WPB Dawg Fan Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Everyone talks about Jerome Harrison as being too small, and incapable of being an every down back. I have a few things for you all to look at that says PHOOEY!!! Did you see last week? 121 yards on 29 carries. Looked like a starter. He also IMPROVED his per yard average in his second 10 carries by almost 2 yards per carry. Further, he was able to add 5 receptions for a total of 34 touches during the game...and was still running strong at the end. Oh, and as an aside, take a look at Chris Johnson, 5'11" 200 lbs, who currently leads the league in rushing yards and is averaging 17 carries a game. (JH is 5'9", 205.) There are a couple other little guys near the top of the rushing stats as well. I like him....and with Jennings and Davis showing signs of moving the ball...I am not sure RB is a big need going into next year even if JL is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Totally agree with you about Harrison. It's another reason IMHO that Romeo is unemployed right now. The guy deserves a chance to prove he is an every down back. Lewis is at the end of the line, and it sure would be nice if we didn't have to add RB to our shopping list come April. You can't always get lucky the way the Bengals did with Cedric Benson. These little guys weren't too shabby either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farang Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 It looked to me like he can be an every down back, except for goal line situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 It looked to me like he can be an every down back, except for goal line situations. That's what you keep Jamal Lewis around for, if he's willing to work cheap next year. O you just use Vickers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadWombat Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 I've been a fan of Harrison for years... I've always wanted to see him play. But somehow in the back of my mind I have this fear that Mangini is going to continue to start J-Lew, just like Crenel did. Arg, where's the puking smiley when you need it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl4tinum Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 that's bceause belichik hand-me-downs cant think for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest c-dawg Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Harrison too small? Shit guys, look at this: Willie Parker | #39 | RB. Pittsburgh Steelers | Official Team Site. Height: 5-10 Weight: 209 Jerome Harrison | #35 | RB. Cleveland Browns | Official Team Site. Height: 5-9 Weight: 205 Enough said. Put a five lb weight in his pocket and GET HIM THE FREAKING BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Too small....damn, that's just dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sez.EJ Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Let's see how he holds up..then we'll know. Jamal is likely down again this week.. I side on the too small side..but let's see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdaM Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 so you pick the guy on Pittsburgh team with the injury history? Barry Sanders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Harrison's going to have another strong week. Mark it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Banks Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Everyone talks about Jerome Harrison as being too small, and incapable of being an every down back. I have a few things for you all to look at that says PHOOEY!!! Did you see last week? 121 yards on 29 carries. Looked like a starter. He also IMPROVED his per yard average in his second 10 carries by almost 2 yards per carry. Further, he was able to add 5 receptions for a total of 34 touches during the game...and was still running strong at the end. Oh, and as an aside, take a look at Chris Johnson, 5'11" 200 lbs, who currently leads the league in rushing yards and is averaging 17 carries a game. (JH is 5'9", 205.) There are a couple other little guys near the top of the rushing stats as well. I like him....and with Jennings and Davis showing signs of moving the ball...I am not sure RB is a big need going into next year even if JL is gone. I heard a report from Browns "insider" (Andre Knott) that Harrison was really hurting at the beginning of his week from his heavy work load. Time will tell. I think he goes down on contact too easily to be an elite back. Cribbs on the other hand would seem to have the complete package of tools to be a featured back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Banks Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Harrison's going to have another strong week. Mark it. He better. Miami rolled up 250 yards rushing on the Bills last week. They are absent their best LBer and both starting safeties. We need to show that we can run the ball effectively and then go over the top. If we can run the ball, this game sets up pretty nice. Mack had a pretty nice game last week. If he continues to improve and we get Hadnot back, this running game might pick up. I'd like to see Jennings get more touches and I'd REALLY like to see Cribbs get at least a series as a RB. If not a series, they could come out in a four wide set and have him motion behind Vickers into an I. He'd likely be running against at least a nickel package. You'd think that Vickers would be a good guy to keep back in protection too. He's capable of slipping out of the backfield and catching a ball to keep the defense honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaak Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I heard a report from Browns "insider" (Andre Knott) that Harrison was really hurting at the beginning of his week from his heavy work load. Time will tell. I think he goes down on contact too easily to be an elite back. Cribbs on the other hand would seem to have the complete package of tools to be a featured back. Will you fricken stop talking about Cribbs as a featured back?! Nobody who is anybody is talking about that happening. So stop talking about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Will you fricken stop talking about Cribbs as a featured back?! Nobody who is anybody is talking about that happening. So stop talking about it! I just love the notion that a guy who has been an every down back through college and I'm guessing HS can't be, but a guy who spent his career at QB can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemosley01 Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Harrison will toughen up as he plays more. When you are only getting in for 6 plays a game (or fewer) it's not wonder you're hurting after getting most of the load a single week later. He'll toughen up or prove he can't carry the load - either way you have to play the guy to find out. I've never seen a team so reluctant to play guys that have proven to be playmakers. It's almost like they are afraid they'll use them up so they need to be saved for when the Superbowl plays in the balance. Maybe they should be reminded that at least a .500 record is requisite to get into the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Banks Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I just love the notion that a guy who has been an every down back through college and I'm guessing HS can't be, but a guy who spent his career at QB can be. Kind of like a guy who was a power forward in high school being a pro bowl TE -- Gates Or a guy who was a QB in college being a pro bowl WR -- Ward Cribbs could have played major D-1 college as a RB easily. He went to a college that would allow him to play QB . . . but he specialized in running the ball! College Statistics * 2001: 131/238 (55.0%) for 1516 yards and 10 TD vs. 5 INT. 164 carries for 1192 yards and 5 TD. * 2002: 91/186 (48.9%) for 1014 yards and 4 TD vs. 14 INT. 137 carries for 1057 yards and 10 TD. * 2003: 178/364 (48.9%) for 2424 yards and 14 TD vs. 9 INT. 161 carries for 701 yards and 14 TD. * 2004: 216/335 (64.5%) for 2215 yards and 17 TD vs. 6 INT. 170 carries for 893 yards and 9 TD. Yeah, that's almost 4000 yards rushing in college. 1200 more than Harrison. Running the ball is not foreign to him. He runs with speed, power and vision. But I guess it's ridiculous to think it might be a good thing to get our most explosive player 15 touches a game as a RB as opposed to a WR. Aren't you the one that's always bitching about Cribbs playing receiver Masters? Harrison will not last six games in the NFL getting 26 carries a game. This ain't the PAC 10. They have Jennings and an over-the-hill Lewis behind Harrison. Now why is getting Cribbs some rushes a bad idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB&J Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 NO back in the nfl will last 6 games of 26 carries in the NFL. Every year, hardly any backs even average over 20 carries per game. Harrison was pretty gassed out there on sunday not because he doesn't have what it takes, but because he played four quarters of offense and both kick coverage and returns. Take the starting running back off of returns and coverage and he might not be hurting so much of monday and tuesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Kind of like a guy who was a power forward in high school being a pro bowl TE -- Gates Or a guy who was a QB in college being a pro bowl WR -- Ward Cribbs could have played major D-1 college as a RB easily. He went to a college that would allow him to play QB . . . but he specialized in running the ball! College Statistics * 2001: 131/238 (55.0%) for 1516 yards and 10 TD vs. 5 INT. 164 carries for 1192 yards and 5 TD. * 2002: 91/186 (48.9%) for 1014 yards and 4 TD vs. 14 INT. 137 carries for 1057 yards and 10 TD. * 2003: 178/364 (48.9%) for 2424 yards and 14 TD vs. 9 INT. 161 carries for 701 yards and 14 TD. * 2004: 216/335 (64.5%) for 2215 yards and 17 TD vs. 6 INT. 170 carries for 893 yards and 9 TD. Yeah, that's almost 4000 yards rushing in college. 1200 more than Harrison. Running the ball is not foreign to him. He runs with speed, power and vision. But I guess it's ridiculous to think it might be a good thing to get our most explosive player 15 touches a game as a RB as opposed to a WR. Aren't you the one that's always bitching about Cribbs playing receiver Masters? Harrison will not last six games in the NFL getting 26 carries a game. This ain't the PAC 10. They have Jennings and an over-the-hill Lewis behind Harrison. Now why is getting Cribbs some rushes a bad idea? I'll just pretend you didn't try to compare someone playing TE or WR to playing RB. All day different as far as physicality and hits you will take. Unless your point was Ward could play RB and Gates could play RB. Yes, that's 4000 yards over 4 years of starting, and rushing on option plays off the edge. Harrison was 1 years of starting and 1 year as a back up. Hmmmm..... 