NFL Rebranding Survey for my School Research Project

[Apereg11]

Hello NFL fans! I’m Adrien Peregoff, a senior at Glenelg High School in central Maryland. This year, I enrolled in a mentorship class where the goal of the course is to create an original synthesis paper on a topic of your choosing. Being heavily interested in all aspects of the NFL, I chose to research how the on-field team performance of a recently rebranded NFL team affects fan acceptance of the rebrand. For the data collection portion of my study, I’ve created a survey for fans of NFL teams that have recently rebranded. Since you are a fan of a team I’ve chosen to observe, I kindly ask if you would take the time to complete this survey. All you have to do to complete the survey is click the link below, answer all the questions to the best of your ability, and then press the submit button at the bottom of the page. Your help is greatly appreciated!

Link: https://forms.gle/35CesaLdg4JYWDiq5

[The Gipper]

22 minutes ago, Apereg11 said:

Hello NFL fans! I’m Adrien Peregoff, a senior at Glenelg High School in central Maryland. This year, I enrolled in a mentorship class where the goal of the course is to create an original synthesis paper on a topic of your choosing. Being heavily interested in all aspects of the NFL, I chose to research how the on-field team performance of a recently rebranded NFL team affects fan acceptance of the rebrand. For the data collection portion of my study, I’ve created a survey for fans of NFL teams that have recently rebranded. Since you are a fan of a team I’ve chosen to observe, I kindly ask if you would take the time to complete this survey. All you have to do to complete the survey is click the link below, answer all the questions to the best of your ability, and then press the submit button at the bottom of the page. Your help is greatly appreciated!

Link: https://forms.gle/35CesaLdg4JYWDiq5

What do you mean by "rebranded"?  Other than some tweeks in changing uniforms recently, there  has been no real rebranding of the Browns since like 1946. 

Your survey mentions that they added some players....but that is not rebranding....that is normal NFL operations. Every team has a draft every year;  every team makes a few trades; every team picks up a few Free Agents.  As for the uniforms, they basically went back to their old style.  They didn't change their name, or their colors...or anything I would associate with "rebranding".  They didn't move, they didn't change their name. 

[The Gipper]

From your questionnaire:

San Diego/ Los Angeles Chargers (2017-2020): Relocating to Los Angeles from San Diego, moving into Sofi Stadium from Dignity Health Sports Park, transitioning from Phillip Rivers to Justin Herbert at quarterback, changing uniforms

Washington Redskins/ Football Team (2019-2020): Hiring Ron Rivera as head coach, changing team name from the Redskins to Football Team, changing logos and uniforms

St.Louis/ Los Angeles Rams (2016-2020): Moving from St. Louis to Los Angeles, drafting Jared Goff at quarterback, hiring Sean McVay as head coach, changing uniforms and logo, moving into Sofi Stadium from the LA Coliseum.

OK....the above ARE "rebranding" clearly.  Changing cities/changing names. 

The following is not:  

Cleveland Browns (2018-2020): Drafting Baker Mayfield at quarterback, signing Jarvis Landry at wide receiver, trading for Odell Beckam Jr. at wide receiver, changing uniforms.

Like I said above...personell changes every year.  Uniforms are tweaked all the time. 

So...my comments ARE intended to help as you asked.  I think it is most helpful to define the parameters of your study.   

[Ibleedbrown]

I participated. I wasn’t quite sure l followed the definition of “rebranding” either, but l gathered you just needed answers for pre 2018 and then 2018 and on.

[Apereg11]

In my research paper I have the ability to define "rebranding" as practically whatever I want considering I'm the one conducting the experiment. I'm not just thinking about team name, location, and uniform changes as rebranding, but rather the identity of a team as a whole. The personality and attitude that a team portrays is what fans cling to the most when choosing their fandom. During the 21st century and practically for their entire existence, the Browns have been perennial losers. Through the heartbreaking playoff loses in the 80's to the constant QB carousel, the Browns have been the epitome of failure and that attitude has been reflected to the public. With the changes to the team listed in my survey, I pointed out the steps that the Browns have taken to reverse their misfortunes and change the public's view of the franchise as a whole. That's why I said that the Browns have "rebranded" since 2018. Let me know if there are any mistakes in my logic (I am a Ravens fan after all), and thank you in advance for those who participate in research process. 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

4 minutes ago, Apereg11 said:

(I am a Ravens fan after all),

Get out of here.

