke and Joakim Soria, older than Cole Hamels, Felix Hernandez, Matt Cain, Josh Johnson and a whole other host of guys making impacts in the major leagues.

 

The Royals drafted him first overall, the pick of the 2006 draft litter, because they said he was the closest to making an impact in the big leagues. They thought Hoch had the shortest learning curve. Tim Lincecum, also drafted that year, has since won a Cy Young Award and started the All-Star game.

 

Hoch was at it again last night, four scoreless innings against the Red Sox where you think he has something, then a disastrous, eight-straight-reach-base fifth inning* where it all falls apart.

 

* Plivvy asks the money question in the comments: Of the innings in which Luke gives up run(s), what percentage of those innings involves him giving up 3+ runs?

 

Now, this comes with the usual caveat about my math, but the answer is an even 50 percent. The American League average this year is 21 percent.

 

Hoch has allowed zero runs -- I didn't count fractions of innings -- in 70 percent of his innings, which is almost identical to the league average (72 percent). But he's allowed three or more runs in 10 percent of his innings, nearly twice the league average of 6 percent.

 

So, yeah, there's a mathematical representation of what we all see.

 

This is the guy who -- even on a staff with Zack Greinke -- has three of the best starts of the season: an 80-pitch complete game against the Reds, 13 strikeouts and no walks in seven scoreless against the Rangers, and a three-hit shutout just last week against the White Sox.

 

This is also the guy who has given up more runs than innings in eight of his starts -- more than once every three tries. His ERA is now 5.98, which is not only terrible, but would rank dead last in baseball if he had enough innings to qualify.

 

The play in Oakland, when Rajai Davis took third base while Hoch walked back to the mound in a daze, is already being used by some as the anecdote for his career.

 

Among pitchers with more than 40 starts by their age 25 season (Hoch just made his 46th), he has the 16th-worst ERA since 1901. Nos. 1-15 are a who's-who of busts: Chris George, Todd Van Poppel, Chad Durbin, and Dewon Brazelton among them.

 

Recently, someone told Hoch he was tipping his pitches. He was disheartened at feeling like he'd wasted two years of getting hit hard, but encouraged that he'd found the secret combination to lasting success.

 

Many baseball people rolled their eyes at that. They've so far been proven right. Hoch has had three starts since then, and it's followed the same pattern as before: two disasters (five runs in five innings against the Indians, six runs in five innings against Boston) and one gem (the three-hit shutout).

 

This isn't written as the obituary to Hoch's potential to be a successful starting pitcher in the big leagues. His highs are too high to ignore, and the Royals are still in a position where they can be patient.

 

But the patience won't last forever.

 

http://royalsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node/461

 

Beanpot

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Yep, Hochevar is pretty terrible.

 

You know, I really wish the guys who come through this section of the board whenever there's a trade and calls our team the Oakland Raiders....would read up on the Royals. That team isn't just bad...it's pretty fascinatingly bad. The Indians, even after getting rid of two Cy Young winners and an all-star catcher, still have at least 7 or 8 genuinely exciting players on their big league team. (just to count....Sizemore, Choo, Cabrera, LaPorta, Brantley, Perez, Sipp...that's 7), a handful of dependable guys with potential (Laffey, Masterson, Huff, Carmona, Valbuena), and a couple guys who are just average, solid big leaguers (Peralta, Hafner, Westbrook, Wood), and I could be forgetting a few.

 

The Royals have 2 blue chip players in Greinke and Soria, a very good player in Butler, and a defensive whiz in DeJesus. What real major leaguers do they have after them? Mark Teahen (.734 OPS)? Alberto Callaspo (career-best .813 OPS)? Brian Bannister (4.79 ERA)? The rest of the roster is just a collection of draft busts (so far) and washed up veterans.

 

And they've had one winning season (83-80) this decade.

 

 

So I don't know. I still can't get used to calling the Indians a bad organization. We're not the Yankees or the Red Sox, or the '90s Tribe, and probably won't be for a long time, if ever. But there are too many truly bad sports organizations for me to get too down on the Tribe.

 

 

 

 

And since this turned into a Royals thread, I have to say. Not only is it a shame that Zach Greinke is going to waste....but they're wasting the best uniform in baseball these days.

