I hate to say it but... its rebuilding time.

[Guest AdaM]

We just aren't going to make this group of players into a championship team. We have a solid group of guys I would like to keep around but the reality is... we need a lot of help.

 

Coaches:

Romeo Crennel must go. Get Cowher... Marty... Id even take Kiffin.

 

Mel Tucker. 9 Games into the season he is still making poor choices. Please tell me why WILLIE MCGINNIST is "covering" a wr?

 

Who is responsible for the terrible 3rd/4th down calls? Is it Romeo or Chud?

 

 

Offense:

 

It appears we have found our franchise QB in Brady Quinn. This issue should now be put to bed, we have to focus on other things. I can live with the dink and dunk, thats chuds fault not bradys.

 

I'm pretty happy with the Oline, time will make it gradually better barring injury.

 

Trade Braylon. He's a whiny little bitch and we would be better off with a high draft pick. Package him and DA for a 1st?

 

Everything else is good, I like the players we have and their abilities on offense.

 

 

Defense:

 

We have a couple good linemen.. Rogers, Smith(s). I thought Jackson was the only one to play well last night. McGinnist should retire, immediately. Davis.. go away. Wimbly... get back to rookie form please. Alex Hall is a keeper, Sure would like to see more of Beau Bell.

 

Secondary:

 

Brodney Pool sucks. Brandon McDonald used to show promise, now he's terrible. I like Sean Jones but he's still too raw. Eric Wright is a keeper. Did Adams play yet or is he still out? I didn't see him if he was playing. But I like Adams too.

 

 

This team needs to change its approach to building. They need to realize you have to build from within through the draft. Savage needs to quit trading away our picks and sticking us with hopes of finding a Diamond in the rough.

 

Thanks for the burger Ed, if not for having that in my stomach this defense would have made me puke.

 

/Rant

[eqrulz101]

I dont think its rebuilding time, I think its tune up time. Get rid of our coaches first and foremost. like today would be great. Get us another solid WR, course JJ will be back next year and that will be nice. Get us a few more people on defense and we have a very solid team. Our coaches are really hurting this team with their terrible calls and game management. You can see it in how RAC handles the game, him taking that penalty because last week he was called out for not taking one similar to it. He is not willing to take any risks and that is why he is a horrible coach.

[beyster]

I say trade DA and BE in a package deal for a number 1 and 3 picks to the Vikings.

Designate Lewis to back up duty or trade him to the Lions or Raiders, they'll take anybody.

 

Use the picks to draft another WR, RB and then continue to build the OL, you can always get a back up QB via free agency.

 

This of course is after you get a manly head coach such as Marty or Bill.

This team has no guts.

[Koa]

I dont think its rebuilding time, I think its tune up time. Get rid of our coaches first and foremost. like today would be great. Get us another solid WR, course JJ will be back next year and that will be nice. Get us a few more people on defense and we have a very solid team. Our coaches are really hurting this team with their terrible calls and game management. You can see it in how RAC handles the game, him taking that penalty because last week he was called out for not taking one similar to it. He is not willing to take any risks and that is why he is a horrible coach.

 

Sounds like a hell of a tune up.

[beyster]

Coaches:

Romeo Crennel must go. Get Cowher... Marty... Id even take Kiffin.

 

What about Shanahan?? Does anyone think Denver is really going to let him go at the end of this season?

 

And I hate that word...rebuilding.

 

 

He's not going anywhere, he'll Joe-Pa that Bronco sideline.

[eqrulz101]

I dont think its rebuilding time, I think its tune up time. Get rid of our coaches first and foremost. like today would be great. Get us another solid WR, course JJ will be back next year and that will be nice. Get us a few more people on defense and we have a very solid team. Our coaches are really hurting this team with their terrible calls and game management. You can see it in how RAC handles the game, him taking that penalty because last week he was called out for not taking one similar to it. He is not willing to take any risks and that is why he is a horrible coach.

 

Sounds like a hell of a tune up.

