Fans Have Lost Perspective

[peterbell]

By the way, I would like to see that list of 26 guys Mangini has jettisoned, and which ones are or are not still in the league. You say there are only 4 of 26? Two of them would be Winslow and Edwards. Any more names?

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Edwards and Winslow were traded for draft picks and players.. they dont't count. That 2 for 26 is correct on cut or released players..Thats over half the freakin team from last year that can't get jobs because they are not NFL cailber players..That Browns fans, is what Phil Savage brought to the table..not Mangini..Mangini is not responsible for the last ten years and to expect a turn around in 9 months is idiotic. Your taking out 10 years of frustration on the coach that has been there 9 f**kin months!! Look, this has to be done logically and smartly..not with a hurry up attitude. and too think Mark Sanchez was the answer..watch some Jet games..

 

This team has a lot of holes to fill, 11 picks in the draft will of course help.Buying a team doesn't work, and that formula has proven not to work by the Redskins year after f**kin year. Building a winning program takes time and patience.

 

He's doing all he can do with this team and this situation. I'm not mad at Mangini, actually, I feel bad for him and am kind of happy he took this job. He got served shit soup and he has to turn it into Lobster Bisque in front 10 million people without panicking, that takes balls.

 

I could have not said it any better..f**kin perfect

[hoorta]

The QB thing is far more complicated than any of us will know. As far as the saying Mangini made a statement that we don't need a TE or WR, that is just wrong. It wasn't a statement, it was a move for the future. He traded two guys that didn't want to be here, were overpaid, on their way out, and wasting away on a bad team. What he got in return was draft picks. Most importantly, he got high picks for this year's draft which is far better than last years.

 

He's doing all he can do with this team and this situation. I'm not mad at Mangini, actually, I feel bad for him and am kind of happy he took this job. He got served shit soup and he has to turn it into Lobster Bisque in front 10 million people without panicking, that takes balls.

 

 

QB thing more complicated than we could know? I know one thing- a guy with a 30-something qb rating needs to be benched yesterday. I've seen every Browns qb since Milt Plum, and I'm having a hard time remembering one who's looked worse than Anderson the last 20 games he's played in. Mangini's letting his ego get in the way of common sense

 

Browns qb poll

 

I'll even give you a mulligan that maybe Mangini knows more than 99% of the fans that voted, but that doesn't take into account guys like Rutigliano, Dieken, and Marino who are saying the same thing.

 

"The bottom line for them right now is they don't have a real good football team. They're not playing even to the level that the talent is expressed and it's going to be a very, very difficult circumstance. The important thing in my view is very simply this: You cannot lose your football team. "

 

Uh, that's a quote from Marty Schottenheimer from another thread. I repeat They're not playing even to the level that the talent is expressed . Bad coaching, bad motivation.

 

So since we're at an expansion team level, no loss to tell Mangini to take a hike and bring in a proven winner next year.

[Chip Banks]

But you see, every coach is basically only interested in HIS talent. The guys he brought in. I mean, Bill Belichick dumps Bernie Kosar in favor of Todd Philcox not because Philcox gave the team a better chance to win, but because Bernie was not his guy. Though Philcox may not have been his guy either, BB knew that he could never put "his guy" into place until he got rid of "the other guys guy".

 

 

The next year BB's guys went 11-5.

 

Savage's guys sucked. Hell, I'd contend that outside of Thomas, Cribbs and maybe Jackson, the Jets transplants are some of our better players.

 

Better yet, who other than Edwards and Winslow did Mangini dump that is worth a shit? Maybe Sean Jones?

 

He kept guys like Pool and Wright and McDonald and Wimbley (who arguably, but seemingly only arguably) have potential. He kept Harrison and Vickers. He didn't jettison a bunch of talented players.

 

Winslow's getting huge money and hasn't made a difference on his team. They, like us have one win. Winslow doesn't block and is a huge risk to play for more than one or two seasons. Really, Savage poisoned him for this franchise last year anyways.

 

In 2008, Edwards was the 6th highest paid WR in the NFL, with a cap value near $8,000,000. He was like the 36th most productive.

 

Even if next year the CBA is not reworked, the Browns would have to tender Edwards 110% of his prior year's salary to be a "qualifying offer" as a restricted free agent. A transitional player gets the average of the salaries of the top 10 highest paid players at the position in the NFL, the franchise player gets top 5! So, which one of you guys wanted to overpay this huge piece of ball-dropping shit to stick around and show our young receivers how to be a pro? Add that the had he not moved to the NFL's favorite son franchise (NYJ), he surely would have served at least a couple days suspension for an offense where he was indicted and faces 6 months in prison.

