Facebook is demonstrably meddling in 2020 Election

[jbluhm86]

Project Veritas video:

 

[jbluhm86]

Tim Pool's breakdown of the video:

I think it's pretty obvious that Facebook is acting as a publisher now under Section 230, instead of a neutral platform. Even some Democrats are calling them out now. I think it's well past time to reign these social media companies in.

[MLD Woody]

- I watched the video. Sorry, but I just have a hard time trusting anything Veritas puts out at face value because they've been caught red handed. This video is basically a jaded former employee with hidden camera footage of his conservative friends agreeing with him. Some bias shown in there by individuals, sure, it just doesn't seem like a damning video against Facebook. 

- If Section 230 is modified to remove protections from social media it basically kills it. Facebook and Twitter are cesspools, sure, but sites like YouTube are fucked too. I'm not exactly fighting to save them but the fallout will be huge. 

- I didn't watch Tim Pool's video because I generally just don't enjoy the guy's videos and he's never made any real eye opening points IMO. 

- This Ryan Hartwig guy complaining about getting passed over because he's a white, make, conservative. Idk, maybe, but go look at his LinkedIn. He's not exactly a world beater over there. Nothing that impressive. Hell, his position on linked says "Entrepreneur" now which is hilarious and he has his own blog pimping this video and showing a book he wrote that you can buy. 

- Also, finally, I just don't buy into the "I'm so oppressed as a straight, white male. Everyone is against me." That's some 4chan incel Q Anon talk in my eyes. I don't feel oppressed in any way, and I never have. Posters here are gonna flip out but yes, I do feel like I have some privilege. That is just my experience though. 

[Comeonman]

7 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

- I watched the video. Sorry, but I just have a hard time trusting anything Veritas puts out at face value because they've been caught red handed. This video is basically a jaded former employee with hidden camera footage of his conservative friends agreeing with him. Some bias shown in there by individuals, sure, it just doesn't seem like a damning video against Facebook. 

- If Section 230 is modified to remove protections from social media it basically kills it. Facebook and Twitter are cesspools, sure, but sites like YouTube are fucked too. I'm not exactly fighting to save them but the fallout will be huge. 

- I didn't watch Tim Pool's video because I generally just don't enjoy the guy's videos and he's never made any real eye opening points IMO. 

- This Ryan Hartwig guy complaining about getting passed over because he's a white, make, conservative. Idk, maybe, but go look at his LinkedIn. He's not exactly a world beater over there. Nothing that impressive. Hell, his position on linked says "Entrepreneur" now which is hilarious and he has his own blog pimping this video and showing a book he wrote that you can buy. 

- Also, finally, I just don't buy into the "I'm so oppressed as a straight, white male. Everyone is against me." That's some 4chan incel Q Anon talk in my eyes. I don't feel oppressed in any way, and I never have. Posters here are gonna flip out but yes, I do feel like I have some privilege. That is just my experience though. 

Is it just a feeling? Or can you point to certain things that show you are treated differently because of your skin color. 
 

I’m open to other ideas and opinions, but the privilege idea is mostly lost on me. 

[MLD Woody]

11 minutes ago, Comeonman said:

Is it just a feeling? Or can you point to certain things that show you are treated differently because of your skin color. 
 

I’m open to other ideas and opinions, but the privilege idea is mostly lost on me. 

It's more that I'm not treated differently. No one had ever questioned if I got into my university or if I was in my role to fill a quota. I've seen and heard those thoughts about others. I've had people assume people on my team were hired because of that thinking. I've been asked to lean towards women and minorities in my hiring process. 

Things like that. 

[Comeonman]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

It's more that I'm not treated differently. No one had ever questioned if I got into my university or if I was in my role to fill a quota. I've seen and heard those thoughts about others. I've had people assume people on my team were hired because of that thinking. I've been asked to lean towards women and minorities in my hiring process. 

Things like that. 

So minorities and women have had privilege over others in hiring processes. I’ve heard that a lot. 
 

I guess there would be a lot of assumptions at times if it was put out in the open like that. 

[cccjwh]

9 minutes ago, Comeonman said:

So minorities and women have had privilege over others in hiring processes. I’ve heard that a lot. 
 

I guess there would be a lot of assumptions at times if it was put out in the open like that. 

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews

http://www-2.rotman.utoronto.ca/facbios/file/Whitening MS R2 Accepted.pdf

In one study, the researchers created resumes for black and Asian applicants and sent them out for 1,600 entry-level jobs posted on job search websites in 16 metropolitan sections of the United States. Some of the resumes included information that clearly pointed out the applicants’ minority status, while others were whitened, or scrubbed of racial clues. The researchers then created email accounts and phone numbers for the applicants and observed how many were invited for interviews.

Employer callbacks for resumes that were whitened fared much better in the application pile than those that included ethnic information, even though the qualifications listed were identical. Twenty-five percent of black candidates received callbacks from their whitened resumes, while only 10 percent got calls when they left ethnic details intact. Among Asians, 21 percent got calls if they used whitened resumes, whereas only 11.5 percent heard back if they sent resumes with racial references.

