Is anyone impressed with Joe Woods?.. I'm NOT!!

[nickers]

Can anyone please tell me what this 4-2 defense is were running?... So far.. I'm not one bit impressed with it.. I understand we signed a bunch of new guys.. And some guys.. Rookies and such are still getting technique down and stuff... But so far.. Joe Woods has under utilized Garretts skill set as a pass rusher.. Guys like Mack Wlson and Takitaki have been just barely outside of marginal production wise.. But also... I see a too much "read and react" then just going for the guy with the ball.. I understand you have to track the ball and such.. But at what point do we play the game of football or watch people stand around giving 5-10 yard cushions and letting TE's rule the middle of the field on us.. I mean were going into game 3 and Garrett's sack total is 1.5... But getting back to the mess I see midfield where the LB'ers,TE's and backs roam... We are losing too many matchups and assignments in that area... That needs to greatly improve or Kevin Stefanski can hire another DC fast! Because I see no rhyme or reason with this shitass Defense..

[calfoxwc]

I've defended Woods a lot, because he didn't have the talent. Plain and simple.

But, he does now.

Maybe he can't start blitzing etc until the defense gells - to avoid crititical mistakes leading to quick scores.

A lot of new faces, a few rookies and "rookies"....

but if he doesn't start being aggressive soon - I think he needs an attitude adjustment you betcha.

Interesting stats for 2020:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/opp.htm

Ravens and Steelers were #1 and #7 in blitzing. Browns were 26th.

dammit.

[nickers]

9 minutes ago, calfoxwc said:

I've defended Woods a lot, because he didn't have the talent. Plain and simple.

But, he does now.

Maybe he can't start blitzing etc until the defense gells - to avoid crititical mistakes leading to quick scores.

A lot of new faces, a few rookies and "rookies"....

but if he doesn't start being aggressive soon - I think he needs an attitude adjustment you betcha.

Interesting stats for 2020:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/opp.htm

Ravens and Steelers were #1 and #7 in blitzing. Browns were 26th.

dammit.

He's not even setting up Garrett for success.. This defenseve scheme blows!

[ATOM]

ill add this WTF is Garrett doin droping back in coverage  ? also are defenders seem to be in the same spots for the entire game tyrod has having a field day against us zero imagination  coming from woods I mean damnit man mix it up abit you gotta keep the qb guessing I mean fuck even the rookie mills looked like tom brady out there and if fields starts putting up numbers against us woods should be fired at games end 

[SdBacker80]

We have some cover guys now that can go man to man in our secondary. So this bail cover 3 junk is a little frustrating.

I’m not a big fan of the bend don’t break principles either- especially when the team isn’t creating turnovers. 

My biggest complaint…I saw a team last Sunday that needed a jolt (bring an extra pass rusher) and that didn’t happen until the second half and low and behold it worked we pressured with a safety and an inside corner on another play.  
 

If the front four is getting to the QB that’s great/ideal but when you can’t and you give up 14 points in 20 plays - it’s time to bring an extra guy or two. The average/below average QBs are too good to give 5/6 seconds 

You could defend Joe last year…you can’t this year 

[ATOM]

are defense is so predictable  

[nickers]

27 minutes ago, ATOM said:

are defense is so predictable  

Our.. not are.. LOL But I agree... This prevent rubber band shit was never intended to be a base defense.. it was created just to run out out the last couple minutes of game clock and your up by an insurmountable score...

[ATOM]

8 minutes ago, nickers said:

Our.. not are.. LOL But I agree... This prevent rubber band shit was never intended to be a base defense.. it was created just to run out out the last couple minutes of game clock and your up by an insurmountable score...

also i could have sworn i read that we would be a attacking style of defense and not to worry about mistakes so we could create turnovers 

what happend to that woods ?

[nickers]

21 minutes ago, ATOM said:

also i could have sworn i read that we would be a attacking style of defense and not to worry about mistakes so we could create turnovers 

what happend to that woods ?

He lied and went into his shell.. I think his scheme blows... We're so passive its beyond predictable

[Ibleedbrown]

I’m pleased with the run defense so far. It’s only 2 games but it’s looking better than it has in years past. All l can figure with the pass defense is there’s still some kinks getting unkinked. 

[7moses7]

Joe Woods blows. 

[nickers]

14 minutes ago, 7moses7 said:

Joe Woods blows. 

Thank you!

[Marvin the Martian]

What's wrong?  Don't you recognize the 4-2-sieve pass defense?

[nickers]

37 minutes ago, Marvin the Martian said:

What's wrong?  Don't you recognize the 4-2-sieve pass defense?

yes.. it sucks too..

