UAW President Shawn Fain DESTROYS Trump on CNN interview.

[Neo]

 

[calfoxwc]

sure, cnn, of course, and sure, the uaw union doesn't get their huge asses kissed by a lot of republicans.

boring. He's just another corrupt at heart radical who doesn't care about America.

A 21 percent wage increase is garbage??? He's even backstabbed workers to get ahead....

https://www.where2bro.org › shawn-fain-con-game

Shawn Fain Screwed 74 Electricians | Backstabbed Electricians | Where2Bro

International Rep Shawn Fain over time, plotted with Illinois UAW 1268 (2 states away from his NTC job) and plotted with other bad apples to strip certain Tier 2 Electricians out of the previously agreed Electrician Classification that the 74 Electricians agreed to upon hiring, 2012 year. Ralph began his Electricians trade back in 1974.

[Jax]

I'm not sticking up for Fain in any way as I know nothing about him, but I support unions. How can you not? This is the working class, this is my class.

I hope they get a fair deal and secure better job security.

Trump came to the valley, Lordstown and told everyone not to sell their homes, GM isn't going anywhere. Sure it's mostly out of his control but when they announced the first wave of lay offs before announcing the shut down, he really wasn't anywhere to be found. GM packed up and left, though the car we were making was still making profits, just not as much as GM wanted, I guess. Whether you're for or against unions, you expect the politicians to support jobs period. GM makes their billions and without unions it wouldn't be a job worth keeping, you have no idea how management works in these factories. Middle class workers deserve to earn a good living when the company they work for generate tremendous profits.

I and just about everyone around me, a lot of people, supported and voted for him. After he gave his speech and GM shutdown without a peep from him, I was done with him.

Unfortunately, I started keeping tabs on politics again. Was away for a good spell because it mostly doesn't affect me, so I thought. I was wrong, just the issue of illegals pouring in and changing the landscape into a 3rd world perspective is reason to stay informed. Illegals invading and supporting the 2nd amendment were my 2 main issues, of course a few others right behind but these 2 can do irreversible damage to our country and the freedoms we enjoy. I know some people who are good intentioned think falsely that banning guns will save lives or end violence, but it will do the opposite on top of eroding more rights the gov't has no right to mess with.

Anyways, I had to bury my feelings over the love of my old job and all the friends I had because Trump didn't do too bad as president and somehow the person I considered to be the comical sidekick got nominated for president before eventually stealing it. Maybe it wasn't stolen but the votes he received were merely because the biased media fed the gullible misinformation and the votes were against Trump not for Biden. As predicted, look where it got us.

The unions usually come out and support Democrats no matter what and we receive flyers while working with a list of all democrats to vote for when elections come, and even get the day off for elections. They don't care what they represent, what their background is or what policies they support, they vote straight down the democratic line.

I don't blame them to some extent as Republicans have always been against unions and supported the upper management, not sure if it's still that way but I believe it is for the most part. Though some have wisened up and at least pretend to support unions for votes. The political field is crazy, it's gone too long without anyone or anything held to accountability. It's all becoming a clown show and it's us citizens that pay for it. Things Trump did weren't issues he took advantage of while in office,if he did do anything. Politicians like Biden made their fortunes because of their office seat. There's a huge difference between the two.

Maybe Trump has come around after some time, maybe not fully but I bet he actually does care more than Biden does.

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

Who gives a fu c k?

[Canton Dawg]

The UAW really has some type of short term memory loss…or they’re really stupid.

 

[cccjwh]

 

[Westside Steve]

12 hours ago, Neo said:

 

Unions certainly should take credit for their share of the downturn and the American economy. Sorry when you overreach for jobs that aren't that demanding and combine that with restrictions on American Business only you drive up the price of American Goods and make foreign Goods more attractive to the consumer. Not only that but ridiculously high wages will necessarily Force business into more and more automation which will, and the end, make human workers even less necessary for production.

Without tossing any insults back and forth what's wrong with what I just said?

WSS

( as for your video it's just another had a long line of campaign ads for the Democrat Party from their propaganda Outlet CNN)

[cccjwh]

3 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Unions certainly should take credit for their share of the downturn and the American economy. Sorry when you overreach for jobs that aren't that demanding and combine that with restrictions on American Business only you drive up the price of American Goods and make foreign Goods more attractive to the consumer. Not only that but ridiculously high wages will necessarily Force business into more and more automation which will, and the end, make human workers even less necessary for production.

