Frightened teachers

[Westside Steve]

First of all just an observation. I think there's a percentage of folks in many occupations who will choose the path of least resistance. Given the opportunity to pretend they are too scared to go back to work especially if they're getting paid anyway to just sit around the house. But this could turn out to be a good thing for education. And tearing down traditions in America is a good thing right?

Let's say that people in the teachers union are truly too scared to go back to work and that by golly online education will be just fine.

(Hard to imagine your job could be made much easier but I guess sitting at home in front of a computer for a couple hours is even easier than dragging your ass to the classroom for 2/3 of the year. )

So if online education works great. I have no doubt there could be plenty of competing online education companies (no doubt there already are) springing up within the United States that thousands of family's could log on to rather than dozens, for each local school district. And signing up for one of these nationally syndicated programs should cost each family a hell of a lot less than whatever property taxpayers are getting gouged out of. So lots more money into the pocket of the citizens providing a huge boost to the economy along with a more comprehensive and uniform course of study. Like TV classes in college study pods could be hosted online by non Union assistants.   That and breaking the Stranglehold of the teachers union sounds like it could be a win-win situation. Also it would give all the people in fear for their lives even more reason to self quarantine for the next four years.

 Thoughts?

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Generations of shell shocked, anti social fat people.

[hammertime]

It always thrills me to see a 2nd grade teacher pulling in over 100,000.00 while I bust my tail year round for about the same...

Now there scared?  Is there no end to it all?

-$$$$ that’s how you end it.

[Canton Dawg]

Good point Steve, not to mention the fact the taxpayers won’t have to pay for the upkeep of thousands of buildings.

Or will they just reallocate the funds into some other account?

Heaven forbid the taxes should decrease.

[MLD Woody]

It amazes me how some people could be so anti teacher and just ignorant of the whole process...

 

And you keep pushing the "scared" thing as some attempt at a masculine play on Covid. Alright. Whether this, masks, etc. Just strange

 

 

A bunch of kids moving to an online only education would be a terrible thing for America and push us further behind the rest of the world in education. 

[Kvoethe]

Steve..you wouldnt last 2 weeks in a classroom.  100k?  Because they work extra jobs or work in some crazy rich district.  Your average teacher in ohio makes 35k

https://www.google.com/search?q=average+ohio+teacher+salary&oq=average+ohio&aqs=chrome.1.0l2j69i57j0l2.6784j0j4&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Online teaching might work in a short term pinch..but long term..no way.  Kids just arent self motivated or value learning.  A majority of parents are non existent when it comes to raising their children.  Does it work for incels and kids with anxiety or agoraphibia or medical issues?  Sure. But for todays tick tok teen..NO WAY.

In foreign countries teachers are praised..in the US...they are pariahs.  I dont understand it.

[Westside Steve]

15 minutes ago, MLD Woody said:

It amazes me how some people could be so anti teacher and just ignorant of the whole process...

 

And you keep pushing the "scared" thing as some attempt at a masculine play on Covid. Alright. Whether this, masks, etc. Just strange

 not strange that the Woodpecker misses the point.

 

 

A bunch of kids moving to an online only education would be a terrible thing for America and push us further behind the rest of the world in education. 

 yes it certainly would.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

13 minutes ago, Kvoethe said:

Steve..you wouldnt last 2 weeks in a classroom.  100k?  Because they work extra jobs or work in some crazy rich district.  Your average teacher in ohio makes 35k

 nope. That might be the average starting salary. 100 k must be from somewhere else.

https://www.google.com/search?q=average+ohio+teacher+salary&oq=average+ohio&aqs=chrome.1.0l2j69i57j0l2.6784j0j4&client=ms-android-samsung-ss&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

Online teaching might work in a short term pinch..but long term..no way.  Kids just arent self motivated or value learning.  A majority of parents are non existent when it comes to raising their children.  Does it work for incels and kids with anxiety or agoraphibia or medical issues?  Sure. But for todays tick tok teen..NO WAY.

In foreign countries teachers are praised..in the US...they are pariahs.  I dont understand it.

 Actually my minor in college with secondary Ed.

 And education in foreign countries is more valuable apparently. I'd be surprised if teachers in India we're getting paid the equivalent of 60 k. And you hit it on the head with the Tik Tok generation. Foreigners seem to work a lot harder than Americans as well.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

 

[calfoxwc]

Now, my Wife started out teaching in a Catholic school...she isn't catholic, but was so highly regarded...

they don't make as much money for sure. She went to the public school system. You get tenure and a master's degree, well,

I have had a great career as a corporate business/analyst, programmer/analyst, especially as a consultant - and she always made more money that I did. Which, I was always happy that she did. lol

Teachers work very hard. My Wife taught spec ed in hs, and was very, very highly regarded by students and faculty alike -

she never said that, but they did. lol

Come IEP time, and it was so much work, I helped. Papers arranged all over our living room floor, I'd help grade.

Growing up, some of my teachers were  world class great. Some of them sucked, they were hostile and incompetent.

