Another angle on Kokinis

[Earl34]

Let me lay some things we've heard about George Kokinis' ouster out for you

 

1. George Kokinis and Eric Mangini are good friends

2. George Kokinis was said to be terminated "with cause" and that the Browns had spent several weeks looking at his phone records (per ESPN)

3. George Kokinis was not involved in the Braylon Edwards trade (multiple sources)

4. There were rumors of Kokinis being uncomfortable in the role in Cleveland

5. Lerner wanted Kokinis to be more visible even asking him recently to do an interview for SI (per ESPN). Multiple sources state that Kokinis was never visible since draft day. He spoke to no one in the press box in Chicago on Sunday.

6. Lerner now says he wants a "serious, credible" leader

7. When Lerner met with the fans he told them that he wouldn't discuss Kokinis' firing to "protect the privacy of his family".

 

Assuming that we can agree that these things are true, there is one thing that really bothers me. There is another possibility here beyond

 

a) Eric Mangini threw one of his best friends under the bus

Lerner wanted to axe Kokinis because of the on-the-field product being poor.

 

Here it is:

 

Eric Mangini's friend George Kokinis was being fired "with cause" and that cause is REAL and either very serious on a personal level or related to an inability to do this job. So that his good friend can both save face and potentially work again in the NFL...Eric Mangini is falling on his sword and taking the slings and arrows.

 

IS THIS POSSIBLE? I THINK IT IS.

 

Now, EM could simply be what ESPN is trying to sell you (a backstabber) but does it REALLY make sense that he'd sell out this guy who is not only a long-time friend but on the board of his charitable foundation?

 

Here's another thought. Maybe Kokinis really WASN'T doing his job and Mangini HAD to do his job and Kokinis' job? Maybe "with cause" means "with cause".

 

I have fired five people in my life. When you fire someone with or for cause, it's real. They've done something negative outside of the boundaries of what's expected. Maybe George Kokinis did something immoral. The Browns are serious about not paying Kokinis and that plus the phone record confiscation lead me to think that there is really something here that we don't know about. Why else would Lerner give a hoot about the family's "privacy"? No one would risk the legal action that would ensue firing for cause unless the dirt was real.

 

People are speculating that Mangini and Kokinis butted heads, but was it about personnel or was it about Kokinis not holding up his end of the work?

 

It doesn't bother anyone else that we are being force-fed the ESPN version of the facts when, quite frankly, no one knows any more than the above? There are a lot of media out there who (for good reason or not) hate your coach. He's 1-7 and he's an easy target. Why would you buy a story that fundamentally does not make real sense? Why do we assume that Kokinis was fired for the on-the-field product? I can't believe that this board is going to be a bunch of lemmings and follow everything that ESPN reports or some blogger happened to vomit onto the internet. BE SMART PEOPLE!

[Canton Mike]

Let me lay some things we've heard about George Kokinis' ouster out for you

 

1. George Kokinis and Eric Mangini are good friends

2. George Kokinis was said to be terminated "with cause" and that the Browns had spent several weeks looking at his phone records (per ESPN)

3. George Kokinis was not involved in the Braylon Edwards trade (multiple sources)

4. There were rumors of Kokinis being uncomfortable in the role in Cleveland

5. Lerner wanted Kokinis to be more visible even asking him recently to do an interview for SI (per ESPN). Multiple sources state that Kokinis was never visible since draft day. He spoke to no one in the press box in Chicago on Sunday.

6. Lerner now says he wants a "serious, credible" leader

7. When Lerner met with the fans he told them that he wouldn't discuss Kokinis' firing to "protect the privacy of his family".

 

Assuming that we can agree that these things are true, there is one thing that really bothers me. There is another possibility here beyond

 

a) Eric Mangini threw one of his best friends under the bus

Lerner wanted to axe Kokinis because of the on-the-field product being poor.

 

Here it is:

 

Eric Mangini's friend George Kokinis was being fired "with cause" and that cause is REAL and either very serious on a personal level or related to an inability to do this job. So that his good friend can both save face and potentially work again in the NFL...Eric Mangini is falling on his sword and taking the slings and arrows.