Without tossing any insults back and forth what's wrong with what I just said?

WSS

( as for your video it's just another had a long line of campaign ads for the Democrat Party from their propaganda Outlet CNN)

There you go using your feelings to make assertions that aren't true...

 

[Westside Steve]

2 hours ago, cccjwh said:

There you go using your feelings to make assertions that aren't true...

 

Well that was when 23 trillion $ was considered a lot of money. 😃 But of course look at your own chart just about neck and neck with the asians. And that's without South Korea checking in.

Also a relatively small downturn caused by over regulation is plenty to knock us down in the second place and or freefall.

WSS

[cccjwh]

13 minutes ago, Westside Steve said:

Well that was when 23 trillion $ was considered a lot of money. 😃 But of course look at your own chart just about neck and neck with the asians. And that's without South Korea checking in.

Also a relatively small downturn caused by over regulation is plenty to knock us down in the second place and or freefall.

WSS

If you would like to work in China's unregulated labor market, go right ahead. 

 

[Canton Dawg]

49 minutes ago, cccjwh said:

If you would like to work in China's unregulated labor market, go right ahead. 

 

That would be similar to an illegal alien working in the U.S.

There’s plenty of them with Dementia Joe opening up the southern border.

[cccjwh]

28 minutes ago, Canton Dawg said:

That would be similar to an illegal alien working in the U.S.

There’s plenty of them with Dementia Joe opening up the southern border.

Well unemployment is under 4% so apparently there aren't enough. 

 

[Canton Dawg]

6 minutes ago, cccjwh said:

Well unemployment is under 4% so apparently there aren't enough. 

 

Don’t worry, there’s more coming every day.

By more, I’m referring to child traffickers, drug smugglers, criminally insane, all kinds of Dumbocrats.

[cccjwh]

2 hours ago, Canton Dawg said:

Don’t worry, there’s more coming every day.

By more, I’m referring to child traffickers, drug smugglers, criminally insane, all kinds of Dumbocrats.

Sure, everyone knows what you think of brown people.

 

[Jax]

9 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

Unions certainly should take credit for their share of the downturn and the American economy. Sorry when you overreach for jobs that aren't that demanding and combine that with restrictions on American Business only you drive up the price of American Goods and make foreign Goods more attractive to the consumer. Not only that but ridiculously high wages will necessarily Force business into more and more automation which will, and the end, make human workers even less necessary for production.

Without tossing any insults back and forth what's wrong with what I just said?

WSS

( as for your video it's just another had a long line of campaign ads for the Democrat Party from their propaganda Outlet CNN)

Everything is wrong with that. Unions prop up the economy if anything. As Ford once said, I need to pay my workers enough money so they can afford the product they build.

You have no idea if the jobs are demanding or not. I can tell you, they are very much demanding. At my plant, you have less than 1 minute to do your job as the car rolls by. After it rolls by, you immediately walk up to the next car and do it again. You stand and walk all day, sometimes bending over into the engine compartment, sometimes hunched over backwards trying to get under the steering wheel section and sometimes your under the car with both hands over your head trying to to use a gun to drive in a dozen screws along with other parts as you wear an apron to hold a few pounds of parts. If I went on vacation, all the people that work after me would throw a party when I returned because most people couldn't even do my job and it affects everyone there after. A literal party for themselves in their group.

That's my side but there's plenty more. You have iron worker unions and more, have you ever worked or know anything about their trade? Look it up, they do all sorts of things, from bridges to gutting out factories to remodel and update. You pay them good money not just for the crap work conditions they go through and the dangers and risks but because of their knowledge in doing the job properly to code so that it's safe and lasts.

Driving up the costs of goods is company misinformation. When union members strike such as UAW is doing now, companies like GM will put out garbage reports to the news because they want to gain the favor of the public. I read an old news article that was in my grandmas basement, it was late 70s and it talked about GM and pensions/healthcare. It went into detail how the company not only plans but has the funds to cover their expenses for the next 10+ years. This is a billion dollar + company, they know what they're doing and have things laid out years in advance, they don't get caught off guard. These expenses don't just creep up on them, everything is accounted for years down the road.

