The Gipper Posted January 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 12 hours ago, Tour2ma said: When I find someone who is smarter at football than me.....I will listen. - The Gipper How about someone more knowledgeable than you? Plenty of those around... Or is "smarter at" a legal thing? Oh that's right, you couldn't tell me if it was... might be too close to "advice". I'd call you a Class A Asshole, but you have no class. Better a Class A Asshole than a Class A Kunthole, which is what YOU are. And I have always acknowledged that a number of you probably know more about talent evaluation than I.....because you study it, and it bores me somewhat...and what I do is go by what better experts than any of you on here say. I also note that you gave not one word to the issue: Why would a man beast like Barmore be completely discounted by some team because he may not be a "fit"? My response is that if you do that....then I believe it shows a complete lack on knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 12 hours ago, Gunz41 said: Pretty sure he was talking about Smith, not Barmore I was talking about Barmore. He responded directly to my comment about Barmore. Here is his statement: If he fits what the Browns are trying to do on defense, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runyon27 Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 3 hours ago, ballpeen said: I think O-gun is replaceable. He has leveled off after a promising rookie season. One guy you didn't mention that has shown promise is Taylor, at least in tipping passes. Not sure what kind of run stop grades he is getting. Yeah I think I am done with Ogunjobi, I was disappointed in his play this year and I think upgrading the interior of the D line needs to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 17 minutes ago, runyon27 said: Yeah I think I am done with Ogunjobi, I was disappointed in his play this year and I think upgrading the interior of the D line needs to be done. Can you think of a guy we may consider to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 32 minutes ago, The Gipper said: I was talking about Barmore. He responded directly to my comment about Barmore. Here is his statement: If he fits what the Browns are trying to do on defense, yes. Well you were talking about both. If Barmore is there, depending on fit (i.e. what have coming back, FA, etc.) Then I certainly would look. But I think that DL was the least of Browns worries on D this year. I don't see Smith being the next Harvin, but just say Smith is "ranked" 5th and is somehow still available. I don't think he fits the NEED for Browns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 8 minutes ago, Gunz41 said: Well you were talking about both. If Barmore is there, depending on fit (i.e. what have coming back, FA, etc.) Then I certainly would look. But I think that DL was the least of Browns worries on D this year. I don't see Smith being the next Harvin, but just say Smith is "ranked" 5th and is somehow still available. I don't think he fits the NEED for Browns. OK, now, about this "fit".... Y'all seem to be using that term in different contexts. You seem to be saying that "fit" means if we are loaded at a position....say DT, then drafting another DT would not be the most prudent move for the team....given other needs. That I get. But I didn't take it that that is what Dutch was talking about (though, actually, he didn't explain anything about what he was talking about, he just went all PMS). The other "fit" is that supposedly a guy is not the right kind of player for some certain designated scheme that a team wants to run defensively; because he played in a 4-3 rather than a 3-4....or because he is used to playing upright rather than putting his hand on the ground. My contention being that talent supercedes all that. If you can get a guy that can tackle like hell, or rush the passer like hell....you get him if you need him notwithstanding what "system" you may think he is suited for.....and, again, my contention being that you suit your system to your talent...or, especially with like a 20 year old talent like Barmore, you coach him up and have him adapt. Doesn't that seem fair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 10 minutes ago, The Gipper said: OK, now, about this "fit".... Y'all seem to be using that term in different contexts. You seem to be saying that "fit" means if we are loaded at a position....say DT, then drafting another DT would not be the most prudent move for the team....given other needs. That I get. But I didn't take it that that is what Dutch was talking about (though, actually, he didn't explain anything about what he was talking about, he just went all PMS). The other "fit" is that supposedly a guy is not the right kind of player for some certain designated scheme that a team wants to run defensively; because he played in a 4-3 rather than a 3-4....or because he is used to playing upright rather than putting his hand on the ground. My contention being that talent supercedes all that. If you can get a guy that can tackle like hell, or rush the passer like hell....you get him if you need him notwithstanding what "system" you may think he is suited for.....and, again, my contention being that you suit your system to your talent...or, especially with like a 20 year old talent like Barmore, you coach him up and have him adapt. Doesn't that seem fair? Of course. And I don't know what he was meaning? All I was saying is that from what I read, I guess I assumed that he was talking about Smith not Barmore, since you had talked about both in the thread. Barmore certainly would be on my board. Smith would be too, but if there is someone comparable to his grade on the defensive side (even if you believe Smith will be better) you want to look at