 

[MLD Woody]

22 minutes ago, Comeonman said:

So minorities and women have had privilege over others in hiring processes. I’ve heard that a lot. 
 

I guess there would be a lot of assumptions at times if it was put out in the open like that. 

It depends on the role and the industry. This is Engineering where there aren't many women or minorities. 

I also ultimately made my own decision on who to hire. The only really mandates thing was that I couldn't move on to phone interviews until I had at least one underrepresented applicant. 

As CCC posted though there are studies showing black applicants with the same resume getting called back less. 

[htownbrown]

8 minutes ago, cccjwh said:

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews

http://www-2.rotman.utoronto.ca/facbios/file/Whitening MS R2 Accepted.pdf

In one study, the researchers created resumes for black and Asian applicants and sent them out for 1,600 entry-level jobs posted on job search websites in 16 metropolitan sections of the United States. Some of the resumes included information that clearly pointed out the applicants’ minority status, while others were whitened, or scrubbed of racial clues. The researchers then created email accounts and phone numbers for the applicants and observed how many were invited for interviews.

Employer callbacks for resumes that were whitened fared much better in the application pile than those that included ethnic information, even though the qualifications listed were identical. Twenty-five percent of black candidates received callbacks from their whitened resumes, while only 10 percent got calls when they left ethnic details intact. Among Asians, 21 percent got calls if they used whitened resumes, whereas only 11.5 percent heard back if they sent resumes with racial references.

 

I applied at the place I'm currently working at 3x before I got an interview........with the same resume.  Believe what you want.

[MLD Woody]

1 minute ago, htownbrown said:

I applied at the place I'm currently working at 3x before I got an interview........with the same resume.  Believe what you want.

That's why studies exist. 

 

Even my example is just one (or a handful) of data points. 

[htownbrown]

1 minute ago, MLD Woody said:

That's why studies exist. 

 

Even my example is just one (or a handful) of data points. 

In the study he posted, the 'whitening method' was not consistent enough to make the claim it's making if I buy it at face value.  Not too mention, I am highly suspect of data omission to make this kind of point.  There was clearly an agenda in making this kind of study.  I don't buy it.

[cccjwh]

5 minutes ago, htownbrown said:

I applied at the place I'm currently working at 3x before I got an interview........with the same resume.  Believe what you want.

The Anecdotal Fallacy is committed when a recent memory, a striking anecdote, or a news story of an unusual event leads one to overestimate the probability of that type of event, especially when one has access to better evidence. In other words, the mistake is to allow the emotional effects of a vivid memory or story to outweigh stronger evidence, such as statistics, on the frequency of such events.

Your anecdotal evidence < peer reviewed study

[htownbrown]

4 minutes ago, cccjwh said:

The Anecdotal Fallacy is committed when a recent memory, a striking anecdote, or a news story of an unusual event leads one to overestimate the probability of that type of event, especially when one has access to better evidence. In other words, the mistake is to allow the emotional effects of a vivid memory or story to outweigh stronger evidence, such as statistics, on the frequency of such events.

Your anecdotal evidence < peer reviewed study

Did you read the study?

[MLD Woody]

7 minutes ago, htownbrown said:

In the study he posted, the 'whitening method' was not consistent enough to make the claim it's making if I buy it at face value.  Not too mention, I am highly suspect of data omission to make this kind of point.  There was clearly an agenda in making this kind of study.  I don't buy it.

I admittedly haven't looked too deep into the methodology. I'll look later. I've seen similar conclusions before, on sites I feel are reputable, but I haven't looked closely at this one. 

[htownbrown]

5 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

I admittedly haven't looked too deep into the methodology. I'll look later. I've seen similar conclusions before, on sites I feel are reputable, but I haven't looked closely at this one. 

fair enough

[cccjwh]

20 minutes ago, htownbrown said:

Did you read the study?

I read it a couple of years ago. Do you have a problem with the methodology? Because all you have done so far bring up how it took you 3x to get your job.

[htownbrown]

5 minutes ago, cccjwh said:

I read it a couple of years ago. Do you have a problem with the methodology? Because all you have done so far bring up how it took you 3x to get your job.

I do.  They didn't use the same methodologies.  If you simply change a person's name and get different results after multiple attempts with the original name, i get the point.  If you change racial 'cues' in one (or some) applicant's resume, I don't.  First of all, that's very vague as I don't get to know what you changed to "make it whiter".  Do you?

[cccjwh]

8 minutes ago, htownbrown said:

I do.  They didn't use the same methodologies.  If you simply change a person's name and get different results after multiple attempts with the original name, i get the point.  If you change racial 'cues' in one (or some) applicant's resume, I don't.  First of all, that's very vague as I don't get to know what you changed to "make it whiter".  Do you?

If you are interested there are multiple studies similar to this one, but with housing, how politicians response to requests for their constituents, selling an ipod, and even getting an appointment with primary physician. 