[Orion]

8 hours ago, ATOM said:

also i could have sworn i read that we would be a attacking style of defense and not to worry about mistakes so we could create turnovers 

I recall that.  Hasn't really been the case yet this year.  We'll see if something happens this week against a new QB.

[nickers]

18 minutes ago, Orion said:

I recall that.  Hasn't really been the case yet this year.  We'll see if something happens this week against a new QB.

I doubt it.. Woods reminds me of hue Jackass..

[D Bone]

Watching Carolina's D makes me envious. 

[Tour2ma]

16 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

I've defended Woods a lot, because he didn't have the talent. Plain and simple.

But, he does now.

Does now is still "on paper", but he's the guy most responsible for seeing thar paper translate to tthe field, so yeah.... there with you now.

Maybe OHIO teams are not supposed to have good DCs?

 

I did find the Delpit blitz encouragingish....

[tiamat63]

Couple weeks ago I took the time to break down the bomb to Tyreek Hill.  Watched the film, broke-down the coverage, the responsibilities, only thing I didn't bother touched were the run/gap fits because they weren't relevant to the point I was making.  I did all this to see if what I watched live and absorbed in real time was supported by going back and combing for further detail.

Nuance...  It's a hell of word.   In my search, I found my initial observation to be spot on.  It was a freaky play.     

I did the same with the Browns pass rush when watching the All-22.   Were they as below average as I had the "feeling"...?       Turns out, after viewing both games, my feeling was incorrect.  The pass rush was well above average and just unfortunate running into QB's that have the athletic ability to help mitigate or overcome the effects our Dline had been putting in. Pressure rates tend to eventually produce compound effects on a QB. Either with errant throws, questionable decisions or turnovers.  Rarely, if ever, does a team show little pressure rate then somehow produce turnovers.  I mentioned this in the Browns-HOU thread and how the Browns are a breath away from 2-0 and +2, +3 turnover margin.   I would think, after some years on this board, that I could be taken at my word on what/who I have and have not watched and that my evaluations tend to be both unbias and accurate.   Not saying I haven't been wrong, but I've gotten on base WAY more than I've struck out.

 

I'm not a "fan" of Joe Woods.  But his designs held KC to 10 points in the first half, AT THEIR HOUSE.    A design Baltimore happily attempted to duplicate only to pull it off by the skin of their teeth at home.   Then, in the complete dismissal of a Texans squad with some decent talent (Tyrod, Cooks, Conley, Lindsay, Amendola, Miller, Tunsil) Browns fans have shifted into almost complete arrogance over the course of the 2018-2019 off-season that we should be blowing out these teams.    Winning by 10 against a team like Houston is a fine dub by any stretch, be it home or away.    However,  I understand Woods gameplans and the coverage structure in them to a significant degree.   

   I see calls for blitzing but not realizing that when this team was blitz happy, our pressure and sack rate didn't rise commensurately with it.    Quite the opposite, our total of explosive plays given up rose.    Supporting the idea that blitzing doesn't necessarily = success.   One of the problems with Gregg Williams ultra aggressive scheme - predictability as well.  The man would send additional rushers and get himself into trouble because, like Texas Hold 'Em, when you're rigid to only one strategy no matter what it is, that strategy can be exploited.  Another thing I see failed to address, blitzing young QB's tends to actually make their reads THAT much easier     The Belicheck approach of pressure early to create ghosts is one I'm a fan of, but I see no mention of that here.

I see "scheme" tossed around a bit.  With NOBODY, save for maybe @SdBacker80, attempting or capable of digesting it further.

Granted, it's at the most basic of levels with very generalized terminology... but at minimum it's a fucking attempt from him. 

 

So you know what bothers me about this thread?  The lack of effort, more than anything really.   The lack of appreciation for detail and explanation.   Or maybe the lack of football I.Q?  But this is why, in a nutshell,  you see me respond so infrequently on this board.    A lot of what is said on here lacks substance and is just really a bunch of bitching.

 

But if you guys want to talk "scheme" live and maybe not type it out so much, don't forget we have a Browns Board discord that will be live sunday.  Would love to hear your guys' thoughts as the game is played.

[gumby73]

I'll just drop this in here...

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?group=D&cat=T  Woods defense sit's at #14 overall, going into game 3..🧐 (Bengals lead AFCN, by a bunch) a click of the top stat line? will rearrange the teams rankings ^^

youth playing..only returning starters Ward & Garrett & Harrison (some).. Jacob Phillips (speed) out 2 games/ Starting Mike backer played half of one..