 

Trusnik, who at worst is a ST stud and at best is the next London Fletcher (okay, maybe that's wishful thinking but at least the kid seems to have heart), Stuckey who most say is a credible NFL slot receiver (though we've yet to see it) and a third and a fifth for a one-year rental of Edwards? I think Tannenbaum and Ryan were taken in that deal. They have the same record that we do since that deal, BTW.

 

On the subject, who here is sold that Sanchez is the real deal? The national media that is piling on Mangini is using Sanchez as the example of Mangini's incompetence. Who thinks its a good idea to be paying Sanchez #5 overall pick money on this team?

 

There's the draft. But Mack looks to be turning into a pretty solid center (see Mangold in NY). Look at what Manningham did last year with the Giants before you so quickly judge Robiskie and MoMass. Some receivers taken in the second round or lower burst onto the scene their rookie year. I think that's an exception, though . . . and they usually play for a good team.

 

Maiva's playing about like you'd expect a 4th round LBer to play. Veikune worries me a little, but he's switching positions and we've only played 8 games. Robert Ayers, who is in a similar position change transition and was drafted #18 overall has only 8 tackles on the year and not a sack.

 

 

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

There's the draft. But Mack looks to be turning into a pretty solid center (see Mangold in NY). Look at what Manningham did last year with the Giants before you so quickly judge Robiskie and MoMass. Some receivers taken in the second round or lower burst onto the scene their rookie year. I think that's an exception, though . . . and they usually play for a good team.

 

the steelers took Limas Sweed in the second round 2 years ago and are 2 rookie WR's see more action then him. I agree its way to early to judge 2 rookie WR that got thrown in a bad situation.

 

[NW Ohio Brownie]

A lot of good thoughts on this thread.

 

Let me respond to a few.

 

First, our pitiful offensive display week after week after week is clouding our judgment about the entire team performance. Would we be this pissed at 1-7 if we were losing 30-27 every week? I highly doubt it. We just continue to get angrier and angrier because the offense gives us nothing to get excited about.

 

Second, Mangini was asked to come in and instill some accountability and discipline. He has done that. No doubt part of that implementation cost us Edwards and Winslow. So what? Those guys were not in our long-term future even before Mangini was hired.

 

Third, anybody who says Mangini is not playing the rookies is either high or has a short-term memory. Are you people serious with this argument? We are playing everybody. Every. Body. MoMass, Robo, Maiava, Veikune, Francies. They all saw time with the 1s last week. What rookies are you referring to that are waiting behind Elam or Bowens or Barton or Trusnik? Compared to Crennel this is a windfall of rookie playing time. Hell, that turd played Edwards in the slot for nearly his entire rookie year with Northcutt as the #2 receiver. Now was that dumb or was that dumb?

 

Fourth, our defense is only two players away from being a solid defensive unit. Rob Ryan is doing wonders with this mixed bag of a unit. If we can add a playmaking safety (Eric Berry) and either a pass rusher or banger at ILB, this D is set for next year. You'll be amazed at how much better those two pieces, when added, will make Wimbley, Wright, McDonald, and Jackson.

 

Fifth, our offense is showing signs of life in the running game. The problem is that it doesn't mean squat because you can't be one-dimensional at any level and our running game becomes irrelevant when we fall behind by two scores.

 

In short, if our offense and DA had any kind of a pulse, we would be talking about a competitive, disciplined football team instead of the mess we seem to be right now.

 

I really only have two issues right now with Mangini: 1) Daboll doesn't seem like a good hire 2) He's got to play Quinn right now

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. The only problem I have is with the lack of offensive production. I honestly feel that BQ was thrown under the bus, and we were trying to save money on his contract clause. That's great, I understand that it's a business, we just saved a bunch of money that can be spent in FA. But now that there is no way he can get his money, put him in and give him the full playbook. It was obvious he was only given pages 1-3, and they were terrible Xerox's that he could barely see, much less interpret. Now let's get him the full edition, and let's see what he can do. I feel like he is undeserving of being the new "Captain Checkdown", and that he can actually compete if given the full opportunity. As for the defense, Rob Ryan needs to stay. He turned our sorry scrubs into a force to be reckoned with. Okay, that's a huge stretch. He at least turned them into a force to be thought about. Imagine what he could do with a healthy Qwell and a half decent corner to replace B-Mac.

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

When you have 4 returning starters from last year on the offensive side you have to keep it simple early on. Now that were half way through the season, I agree they should all start getting on the same page and we should be able to open it up.....but who knows this is the Browns

[DawgTracker]

I think Mangini expected to be more competitive offensively but expected the losses. We may have won one or two more games with Winslow, BE wasn't doing anything here. But, if you are establishing a team attitude that winning comes first you cannot have two star malcontents on the team. If Heiden had been healthy we wouldn't have been missing Winslow nearly as much. Gaines might be the tight end that is good enough, we will see. But, we would be very fortunate if he turned out to be a long term starter.