 

It is, but when I think of rebuilding, I think of a whole new team. I think we have alot of good players, this isnt like team Butch Davis had where everybody had to go. This offence in particular is pretty damn good, just needs a few twiks. Our defense is where most of the work needs to be done.

[beyster]

We'll be looking for a WR and a RB on offense... and a starting ILB and a cornerback on defense.

 

We have quality and depth on the DL. I like Jackson, but we need a serious playmaking linebacker. Maybe Bell is a stuffer, but we'll see.

 

McDonald needs to go back to the slot and we need a serious veteran cornerback opposite Wright, who is getting very good.

 

Anderson gets us a three, I think.

 

We might be looking at Hall.

[Guest AdaM]

Hall? Doubt it. At least I wouldn't.

 

We need to draft not pull an Oakland

[eqrulz101]

We'll be looking for a WR and a RB on offense... and a starting ILB and a cornerback on defense.

 

We have quality and depth on the DL. I like Jackson, but we need a serious playmaking linebacker. Maybe Bell is a stuffer, but we'll see.

 

McDonald needs to go back to the slot and we need a serious veteran cornerback opposite Wright, who is getting very good.

 

Anderson gets us a three, I think.

 

We might be looking at Hall.

 

Heh, doubt it that means someone would be willing to take a chance.

[WPB Dawg Fan]

I think it is not even CLOSE to rebuilding time...but we have some changes that need to be made...

 

Coaches:

1) Tucker was a great DB coach...but he seems to be play calling to PROTECT his DB's instead of letting them play their position.

2) The new DB coach is obviously out of his element. He is putting the DB's in packages that are not capable of doing the job. He is crowding the line with the S's and they are not getting the reads correct to give deep coverage. Either he sucks or our S's suddenly suck after being pretty good last year...so I go with what changed...he sucks!

3) RAC may be 'level headed' and 'a players coach', but he is far from a good coach. He lacks decisiveness and has poor clock management skills. I don't see players with any fire in the belly.

4) Chud seems to have an aversion to Harrison. JH ripped Denver for huge gains on consecutive plays in the first quarter...and then never touched the ball again. I just don't get it.

 

Offensive Players:

1) #3 WR - (not counting on JJ...and he is 1 yr more if that anyway). This can be gotten in the mid to late rounds in the draft...so no big deal. Besides, on the WR front, BQ has a relationship with Sanders....and that may develop into him being a solid #3 without drafting again.

2) RB - JL is fine for this year, but we need a guy to grow with BQ. Harrison is a great change of pace guy (who needs to be used more often), so we need to find a solid guy to rotate with him (I don't want a guy who NEEDS 20 carries). This also can be gotten from round 3 and later.

 

We need a couple of OL developmental players (probably a C), but for the most part our OL is pretty solid with youngish guys. We are also set at TE.

 

Defensive Players

1) LB's - definitely an issue. This should be our #1 priority!!! McGinnest can still get things done on occasion, but he is too old to be consistent and is gone after this year anyway. Hall is exciting, but he is also out of position more times than I can count. Wimbley is getting manhandled out there. Davis is just not the player he used to be...and that was never top level to begin with. DQ is a nice player...but he is basically Davis revisited...lots of tackles...but all of the line. I want to see B.Bell in there soon so we know what we have with him...and I want to see Hall utilized more so he can develop. I don't want to rely on Peek coming back and being healthy as he hasn't proven he can do that yet.

4) DB's - As I said, I think our DB issue is primarily a coaching/youth issue. Tucker had them playing well with nobodies...but now they seem to be out of position far to often...Even McDonald noticed it on the play he got torched on. It is primarily the S's out of position, so this may be a result of the crappy LB play!!!

 

I think our DL is a lot stronger than it looks...but it has been decimated. Williams has been playing injured since the start of the season (shoulder) and now Rogers (ribs) is hurting (he disappeared last night). On top of that S.Smith was out for weeks with his broken hand and R.Smith is on the IR. Rubin is getting better and Leonard is showing some promise...but I still would like to see us get a guy in the 295-310 range that can show some side-to-side mobility at the DE position....maybe Pittman can give us that next year.