[Nero]

36 minutes ago, Apereg11 said:

(I am a Ravens fan after all)

Famous last words. 

[The Gipper]

2 hours ago, Apereg11 said:

In my research paper I have the ability to define "rebranding" as practically whatever I want considering I'm the one conducting the experiment. I'm not just thinking about team name, location, and uniform changes as rebranding, but rather the identity of a team as a whole. The personality and attitude that a team portrays is what fans cling to the most when choosing their fandom. During the 21st century and practically for their entire existence, the Browns have been perennial losers. Through the heartbreaking playoff loses in the 80's to the constant QB carousel, the Browns have been the epitome of failure and that attitude has been reflected to the public. With the changes to the team listed in my survey, I pointed out the steps that the Browns have taken to reverse their misfortunes and change the public's view of the franchise as a whole. That's why I said that the Browns have "rebranded" since 2018. Let me know if there are any mistakes in my logic (I am a Ravens fan after all), and thank you in advance for those who participate in research process. 

Yeah I think there may be some mistakes in your logic. Just because a team goes from winners to losers or from losers to winners does not mean a team has been rebranded it just means that their current fortunes are either up or down. OK. And in case you didn’t know some of us go back with the team longer than that. And we havePerceptions of our team that are much longer than just these past years. And here’s a clue for you. Only two teams in the entire NFL have one more championships than the Browns. That would be the Packers and the Bears. So it may be your survey but it is our team and we the fans of that team more than you get to set the identity of it. 

[Gunz41]

Gipper, be nice to the little fella, he is after all a high schooler.

2 hours ago, Apereg11 said:

In my research paper I have the ability to define "rebranding" as practically whatever I want considering I'm the one conducting the experiment. I'm not just thinking about team name, location, and uniform changes as rebranding, but rather the identity of a team as a whole. The personality and attitude that a team portrays is what fans cling to the most when choosing their fandom. During the 21st century and practically for their entire existence, the Browns have been perennial losers. Through the heartbreaking playoff loses in the 80's to the constant QB carousel, the Browns have been the epitome of failure and that attitude has been reflected to the public. With the changes to the team listed in my survey, I pointed out the steps that the Browns have taken to reverse their misfortunes and change the public's view of the franchise as a whole. That's why I said that the Browns have "rebranded" since 2018. Let me know if there are any mistakes in my logic (I am a Ravens fan after all), and thank you in advance for those who participate in research process. 

Now young man, you are so flawed in your assessment of perennial losers. 8 championships in their history. Now, if you wanted to use since 99 when they came back then yes, but you made sure to speak of the 80s.

And for even more evidence for you:

All time record of 522-504-14

Playoff Record 16-20

Winning Seasons 37

Playoff Seasons 28

 

[The Gipper]

Here is another fact about the identity of the Cleveland Browns, Sonny Jim:

The greatest dynasty in the history of Professional Football?  Not the Patriots, not the 49ers, not the Cowboys, not the Steelers, not the Packers, not the Bears:     None other than the Cleveland Browns.   They played in 10 consecutive Championship games.....and in 11 of 12,  winning 7.   

No team has come close to matching that record for sustained success.   That was the late 40s and 50s.   And FYI, the Browns also played in 4 "NFL Championship Games"  in the 60s..though they only won 1 of the 4.   Still, that made it  15 Championship game appearances in 25 years. To put it in terms you may understand:  for the Pats to come close to matching  that, they would need to appear in the next 6 Super Bowls when going back to 2001.

So...in fact of the matter, their period of sustained excellence lasted longer than the recent shit show has.  And lets not forget who was the producer/director of the shit show:  Arthur B. Modell  who the fucking idjits in Baltimore revere, even though  even after receiving a 75 million dollar cash bribe could not do a thing, and was  forced  out of the league by the NFL  and  to sell his next franchise (the Ravens)  before the banks foreclosed on it.