At my closed plant, they made all kinds of deals with local gov't to gain all kinds of tax advantages but they didn't holds up their end because part of it was they had to keep the plant open. They don't care, not only that but they are wasteful, they have no problem dropping millions when they don't have to for all kinds of things because they merely did not plan correctly.

Who are you or anyone to say ridiculous high wages? Do you want me to come into your business and argue you and all your counterparts make too much money? Even if you make below poverty wages, you sure the hell don't want anyone coming in and doing that. That's what I call worker cannibalism, workers need to support each other  not eat each other. Unless you're part of the companies upper management teams. Those guys take all they want with every perk but somehow it's the rest of the workers fault who put in their blood and sweat as well, and often times have more loyalty to the companies they work for. The people all around me at GM cared for the product we made for the customers and not only did we do our jobs best we could, we kept an eye out for anything that was wrong with the car as it went by. Sometimes I wouldn't have time to say or write something up I'd pass it along to the next guy and he'd do it for me. Sometimes we caught engine bolts missing from the engine and usually something went wrong up the line and the foreman(management) would just send the car to keep the line moving as they would send someone to fix it elsewhere but that car was about to hit the high line where everyone stands under it so we'd always make them come fix it before that. We'd add pieces of tape for paint defects, I'd catch a bolt missing from the seat belt, whatever we noticed we flagged, and we paid attention so we could help and catch things. Not only that, but I learned the jobs around me on my own so when new people came over and shut the line down and could walk over and help get things moving again, I'm not really supposed to do that because management takes advantage of everything you do for them.

Of course the cost of employees is added into everything we consume, the cost is about 5% into a car. I know how many cars we build and I doubt it's even that. As I said, let's say all of the sudden you pay the workers half, you will not see the price in cars drop by any amount. In other words, no they do not affect the price of this product going up in price. We need more jobs like this in America, we don't need to start losing them. Now can a place like McDonalds say the same? Can they pay workers more without raising prices? I don't know but from what I understand it's not as easy as a company like GM can afford. What's the point in buying American or saving these jobs from going over seas if you can't make a living at them with a fair wage? That fair wage isn't determined by a worker at McDonalds but by the very company people work at. Only workers at GM can determine what is fair, not you or I. Personally, the 40% raise seems super high but hopefully they know what they're doing. I no longer have a stake in it, if I did I'd be happy at 20%.

Make no mistake, no one and nothing is forcing any company or industry into automation. Not only that but GMs been automating what it could since forever, it has nothing to do with any strike or anything the workers prompt and it's nothing new. We had some robotics on the other side of the line from me and they were always down, engineers were always over there fiddling around. There were some automation that were very much needed, I'm not against it. We had a robot that applied the caulking around the windshield before the next robot picked up the windshield and set it in place. I think precision points like that benefited more from a robot. As I said, me and all the workers I ran into and know all had the customer in mind first.

I know union talk is a political party divide but it shouldn't be any longer. Unions should be supported by all.

If we look at teachers unions, I can tell you absolutely there is a need for those unions because those positions become political. People at the top could fire at will and hire in their buddies anytime they felt like it if not for a union. They do it to sports coaches all the time, seen it first hand and they fired this awesome coach who was winning all so they could replace him so their daughter would get 100% playtime with the new coach in, who loses horribly now btw. The downside obviously is that teachers that deserve to be fired are protected, as the same with any union. There were a few members that needed let go at the plant but our union protected. It's just that you don't punish those guys by punishing the rest of the good people. Something needs done though. There are bad parts of the union and they need addressed just as we need to address the corruption in gov't. Penalizing the people or members though is not a solution, neither is blaming unions randomly because they make more than you(in general not saying towards anyone in particular) or they have better job security or better healthcare.