 

I don't see this as a blow up...because I don't think we have RAC at the end of this year...and that will mean other coaching changes. That along with a first round LB...and maybe even a 2nd rd LB as well...and then fill in with a RB, WR, DB...and we should be fine player wise.

[Guest AdaM]

I agree with a lot of your points. But we do need a rebuild. Changing all the coaches and ditching unproductive players is a rebuild. Its not a scrap the roster and start over time, but its definitely more than a tune-up.

[listercat]

I would package DA along with BE for as high round picks as possible; we have many holes to fill and these two tools we should dish while they still have market value

[choco]

still need to see more of bq before ya label him a franchise qb. one game, against a injury-devastated team, does not a fanchise qb make.

[Pumpkin Eater]

they'd be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for both of them.

[hoorta]

Great post WPB.

 

I really feel coaching is the largest part of this teams problems. Ofcourse we need a few more good players, if we didn't, we'd be leading the division.

 

I'd get rid of RAC and Tucker for sure...

 

On Chud, and again, this just may be my true feelings fro Crennel coming out. But I still wonder how much of the play calling and non use of Harrison is Chud himself, or Chud doing what RAC wants? It just seems weird to me there can be so many play calls that I see (especially early in games or in blow outs) that look so good, but then when things get tight, it reverts back to the passive, no risk playcalling.

 

Ditto to WPB.

 

Yeah, the under use of Harrison is baffling. On the guy's first 4 touches- he averages 10 yards per touch. The coaching staff ever hear of play the hand that's hot? Coaching 101- if you're doing something the other team can't stop, you keep doing it until they do stop it. And with a more mobile qb in Quinn they don't need to worry about Harrison's lack of pass blocking ability as much. Personally, I'd use Harrison as the starting rb, and demote Lewis to the Jerome Bettis role. You need pass blocking, shuffle Heiden back there for blitz protect.

[Pumpkin Eater]

Anderson sucks so bad that he has negative value, if BE was worth a second rounder, throw in DA and the value drops to a third rounder.

[Breeze]

Whoever thinks we should trade braylon is stupid

he still takes on double teams and plays well

yes he has dropped a ton of passes but its not like he can't go back to how he played last year

drops are fixable

and who are we going to play in his place?

Steptoe? Sanders? Hubbard? or another rookie

we need to rebuild the defense not trade away pro bowl caliber players

[Guest AdaM]

Not a very good first post.

 

So explain to me why we should hold onto BE when:

1. He is a headcase

2. His drops are NOT fixable. He has been labled a drop-artist since he played at Michigan and everyone knows this except you apparently.

3. He gets way too many false start penalties.

4. He Pouts when the ball doesn't come his way.

 

Did you notice last night he DROPPED the first ball thrown to him? And only got 2 other throws after that? Thats because Quinn realizes he can't rely on him like he can K2. Who also has some issues.

[Breeze]

Not a very good first post.

 

So explain to me why we should hold onto BE when:

1. He is a headcase

2. His drops are NOT fixable. He has been labled a drop-artist since he played at Michigan and everyone knows this except you apparently.

3. He gets way too many false start penalties.

4. He Pouts when the ball doesn't come his way.

 

Did you notice last night he DROPPED the first ball thrown to him? And only got 2 other throws after that? Thats because Quinn realizes he can't rely on him like he can K2. Who also has some issues.

 

well this is my first post on the new board but i have been a member on the old board for years but did not post often,

my point is if you trade him you will hurt the team more than you would have if you kept him

i do know people labled him as a "drop artist", but were you making these posts last year?

No he played at a level of the top WR's in the league

you dont just play like shit overnight...he is still a very good reciever, and its only his 4th year

[WPB Dawg Fan]

BE/K2 had very little time together with BQ...and it showed.

 

While K2 got a ton of catches...it was designed to go that route...and short passes are a more 'direct' pass as opposed to the timing you have to have with the WR on long passes.