[Gunz41]

33 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Here is another fact about the identity of the Cleveland Browns, Sonny Jim:

The greatest dynasty in the history of Professional Football?  Not the Patriots, not the 49ers, not the Cowboys, not the Steelers, not the Packers, not the Bears:     None other than the Cleveland Browns.   They played in 10 consecutive Championship games.....and in 11 of 12,  winning 7.   

No team has come close to matching that record for sustained success.   That was the late 40s and 50s.   And FYI, the Browns also played in 4 "NFL Championship Games"  in the 60s..though they only won 1 of the 4.   Still, that made it  15 Championship game appearances in 25 years. To put it in terms you may understand:  for the Pats to come close to matching  that, they would need to appear in the next 6 Super Bowls when going back to 2001.

So...in fact of the matter, their period of sustained excellence lasted longer than the recent shit show has.  And lets not forget who was the producer/director of the shit show:  Arthur B. Modell  who the fucking idjits in Baltimore revere, even though  even after receiving a 75 million dollar cash bribe could not do a thing, and was  forced  out of the league by the NFL  and  to sell his next franchise (the Ravens)  before the banks foreclosed on it.

Let's give him a little credit, maybe he wants to compare the Cleveland Browns to the entire history of Baltimore.

Cleveland Browns 8 championships, Baltimore 7. 

Oops, that can't be it.

Hmm???

Ahh I got it now... Buccaneers, Seahawks, Jets, Saints, Vikings, and Ravens TOTAL is 7. Shoot, we were so close. 

Heck I give up. Here are the Top 5 championships by team.

1. Green Bay- 13

2. Chicago- 9 (one year as Staleys)

3. Cleveland- 8

3. NY Giants- 8

5. New England-6 

5. Pittsburgh- 6

 

So again @Apereg11, tell us again how the Browns have ALWAYS been perennial losers?

 

 

[The Gipper]

16 minutes ago, Gunz41 said:

Let's give him a little credit, maybe he wants to compare the Cleveland Browns to the entire history of Baltimore.

Cleveland Browns 8 championships, Baltimore 7. 

Oops, that can't be it.

Hmm???

Ahh I got it now... Buccaneers, Seahawks, Jets, Saints, Vikings, and Ravens TOTAL is 7. Shoot, we were so close. 

Heck I give up. Here are the Top 5 championships by team.

1. Green Bay- 13

2. Chicago- 9 (one year as Staleys)

3. Cleveland- 8

3. NY Giants- 8

5. New England-6 

5. Pittsburgh- 6

 

So again @Apereg11, tell us again how the Browns have ALWAYS been perennial losers?

 

 

Well...if you are going to compare cities....then you have to include the other 5 NFL titles won by teams in Northeast Ohio/Greater Cleveland.  

That means that  Cleveland and Green Bay are tied for the most Pro Football Championships in history with 13...it just that theirs has been by only one team where we have had  5 different teams.  

And, again, if we are talking about City titles......New England would have 7 including the one won by Providence.   New York 9 including the Giants 8 and the Jets one.   Chicago has 11 including the Bears 9 and the Cardinals 2. 

Other cities with multiple teams winning titles:

Philadelphia: Yellow Jackets and Eagles

Baltimore:  Colts and Ravens

Dallas:  Texans and Cowboys.

Los Angeles:  Rams and Raiders

SFO/Oakland:   49ers and Raiders

All this may not fit into  what the kid wants for his survey.....nevertheless, it sounded like he needed a football history lesson. 

[Tour2ma]

Hope things are going better for the kid in other teams' forums...

[The Gipper]

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Hope things are going better for the kid in other teams' forums...

Well....as I said,  I just think he got some of his premises  wrong.    Just because a team gets some new players or a new coach is NOT to me a rebranding.  Nor is going from winning to losing and vice versa.  Nor is having some slight changes in uniform design.

