And Now For Something Positive

[Frenchie]

 

I am fed up with reading all the negativity on this board. I saw the same 6-3 game but I am starting to feel positive about this team. Am I the only one seeing the transformation?

 

1) The team is 1-4 right? Do you know the combined record of the teams that have beaten us? 17-3. And one of the losses is because two teams played each other (so one had to win and one had to lose). Removing that, it's 16-2!

 

2) Are the Browns 1-4? Or are they really 1-3-1. It seems to most people (including myself) like the Bengal game was a tie. We tied the division leading team.

 

3) DA didn't have a great game against the Bills and neither did our recievers. But I thought it was the best game the O-Line has played and that the entire D and Specialty Teams played. Lewis gained over 100 yards. Up the middle actually works! The D made big tackles all game long.

 

There are plenty of things to work on - especially the passing game, and a pass rush. For now, I'm staying positive and supporting our team.

[Lumbergh]

Here is something else I get a chuckle about.

 

The Browns played a 1-3 team this weekend.

 

Kellen Winslow's new team played a 1-3 team this weekend.

 

Braylon Edwards' new team played a 1-3 team this weekend.

 

 

The Browns won and those effers both lost. Haha.

[WPB Dawg Fan]

Here is something else I get a chuckle about.

 

The Browns played a 1-3 team this weekend.

 

Kellen Winslow's new team played a 1-3 team this weekend.

 

Braylon Edwards' new team played a 1-3 team this weekend.

 

 

The Browns won and those effers both lost. Haha.

THAT is nice stuff!!!

[NW Ohio Brownie]

Well, I'll agree with your point about the O-line. I thought the right side played its best game of the year by far.

 

Also, Mack is turning into a stud center. How many plays did he pull on Sunday and deliver a key block? How many centers in this league can really do that?

 

The running game looks like it's hitting its stride, too.

 

But, wow, do we need some good play at QB. Our third down conversion rate has to be the worst in the league. If, and it's a big if, we can be better than 50% on third downs from here on out, we'll win our share of games. We're getting manageable third downs, too, which makes it even more frustrating.

 

Also, can we at least give Mangini credit for one thing? On-field discipline. What the Bills did Sunday was what we'd been doing under Crennel. Stupid penalties at inopportune times. Remember the Giants game last year? We had three penalties on Sunday. One was the bullsh*t call on Williams. One was a PI on Wright when he played the man instead of the ball, and one was a holding penalty on special teams. So we had ZERO offensive penalties, two aggressive defensive penalties, and one non-descript ST penalty. That's discipline and that's discipline by coaching.

[Vegasdogg]

My approach is I want improvement. Getting beat by the Steelers is one thing. Having our asses handed to us in the same sorry assed manner we're used to is another thing entirely.

 

I came off the fire Mangini wagon just before the Cin game and said I'd give the following 3 weeks an objective eye. We cannot step backward this week. DA is not a guy you depend on in this game so everybody has to play complimentary ball and just do their job well.

 

The defense and special teams have picked up their play these two weeks and the run game has done the same. Time for Daboll and the passing game to do their part this week.

 

 

[NW Ohio Brownie]

Here's the rub.

 

I need someone to explain to me how getting rid of those two PREMIERE talents at their positions for what essentially equals mid-round (or blown) picks and spare parts makes us any better, now or in the future.

 

And I don't want to hear any "they are divas," "they are locker room cancers" garbage, because everyone here would say Randy Moss or Brandon Marshall is each of those things but would sacrifice their first born to have either of them on this roster.

 

I know I would.

 

 

mz the pussy,

 

Winslow is not a PREMIERE talent as you say. He's not a top-five TE in this league anymore. He's no Jason Witten, Dallas Clark, or Vernon Davis. And, for the record, I loved Winslow's competitive fire. He brought the right type of attitude ON the field, no question.

 

Edwards is a PREMIERE talent, but he's not a premiere producer. At least not yet. One good year in five doesn't make you Larry Fitzgerald, Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, or the other two guys you mentioned. No question Edwards would have continued to lack in production as long as he wore the Brown and Orange.

 

And another thing. Don't assume that EVERYONE would want Brandon Marshall and Randy Moss. How do you think they would perform in these circumstances?

 

This is just another part in the purging of this roster. Did we get better by trading these guys? No. But that's the short-term answer. Give these moves a broader viewpoint before you make a judgment.

[choco]

I need someone to explain to me how getting rid of those two PREMIERE talents at their positions for what essentially equals mid-round (or blown) picks and spare parts makes us any better, now or in the future.

it been posted here quite a few times.....you just dont like the answer.

 

NOW:

- you see braylon last night? i saw a guy that was catching with his hands, who went over the middle and took a few shots, and was blocking on running plays. when was the last time we've seen that from braylon?

 

- jets still lost....he still dropped a clutch catch....meaning, his impact is mostly perceived, not substantiated by any stats or measurables. the possibility of the treat was real, i can easily concede that....which may account for MoMass big day. then again, continually using the roster spot on a player that wasn't giving 100% and thus removing playing time from younger or otherwise more motivated players is a no-brainer when trying to get better thru youth rather than free agency.

 

- locker room moral....the cancer effect if you will.

 

- how are the bucs doing again? exactly.....KW2 is well past his prime....he may be better than anyone one our roster, but you're pretty insane if you think a pass catching tight end is gonna make or break this browns team. the talent level is surely less, but KW2 is not going to fix or otherwise cover up all the problems/shortcomings this team has at the moment.

 

FUTURE:

 

- draft picks...you cannot rebuild a team without picks, and we got 4 picks for these2 players...one of which was used on our seemingly new WR threat. unlike previous regimes, it seems like mankinis actually intends to build thru the draft, which is a xxxxing relief.