 

As for BE's dropsies....I think a large part of that is due to DA...and I have said this since the beginning. DA's lack of accuracy has given BE a complex. He is gator arming passes...and looking over his shoulder to see where the BIG HIT is coming from.

 

I saw the OLD BE in the catch nullified by K2's PI penalty. He seemed to be willing to go up and lay out for that pass....because K2 had caught 10 passes without getting lit up or laid out by a BQ pass in my opinion. I think that you will see a DRASTIC reduction in dropped passes by BE and ALL the WR's on this club. Especially when they realize they are getting passes in stride and can get YAC without getting killed.

 

I don't trade BE or K2. I keep them both, unless we get a killer offer for K2 and Rucker is ready to step in at a high level.

 

I do look to trade DA (based on BQ's performance the rest of the year) and I look to pick up a veteran DB...but otherwise I stick with this team and go into the draft for the remaining pieces.

[Riffer X]

Agree again WPB....(I seem to agree with you alot )

 

If you could pacakage DA and Winslow and get a great deal...I might do that one....We have some TEs behind K2 that can play...at this moment you have nothing behind BE...you just have to hope we see that change you talk about with BQ at the helm

 

I find myself not posting to John that much because we basically agree on everything down the line.

[WPB Dawg Fan]

Agree again WPB....(I seem to agree with you alot )

 

If you could pacakage DA and Winslow and get a great deal...I might do that one....We have some TEs behind K2 that can play...at this moment you have nothing behind BE...you just have to hope we see that change you talk about with BQ at the helm

 

I find myself not posting to John that much because we basically agree on everything down the line.

 

Yeah but sometimes it might be nice for him to know it!

 

Appreciate it guys...it is kinda nice to know that it's because you agree (and not because I am just full of sh*t) that I don't get responses!!!

 

Anyway...in the coming weeks I think we are going to have a much clearer picture (at least offensively) of what we have.

 

I expect Harrison to continue to get more and more touches (and JL not as many, as he will not likely be in the BIG picture next year). I expect Steptoe and Sanders to both get more looks over the next weeks as well. They have a relationship with BQ from the practice squad and will have better timing with him...so when the coaches cut BQ free he will likely look for them as a safety net.

 

I also think we may get a look at some of our young guys. Rubin has already cracked the rotation at DL, as has Leonard....but I think Bell may get some shots at ILB, and I think Hall may get increased looks at OLB. Look for Wimbley to be used more as a rover back instead of just a straight up OLB....with him moving side to side to create mismatches.

 

Personally, I want to see them bring up Pittman and try some 4/3...with Rogers/S.Smith at DT and Williams at one DE and Pittman/Leonard at the other. Rubin can rotate in at DT and Thomas can rotate in at DE to give a nice change of pace. As for LB's...DQ and Williams would be my choice at MLB, with Hall and Wimbley being the primary OLB's...spelled by McGinnest and Orr. I think that front 7 would be a bitch to run against...and would have tons of speed in the LB spot for coverage and lane clogging. Should free up the OLB's and S's on blitzes to get the QB as well.

[Guest Masters]

I think until all the d-line guys are healthy, the 4-3 thing is too much to ask.

 

It will be very interesting to see Quinn on MNF against a good defense and see how he holds up.

 

Agreed.

 

Also with you WPD. I am another who quite enjoys reading your posts. I am sure you are like me and are a bit indifferent to if people give you a pat on the back for good posts (of course compliments are always nice).

[rich4eagle]

We just aren't going to make this group of players into a championship team. We have a solid group of guys I would like to keep around but the reality is... we need a lot of help.

 

Coaches:

Romeo Crennel must go. Get Cowher... Marty... Id even take Kiffin.

 

one more time Cowher would never work for Savage and I doubt that Marty would either

 

Mel Tucker. 9 Games into the season he is still making poor choices. Please tell me why WILLIE MCGINNIST is "covering" a wr?

 

Please tell me why McGinest is on this team.......Phil .Romeo any answers?

 

Who is responsible for the terrible 3rd/4th down calls? Is it Romeo or Chud?