 

IS THIS POSSIBLE? I THINK IT IS.

 

Now, EM could simply be what ESPN is trying to sell you (a backstabber) but does it REALLY make sense that he'd sell out this guy who is not only a long-time friend but on the board of his charitable foundation?

 

Here's another thought. Maybe Kokinis really WASN'T doing his job and Mangini HAD to do his job and Kokinis' job? Maybe "with cause" means "with cause".

 

I have fired five people in my life. When you fire someone with or for cause, it's real. They've done something negative outside of the boundaries of what's expected. Maybe George Kokinis did something immoral. The Browns are serious about not paying Kokinis and that plus the phone record confiscation lead me to think that there is really something here that we don't know about. Why else would Lerner give a hoot about the family's "privacy"? No one would risk the legal action that would ensue firing for cause unless the dirt was real.

 

People are speculating that Mangini and Kokinis butted heads, but was it about personnel or was it about Kokinis not holding up his end of the work?

 

It doesn't bother anyone else that we are being force-fed the ESPN version of the facts when, quite frankly, no one knows any more than the above? There are a lot of media out there who (for good reason or not) hate your coach. He's 1-7 and he's an easy target. Why would you buy a story that fundamentally does not make real sense? Why do we assume that Kokinis was fired for the on-the-field product? I can't believe that this board is going to be a bunch of lemmings and follow everything that ESPN reports or some blogger happened to vomit onto the internet. BE SMART PEOPLE!

 

Good statement!

If we learned one thing prior to the last draft, wasn't it to take what the media reports with a grain of salt? At this point, let's see what happens....One thing I know is that I was before, am now, & will be a Browns fan. I have been since before Jimmy Brown was signed & will be until I kick the bucket.

Mike

 

[Earl34]

Good statement!

If we learned one thing prior to the last draft, wasn't it to take what the media reports with a grain of salt? At this point, let's see what happens....One thing I know is that I was before, am now, & will be a Browns fan. I have been since before Jimmy Brown was signed & will be until I kick the bucket.

Mike

 

Here's another example of ESPN force-feeding a story....James Davis.

 

They went ON and ON and ON about Mangini being to blame. Did they spend nearly as much time telling us that they were WRONG because Mangini was exonerated and it wasn't a guy in pads hitting Davis? No. They didn't; because that doesn't fit with the ESPN Agenda.

 

Do you ever wonder why Jason Whitlock is no longer on "Sports Reporters" (which used to be a good show BTW when Dick Schaap was alive)? It's because he wouldn't bad-mouth Barry Bonds because Mike Lupica wanted him to. The guy wanted to stick to the facts and Lupica wanted to push as much dirt onto Bonds. That's a REAL journalist.

 

[Alendor]

If you stop and thing about it, savage and romeo were paid off, and are getting their money, and the team wasn't doing much worse than it is now. For Kokinis to actually be fired, without getting the rest of his contract has to be something beyond just the team doing bad. And if he is actually getting fired, is for somethign serious, and not just taking the fall for a bad team.

[mastadave99999]

I think something bad categorizes as allowing a QB struggle to last until 2 days before the game.

 

Allowing a coach to continue to keep in a abysmal qb

 

Being the GM and having no knowledge of a Braylon Edwards trade...

 

Thats pretty bad in my book

 

 

[steel88]

I think something bad categorizes as allowing a QB struggle to last until 2 days before the game.

 

Allowing a coach to continue to keep in a abysmal qb

 

Being the GM and having no knowledge of a Braylon Edwards trade...

 

Thats pretty bad in my book

 

Not bad enough for a GM to be fired. Come on people put 2 and 2 together Erin O'Brien was fired and not to long after Kokinis was also, SOMETHING happened there.

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

Not bad enough for a GM to be fired. Come on people put 2 and 2 together Erin O'Brien was fired and not to long after Kokinis was also, SOMETHING happened there.

 

Maybe they were leaking information, that could be why there are checking phone records.

[JoeSixPat]

Maybe they were leaking information, that could be why there are checking phone records.