Dropping your name.....ala  Redskins to WTF or WFT...that counts

Moving.....like the Chargers/Rams/Raiders   (Not sure why he did not include the Raiders on his list)....those count.

Moving/changing your name/changing your colors out right....like the Houston Oiler/Tennessee Titans, certainly counts. (I know I am going back there). 

And saying the Browns have been perennial losers their entire existence just required  a   woodshed-like lesson to be applied. 

[Apereg11]

Look guys I'm sorry for offending your beloved Browns, but I was just trying to clarify why I considered the past few years a rebrand for Cleveland. You all have the right to your own opinions, but so do I, and thankfully you guys aren't the ones grading my synthesis paper. I'm willing to put AFC North differences aside here and just ask a fellow human for some help with my research project. The survey only takes about 30 seconds to complete, so please consider taking some time out of your day to fill it out. Thank you again.

[Apereg11]

49 minutes ago, Tour2ma said:

Hope things are going better for the kid in other teams' forums...

And yes, numerous fans of the Washington Football Team were more than willing to fill out my survey.

[The Gipper]

31 minutes ago, Apereg11 said:

Look guys I'm sorry for offending your beloved Browns, but I was just trying to clarify why I considered the past few years a rebrand for Cleveland. You all have the right to your own opinions, but so do I, and thankfully you guys aren't the ones grading my synthesis paper. I'm willing to put AFC North differences aside here and just ask a fellow human for some help with my research project. The survey only takes about 30 seconds to complete, so please consider taking some time out of your day to fill it out. Thank you again.

It is not a matter of being offensive. It is a matter of being misinformed.  There are  piss poor opinions, there are neutral opinions, and there are learned opinions.   Yours was NOT a learned opinion.  But its not that it was totally piss poor....we know how bad the Browns have been during the tenure of your short life.  What was piss poor was your statement that the Browns have been perennial losers for their entire existence.  That opinion was based on pure ignorance of the facts.  (the benign kind of ignorance...in that you probably just did not know their history....fair to say?).   

And, indeed you are partially wrong when you say that we are not the ones grading your paper.  When you involve the public for input....you also request  their assessment of what you are doing,   wrong and right , along with everything else.   You can ask your teacher....the commentary about your survey is as much or more important of a part of your study as the 1-5 questions you ask.   I personally disagree, again, with your characterization of "my team"  as being a "rebranded" team, per your definition. But you do not account for that, and I believe you must.   I think...and I think your teacher would think that if there is input made to you that your premises may flawed.....or if there was some other disputable  contention about your survey that you elicited from the public, that must be included as a part of your study. 

Example of a bad sort of poll :  (and I provide this to you as a political scientist).....Your poll is not much different from a political poll.  If there are flaws in the subject...if you make assumptions that you shouldn't, it could be garbage in, garbage out.   Like the 2016  Presidential polls.  While those were not far off as the entire country is concerned,  there were certain local/state issues with the polling that caused them  to be all wrong. 

So, you see the importance of certain contrary input. 

[The Gipper]

32 minutes ago, Apereg11 said:

And yes, numerous fans of the Washington Football Team were more than willing to fill out my survey.

Well, they truly are a team that has undergone a "rebranding". 

[Zombo]

The little bastard is a Ravens fan? I'm sorry I filled out the survey.

Zombo

[Gunz41]

11 hours ago, The Gipper said:

Well...if you are going to compare cities....then you have to include the other 5 NFL titles won by teams in Northeast Ohio/Greater Cleveland.  

That means that  Cleveland and Green Bay are tied for the most Pro Football Championships in history with 13...it just that theirs has been by only one team where we have had  5 different teams.  

And, again, if we are talking about City titles......New England would have 7 including the one won by Providence.   New York 9 including the Giants 8 and the Jets one.   Chicago has 11 including the Bears 9 and the Cardinals 2. 

Other cities with multiple teams winning titles:

Philadelphia: Yellow Jackets and Eagles

Baltimore:  Colts and Ravens

Dallas:  Texans and Cowboys.