On 9/19/2021 at 1:50 PM, gumby73 said:

get out this lazy zone defense..if he dies..he dies

nope...not a fan of bend & break zone coverage.. but we are not the only team struggling in pass coverage early

we have the Bears & Vikings to get better next... LAC/Zona/Denver/Pitt next 4 👀... we better get better 🤓 & stay healthy 🤞

Edit-- believe this.. Wood's practice's include press coverage against some of the best wide outs/TE's in the game

[SdBacker80]

We Arent confusing a lot of QBs- so far we’ve face the best, one middle of the road guy and another guy that’s a low end backup.

 The first read is there- they take it- and we are struggling on 3rd down. Not alot of Mixing coverages or sending an inside corner or a safety on a blitz.   (Pre-snap confusion).  We get the QB off of the first read we are winning some of these one on one battles upfront and getting sacks - because we are close. My guess is we do well this week…better here based upon the matchup. 

We are seemingly in same predicament as last year bend don’t break basic stuff hope for Myles to make a play and or get a turnover or the offense fails to execute.  Not a terrible strategy if you have Robert Jackson, Sendejo, Mack Wilson types. 

 

[SdBacker80]

54 minutes ago, gumby73 said:

I'll just drop this in here...

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?group=D&cat=T  Woods defense sit's at #14 overall, going into game 3..🧐 (Bengals lead AFCN, by a bunch)

youth playing..only returning starters Ward & Garrett & Harrison (some).. Jacob Phillips (speed) out 2 games/ Starting Mike backer played half of one..

nope...not a fan of bend & break zone coverage.. but we are not the only team struggling in pass coverage early

we have the Bears & Vikings to get better next... LAC/Zona/Denver/Pitt next 4 👀... we better get better 🤓 & stay healthy 🤞

Edit-- believe this.. Wood's practice's include press coverage against some of the best wide outs/TE's in the game

The three lowest scored members of the defense according to PFF- any guesses?

 

Ward ….45.4

Troy Hill…48.3

and 

John Johnson…42.4

are they losing it? If not, why can’t we get the best out of these three? Are they in the right scheme?

[gumby73]

9 hours ago, SdBacker80 said:

Ward ….45.4

Troy Hill…48.3

and 

John Johnson…42.4

are they losing it? If not, why can’t we get the best out of these three? Are they in the right scheme?

 never impressed with PFF score's nor scoring system... It's what my eyes can tell me... and that's..

Joe Woods defensive looks, are to damn predictable... answers? mix up the looks... and studs like Garrett/Clowney, will not be studs, being asked to drop in coverage 🤬   

The master mind of defense, (Belicheck) coaches to play both fronts..4-3 & 3-4.. we have guys on this team coming from base 3-4's.. Two Malik's & Andrew Billings sure looks like he could anchor a Nose.. betting The Browns rarely practice against a 3-4 front..

Well,, da Bears will walk in here Sunday with 3 man fronts & 4 LB'ers across the middle to take away the dink's & dumps.. Baker's eyes needs to locate K.Mack pre-snap.. our good running game, has to open up the play action passing game, big time this sunday.. than go win the wear down 4th quarter

I realize, Woods defense is to banged up at LB to give this look a fair chance... But,  if Justin Fields start's reading LB'ers names on the back of our Jersey's? Fields will out gain Montgomery this week 

I can deal with Wood's game-plan week one.  Against the Texans? a Solid D verse T.Taylor.. including waiting to long on sending Hill & Delpit against a Rookie QB..  

Warden / Hill / JJ3 need to play like the backbone to this defense... while the ball needs to be forced out of QB's hands in under 4 seconds to give them a fair chance to be graded..

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/cleveland-browns-justin-fields--171539916/

[calfoxwc]

https://www.brownsnation.com/kevin-stefanski-has-request-for-sundays-browns-fans/

"To begin with, he needs defensive coordinator Joe Woods to call a different game with man-to-man coverage and blitzing packages to rush Fields.

Joe Woods has a great opportunity this week is get rid of some of the hate.

You have a rookie Quarterback making his NFL debut at home. You cannot let him look good. #Browns"

**********************************************************************

Time to step it up aggression-wise - don't be a predictable defense. Don't leave big plays wide open in the process, sure.

[nickers]

2 hours ago, calfoxwc said:

https://www.brownsnation.com/kevin-stefanski-has-request-for-sundays-browns-fans/

"To begin with, he needs defensive coordinator Joe Woods to call a different game with man-to-man coverage and blitzing packages to rush Fields.

Joe Woods has a great opportunity this week is get rid of some of the hate.

You have a rookie Quarterback making his NFL debut at home. You cannot let him look good. #Browns"

**********************************************************************

Time to step it up aggression-wise - don't be a predictable defense. Don't leave big plays wide open in the process, sure.

I'm more anxious to see what this ass hat calls against a running midget like Kyler Murray... He's basically Tyrod Taylor with a better skill set...