I'm guilty of some this talk as well however as I feel we pay professional sports players too much money. I always say lower food prices, tickets and merchandise. But the fact is they draw in money from different places. Still, cost of these things are crazy. Maybe instead of blaming the workers for the price of the car, why not look at managements dealings? Look at politicians and their policies that may be driving up the price of metal? Blame the engineers that can't design anything right the first time and have no concept of how things work other than it looks good on paper or in program. Don't blame your fellow workers just because it's easier and you're a bit envious. Hell yeah I'm envious too but good for them, I wish I still had my job at the plant, mostly for all the friends I had. You could literally walk to the other side of the plant, 10+ minute walk and run into people you've never met and carry on friendly conversations like you've known them for years. It was a great place, I could even walk into the front offices and carry on pleasant conversations with everyone. I love where I'm at now but I miss the mass of people that were around.

[Jax]

19 minutes ago, cccjwh said:

Sure, everyone knows what you think of brown people.

 

That's asinine to assume and that 4% number if accurate doesn't mean real unemployment numbers it just means those out of work have stopped looking. Bidens employment numbers are horrific. Not to mention any jump up in numbers are also people returning to jobs after liberals shut down the economy during covid.

Illegal immigration is a great threat to this nation, it has nothing to do with race. Don't undermine the importance of securing our borders and our freedom because you need to apply liberal woke bullshit.

[cccjwh]

2 hours ago, Jax said:

That's asinine to assume and that 4% number if accurate doesn't mean real unemployment numbers it just means those out of work have stopped looking. Bidens employment numbers are horrific. Not to mention any jump up in numbers are also people returning to jobs after liberals shut down the economy during covid.

Illegal immigration is a great threat to this nation, it has nothing to do with race. Don't undermine the importance of securing our borders and our freedom because you need to apply liberal woke bullshit.

 

Right, unemployment mean something different when a Dem is president. But it's a real number when a GOP is president. Holy shit you live in a fantasyland. "Bidens employment numbers are horrific". Has to be the stupidest thing said in here is awhile. I mean how can anyone have a real conversation, when nut jobs think something so blatantly false?

I mean holy shit. How can people be so brainwashed? Unemployment has been under 4% for the longest time in 50 years. The rate of 3.4% was the lowest in 50 years. 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/jun/29/joe-biden/fact-checking-joe-biden-on-his-unemployment-rate-a/

 

 

[calfoxwc]

2 hours ago, Jax said:

Everything is wrong with that. Unions prop up the economy if anything. As Ford once said, I need to pay my workers enough money so they can afford the product they build.

You have no idea if the jobs are demanding or not. I can tell you, they are very much demanding. At my plant, you have less than 1 minute to do your job as the car rolls by. After it rolls by, you immediately walk up to the next car and do it again. You stand and walk all day, sometimes bending over into the engine compartment, sometimes hunched over backwards trying to get under the steering wheel section and sometimes your under the car with both hands over your head trying to to use a gun to drive in a dozen screws along with other parts as you wear an apron to hold a few pounds of parts. If I went on vacation, all the people that work after me would throw a party when I returned because most people couldn't even do my job and it affects everyone there after. A literal party for themselves in their group.

That's my side but there's plenty more. You have iron worker unions and more, have you ever worked or know anything about their trade? Look it up, they do all sorts of things, from bridges to gutting out factories to remodel and update. You pay them good money not just for the crap work conditions they go through and the dangers and risks but because of their knowledge in doing the job properly to code so that it's safe and lasts.

Driving up the costs of goods is company misinformation. When union members strike such as UAW is doing now, companies like GM will put out garbage reports to the news because they want to gain the favor of the public. I read an old news article that was in my grandmas basement, it was late 70s and it talked about GM and pensions/healthcare. It went into detail how the company not only plans but has the funds to cover their expenses for the next 10+ years. This is a billion dollar + company, they know what they're doing and have things laid out years in advance, they don't get caught off guard. These expenses don't just creep up on them, everything is accounted for years down the road.

At my closed plant, they made all kinds of deals with local gov't to gain all kinds of tax advantages but they didn't holds up their end because part of it was they had to keep the plant open. They don't care, not only that but they are wasteful, they have no problem dropping millions when they don't have to for all kinds of things because they merely did not plan correctly.