 

- money....meaning, the money we'd be wasting on these underperformers could be well used on new players in the future. this is also why quinns playing time doesn't fare well, as there's no way in hell they'll let his escalators catch up. you'll see ratliff before quinn. this is exactly why he wants a trade...which is simply more picks for us. see how build a franchise from a bunch of worthless players happens? get something for them before they reduce their stock or get hurt.....

 

- a solid core of players that buy in.....maybe the asshole persona isn't flashy and has everyone worried, but it wont always be this way. at this point, he's weeding out the guys who dont wanna play football. he wants his guys.....you're disagreement is that you think just because BE and KW2 have football talent, that they would use it here. sorry, but the coach and friend schtick has been tried and failed with those prima donnas.....why not give discipline a try?

 

 

 

overall, it looks to me that the team Rex Ryan inherited is a fairly solid team with depth, not a dominate team but they are competitive. moreover, many of the players drafted under manginis watch are still on the Jets (or browns) roster, or are at least in the league and playing elsewhere. how many wasted picks and busts have we seen in the last 10 years?

 

i can understand why everyone is so confused about whats going on....the vast majority have never seen a team properly rebuilt from the ground up, so no one knows the signs. as i've said before, this is exactly why i disagree with most things fans say.....cause the suck that has enveloped everyone has been around for so long that this process .

 

[choco]

you wanted answers.....you got them. just because you dont like them does not say anything about their validity.

 

your supporting argument is rather poor.....i figured you'd put more thought into it.....

[choco]

i already told you.

 

were we winning games with them? no?

 

what dont you understand?

 

tell me how we're better with them.......then tell me how that figures into the rebuilding scheme. or, are you not acknoledging the fact that BE did not want to be here, and could have been reflecting his desire in his performance?

[VaporTrail]

This argument is terrible. Both sides of it.

 

Braylon was walking anyways after this season. Be happy that we got ANYTHING for him. KW2... We're missing his hands for sure, but look at how much our running game has improved.

[NW Ohio Brownie]

Come on. Randy Moss plays for the premiere team of the decade and Brandon Marshall's team is 5-0. Guess the cancer didn't metastasize, guys. And Braylon and Kellen, by all accounts, weren't nearly as disruptive as those two...Mangini's fat ego got in the way IMO.

 

Winslow's not a premiere talent but Vernon freaking Davis is?

 

Winslow: 26 rec 257 yards 4 TD

Davis: 22 rec 262 yards 3 TD

 

Point taken (?).

 

Guess you're going to tell me Davis helps in the run game!

 

And Braylon is a premiere talent, yes, and COACHING harnesses that. Crennel sucked and Mangini sucks. Ryan already lit a fire under his ass, evidently. Braylon looked fantastic, just like he did in '07.

 

I've given the moves a "broader viewpoint" and what I see is a bunch of spare parts and mid-round draft picks. If THAT'S how you build a winner, then I guess I'm wrong.

 

You guys can justify these moves 'til you're blue in the face, but I will NEVER support either of these moves.

 

Exactly. How did Moss do when his team wasn't so hot? He tanked. Period. And Marshall's team is 5-0. Great. Again, HOW WOULD THEY DO UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES?? They would be pouty, whiney bitches who wouldn't produce a lick.

 

And your statistical comparison between Winslow and Davis is good. For today. For right now. Three years from now, Winslow will be struggling to keep his job. Davis will be a perennial Pro Bowler. Winslow's about two surgeries away from losing his career. It's a damn shame, but it is what it is.

 

You build a winner through the draft and gathering more picks is how you do it. More picks gives you more flexibility and the opportunity to take some chances. Nobody just hands over first-round picks unless you have equal talent to give back to them. You get what you can get while you can get it.

[choco]

for once, im not trying to be a dick. you cannot make someone try.......BE wanted out, thats his decision. mangini gave him his wish.....and both are happy about it.

[Earl34]

.Mangini's fat ego got in the way IMO.

 

No. Ego had nothing to do with it. Braylon Edwards didn't want to be a Cleveland Brown....and yes, the stories you heard about K2 and BE are true and then some. That's not my opinion. That's an observed fact.

 

[MDDawg]

This argument is terrible. Both sides of it.

 

Braylon was walking anyways after this season. Be happy that we got ANYTHING for him. KW2... We're missing his hands for sure, but look at how much our running game has improved.

What about our receiving game? 100+yards rushing against mediocre/weak defenses isn't something to get too excited about.

 

[choco]

What about our receiving game? 100+yards rushing against mediocre/weak defenses isn't something to get too excited about.

it was non-existant when he was here, and still is. some improvement is better than none.

[Frenchie]

What about our receiving game? 100+yards rushing against mediocre/weak defenses isn't something to get too excited about.

 

While I agree with this thread and its questioning of our passing attack and the need for the QB and receivers to get going, I am giving my kudos to the running game this past week. The weather reduced passing to a minimum and the teams understood from the beginning that this was to be smash-mouth football - stop the running game on defense and run the football on offense - let the better team win.

 

I also agree that we acted like a disciplined team and gave up few avoidable penalties.

[Guest Masters]

CLE ran the ball, but they sure didn't stop the run.

[DawgTracker]

I see progress too.

 

I don't care about losing Braylon. He was a great person to give money to cleveland schools but he wanted out and now he has his wish. He will be as focused as he can possibibly be for this year because his future millions depend upon it.

 

Kellen wanted a new, huge deal which the browns didn't think was a good investment. He has great hands and will play with a lot of pain but he will not get any better, and could start a downhill trend at any time.

 

If the team shows progress for the rest of the season we will have a tough team to beat by the season's end. We won't be glamorous but hopefully we can whittle down the list of key positions for next year to 4 or 5.