Los Angeles:  Rams and Raiders

SFO/Oakland:   49ers and Raiders

All this may not fit into  what the kid wants for his survey.....nevertheless, it sounded like he needed a football history lesson. 

I think the rub i was trying to point to for the "high schooler" went over your head. I wasn't trying to compare cities, only used Baltimore to prove a point since he referred to Browns as perennial losers. 

So his entire city pro football history would be more of a loser. Its the reason I added 6 franchises up and they didn't reach the level of the BROWNS. 

[The Gipper]

1 minute ago, Gunz41 said:

I think the rub i was trying to point to for the "high schooler" went over your head. I wasn't trying to compare cities, only used Baltimore to prove a point since he referred to Browns as perennial losers. 

So his entire city pro football history would be more of a loser. Its the reason I added 6 franchises up and they didn't reach the level of the BROWNS. 

No, your point didn't go over my head......I just took your references as an opportunity to further educate the kid on some historical points. 

[Apereg11]

One last time I just ask as a fellow human if any of you would be willing to help me out and fill out my survey (5-10 more responses would be ideal). This whole thing wasn't meant to be an attack on the Browns in any way. I know it's not often that a Ravens fan appears on a Browns fan page, so I know obliterating me with facts must have been tempting and enjoyable. This is a lot to ask for, but if there's any way that the few people who filled out the survey can share it with close friends or family, that would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all again and I wish you all the best of luck on Monday night against Baltimore, it's gonna be a good one. 

[Gunz41]

10 hours ago, Apereg11 said:

Look guys I'm sorry for offending your beloved Browns, but I was just trying to clarify why I considered the past few years a rebrand for Cleveland. You all have the right to your own opinions, but so do I, and thankfully you guys aren't the ones grading my synthesis paper. I'm willing to put AFC North differences aside here and just ask a fellow human for some help with my research project. The survey only takes about 30 seconds to complete, so please consider taking some time out of your day to fill it out. Thank you again.

You see young man, like I said before, YOU are the one who changed your criteria. You 1st just went with your statement of rebranding. And as you said, that for your purposes can be defined by you.

But then you went to calling the Browns perennial losers. If you had simply quantified that as being from the resumption in 1999 then you would not have gotten the responses you did. But when YOU entered into data the 80s, then you open that up to the entire history. 

So would you quantify an organization with 8 titles as a perennial loser? Now, if I were you, you better hope that your teacher doesn't have the knowledge or does the research to quantify what a perennial loser is. Because then you would be starting on a false premise.

And speaking of, wouldn't your premise of a rebranding be a bit premature anyway? Because just a couple years ago by your original thought would have been bestowed upon the Jaguars. And look at them now. 

[Zombo]

28 minutes ago, Apereg11 said:

One last time I just ask as a fellow human if any of you would be willing to help me out and fill out my survey (5-10 more responses would be ideal). This whole thing wasn't meant to be an attack on the Browns in any way. I know it's not often that a Ravens fan appears on a Browns fan page, so I know obliterating me with facts must have been tempting and enjoyable. This is a lot to ask for, but if there's any way that the few people who filled out the survey can share it with close friends or family, that would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all again and I wish you all the best of luck on Monday night against Baltimore, it's gonna be a good one. 

It won't be a "good one" for you, you little history-denying Ratbird Bastard, I hope no one else fills out your gay survey.

Z

[Apereg11]

1 hour ago, Gunz41 said:

You see young man, like I said before, YOU are the one who changed your criteria. You 1st just went with your statement of rebranding. And as you said, that for your purposes can be defined by you.

But then you went to calling the Browns perennial losers. If you had simply quantified that as being from the resumption in 1999 then you would not have gotten the responses you did. But when YOU entered into data the 80s, then you open that up to the entire history. 

So would you quantify an organization with 8 titles as a perennial loser? Now, if I were you, you better hope that your teacher doesn't have the knowledge or does the research to quantify what a perennial loser is. Because then you would be starting on a false premise.

And speaking of, wouldn't your premise of a rebranding be a bit premature anyway? Because just a couple years ago by your original thought would have been bestowed upon the Jaguars. And look at them now. 