Who are you or anyone to say ridiculous high wages? Do you want me to come into your business and argue you and all your counterparts make too much money? Even if you make below poverty wages, you sure the hell don't want anyone coming in and doing that. That's what I call worker cannibalism, workers need to support each other  not eat each other. Unless you're part of the companies upper management teams. Those guys take all they want with every perk but somehow it's the rest of the workers fault who put in their blood and sweat as well, and often times have more loyalty to the companies they work for. The people all around me at GM cared for the product we made for the customers and not only did we do our jobs best we could, we kept an eye out for anything that was wrong with the car as it went by. Sometimes I wouldn't have time to say or write something up I'd pass it along to the next guy and he'd do it for me. Sometimes we caught engine bolts missing from the engine and usually something went wrong up the line and the foreman(management) would just send the car to keep the line moving as they would send someone to fix it elsewhere but that car was about to hit the high line where everyone stands under it so we'd always make them come fix it before that. We'd add pieces of tape for paint defects, I'd catch a bolt missing from the seat belt, whatever we noticed we flagged, and we paid attention so we could help and catch things. Not only that, but I learned the jobs around me on my own so when new people came over and shut the line down and could walk over and help get things moving again, I'm not really supposed to do that because management takes advantage of everything you do for them.

Of course the cost of employees is added into everything we consume, the cost is about 5% into a car. I know how many cars we build and I doubt it's even that. As I said, let's say all of the sudden you pay the workers half, you will not see the price in cars drop by any amount. In other words, no they do not affect the price of this product going up in price. We need more jobs like this in America, we don't need to start losing them. Now can a place like McDonalds say the same? Can they pay workers more without raising prices? I don't know but from what I understand it's not as easy as a company like GM can afford. What's the point in buying American or saving these jobs from going over seas if you can't make a living at them with a fair wage? That fair wage isn't determined by a worker at McDonalds but by the very company people work at. Only workers at GM can determine what is fair, not you or I. Personally, the 40% raise seems super high but hopefully they know what they're doing. I no longer have a stake in it, if I did I'd be happy at 20%.

Make no mistake, no one and nothing is forcing any company or industry into automation. Not only that but GMs been automating what it could since forever, it has nothing to do with any strike or anything the workers prompt and it's nothing new. We had some robotics on the other side of the line from me and they were always down, engineers were always over there fiddling around. There were some automation that were very much needed, I'm not against it. We had a robot that applied the caulking around the windshield before the next robot picked up the windshield and set it in place. I think precision points like that benefited more from a robot. As I said, me and all the workers I ran into and know all had the customer in mind first.

I know union talk is a political party divide but it shouldn't be any longer. Unions should be supported by all.

If we look at teachers unions, I can tell you absolutely there is a need for those unions because those positions become political. People at the top could fire at will and hire in their buddies anytime they felt like it if not for a union. They do it to sports coaches all the time, seen it first hand and they fired this awesome coach who was winning all so they could replace him so their daughter would get 100% playtime with the new coach in, who loses horribly now btw. The downside obviously is that teachers that deserve to be fired are protected, as the same with any union. There were a few members that needed let go at the plant but our union protected. It's just that you don't punish those guys by punishing the rest of the good people. Something needs done though. There are bad parts of the union and they need addressed just as we need to address the corruption in gov't. Penalizing the people or members though is not a solution, neither is blaming unions randomly because they make more than you(in general not saying towards anyone in particular) or they have better job security or better healthcare.

I'm guilty of some this talk as well however as I feel we pay professional sports players too much money. I always say lower food prices, tickets and merchandise. But the fact is they draw in money from different places. Still, cost of these things are crazy. Maybe instead of blaming the workers for the price of the car, why not look at managements dealings? Look at politicians and their policies that may be driving up the price of metal? Blame the engineers that can't design anything right the first time and have no concept of how things work other than it looks good on paper or in program. Don't blame your fellow workers just because it's easier and you're a bit envious. Hell yeah I'm envious too but good for them, I wish I still had my job at the plant, mostly for all the friends I had. You could literally walk to the other side of the plant, 10+ minute walk and run into people you've never met and carry on friendly conversations like you've known them for years. It was a great place, I could even walk into the front offices and carry on pleasant conversations with everyone. I love where I'm at now but I miss the mass of people that were around.

That is excellent stuff - I do support unions and legit union functions. However, my wife retired from teaching, and there was a time when the union rep got in her face because she wouldn't commit to voting democrat. Her friends went to that unions rep and said she'd better apologize - that was uncalled form and she'd better hope she undid it before I found out.