The bad ones shouldn't have been teachers, but they wanted those summers off - the starting pay wasn't all that great.

The great ones inspired the class, especially me, and that is when I got my "A's". Bad teacher? "c". minus.

I was an ornery comedian child.

[MLD Woody]

1 hour ago, Kvoethe said:

 

In foreign countries teachers are praised..in the US...they are pariahs.  I dont understand it.

 

For some reason a large portion of this country has a major anti-academics belief. 

Great teachers produce educated students. Educated students become educated adults. Educated adults make society better. 

 

It amazes me when people don't vote for school levies because they don't have kids or some shit. A school is foundational to everything around you. Support it. 

[Kvoethe]

Teaching is going the same was as coaching...hard to find coaches because the parents make it miserable.  Not worth the extra $$.  There is going to be a teacher shortage because its a hot mess. Have to teach 35 yrs to make a horrible insurance poor retirement. 

[D Bone]

38 minutes ago, Kvoethe said:

Teaching is going the same was as coaching...hard to find coaches because the parents make it miserable.  Not worth the extra $$.  There is going to be a teacher shortage because its a hot mess. Have to teach 35 yrs to make a horrible insurance poor retirement. 

I'm a public high school softball coach - or at least I used to be before the Zombie Apocalypse.

My girls and I have a great relationship, due to me always being honest with them and holding them accountable and making them earn their playing time. I don't teach at the school, I just roll in at 2:20pm starting in February and do my job. I obviously know a lot of the teachers and the stories they tell me make me sick. 

I have had my share of parents complain that their perfect little sunshine isn't getting the play time that she deserves, but a quick look at my note book on practice participation, followed by them actually watching practice to see how their stud actually matches up to her teammates always ends the complaints right then and there......

This isn't Little League where everyone makes the team, is guaranteed playing time and gets handed a 5th place trophy for finishing 5th in a 5 team division (3 guesses as to why I used such a specific example) 

I feel sorry for our teachers as there are a lot of good ones out there who are fighting a losing battle with the complete and total lack of quality parenting today combined with the liberal "everyone do what makes you feel good" way of life..... just look at Seattle. 

[hammertime]

1 hour ago, MLD Woody said:

 

For some reason a large portion of this country has a major anti-academics belief. 

Great teachers produce educated students. Educated students become educated adults. Educated adults make society better. 

 

It amazes me when people don't vote for school levies because they don't have kids or some shit. A school is foundational to everything around you. Support it. 

It’s unconstitutional to fund schools with a property tax.

teachers get a bad rap due to a few idiots.

the idiot count is on the rise, by a lot.

[Westside Steve]

Look woodpecker, nobody is anti teachers. A lot of us I would imagine most of us have got problems with the teachers union. All I'm saying is we shouldn't put them on a pedestal. I would challenge everybody here to look back on your teachers and school and tell me how many of them were great actual life-changing individuals. One? Two? Now how many can you remember that were assholes that actually impeded the learning process? One? Two? And the rest of them I will assume we're just fine okay. Didn't do any harm didn't really Inspire anybody cut the shit that needed to be taught to the kids that were ready to learn it. I would bet that every guy on this board could teach most subjects if given maybe a one month training course and familiarization with the curriculum. A curriculum by the way that pretty much stays the same year after year after year.

But if teachers and students are doing well in third world shitholes is because it's a way out. Here most kids even the poor ones live like kings compared to those third world shitholes. And regardless of who the teacher is in the classroom kids will probably be about as successful as their parents and those around them. Exceptions to the rule? No Doubt. But I contend if you switch the teachers from JFK to the teachers in Hudson you're going to get about the same results.

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Plus why would anybody think that the teacher running the online classes for a hundred thousand kids from some Nationwide teaching site wouldn't be a great teacher? At least as good as the hundreds they would be replacing?

WSS

[htownbrown]

The reason teachers and administrators in Texas take so much bullshit from parents, is directly linked to the STAAR test.  To put it bluntly, it's a joke.

If you're a go getter and care about your GPA, then you'll do fine one way or the other, but if these kids don't give a shit the STAAR test offers the perfect cover for them and their teachers.  You can practically mail it in all year, as long as you pass that test you're likely moving on.

So the real teaching begins right before the test comes.  In other words, they teach you how to pass the test and not much else.  That's all they care about.

 

"The whole firestorm was sparked by student statements and questionable test scores. Education Week reported that the youngsters “suggested the teachers provided improper assistance to them” on their STAAR tests, although the teachers countered that the students were confused getting help on the STAAR practice.

Reed also said, “Testing helps us measure the degree to which students are learning, and HISD will remain vigilant in its efforts to ensure that the integrity of the state’s testing process is not compromised.”

Testing is the benchmark, although not everyone is a fan of it anymore as witnessed by the increasing “opting-out” of this kind of intense or “high-stakes” testing.  It has been spurned on by a growing resentment that too much emphasis  and worth is placed on the tests for student accountability and teacher evaluations. The tests also take away from classroom learning time.