2 year stat vs. 4 year stats. RB in the Pac-10 vs. option QB in the MAC. I keep hearing Cribbs as the most explosive player, and that is true on special teams. But out side of on special teams, when has he been explosive on offense when they have gotten him the ball? The occasional reverse and that's about it. And what does my complaints that Cribbs is not a WR have to do with this? Other than to go to show CLE needs to quit spending time trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Which is what making him a RB would again be. Getting Cribbs the ball is not a bad thing. Trying for make him a RB and having him try rushing as a RB 15 times a game is not. This is similar to when they tried to make Metcalf more than a great ST player or the Ice Cube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 hardly any backs even average over 20 carries per game. Portis, Turner, Jackson, Forte, and Lewis are a few I can name who averaged around 20 carries a game last year. Roughly 20 is about what the primary back for most teams gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Banks Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I'll just pretend you didn't try to compare someone playing TE or WR to playing RB. All day different as far as physicality and hits you will take. Unless your point was Ward could play RB and Gates could play RB. No, my first point was that just because a guy didn't play a certain position in college doesn't mean he can't play it in the pros. I later made the point that Cribbs took 4 years and 4,000 yards worth of hits in college. Are you trying to say with a straight face that you believe Harrison is a more "physical" guy than Cribbs. Really? Do you watch the games? We don't have a more physical player. He's gunner on special teams. Other than an old-fashioned wedge buster there's not a more violent role on an NFL team. Yes, that's 4000 yards over 4 years of starting, and rushing on option plays off the edge. Harrison was 1 years of starting and 1 year as a back up. Hmmmm..... 2 year stat vs. 4 year stats. RB in the Pac-10 vs. option QB in the MAC. So, just to get it straight . . . you are basing your statement that Harrison can be an every down back in the NFL based on the fact that he held up through one year of college, right. Fact is that Kent State's line is better than the team they are playing like two times during the season. Cribbs had 100 yards on 21 carries against OSU the year they won the National Championship. He single-handedly kept his team in that game for a half. I keep hearing Cribbs as the most explosive player, and that is true on special teams. But out side of on special teams, when has he been explosive on offense when they have gotten him the ball? The occasional reverse and that's about it. Other than his explosive return ability, Cribs has 70 touches and two TDs in his time here. Harrison has 163 touches and two TDs. And, really, the whole team was stagnant with Quinn at the helm. Who had impressive offensive numbers? Cribbs didn't get the chance to play with Anderson that much last week. Who knows what he might do if a QB is able to get him the ball in space? At least twice in the early season he was open on a deep out route to convert a third down and Quinn delivered a miserably inaccurate pass that sailed high and outside after trying to muscle up on a throw that he's not comfortable making. And what does my complaints that Cribbs is not a WR have to do with this? Other than to go to show CLE needs to quit spending time trying to force a square peg into a round hole. Which is what making him a RB would again be. Oh, I forgot . . . Cribbs returned kicks and punts in college and was the gunner on the special teams units, right? Getting Cribbs the ball is not a bad thing. Trying for make him a RB and having him try rushing as a RB 15 times a game is not. This is similar to when they tried to make Metcalf more than a great ST player or the Ice Cube. Harrison reminds me of Metcalf much more than Cribbs. Not a Harrison hater . . . but the easy TD Cincy got on the ball they stripped from Harrison was the difference in that game. Cribbs almost willed a win with his kick returns. He needs more touches to impact the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sez.EJ Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Kind of like a guy who was a power forward in high school being a pro bowl TE -- Gates Or a guy who was a QB in college being a pro bowl WR -- Ward Cribbs could have played major D-1 college as a RB easily. He went to a college that would allow him to play QB . . . but he specialized in running the ball! College Statistics * 2001: 131/238 (55.0%) for 1516 yards and 10 TD vs. 5 INT. 164 carries for 1192 yards and 5 TD. * 2002: 91/186 (48.9%) for 1014 yards and 4 TD vs. 14 INT. 137 carries for 1057 yards and 10 TD. * 2003: 178/364 (48.9%) for 2424 yards and 14 TD vs. 9 INT. 161 carries for 701 yards and 14 TD. * 2004: 216/335 (64.5%) for 2215 yards and 17 TD vs. 6 INT. 170 carries for 893 yards and 9 TD. Yeah, that's almost 4000 yards rushing in college. 