need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 4 hours ago, The Gipper said: Can you think of a guy we may consider to do that? Anybody can name names. The GM probably knows. I let O-gun walk. He is a marginal starter at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 4 hours ago, The Gipper said: OK, now, about this "fit".... Y'all seem to be using that term in different contexts. You seem to be saying that "fit" means if we are loaded at a position....say DT, then drafting another DT would not be the most prudent move for the team....given other needs. That I get. But I didn't take it that that is what Dutch was talking about (though, actually, he didn't explain anything about what he was talking about, he just went all PMS). The other "fit" is that supposedly a guy is not the right kind of player for some certain designated scheme that a team wants to run defensively; because he played in a 4-3 rather than a 3-4....or because he is used to playing upright rather than putting his hand on the ground. My contention being that talent supercedes all that. If you can get a guy that can tackle like hell, or rush the passer like hell....you get him if you need him notwithstanding what "system" you may think he is suited for.....and, again, my contention being that you suit your system to your talent...or, especially with like a 20 year old talent like Barmore, you coach him up and have him adapt. Doesn't that seem fair? Fit is important. Sure, a guy like Donald is going to fit anywhere, but guys like that don't hit FA easily. They go through a few years of being tagged. DT's come in different shapes and sizes. Smaller, quicker guys are usually 1 gap players. Hit the gap, penetrate, and see what happens. Others are bigger and not as quick and they are 2 gap players. They don't shoot gaps between defenders. They are expected to hold th2 ground where they are lined up, plus the ground maybe 2 yards to each side. Most do one or the other. Few can do both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoeticG Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 What would it take to get into the Top Ten? Our 1st, 2nd, 4th and a 2nd next year? We don't need a lot of picks right now. Develop what we have and go for Quality over Quantity IMO. If we can dip into the top ten for a Stud LB, even if it cost us the entire draft, that's what we really need I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 22 hours ago, D Bone said: Thank you Kevin, Baker, Nick, Jarvis and Kareem for making it possible for threads like this to not be posted until the middle of January, instead of the usual mid October. Andrew, too? 16 hours ago, ballpeen said: what do you think? I think it pretty unrealistic, but it may be unrealistic to think barmore is there, but he is listed there according to CBS. Generally speaking, i don't think CBS is very good in their rankings. Likely very unrealistic, but I only used Smith to make an "anti-draft for need" point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, PoeticG said: What would it take to get into the Top Ten? Our 1st, 2nd, 4th and a 2nd next year? We don't need a lot of picks right now. Develop what we have and go for Quality over Quantity IMO. If we can dip into the top ten for a Stud LB, even if it cost us the entire draft, that's what we really need I believe. No Safety? No CB? No DE to bookend MG? No way in hell Berry is going all in on one pick when we have starter and depth issues on both sides of the ball... ... not to mention a bushel basket of FAs... not all of whom we will be able to sign due to the cap. We are way more than one LB away... I don't care how studly he is. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SdBacker80 Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, PoeticG said: What would it take to get into the Top Ten? Our 1st, 2nd, 4th and a 2nd next year? We don't need a lot of picks right now. Develop what we have and go for Quality over Quantity IMO. If we can dip into the top ten for a Stud LB, even if it cost us the entire draft, that's what we really need I believe. You don’t go from 26 to top 10 unless you need a QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Bone Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: Andrew, too? Thanking Andrew is a Process that I'm still working through... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunz41 Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 1 hour ago, PoeticG said: What would it take to get into the Top Ten? Our 1st, 2nd, 4th and a 2nd next year? We don't need a lot of picks right now. Develop what we have and go for Quality over Quantity IMO. If we can dip into the top ten for a Stud LB, even if it cost us the entire draft, that's what we really need I believe. Yea, and you are way off too. The Chiefs trade (27 to 10) was #27, 3rd round pick, and next year #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 Gumby draft trivia.... It's 2014... The Browns traded down and than back up from what draft slot number to pick a QB from Texas A&M at pick #22... Can ya name the prior pick slot & team we traded up with? Trade ups Beware Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 2 hours ago, gumby73 said: pick #22 The Browns' pick of death! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjp28 Posted January 19, 2021 Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 5 minutes ago, Tour2ma said: The Browns' pick of death! #22. Maybe they could trade it for a second round pick ? Two thirds ? Or just be brave and keep it and go for it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 19, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2021 3 hours ago, gumby73 said: Gumby draft trivia.... It's 2014... The Browns traded down and than back up from what draft slot number to pick a QB from Texas A&M at pick #22... Can ya name the prior pick slot & team we traded up with? Trade ups Beware Second round.....Cowboys? No. I am thinking of the Quinn trade there. Also taken #22. