Jim, Paul, Ernie and Art

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

Jim Brown and Ernie Davis both died on May 18. Eerie weird, choose your adjective.

Brown was not happy, I believe he got Art to fire PB.

Did PB really envision 2 guys like this in the same backfield, or would PB have traded Jim once Davis panned out?

Trading Bobby Mitchell without consulting Art was a fucktard thing to do.

Would Davis have been better than Jim?

Would JB dominate today? would he play injury free? with nutrition and training he would likely play same.speed at 245 -250.

How the fuck does a city and an owner lose the Browns? 

[Ibleedbrown]

When you consider the Jim Brown, none of it is frugal until you account for the cornpone.

When he was running and gunning, he was unstoppable. 

But Bobby Mitchell, he held it too. He held it in the palm of his tree. Trees were something back then, and none of it trunked like today. 

[Bob806]

My dad warned me not to get atttached to the Browns. He was a die hard, going all the way back to the AAFC days. He witnessed the Browns-Rams, Browns-Lions, & Browns NYGiants championship games/playoff games in person. 

He always sided with Paul Brown on everything. He liked Jim Brown the player, but it does sound like Modell listened to Brown, and fired Paul Brown for Collier. In his mind (my dad's), the Cleveland Browns died when Modell bought the team (1963).

Sadly, the stats don't lie. Yes, the Browns should have been able to dig out of this present mess (1999-present) a lot sooner, but competent ownership has basically ecaped Cleveland. Haslam tries but he can't help meddling. 

 

Check out the attachment from 1972's book, by Jack Clary, Cleveland Browns, Great Teams Great Years. 

Modell took perhaps the greatest franchise in football and ran it into the ground.

Present Browns record as of yesterday, 555-533-14 

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

7 hours ago, Bob806 said:

My dad warned me not to get atttached to the Browns. He was a die hard, going all the way back to the AAFC days. He witnessed the Browns-Rams, Browns-Lions, & Browns NYGiants championship games/playoff games in person. 

He always sided with Paul Brown on everything. He liked Jim Brown the player, but it does sound like Modell listened to Brown, and fired Paul Brown for Collier. In his mind (my dad's), the Cleveland Browns died when Modell bought the team (1963).

Sadly, the stats don't lie. Yes, the Browns should have been able to dig out of this present mess (1999-present) a lot sooner, but competent ownership has basically ecaped Cleveland. Haslam tries but he can't help meddling. 

 

Check out the attachment from 1972's book, by Jack Clary, Cleveland Browns, Great Teams Great Years. 

Modell took perhaps the greatest franchise in football and ran it into the ground.

Present Browns record as of yesterday, 555-533-14 

I have read this, and your Dad and mine had the same belief about Modell. I always felt that Brown got Paul fired.

As a serial entrepreneur, I can tell you first hand that I have witnessed great idea turned to shit because an investor thought they knew more than the inventor.

Modell was one of those type of assholes. He had the best, but it hurt his ego to just sit back and be successful.

I never realize what a miserable cocksucker he was until the move.

 

 

[Dutch Oven]

As with anything, this story has more nuance than most people ever want to touch on. 

1. There are quite a few members of the 1964 Browns who 100% believe they would not have won the NFL Championship if Paul Brown was still head coach. 

2. Interesting fact: Blanton Collier's win % as the Browns head coach was identical to Paul Brown's win % with the Browns in the NFL. 

3. But, yes, it is true that once Collier retired, one could say that was the true end of the "Paul Brown Era" of Browns history. Collier was the right hand man of Brown, and with him retiring, this is when I believe the Browns really became Art Modell's team in totality. The Browns from that point to the day they left became a mediocre also-ran. That's Modell's legacy.

[hoorta]

8 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

I have read this, and your Dad and mine had the same belief about Modell. I always felt that Brown got Paul fired.

As a serial entrepreneur, I can tell you first hand that I have witnessed great idea turned to shit because an investor thought they knew more than the inventor.

Modell was one of those type of assholes. He had the best, but it hurt his ego to just sit back and be successful.

I never realize what a miserable cocksucker he was until the move.

 

Yeah Tom, we've been down this road a million times. It warms the cockles of my heart that Modell eventually had to sell the team to Biscotti, because his cash flow wasn't enough to cover the interest on his loans. Oh he was massively successful as an entrepreneur. Buying the Browns in 1961 in what would be $2.5 million in todays dollars. Couldn't leave well enough alone, continually rolling over and refinancing his debt until it caught up with him.  

Brown would still be at the top of the heap in the record books if he had gone the Jerry Rice route and played until he couldn't anymore... But back then NFL players were working for relative peanuts. His 1964 $100,000 salary wouldn't even be worth $1 million today. And Modell was an ass Jim wasn't going to show for training camp, and was over in LA working on a move. Modell was dumb enough to try and make Jim play by his rules.  

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

14 hours ago, hoorta said:

Yeah Tom, we've been down this road a million times. It warms the cockles of my heart that Modell eventually had to sell the team to Biscotti, because his cash flow wasn't enough to cover the interest on his loans. Oh he was massively successful as an entrepreneur. Buying the Browns in 1961 in what would be $2.5 million in todays dollars. Couldn't leave well enough alone, continually rolling over and refinancing his debt until it caught up with him.  