[steel88]

QB thing more complicated than we could know? I know one thing- a guy with a 30-something qb rating needs to be benched yesterday. I've seen every Browns qb since Milt Plum, and I'm having a hard time remembering one who's looked worse than Anderson the last 20 games he's played in. Mangini's letting his ego get in the way of common sense

 

Browns qb poll

 

I'll even give you a mulligan that maybe Mangini knows more than 99% of the fans that voted, but that doesn't take into account guys like Rutigliano, Dieken, and Marino who are saying the same thing.

 

"The bottom line for them right now is they don't have a real good football team. They're not playing even to the level that the talent is expressed and it's going to be a very, very difficult circumstance. The important thing in my view is very simply this: You cannot lose your football team. "

 

Uh, that's a quote from Marty Schottenheimer from another thread. I repeat They're not playing even to the level that the talent is expressed . Bad coaching, bad motivation.

 

So since we're at an expansion team level, no loss to tell Mangini to take a hike and bring in a proven winner next year.

How does schottenheimer Know what the team is capable of? what I see is a team on the defensive side of the ball responding to the coaching now on the offensive side of the ball its a lack of talent in primary spots and bad, bad, bad, bad play calling which is why mangini is going to have carl smith call it for the rest of the season.

[GetridofDA]

thank god someone with sense......Whe are best players are punter and a kick-of return guy. what do you expect, players make plays not coaches

 

 

That is true. But the GM and Coach need to bring in players to make those plays! Cant make plays if you have no players capable of making a big play!

[BrownIndian]

It is simple, Mangini misses Callahan.

[hoorta]

How does schottenheimer Know what the team is capable of? what I see is a team on the defensive side of the ball responding to the coaching now on the offensive side of the ball its a lack of talent in primary spots and bad, bad, bad, bad play calling which is why mangini is going to have carl smith call it for the rest of the season.

 

Marty is in the top ten NFL in winning percentage of coaches. I think he knows what talent looks like. Arguably, the 2009 Browns have more talent at virtually every position than the 1999 Browns yet statistically, they're worse in almost any category you care to mention. That, my friend is serious underperformance.

 

Mangini shot himself squarely in the foot putting DA out there. You do realize that with 38 more passing attempts, Anderson will qualify as the lowest rated quarterback IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE NFL. That is SERIOUS suckage. In fact, if Mangini dares to trot DA out against the Ravens, he'd better feel fortunate they don't sell bottled beer anymore- I guarantee you it would be Bottlegate II.

 

Please don't insult my intelligence Mr Mangini, telling me you're seeing "progress" in that regard.

[peterbell]

I'll even give you a mulligan that maybe Mangini knows more than 99% of the fans that voted, but that doesn't take into account guys like Rutigliano, Dieken, and Marino who are saying the same thing.

"

 

 

Dan Marino ain't the sharpest tool in the shed chief..Sam R while a nice guy, played when they wore leather hemets..literally..a nice old man I'm sure..I don't know Dieken.

 

So lets say he throws Quinn back in and he continues to suck like he did for a game and a half, now the media will blame Mangini for flip flopping and being indecisive..There's no winning that shit storm.

 

Edwards and Winslow had to go,you all know that.

 

This team was bad and undiscipline with a s**tload of UFL players, with more then a few still on the team.

The defense is playing well and the offense is struggling..I get that, this team is playing hard and if anyone says their quitting that BS.

 

Building an NFL franchise the RIGHT way takes time and Mangini was there in NE and did it with the Jets, drafted all ALL pro players like Revis, Mangold, Washinton, Harris..Was able to convince Favre, Pace Faneca to come to NY..

 

When they let him go the NY press couldn't get ONE player to say anything bad about him..and they tried..Why would 10 agree to come to Cleveland? I tell you why because there character guys, hard workers who don't mind being held accountable at all times and they know Mangini is an excellent young coach..There not influenced by a bunch of journalist (english majors mind you) who never strapped on a set of freakin pads..I'm going by the guys who play for Mangini, not some moronic sports writer trying to sell newspapers and make a name for himself nationally by bashing our coach..TO HELL WITH THAT

[calfoxwc]

Although, I would rather see Quinn in there struggling and growing, rather than

 

DA being who he really is. Face it, DA has no upside, and he's boring.

 

Seeing if Quinn can grow would be a nice change from boredom.

 

But is that worth eleven million? The OC kept trotting DA out there, continually embarrassing

 

himself and the Browns, for some kind of reason.

[Earl34]

Building an NFL franchise the RIGHT way takes time and Mangini was there in NE and did it with the Jets, drafted all ALL pro players like Revis, Mangold, Washinton, Harris..Was able to convince Favre, Pace Faneca to come to NY..