[jiggins7919]

I heard some interesting from Jake Burns from the OBR. He said at least one of the very few times we blitzed our rotations were nonexistent, meaning the QB simply threw the ball directly from where the pressure came from for the easiest 15 yards any QB ever had. Jake's suspicion, and mine, is that our defenders aren't anywhere NEAR ready for anything complicated. What's sad is a blitz isn't that terribly complicated, but it's obvious Woods doesn't trust his players yet. 

I'll give you another example. Against the Chiefs, we had a player "guarding grass", meaning he wasn't around a single offensive player. He was "guarding" the back corner of the end zone, but the problem was...why? So what happened? They threw a simple out pattern to Kelce for an easy score. EVERYONE knew it was going to Kelce. Why guard the back corner of the end zone? Why not shade Kelce outside and pinch him inside? Either Woods has no idea what to do, or his players are clueless. EVERYONE KNEW IT WAS EFFING GOING TO KELCE. 

[nickers]

25 minutes ago, jiggins7919 said:

I heard some interesting from Jake Burns from the OBR. He said at least one of the very few times we blitzed our rotations were nonexistent, meaning the QB simply threw the ball directly from where the pressure came from for the easiest 15 yards any QB ever had. Jake's suspicion, and mine, is that our defenders aren't anywhere NEAR ready for anything complicated. What's sad is a blitz isn't that terribly complicated, but it's obvious Woods doesn't trust his players yet. 

I'll give you another example. Against the Chiefs, we had a player "guarding grass", meaning he wasn't around a single offensive player. He was "guarding" the back corner of the end zone, but the problem was...why? So what happened? They threw a simple out pattern to Kelce for an easy score. EVERYONE knew it was going to Kelce. Why guard the back corner of the end zone? Why not shade Kelce outside and pinch him inside? Either Woods has no idea what to do, or his players are clueless. EVERYONE KNEW IT WAS EFFING GOING TO KELCE. 

 

 

Because with each game.. Woods proves to me more and more he's a dumb mother fucker... Can him NOW!

[Tour2ma]

On 9/24/2021 at 5:37 AM, tiamat63 said:

because, like Texas Hold 'Em, when you're rigid to only one strategy no matter what it is, that strategy can be exploited.  Another thing I see failed to address, blitzing young QB's tends to actually make their reads THAT much easier     The Belicheck approach of pressure early to create ghosts is one I'm a fan of, but I see no mention of that here.

Well... I believe in getting caught bluffing early, but not often...

Last season we were statistically much worse off when blitzing. This? I'd guess the sample size is too small at this point, but when I see other teams' DCs designing blitz combos that resemble wide ZBS with DL clearing alleys for LBs and DBs to run free to the QB and none of that from us, well.... it's disappointing. We seem to be plain vanilla in a chocolate chip, cookie dough world. I still do not share the diminished LB value view ascribed to DePo... I think that's part of the issue. Superior athletes at LB still seem to go a long way to determining the success of a D's blitz.

Ours? much simpler... If MG wins his matchup we pressure, if not we don't. Now even MG is calling for help... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/09/myles-garrett-calls-on-his-browns-teammates-to-step-up-and-make-the-play-when-hes-chipped-and-doubled.html

Woods vs. Williams? Live fast/ die young vs. conservatively make the opponent string plays to even sniff the redzone? The former is sexier, but the latter is the sounder philosophy in general. It just runs into issues when it faces a high-powered O that can string those plays or bust one despite facing a well-disciplined 2ndary giving a lil added cushion.  And if that is not KC's O, then I do not know whose it is.

 

Moot to talk rerplacements. Joe is here for the duration.

[Tour2ma]

On 9/23/2021 at 11:18 AM, SdBacker80 said:

We have some cover guys now that can go man to man in our secondary.

Kiss of death vs. running QBs...

On 9/23/2021 at 9:32 AM, nickers said:

Garrett's sack total is 1.5.

Sacks are overrated as a measure of a pass rush's effectiveness. While they are nice and sexy... Pressures, Hurries and Knock-downs are what you want to see pile up... with a nod to Offensive holds as well.

[SdBacker80]

1 minute ago, Tour2ma said:

Kiss of death vs. running QBs...

Sacks are overrated as a measure of a pass rush's effectiveness. While they are nice and sexy... Pressures, Hurries and Knock-downs are what you want to see pile up... with a nod to Offensive holds as well.

I hear you…while Tyrod is still a threat I don’t think he makes you want to abandon man all together.  Now Lamar…absolutely.  And Strangely we played man a ton in that late season shoot out against Lamar.

And Someone has to have some contain principles too against these running QBs