I'll be a man here and admit I was wrong. I shouldn't have included the 80's playoff loses in my original explanation. I understand that the rebooted Browns of '99 are a completely different organization than the one that moved to Baltimore in '96. I also want all of you to know that I'm not including the background of each team in my synthesis paper, so your beloved Browns reputation won't be tarnished.

I should have also mentioned that with my definition of a rebrand, I view the 2014 Browns as also having rebranded. The 2018 point that I clarified in my survey was an attempt for the Browns (yet again in my eyes) to reverse their reputation because they knew they had a lot of young talent and a new reputable coaching staff. 

In regard to the Jags, their recent rebrand was the opposite of what I view the Browns rebrand to be. The Jags are going from a defensive minded Super Bowl contender to a rebuilding team who's only real identity is looking forward to the future where as the Browns are going from an unsuccessful team (in the 21st century) to one that looks to be a contender for years to come with loaded young talent.

[Apereg11]

40 minutes ago, Zombo said:

It won't be a "good one" for you, you little history-denying Ratbird Bastard, I hope no one else fills out your gay survey.

Z

Do you feel accomplished for attacking a child? At least the rest of the people here have the dignity to correct me with facts and offer suggestions for my survey. I don't understand how an adult can feel dignified by saying that.

[calfoxwc]

1 hour ago, Apereg11 said:

Do you feel accomplished for attacking a child? At least the rest of the people here have the dignity to correct me with facts and offer suggestions for my survey. I don't understand how an adult can feel dignified by saying that.

yes, you are childish and insulting. In the past, we've met a few ratbird fans at a tailgate - a few years ago - and they

were great guys.

   You, not so much.  I kick squealer and ratbird players off my fantasy football teams, if the computer picked them for me when I was out of town, don't care about your survey...but don't you have 9th grade homework to do?

[Apereg11]

25 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

yes, you are childish and insulting. In the past, we've met a few ratbird fans at a tailgate - a few years ago - and they

were great guys.

   You, not so much.  I kick squealer and ratbird players off my fantasy football teams, if the computer picked them for me when I was out of town, don't care about your survey...but don't you have 9th grade homework to do?

Can you name a time where I was childish and insulting? I was the one who has been man enough to admit I was wrong about the Browns' history and ask for forgiveness. Also I'm a senior taking all college classes, and this is technically part of my homework. 

[TexasAg1969]

15 minutes ago, Apereg11 said:

Can you name a time where I was childish and insulting? I was the one who has been man enough to admit I was wrong about the Browns' history and ask for forgiveness. Also I'm a senior taking all college classes, and this is technically part of my homework. 

Just look at this as a bunch of old men yelling, "Hey kid, get off my damn lawn!"😂

Smile and keep working hard in school.😁

[calfoxwc]

25 minutes ago, Apereg11 said:

Can you name a time where I was childish and insulting? I was the one who has been man enough to admit I was wrong about the Browns' history and ask for forgiveness. Also I'm a senior taking all college classes, and this is technically part of my homework. 

1. "perennial losers"

Coming a ratbird fan, this is smack, and deserves to be treated as such.

***************************************************************************

2. "recently rebranded"

"Often, this involves radical changes to a brand's logo, name, legal names, image, marketing strategy, and advertising themes. Such changes typically aim to reposition the brand/company, occasionally to distance itself from negative connotations of the previous branding, or to move the brand upmarket; they may also communicate a new message a new board of directors wishes to communicate."

  We KEPT our logo, we KEPT our name, we KEPT our history. and marketing and advertising isn't all that different across the NFL I don't think. Don't misuse words, that is what I think. It helps dramatically in communication with other people.

***************************************************************************

So, you're a senior, cool. You aren't a child then. Don't use the "child" victim card.

When you graduate, here's my advice, btw, don't go to Ft. Lauderdale - we decided to go take a two week trip to central Ontario, to the end of the highway, to the end of a 6 mile jeep trail, and camped for two weeks on the other side of a remote wilderness lake. You can talk about it in your later years, and be very proud you didn't get in trouble partying in Florida.