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 22 hours ago, gumby73 said: Gumby draft trivia.... It's 2014... The Browns traded back up *from what draft slot number to pick a QB* from Texas A&M at pick #22... Can ya name the *prior pick slot & team we traded up with*? The Answers are.. What is pick *#26 (the pick the Browns will start at in the 2021 draft) And whom are the *Philadelphia Eagles In the 2014 NFL draft, your Cleveland Browns owned 2 first round picks.. Pick #4 & Pick #26.. Pick #26 was added from the Colts in a trade for RB Trent Richardson.. Pick #4 was traded to the Bills to select WR Sammy Watkins.. The Browns slid down to Pick #9, to than trade up one slot to pick at #8 to draft CB Justin Gilbert from the Vikings.. Pick #26 from Indy,was used in a trade up with the Eagles to pick #22 to draft QB Johnny 🏈 to Cleveland.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tour2ma Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 7 hours ago, gumby73 said: Pick #4 was traded to the Bills to select WR Sammy Watkins. Sammie was my guy at #4 that year until Khalil Mack miraculously fell into our lap at #4 and WE STILL TRADED THE FUCKING PICK!!! Thanks, Ray "Fuckity Fuck Fuck Fuck" Farmer... But I'm over it now... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecube Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 On 1/17/2021 at 7:40 PM, Tour2ma said: And if say Devonta Smith is there? I really doubt he will be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAg1969 Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 3 hours ago, Tour2ma said: Sammie was my guy at #4 that year until Khalil Mack miraculously fell into our lap at #4 and WE STILL TRADED THE FUCKING PICK!!! Thanks, Ray "Fuckity Fuck Fuck Fuck" Farmer... But I'm over it now... No you ain't. LOL!🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 11 hours ago, gumby73 said: The Answers are.. What is pick *#26 (the pick the Browns will start at in the 2021 draft) And whom are the *Philadelphia Eagles In the 2014 NFL draft, your Cleveland Browns owned 2 first round picks.. Pick #4 & Pick #26.. Pick #26 was added from the Colts in a trade for RB Trent Richardson.. Pick #4 was traded to the Bills to select WR Sammy Watkins.. The Browns slid down to Pick #9, to than trade up one slot to pick at #8 to draft CB Justin Gilbert from the Vikings.. Pick #26 from Indy,was used in a trade up with the Eagles to pick #22 to draft QB Johnny 🏈 to Cleveland.. Imagine if some proper selections had been made with those picks. Those....hopefully good....players would be in the prime of their careers for the Browns right now. Khalil Mack or Mike Evans were available at #4 Bradley Roby and Demarcus Lawrence at #26 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 It's easy to look back. Looking forward is the only thing that matters. I think we will move up this year if we have a targeted player in sight. We have two 3rd rounders and two 4th rounders. Two 3rd rounders could get us another 2nd round pick. Two 4th rounders could get us back in to the 3rd round. I'd be thrilled with a 1st round pick, two 2nd rounders and a 3rd. No 4th rounders then pick up in the 5th round. Maybe just do one of those trades, then trade down a bit to pick up some extra for next year. I like having extra draft picks. This year is a bit different. Now is the time to trade up a bit and get impact players to add to whatever we get in free agency. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby73 Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Like this idea ^^ looks like a solid 2.5 round draft.... From today... Andrew Berry's season ending press conference https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/6-things-we-learned-from-andrew-berry-s-end-of-season-press-conference Estimated team cap rollovers The NFL will audit these amounts after calculating incentives and cap credits from this year. The final amounts will be added to each team's cap for 2021. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillmotion Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 We need to target linebackers and safeties, and add more depth to the D-line and O-line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icecube Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 On 1/17/2021 at 7:24 PM, runyon27 said: Totally agree, draft should be all defense....outside maybe a backup o lineman. And maybe a WR. Mid-round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runyon27 Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 On 1/18/2021 at 10:55 AM, The Gipper said: Can you think of a guy we may consider to do that? Maybe Billings who opted out this past season would be an in house option. Hopefully Elliot will take a big step forward, didn't see much from him this year either. Maybe Aluaalua from Pittsburgh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiggins7919 Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 The Chiefs game was the defining moment of "do we miss OBJ". The Chiefs absolutely defended virtually EVERY play well in the air. They did the exact same thing in 2019 against Stefanski in Minnesota, and it shouldn't have been a surprise to see our attack struggle because we had nobody who could beat man coverage. Most of the time the Chiefs didn't deep cover half of the damn field. Baker made some unbelievable throws against the Chiefs, but we simply didn't get enough possessions when losing turnover battle. We need speed on offense and defense, as well as DTs. We're close, boys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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