1200 more than Harrison. Running the ball is not foreign to him. He runs with speed, power and vision. But I guess it's ridiculous to think it might be a good thing to get our most explosive player 15 touches a game as a RB as opposed to a WR. Aren't you the one that's always bitching about Cribbs playing receiver Masters? Harrison will not last six games in the NFL getting 26 carries a game. This ain't the PAC 10. They have Jennings and an over-the-hill Lewis behind Harrison. Now why is getting Cribbs some rushes a bad idea? Ummm cuz he's not a running back? He's never practiced at running back, he's still trying (unsuccessfully) to be a reciever, we already have guys who actually play the position of runningback, the coaching staff has no intentions of playing him at running back, cribbs has never mentioned playing running back, nor has anyone else on the browns ever mentioned him being a running back.. he's also not a safety or cornerback. He is a special teams guy..that's it. he "attempts" to play reciever and runs the WildDawg on rare occasion. And I'll quote your reference above on Harrison not being able to hold up.." this ain't the Pac-10"... Regarding Cribbs" This ain't the MAC either" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Masters Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 "No, my first point was that just because a guy didn't play a certain position in college doesn't mean he can't play it in the pros. I later made the point that Cribbs took 4 years and 4,000 yards worth of hits in college. Are you trying to say with a straight face that you believe Harrison is a more "physical" guy than Cribbs. Really? Do you watch the games? We don't have a more physical player. He's gunner on special teams. Other than an old-fashioned wedge buster there's not a more violent role on an NFL team" And just because there are a handful of exceptions, doesn't mean it is the norm. Hit's as a option QB are not the same as those of guys who take the rock at RB and have to run between the tackles. Physical doesn't have a lot to do w/ a guys ability to sustain those blows, or continue to run with that same effert touch after touch when getting those hits, as well as the hits a RB will take in pass protection. The notion that because a guy can make takes on special teams or find a crease in returns can be a RB is just don't jive. How many of those returns does Cribbs go vertually untouched? When he's had his "physical runs", who is it he's stiff arming to the ground? That's right some CB. More violent roll in the NFL than gunner? How about anywhere across either line, MLB, RB, and saftey. Maybe Cribbs should be tried at all those. "So, just to get it straight . . . you are basing your statement that Harrison can be an every down back in the NFL based on the fact that he held up through one year of college, right. Fact is that Kent State's line is better than the team they are playing like two times during the season. Cribbs had 100 yards on 21 carries against OSU the year they won the National Championship. He single-handedly kept his team in that game for a half." *sigh* only if you chose to twist it into that. Harrison held up in a tough conference playing the roll of RB. Taking RB hits regularly at the line, which an option QB does not take over and over again. OSU isn't exactly a good example, since they are notoriously bad against the option, including that year. We can go back to your Ward example, or even drag out Randel El, teams didn't make them a RB, but they had a ton of success as running QBs. Why? Because success as a running QB doesn't translate directly to ability to be a RB. Not to mention running style doesn't translate. The upright running Cribbs does on special teams or when he was an option QB spells big hits and easy leg tackes for DL, LBs, and physical safteys. "Other than his explosive return ability, Cribs has 70 touches and two TDs in his time here. Harrison has 163 touches and two TDs. And, really, the whole team was stagnant with Quinn at the helm. Who had impressive offensive numbers? Cribbs didn't get the chance to play with Anderson that much last week. Who knows what he might do if a QB is able to get him the ball in space? At least twice in the early season he was open on a deep out route to convert a third down and Quinn delivered a miserably inaccurate pass that sailed high and outside after trying to muscle up on a throw that he's not comfortable making." Stats in a vaccume. One of those TDs is receiving to boot. I have no idea why you are going down the Quinn route, other than to change the subject. He has no baring on this discussion. There is a reason Cribbs suddenly saw little time at WR this past week, and had nothing to do w/ QBs. It's his inablity to play WR, plain and simple. I don't recall any of those plays you describe, other than one where Cribbs was covered and their was saftey help and the ball was obviously thrown away. I do recall Cribbs dropping first down passes and fumbling after he caught one. "Oh, I forgot . . . Cribbs returned kicks and punts in college and was the gunner on the special teams units, right?" Asking a guy to catch the ball dropping from the sky then run like a wild man isn't even in the same county. That's grasping imo. "Harrison reminds me of Metcalf much more than Cribbs. Not a Harrison hater . . . but the easy TD Cincy got on the ball they stripped from Harrison was the difference in that game. Cribbs almost willed a win with his kick returns. He needs more touches to impact the game." There is nothing similar about Harrison and Metcalf, other than maybe their height. You want to focus in on that fumble why? Cribbs fumbles at WR and has on return. Didn't AP just get stripped like Harrison on MNF? Yes Cribbs did that on returns. That doesn't me he can or will in regular games. If he was going to, by now we would have seen a flash of it in the times he has gotten the ball on O. The guy has a roll and he excels at it. Leave him there. After we all, we have already seen trying him at WR lessened his return impact, and removed him from being a gunner. Same would occur if he's being used at RB instead of WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Banks Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Ummm cuz he's not a running back? He's never practiced at running back, he's still trying (unsuccessfully) to be a reciever, we already