Proponents believe the tests are a viable snapshot to justify taxpayer dollars that fund the public schools as they show a measure of successes, failures and areas for improvement. Opponents feel that this kind of testing breeds a pressure cooker style of learning, fostering a “teach to the test” environment where no one learns anything other than how to take a test. Furthermore, educators are saddled under the scrutiny of delivering high test scores that are tied to their job performance indices."

[hoorta]

13 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

 Actually my minor in college with secondary Ed.

 And education in foreign countries is more valuable apparently. I'd be surprised if teachers in India we're getting paid the equivalent of 60 k. And you hit it on the head with the Tik Tok generation. Foreigners seem to work a lot harder than Americans as well.

Steve- from my medical perspective...  That's not bad money for 9 months of work. No holidays, no weekends. The inner city teachers do deserve bonuses for combat duty.... 

But when I had a regular job- it did piss me off one of the teachers in the Cycling Club had the entire summer off to do months long bike adventures to where ever....  

[Westside Steve]

4 hours ago, hoorta said:

Steve- from my medical perspective...  That's not bad money for 9 months of work. No holidays, no weekends. The inner city teachers do deserve bonuses for combat duty.... 

lots of people work in the Inner City and yes it's dangerous. But unless things have changed drastically inner city schools suck because the fuckers just don't show up. Armed guards to protect the teachers from the scum wouldn't hurt. Seriously how much is an extra fifty bucks a day worth if a ghetto rat Cuts your throat?

But when I had a regular job- it did piss me off one of the teachers in the Cycling Club had the entire summer off to do months long bike adventures to where ever....  

Exactly. I graduated high school in 1970 and teaching was a big field of study for that particular group of Boomers. It is somewhat annoying to see my classmates having now been retired for 10 plus years sponging off the taxpayers nickel. 

WSS

[MLD Woody]

9 hours ago, htownbrown said:

The reason teachers and administrators in Texas take so much bullshit from parents, is directly linked to the STAAR test.  To put it bluntly, it's a joke.

If you're a go getter and care about your GPA, then you'll do fine one way or the other, but if these kids don't give a shit the STAAR test offers the perfect cover for them and their teachers.  You can practically mail it in all year, as long as you pass that test you're likely moving on.

So the real teaching begins right before the test comes.  In other words, they teach you how to pass the test and not much else.  That's all they care about.

 

"The whole firestorm was sparked by student statements and questionable test scores. Education Week reported that the youngsters “suggested the teachers provided improper assistance to them” on their STAAR tests, although the teachers countered that the students were confused getting help on the STAAR practice.

Reed also said, “Testing helps us measure the degree to which students are learning, and HISD will remain vigilant in its efforts to ensure that the integrity of the state’s testing process is not compromised.”

Testing is the benchmark, although not everyone is a fan of it anymore as witnessed by the increasing “opting-out” of this kind of intense or “high-stakes” testing.  It has been spurned on by a growing resentment that too much emphasis  and worth is placed on the tests for student accountability and teacher evaluations. The tests also take away from classroom learning time.

Proponents believe the tests are a viable snapshot to justify taxpayer dollars that fund the public schools as they show a measure of successes, failures and areas for improvement. Opponents feel that this kind of testing breeds a pressure cooker style of learning, fostering a “teach to the test” environment where no one learns anything other than how to take a test. Furthermore, educators are saddled under the scrutiny of delivering high test scores that are tied to their job performance indices."

 

That sounds like the Achievement Tests and OGTs in Ohio. There could definitely be an argument made that there were too many standardized tests and too high of an emphasis put on them. Some were more critical than others, like the OGT. I do remember taking class time to prep for the test. I think school funding was tied to the results. There was an effort by the school to get the "smart" kids to try so that the results could be higher. 

Personally, I took a TON of standardized tests in school. The ones above, PSATs starting in 7th, special math ones, etc. It gets to the point where test taking in itself is a skill, though that's basically worthless in the real world. 

[calfoxwc]

in education, one size doesn't fit all. The standardized tests given in all schools - were a huge problem.

High schools with big successful special ed programs suffered. why? because some of the LD kids couldn't read - they had to

have the test read to them. Some just couldn't remember long enough to pass the test. And, obviously, parents of special ed kids had their kids to to the good program schools. and the standardized tests lowered their results.

https://connectusfund.org/14-crucial-pros-and-cons-of-the-no-child-left-behind-act

teaching to the test. What a farce - a lot of regular kids learn differently. Some learn by reading, some by doing...what liberals do ends up resulting in the exact opposite of what they say they intended.

Throwing a gigantic political net over a problem doesn't fix the problem - it causes problems.

Bush and Ted Kennedy got together for that fiasco. Political.

Before the Air Force, I was in secondary education - I knew kids who were more like Jerry Rubin or Jane Fonda that future great teachers. Some surely became great teachers.

It's the human condition - it applies to doctors, lawyers, you name it.

There is no antagonism toward academia. No disrespect to teachers that I've ever witnessed. No liberal victimization.

There IS toward the BEHAVIOR of some teachers, etc.

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]