 

Zack%20Greinke.jpg

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According to Albert Belle, we should be employing the 90's Tribe as our coaching staff!

 

Albert Belle calls in advice: don't trade your stars

By Paul Hoynes

October 04, 2009, 12:15AM

 

First they lost. Then they traded everybody. Finally, they fired everybody.

 

So what else could be missing from this fine Indians season that ends today? What about a phone call from former Tribe slugger Albert Belle to tie all the loose ends together?

 

For the third time in the past two years, Belle punched my cellphone number from his home in Scottsdale, Ariz. As I walked down the dank visitor's tunnel at Fenway Park in Boston on Friday, I answered his call. There was no mistaking the voice on the other end of the line.

 

"Tell Larry Dolan I won't be interviewing for the manager's job," said one of the most feared and ill-tempered hitters in Indians history. "How can you manage when you've got no players?"

 

Manager Eric Wedge and his coaching staff were fired Wednesday by General Manager Mark Shapiro.

 

"This season isn't the manager's fault," Belle said. "They traded away all his players. You can't win when you trade two Cy Young winners in CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee.

 

"Dolan is getting what he paid for."

 

Over the past two years, the Indians have traded Sabathia, Casey Blake, Paul Byrd, Lee, Ben Francisco, Mark DeRosa, Rafael Betancourt, Ryan Garko, Victor Martinez and Carl Pavano in salary dumps.

 

"Every time I watch a game in Cleveland, there's nobody in the stands," Belle said. "I said, 'Damn, it's worse than the old place [Cleveland Municipal Stadium] where we played.'

 

"What do they call that park now, Progressive Field? They should call it Regressive Field."

 

Belle chuckled an evil chuckle after saying "Regressive Field."

 

"I've got buddies in Cleveland who had free tickets to games this season," Belle said. "They told me, 'We're not going. Who are you going to watch?' "

 

Belle played eight years (1989-1996) for the Indians. He ranks second all-time in homers with 242 and slugging percentage at .580. In 1995, when the Indians reached the World Series for the first time in 41 years, he had one of the greatest seasons in club history.

 

Belle hit .317 and led the AL with 52 doubles, 50 homers, 126 RBI and a .690 slugging percentage. His OPS was 1.091.

 

He did not win the AL MVP award, mostly because of his sparkling personality and frequent suspensions.

 

It should be mentioned that I disliked Belle more than any player I've covered. He was a bully, uncooperative and a constant pain in the neck. I know the feeling was mutual.

 

I have no idea why he calls me, but Belle was and always will be entertaining.

 

"I might have to put a coaching staff of Kenny Lofton, Eddie Murray and Wayne Kirby together," Belle said. "Charles Nagy could be our pitching coach. Then I'd go to Dolan and apply for the job as manager.

 

"I could bring back all those guys. Maybe that would help."

 

Belle was laughing when he said that. He did not sound serious.

 

A bad left hip forced Belle to retire in 2000. If he had played a little longer, it would have been hard to keep him out of the Hall of Fame. Even now his numbers are elite -- .295, 389 doubles, 381 homers, 1,239 RBI, 974 runs, .396 on-base percentage and a .564 slugging percentage.

 

'Belle spends most of his time playing golf, but baseball and the Indians still pull at him.

 

Asked who he felt would win the World Series, Belle said: "It looks like the Yankees. They've got [Derek] Jeter, [Alex Rodriguez], [Mark] Teixeira and now they've got all that pitching.

 

"Joe Girardi is going to probably win Manager of the Year. I could manage the Yankees from home. I'd just call in the lineup every day from the golf course."

 

Belle, 43, said he liked watching Prince Fielder and the Brewers perform a recent choreographed routine after a walkoff homer. Fielder jumped on the plate and all his teammates fell down. The rest of baseball did not approve.

 

"I would love to do that," said Belle. "We were the first team to start all that in Cleveland when we were hitting all those walkoff homers."

 

That was a long time ago for the Indians and Belle.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2...n_advice_d.html

 

Beanpot

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but they're wasting the best uniform in baseball these days.

 

Yeah, those things are crisp. I'm still partial to the green and gold in the Bay area and though I don't care for the team, that olde english D to the West of Cleveland is pretty appealing.

 

Beanpot

 

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