Brown would still be at the top of the heap in the record books if he had gone the Jerry Rice route and played until he couldn't anymore... But back then NFL players were working for relative peanuts. His 1964 $100,000 salary wouldn't even be worth $1 million today. And Modell was an ass Jim wasn't going to show for training camp, and was over in LA working on a move. Modell was dumb enough to try and make Jim play by his rules.  

Well, we agree, Modell caused the demise of a lot of good things.

 

Sadly, we went from a control freak, to two successive village idiots.

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

21 hours ago, Dutch Oven said:

As with anything, this story has more nuance than most people ever want to touch on. 

1. There are quite a few members of the 1964 Browns who 100% believe they would not have won the NFL Championship if Paul Brown was still head coach. 

2. Interesting fact: Blanton Collier's win % as the Browns head coach was identical to Paul Brown's win % with the Browns in the NFL. 

3. But, yes, it is true that once Collier retired, one could say that was the true end of the "Paul Brown Era" of Browns history. Collier was the right hand man of Brown, and with him retiring, this is when I believe the Browns really became Art Modell's team in totality. The Browns from that point to the day they left became a mediocre also-ran. That's Modell's legacy.

Dutch, it is hard for any of us to know if The game had passed Paul Brown up. PB is an emotional topic for we Browns fans, although most unter 40 couldn't give a shit.

One of the reasons we long-timers hate Steeler fans is that none of them know Jack shit about their team before the Noll Era team.

Unfortunately, that has also become the case.with Browns fans except our time benchmark is 1999.

I hate what this team has become. Hell, I hate the NFL. But the masochism continues.

 

[Bob806]

3 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Dutch, it is hard for any of us to know if The game had passed Paul Brown up. PB is an emotional topic for we Browns fans, although most unter 40 couldn't give a shit.

One of the reasons we long-timers hate Steeler fans is that none of them know Jack shit about their team before the Noll Era team.

Unfortunately, that has also become the case.with Browns fans except our time benchmark is 1999.

I hate what this team has become. Hell, I hate the NFL. But the masochism continues.

 

Yes, yes, & yes. 

All this losing has turned many Browns fans into dummies, and it's sad.

[FY56]

On 12/5/2023 at 3:51 PM, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

Dutch, it is hard for any of us to know if The game had passed Paul Brown up. PB is an emotional topic for we Browns fans, although most unter 40 couldn't give a shit.

One of the reasons we long-timers hate Steeler fans is that none of them know Jack shit about their team before the Noll Era team.

Unfortunately, that has also become the case.with Browns fans except our time benchmark is 1999.

I hate what this team has become. Hell, I hate the NFL. But the masochism continues.

 

Why should they? They never lived it. The ones that have are approaching their 70's, dead, or in nursing homes.

So because we have lived through the last 30 years in misery means our Steeler fan counterparts are required to mire themselves in despair from an era in which they cannot relate?

That kind of argument was good to throw into the faces of Squeeler fans back the 70's and 80's. Today it is horseshit.

The only thing it proves is our envy. Makes us feel better about ourselves. Squeeler fans only know winning and we hate it.

 

I dont give a fuck about the 1964 Browns. I want to win a championship NOW!

[Ghoolie Always Ghoolie]

"I don't give a fuck about my Grandfather, I want a fucking iPhone under the tree"

-DY56-

[TexasAg1969]

7 hours ago, Ghoolie Always Ghoolie said:

"I don't give a fuck about my Grandfather, I want a fucking iPhone under the tree"

-DY56-

Santa's calling on your new Xmas present.🤣

 

[VaporTrail]

Yesterday, the Columbus Crew, Haslam's MLS team, just won their second title in four years of Haslam ownership with two different head coaches. They are one of three teams to have won the title three times. The Haslams are arguably the best owners in the MLS. 

What the fuck went so wrong in Cleveland?

[calfoxwc]

8 hours ago, VaporTrail said:

Yesterday, the Columbus Crew, Haslam's MLS team, just won their second title in four years of Haslam ownership with two different head coaches. They are one of three teams to have won the title three times. The Haslams are arguably the best owners in the MLS. 

What the fuck went so wrong in Cleveland?

because ball hockey is a stupid sport, not much going on with a lot of folks.

[The Cysko Kid]

Since we're playing fantasy time stuff, if we had picked up flacco when the ravens released him and he started for the browns for that time period would be be the best browns QB in the super bowl era? I think there's a good possibility he would. 

[Bob806]

On 12/10/2023 at 9:15 AM, VaporTrail said:

 

What the fuck went so wrong in Cleveland?

You know the cycle at the beginning....hire, fire, hire, fire, Manziel, fire, hire, etc

He's finally "settled down" a bit. He's letting Berry, DePodesta, maybe Stefanski have input, make football decisions ( I'm not a DePodesta fan).

Time will tell about the DW signing. Looking through the rear view mirror, it wasn't necessary. He was desperate.