I found a paper that audited some of them. No I haven't read this, but it refences many other studies.

https://sociologicalscience.com/download/vol-4/september/SocSci_v4_469to489.pdf

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

1 hour ago, cccjwh said:

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews

http://www-2.rotman.utoronto.ca/facbios/file/Whitening MS R2 Accepted.pdf

In one study, the researchers created resumes for black and Asian applicants and sent them out for 1,600 entry-level jobs posted on job search websites in 16 metropolitan sections of the United States. Some of the resumes included information that clearly pointed out the applicants’ minority status, while others were whitened, or scrubbed of racial clues. The researchers then created email accounts and phone numbers for the applicants and observed how many were invited for interviews.

Employer callbacks for resumes that were whitened fared much better in the application pile than those that included ethnic information, even though the qualifications listed were identical. Twenty-five percent of black candidates received callbacks from their whitened resumes, while only 10 percent got calls when they left ethnic details intact. Among Asians, 21 percent got calls if they used whitened resumes, whereas only 11.5 percent heard back if they sent resumes with racial references.

 

Bullshit.  Asians would have been the first called back.

[htownbrown]

16 minutes ago, cccjwh said:

If you are interested there are multiple studies similar to this one, but with housing, how politicians response to requests for their constituents, selling an ipod, and even getting an appointment with primary physician. 

I found a paper that audited some of them. No I haven't read this, but it refences many other studies.

https://sociologicalscience.com/download/vol-4/september/SocSci_v4_469to489.pdf

 

Well let me just ask you this.  If you're are hiring in a more inclusive diverse company and you read on someone's resume they were a member of a very specific racial club in college, does that make you feel this person will work well with all types of people?  

I think of it as leaving that off your resume looks more inclusive, by nature, than actual 'whiting it up'.  All types of people can come from a generic club, but only one type can come from a race specific club.

[MLD Woody]

1 hour ago, htownbrown said:

 

I think of it as leaving that off your resume looks more inclusive, by nature, than actual 'whiting it up'.  All types of people can come from a generic club, but only one type can come from a race specific club.

I participated in an Asian Intervarsity Christian Fellowship group on campus. I was their DC/Safety and led us to an intramural flag football championship. 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

7 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

I participated in an Asian Intervarsity Christian Fellowship group on campus. I was their DC/Safety and led us to an intramural flag football championship. 

Ain't you fucking special.

[htownbrown]

13 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

I participated in an Asian Intervarsity Christian Fellowship group on campus. I was their DC/Safety and led us to an intramural flag football championship. 

I'm sure that didn't get you the job, nor that it made your resume.  Did Harbaugh at least take notice?

[MLD Woody]

26 minutes ago, htownbrown said:

I'm sure that didn't get you the job, nor that it made your resume.  Did Harbaugh at least take notice?

Correct, haha.

Pre Harbaugh unfortunately. Though knowing him, he's probably researched every intramural flag football champ on campus to scout

[cccjwh]

2 hours ago, htownbrown said:

Well let me just ask you this.  If you're are hiring in a more inclusive diverse company and you read on someone's resume they were a member of a very specific racial club in college, does that make you feel this person will work well with all types of people?  

I think of it as leaving that off your resume looks more inclusive, by nature, than actual 'whiting it up'.  All types of people can come from a generic club, but only one type can come from a race specific club.

What I would do is a single data point. What happen on average is what we want to look at. The number seems to be moving in the right direction btw. The more recent studies have shown less bias.

[htownbrown]

8 minutes ago, cccjwh said:

What I would do is a single data point. What happen on average is what we want to look at. The number seems to be moving in the right direction btw. The more recent studies have shown less bias.

So what's your data point?  

[Canton Dawg]

15 hours ago, cccjwh said:

https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-who-whiten-job-resumes-get-more-interviews

http://www-2.rotman.utoronto.ca/facbios/file/Whitening MS R2 Accepted.pdf

In one study, the researchers created resumes for black and Asian applicants and sent them out for 1,600 entry-level jobs posted on job search websites in 16 metropolitan sections of the United States. Some of the resumes included information that clearly pointed out the applicants’ minority status, while others were whitened, or scrubbed of racial clues. The researchers then created email accounts and phone numbers for the applicants and observed how many were invited for interviews.

Employer callbacks for resumes that were whitened fared much better in the application pile than those that included ethnic information, even though the qualifications listed were identical. Twenty-five percent of black candidates received callbacks from their whitened resumes, while only 10 percent got calls when they left ethnic details intact. Among Asians, 21 percent got calls if they used whitened resumes, whereas only 11.5 percent heard back if they sent resumes with racial references.

 

Cool story...now do the NBA.

[cccjwh]

10 hours ago, htownbrown said:

So what's your data point?  

I would hire the person I thought would do the job best. 

[htownbrown]

1 hour ago, cccjwh said:

I would hire the person I thought would do the job best. 

Yeah, Ok.  I'm sure a racist would say the same thing if he was asked that question.

Care to expand, since you didn't really answer anything?

[cccjwh]

17 minutes ago, htownbrown said:

Yeah, Ok.  I'm sure a racist would say the same thing if he was asked that question.

Care to expand, since you didn't really answer anything?

Do I see someone membership in a "very specific racial club" as a negative? No, just another club. Pretty sure the Klan isn't a club in college anymore.