Oh, yeah, she apologized to my Wife as I was making plans to get an attorney and meet with the superintendent of the school district, by God.

The head of the nea is a real nasty corrupt piece of work.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_S._Pringle

"President Obama named Pringle a Member of the President’s Advisory Commission on Educational Excellence for African Americans"

***********************

and of course, she's a staunch democrat no matter what.

of course, she's a leftwing radical activist beeach.

https://www.businessinsider.com/teachers-union-president-blasts-radicalized-supreme-court-abortion-gay-rights-2022-7?op=1

• A national teachers union president blamed a "radicalized Supreme Court" for decisions that she said don't reflect American values.
• National Education Association President Becky Pringle said educators will continue to fight for "the right to choose" and for LGBTQ+ rights.

*************************************

and, of course, she's out of her brain hater:

"Pringle spoke out against Supreme Court decisions on school prayer that "attack religious freedom," vouchers "that threaten the right to a universal public education," and the recent ruling in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, reversing federal protections for abortion, as having a "long-term, devastating impact" on fundamental freedoms."

**************************

now, vouchers ? How the hell do vouchers "threaten the right to a universal public education" ???

Vouchers simply let some parents who otherwise could not afford it - to send their children to a BETTER SAFER non-public school.

   IT threatens some school district's FEDERAL MONEY coming in, because it has to do with the number of students they have, that is what it does.

  It also has to do with NOT being able to try to transform America by brainwashing/radicalizing all students they have their grasp on.

   it's all so much bullship.  It has nothing to do with supporting teacher's job safety, and security, or pay.

It's a radical political movement - the left loves to represent groups of people to radicalize them.

I support honest decent unions.

 

[Canton Dawg]

7 hours ago, cccjwh said:

Sure, everyone knows what you think of brown people.

 

Considering I’m biracial, I would say you don’t know what in the fuck you’re talking about…as usual.

[Westside Steve]

14 hours ago, Jax said:

Everything is wrong with that. Unions prop up the economy if anything. As Ford once said, I need to pay my workers enough money so they can afford the product they build.

You have no idea if the jobs are demanding or not. I can tell you, they are very much demanding. At my plant, you have less than 1 minute to do your job as the car rolls by. After it rolls by, you immediately walk up to the next car and do it again. You stand and walk all day, sometimes bending over into the engine compartment, sometimes hunched over backwards trying to get under the steering wheel section and sometimes your under the car with both hands over your head trying to to use a gun to drive in a dozen screws along with other parts as you wear an apron to hold a few pounds of parts. If I went on vacation, all the people that work after me would throw a party when I returned because most people couldn't even do my job and it affects everyone there after. A literal party for themselves in their group.

That's my side but there's plenty more. You have iron worker unions and more, have you ever worked or know anything about their trade? Look it up, they do all sorts of things, from bridges to gutting out factories to remodel and update. You pay them good money not just for the crap work conditions they go through and the dangers and risks but because of their knowledge in doing the job properly to code so that it's safe and lasts.

Driving up the costs of goods is company misinformation. When union members strike such as UAW is doing now, companies like GM will put out garbage reports to the news because they want to gain the favor of the public. I read an old news article that was in my grandmas basement, it was late 70s and it talked about GM and pensions/healthcare. It went into detail how the company not only plans but has the funds to cover their expenses for the next 10+ years. This is a billion dollar + company, they know what they're doing and have things laid out years in advance, they don't get caught off guard. These expenses don't just creep up on them, everything is accounted for years down the road.

At my closed plant, they made all kinds of deals with local gov't to gain all kinds of tax advantages but they didn't holds up their end because part of it was they had to keep the plant open. They don't care, not only that but they are wasteful, they have no problem dropping millions when they don't have to for all kinds of things because they merely did not plan correctly.