have guys who actually play the position of runningback, the coaching staff has no intentions of playing him at running back, cribbs has never mentioned playing running back, nor has anyone else on the browns ever mentioned him being a running back.. he's also not a safety or cornerback. He is a special teams guy..that's it. he "attempts" to play reciever and runs the WildDawg on rare occasion. And I'll quote your reference above on Harrison not being able to hold up.." this ain't the Pac-10"... Regarding Cribbs" This ain't the MAC either" Okay, yeah. Furrey played safety in the cover 3 last week but it's ridiculous to think that a guy that rushed for 4000 yards in college could get some touches at RB. You guys are exactly right. In case you didn't know, the WildDawg is just the single wing. When Cribbs runs the WildDawg he is lining up as a running back. But the way we've run in, everyone knows that he is going to run the ball. As to the "other guys" I think we are one or two more overuses of Harrison from being down to a guy that was on a Canadian football league PRACTICE SQUAD a month ago. Harrison sat almost all season with an ankle injury, BTW. Lewis looked slow already and the leg injuries that 30 year old running backs are now coming. They waived Peerman and Davis is on the IR. If not Cribbs, it's time to prepare some kind of Plan B. Who's out on the scrap heap for us to bring in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Banks Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Your counter arguments are just getting silly now. Like getting a low pad level is some art that has to be studied in the mountains of Tibet? Like the guys on the coverage teams -- linebackers, safeties and corners aren't on those teams because they can tackle? It isn't a linebacker, safety or corner that's taking Harrison down on first contact? RB is the easiest position to learn on the field. Running the ball is vision and letting your blocks set up. Cribbs is excellent at those things. The cerebral part is protection schemes. That's why Harrison has seen so little of the field in prior years -- because they didn't feel they could trust him either because he lacked the knowledge, the physical ability, or just the stones. One would assume that an ex QB would actually have an advantage learning the protections. God knows the kid has the stones. Let's just sit back and see how many games Harrison lasts an an effective every-down back. If he proves me (and most people) wrong we all win. I just doubt it will happen. Nice change of pace guy, either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopaji Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 I heard a report from Browns "insider" (Andre Knott) that Harrison was really hurting at the beginning of his week from his heavy work load. Time will tell. I think he goes down on contact too easily to be an elite back. Cribbs on the other hand would seem to have the complete package of tools to be a featured back. Chip, I usually agree with you and I do about JH but the Cribbs thing needs to be put to bed. He is a returner and that's it . Here's why. He is strickly a straight ahead runner he doesn't have the ability to change direction in small areas which is why he made an aweful reciever. He can't get in and out of cuts quick enough. He is successful on returns because of his experience as a QB and seeing the whole field from the pocket. On returns, he gets to see the entire field and predetermine where he is going to go 15 yards ahead of time. That's why the moves he makes are at 45 degree angles because he can't make moves in tight spaces. On offense, you don't get that view of the field. Best return man in the league without a doubt. But that is all he should be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sez.EJ Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Chip: Give it up.. You can lobby all you want on this board.. You may even convince a guy or two.. But the BROWNS.. won't be playing Cribbs as a regular runningback in this lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPrepublic Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 On a side note talking about the Flash/WildDawg. Anyone else excited that we tried a flea flicker? Seemed pretty unconventional...also on a side note anyone see us do a QB Sneak on first down? Both ended rather badly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Fan Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 He better. Miami rolled up 250 yards rushing on the Bills last week. They are absent their best LBer and both starting safeties. We need to show that we can run the ball effectively and then go over the top. If we can run the ball, this game sets up pretty nice. Mack had a pretty nice game last week. If he continues to improve and we get Hadnot back, this running game might pick up. You're using the team that introduced, and perfected the W-cat to the NFL as the benchmark? Miami puts 250 on the ground on every one. Ronnie Brown is one of the most dangerous RB's in the game. And he can throw ropes if he needs to. As for Ricky Williams (sing to the Afro-man tune: b/c I got high), "I was gonna be the next Emmitt Smith, but then I got high. I couldn't keep my face off a spliff, because I was high. Now I'm in Miami and I know why (yeah yeah) because I got high, because I got high, because I got high." And after all of that, he can still run the rock. I'm not going to get into the Cribbs @ RB situation, but Miami runs all over everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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