 

When they let him go the NY press couldn't get ONE f**kin player to say anything bad about him..and they f**kin tried..Why would 10 agree to come to Cleveland?

 

Whoa...slow down the f-bombs chief. Good to see the passion. You're forgetting Kris Jenkins. Per Chris Mortensen:

 

Nose tackle Kris Jenkins was particularly bothered by the firing, praising the former coach for bringing him to New York and giving him an opportunity to rejuvenate his career. He also thought Mangini deserved another year with the team.

 

"I'm going to miss him," Jenkins said. "He didn't do what everybody thought he should do. He didn't go with the flow or just do things to make people happy. He took it upon himself to go against the grain and be a man about his situation."

 

Of the guys that did bitch about Mangini (if you can find them) show me one who was a decent player. They were the least penalized team in the league for the three years he was there and he had them act like disciplined pros. They're obviously doing so well now that they have a few more talented pieces (Scott, Sanchez, Leonhard) and their coach is a "player's coach". Great for the sound bites but can't manage a time out in crunch time.

 

[peterbell]

Okay..took out the f-bombs..weren't out of anger just tryin to make a point of emphasis. I am so sick of ESPN

[Earl34]

Okay..took out the f-bombs..weren't out of anger just tryin to make a point of emphasis. I am so sick of ESPN

 

Wasn't telling you to take them out! LOL. Just slow it down

[hoorta]

I'll even give you a mulligan that maybe Mangini knows more than 99% of the fans that voted, but that doesn't take into account guys like Rutigliano, Dieken, and Marino who are saying the same thing.

"

 

 

Dan Marino ain't the sharpest tool in the shed chief..Sam R while a nice guy, played when they wore leather hemets..literally..a nice old man I'm sure..I don't know Dieken.

 

Gee, leather helmets? try telling that to any Steelers fan that their Super Bowl wins in the 70's & 80's don't count- they'll punch your light out. Uh, that "nice old man", Rutigliano is probably the most brilliant offensive mind ever to coach the Browns. You remember the Kardiac Kids? Probably not- those were Rutigliano's teams. Don't know Dieken? You just shot your credibility right there. FYI, Doug played 14 years at left tackle for the Browns, and from 1984 to the present did color TV commentary, & does the radio analysis. So unlike you, Doug's seen every freaking Browns game from a player's perspective since 1971. BTW, he's reticent to call an active player out, pretty much has free access to the Browns locker room , so when he does torpedo someone, you'd damn well better listen.

 

So lets say he throws Quinn back in and he continues to suck like he did for a game and a half, now the media will blame Mangini for flip flopping and being indecisive..There's no winning that shit storm.

 

Bull**** maybe you missed my link to the Cleveland.com poll- 99% of the fans that voted want DA shipped to Siberia on the first plane out of town. The only thing that can hurt Mangini is continuing to trot DA out there week after week- in fact I hope he does- what does that say for his sanity when he CONTINUES TO START THE WORST QUARTERBACK IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL?

 

 

Edwards and Winslow had to go,you all know that.

 

yeah, so? tell me something I didn't know. Stone Hands and the soon to be Crip. NY and TB sure appreciate their talents.

 

 

 

This team was bad and undiscipline with a s**tload of UFL players, with more then a few still on the team.

The defense is playing well and the offense is struggling..I get that, this team is playing hard and if anyone says their quitting that BS.

 

Building an NFL franchise the RIGHT way takes time and Mangini was there in NE and did it with the Jets, drafted all ALL pro players like Revis, Mangold, Washinton, Harris..Was able to convince Favre, Pace Faneca to come to NY..

 

When they let him go the NY press couldn't get ONE player to say anything bad about him..and they tried..Why would 10 agree to come to Cleveland? I tell you why because there character guys, hard workers who don't mind being held accountable at all times and they know Mangini is an excellent young coach..There not influenced by a bunch of journalist (english majors mind you) who never strapped on a set of freakin pads..I'm going by the guys who play for Mangini, not some moronic sports writer trying to sell newspapers and make a name for himself nationally by bashing our coach..TO HELL WITH THAT

 

Building a franchise RIGHT doesn't mean throwing your hand-picked erstwhile best pal GM under the bus when things aren't going right. So much for front office stability.

 

With all due respects to our most honored permanently banned poster Ghoolie. Mangini is in a long line of assistant coaches that were latte fetchers for BB in New England that ultimately flopped as head coaches. Oh, maybe I'm wrong- but blowout losses to the Ravens & Steelers this year at CBS and Mangini is done in Cleveland. Take it to the bank.

[Earl34]

For the umpteenth time....WE DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF KOKINIS' FIRING! WE DON'T KNOW THAT HE THREW HIS PAL UNDER THE BUS!