Who are you or anyone to say ridiculous high wages? Do you want me to come into your business and argue you and all your counterparts make too much money? Even if you make below poverty wages, you sure the hell don't want anyone coming in and doing that. That's what I call worker cannibalism, workers need to support each other  not eat each other. Unless you're part of the companies upper management teams. Those guys take all they want with every perk but somehow it's the rest of the workers fault who put in their blood and sweat as well, and often times have more loyalty to the companies they work for. The people all around me at GM cared for the product we made for the customers and not only did we do our jobs best we could, we kept an eye out for anything that was wrong with the car as it went by. Sometimes I wouldn't have time to say or write something up I'd pass it along to the next guy and he'd do it for me. Sometimes we caught engine bolts missing from the engine and usually something went wrong up the line and the foreman(management) would just send the car to keep the line moving as they would send someone to fix it elsewhere but that car was about to hit the high line where everyone stands under it so we'd always make them come fix it before that. We'd add pieces of tape for paint defects, I'd catch a bolt missing from the seat belt, whatever we noticed we flagged, and we paid attention so we could help and catch things. Not only that, but I learned the jobs around me on my own so when new people came over and shut the line down and could walk over and help get things moving again, I'm not really supposed to do that because management takes advantage of everything you do for them.

Of course the cost of employees is added into everything we consume, the cost is about 5% into a car. I know how many cars we build and I doubt it's even that. As I said, let's say all of the sudden you pay the workers half, you will not see the price in cars drop by any amount. In other words, no they do not affect the price of this product going up in price. We need more jobs like this in America, we don't need to start losing them. Now can a place like McDonalds say the same? Can they pay workers more without raising prices? I don't know but from what I understand it's not as easy as a company like GM can afford. What's the point in buying American or saving these jobs from going over seas if you can't make a living at them with a fair wage? That fair wage isn't determined by a worker at McDonalds but by the very company people work at. Only workers at GM can determine what is fair, not you or I. Personally, the 40% raise seems super high but hopefully they know what they're doing. I no longer have a stake in it, if I did I'd be happy at 20%.

Make no mistake, no one and nothing is forcing any company or industry into automation. Not only that but GMs been automating what it could since forever, it has nothing to do with any strike or anything the workers prompt and it's nothing new. We had some robotics on the other side of the line from me and they were always down, engineers were always over there fiddling around. There were some automation that were very much needed, I'm not against it. We had a robot that applied the caulking around the windshield before the next robot picked up the windshield and set it in place. I think precision points like that benefited more from a robot. As I said, me and all the workers I ran into and know all had the customer in mind first.

I know union talk is a political party divide but it shouldn't be any longer. Unions should be supported by all.

If we look at teachers unions, I can tell you absolutely there is a need for those unions because those positions become political. People at the top could fire at will and hire in their buddies anytime they felt like it if not for a union. They do it to sports coaches all the time, seen it first hand and they fired this awesome coach who was winning all so they could replace him so their daughter would get 100% playtime with the new coach in, who loses horribly now btw. The downside obviously is that teachers that deserve to be fired are protected, as the same with any union. There were a few members that needed let go at the plant but our union protected. It's just that you don't punish those guys by punishing the rest of the good people. Something needs done though. There are bad parts of the union and they need addressed just as we need to address the corruption in gov't. Penalizing the people or members though is not a solution, neither is blaming unions randomly because they make more than you(in general not saying towards anyone in particular) or they have better job security or better healthcare.

I'm guilty of some this talk as well however as I feel we pay professional sports players too much money. I always say lower food prices, tickets and merchandise. But the fact is they draw in money from different places. Still, cost of these things are crazy. Maybe instead of blaming the workers for the price of the car, why not look at managements dealings? Look at politicians and their policies that may be driving up the price of metal? Blame the engineers that can't design anything right the first time and have no concept of how things work other than it looks good on paper or in program. Don't blame your fellow workers just because it's easier and you're a bit envious. Hell yeah I'm envious too but good for them, I wish I still had my job at the plant, mostly for all the friends I had. You could literally walk to the other side of the plant, 10+ minute walk and run into people you've never met and carry on friendly conversations like you've known them for years. It was a great place, I could even walk into the front offices and carry on pleasant conversations with everyone. I love where I'm at now but I miss the mass of people that were around.