 

 

Offense:

 

It appears we have found our franchise QB in Brady Quinn. This issue should now be put to bed, we have to focus on other things. I can live with the dink and dunk, thats chuds fault not bradys.

 

This is not put to bed! Quinn had a great first game considering. He also played great against lousy teams with overmatched D's in college and choked big in big games against good D's in college! If he plays like he did last night against teams with real D's and teams that are winners then the issue will be closed, of course not until he wins some playoff games!

 

I'm pretty happy with the Oline, time will make it gradually better barring injury.

 

you should be happy with a 100 million dollar oline at the expense of all other positions!

 

Trade Braylon. He's a whiny little bitch and we would be better off with a high draft pick. Package him and DA for a 1st?

 

Everything else is good, I like the players we have and their abilities on offense.

 

 

Defense:

 

We have a couple good linemen.. Rogers, Smith(s). I thought Jackson was the only one to play well last night. McGinnist should retire, immediately. Davis.. go away. Wimbly... get back to rookie form please. Alex Hall is a keeper, Sure would like to see more of Beau Bell.

 

pretty good take

 

Secondary:

 

Brodney Pool sucks. Brandon McDonald used to show promise, now he's terrible. I like Sean Jones but he's still too raw. Eric Wright is a keeper. Did Adams play yet or is he still out? I didn't see him if he was playing. But I like Adams too.

 

the DB's .......Savage inherited and dumped were better and are better than this crew

 

 

This team needs to change its approach to building. They need to realize you have to build from within through the draft. Savage needs to quit trading away our picks and sticking us with hopes of finding a Diamond in the rough.

 

Savage is a lousy GM and the foremost problem on this team......we are now done with year four in a ten year rebuilding program

 

Thanks for the burger Ed, if not for having that in my stomach this defense would have made me puke.

 

Ed is the greatest.........a real fan and runs the best tailgate in history......he would be a better GM than Savage

 

/Rant

[Guest AdaM]

Rich, now that you don't seem to be infatuated with posting as many smilies in your posts as possible we can talk some football.

 

I definitely agree about Ed... I wonder if we can start some type of "Fire Savage" chant at the next home game?

[rich4eagle]

Well I have not attended a game since 06 but if I can help get the fire Savage chant started hell...........I will come to every game until we get that done

 

 

He is a loser and bullshitted all to thinking he amounted to more than a hill of beans

 

This team is no better than what he inherited as we speak.........worse on D..........a little better on O

[Guest AdaM]

Anyone have any direct connections to Lerner?

 

We need to tell him to fire savage / rac and give Cowher as much money as it takes to get him here.

[hoorta]

BE/K2 had very little time together with BQ...and it showed.

 

While K2 got a ton of catches...it was designed to go that route...and short passes are a more 'direct' pass as opposed to the timing you have to have with the WR on long passes.

 

As for BE's dropsies....I think a large part of that is due to DA...and I have said this since the beginning. DA's lack of accuracy has given BE a complex. He is gator arming passes...and looking over his shoulder to see where the BIG HIT is coming from.

 

I saw the OLD BE in the catch nullified by K2's PI penalty. He seemed to be willing to go up and lay out for that pass....because K2 had caught 10 passes without getting lit up or laid out by a BQ pass in my opinion. I think that you will see a DRASTIC reduction in dropped passes by BE and ALL the WR's on this club. Especially when they realize they are getting passes in stride and can get YAC without getting killed.

 

I don't trade BE or K2. I keep them both, unless we get a killer offer for K2 and Rucker is ready to step in at a high level.

 

I do look to trade DA (based on BQ's performance the rest of the year) and I look to pick up a veteran DB...but otherwise I stick with this team and go into the draft for the remaining pieces.

 

Agree with you on the receivers getting gator arms because DA was leading them right into kill shots.

 

Disagree on us getting more than a hill of beans for Anderson. Every team in the NFL knows damn well (assuming Quinn plays decently the rest of the way out) that the Browns aren't going to pay DA his $5 mil roster bonus come March. They'll sit it out.