I can see by the length of your post this is a pretty important issue to you. I know plenty of guys that are hardcore union members that I respect even though I disagree. And I doubt that I'm going to change your mind here. I just want to point out a couple of mistakes. I graduated high school in 1970 and went to college minoring and secondary ed. Many of my friends went into education. I'm fairly familiar with the teachers union. Also early on you said I have no idea how demanding union jobs may or may not be? While I've never been a member of the UAW I did work at a union shop for a short period of time in the early seventies. My friend who was a casual got us all jobs, not Union jobs, but working side by side at the shop. Trucking company; teamsters. We got minimum wage. The union members. We were janitors primarily a non-skilled position. The union custodian as well as the Dock Workers I assume were paid ballpark of 10 or 15 times what we got paid doing jobs that you could train someone to do at his first hour of work. Maybe the first day and the case of some of the dock workers. I never worked at a rubber shop but I know people who have and I doubt a college degree is necessary to work as a tire Builder in 1974. Big Union salaries and benefits drove those jobs from the Akron area to the Carolinas Tennessee at overseas.

As for the teachers union I might have less disdain if they weren't just a rubber stamp for the Democrat Party. Still artificially inflated salaries exist. I would venture a guess that 90% of teaching jobs could be done by any member of this board with a maximum of one month training.

So that's my beef with the unions. I maintain that if someone learns to do something that other people can't do won't do or don't want to do and they will be all right. Thanks to a lot of reasons our labor force is pretty much decimated today and businesses are forced to up the ante if they need human labor. Supply and demand. I figure if everybody goes on strike and the company can replace those workers within a day then they weren't that special. If they can't? Then it's time to pay up. Simple as that. But without that option it's not a Level Playing Field so companies will relocate their work staff or replace them with technology. Back to the minimum wage jobs I worked for short periods of time I never did join the Union and I never did actually teach school because I made enough money as an Entertainer. But I'm familiar with both. My opinion of course.

WSS

[DieHardBrownsFan1]

7 hours ago, Westside Steve said:

I can see by the length of your post this is a pretty important issue to you. I know plenty of guys that are hardcore union members that I respect even though I disagree. And I doubt that I'm going to change your mind here. I just want to point out a couple of mistakes. I graduated high school in 1970 and went to college minoring and secondary ed. Many of my friends went into education. I'm fairly familiar with the teachers union. Also early on you said I have no idea how demanding union jobs may or may not be? While I've never been a member of the UAW I did work at a union shop for a short period of time in the early seventies. My friend who was a casual got us all jobs, not Union jobs, but working side by side at the shop. Trucking company; teamsters. We got minimum wage. The union members. We were janitors primarily a non-skilled position. The union custodian as well as the Dock Workers I assume were paid ballpark of 10 or 15 times what we got paid doing jobs that you could train someone to do at his first hour of work. Maybe the first day and the case of some of the dock workers. I never worked at a rubber shop but I know people who have and I doubt a college degree is necessary to work as a tire Builder in 1974. Big Union salaries and benefits drove those jobs from the Akron area to the Carolinas Tennessee at overseas.

As for the teachers union I might have less disdain if they weren't just a rubber stamp for the Democrat Party. Still artificially inflated salaries exist. I would venture a guess that 90% of teaching jobs could be done by any member of this board with a maximum of one month training.

So that's my beef with the unions. I maintain that if someone learns to do something that other people can't do won't do or don't want to do and they will be all right. Thanks to a lot of reasons our labor force is pretty much decimated today and businesses are forced to up the ante if they need human labor. Supply and demand. I figure if everybody goes on strike and the company can replace those workers within a day then they weren't that special. If they can't? Then it's time to pay up. Simple as that. But without that option it's not a Level Playing Field so companies will relocate their work staff or replace them with technology. Back to the minimum wage jobs I worked for short periods of time I never did join the Union and I never did actually teach school because I made enough money as an Entertainer. But I'm familiar with both. My opinion of course.

WSS

When I got out of the Army in 1973, I drove a yellow cab in Cleveland for a few months.  We had to join the Teamsters and pay dues even though we only got paid a commission.  I've hated unions ever since.

[Bob806]

Contract talks are always tough on both sides. I hope this gets resolved  soon.

Nobody's going to get everything they ask for. We need the UAW to make gains, it's good for the middle class.

Ford will pay their execs stock options, bonuses, etc but they're not for pensions....what a bunch of BS.