 

If your theory is correct, that means that Kokinis was let go for reasons other than the on-field performance of the team, and I'd think that would make most Brown Fans REALLY upset because THAT'S where everyone wants the change.

 

My guess is that it was a combination of things... I think Mangini actually promised Kokinis that he'd have final say on all moves as GM, seeing as he was taking a bit of a risk leaving Baltimore and taking the reins of one F'uped organization he felt he deserved to be give the true role of a GM.

 

I think Mangini told Kokinis what he wanted to hear and had no intention of letting him be the actual GM with authority over him. I think Mangini certain consulted Kokinis at times, but at other times perhaps Mangini did things like bring in every player that the Jets threw on the trash heap while cutting or cheaply trading every decent player on the roster.

 

I think Kokinis was getting madder and madder that 1.) all of Mangini's moves were making the team worse, not better and 2.) it was making him look bad as well even if he wanted to do something different (like say, trade Anderson and Quinn when their value was high and drafting Sanchez at #5 rather than showing indecision, passing on a good rookie and destroying the trade value and careers of both QBs...)

 

I think Kokinis may have begun planning for life after the Browns and was trying to line something up for himself at the end of the season.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Erin O'Brien were doing the same thing.

 

And thus, Lerner's hand is forced when confronting an upset, angry GM priving to at least some inside secrets to the organization who is actively trying to find a job with another organization - perhaps in the Browns own Division or Conference.

 

That's all the "with cause" they'd need to escort him out of the building.

 

Again, what is sad would be the fact that Lerner might actually support the guy that hand picked Kokinis in the first place and the actual guy who's been making all the bad front office moves.

 

So certainly Mangini is going to be hoping he's not second fiddle to the next GM, because he knowws a smart GM will see that Mangini's in way over his head and if said GM wants to improve the team, he's going to improve the Coaching position first.

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

Thats deffenently possible.

 

The only thing i dont get is what moves did Mangini make that was a bad decision?

The team was in financial dissaray so we couldnt go and sign expensive free agents. He traded winslow for 2nd and 5th(good trade) Edwards for 2-3 and 5th, Trusnick, Stuckey (good deal) released Kevin Shaffer and Sean Jones (free cap space)

Brings in stop gap and depth players and players that can teach his system and instill his values. Released half the roster from last year, of which 3-4 got picked up by another team, but there far from impact players. So what exactly has Mangini done wrong? Everybody he brang in is an upgrade over what we had. The only thing I didnt agree with is the QB shuffle. But I wasnt that upset with it either, Brady Quinn looked horrible, why not see if DA brings a spark. So he didnt, neither did Quinn so leave DA in for a couple games so you dont have to pay Quinn Tom Brady, Payton Manning money. Now that saves 11 mill we can use in free agency next year. Please help me understand the terrible moves Mangini has made cause I just dont see it.

[JoeSixPat]

Thats deffenently possible.

 

The only thing i dont get is what moves did Mangini make that was a bad decision? Please help me understand the terrible moves Mangini has made cause I just dont see it.

 

Aside from the fact that he personally vouched for and insisted that Kokinis be hired as the GM and

 

Aside from the fact that he bungled a QB situation badly enough to ensure that BOTH QBs who once had some trade value now have next to none and

 

Aside from the fact that the team is worse, not better, than last year and is proabably the worst Browns team since the return of the franchise to Clevleand and

 

Aside from the fact that a team that still has Shaun Rogers , Josh Cribbs, Joe Thomas, and Eric Steinbach should at least be competitive in the NFL and not embarrassing and

 

Aside from the fact that his hand picked OC and many guys that Mangini personally brought in from the Jets can't put together an offense that can score more TDs than some teams Defenses and

 

Aside from the fact that they got taken in the draft trading back out of the 1st round to gain just a 6th round pick and

 

Aside from the fact that the players just don't seem to be playing hard for Mangini, perhaps still upset at needless 10 hour bus rides to Hartford to play a mandatory volunteer charity game for a charity that just so happens to be run by their Head Coach and

 

Aside from the fact that such Bus trips and $1700 water bottle fines probably aren't winning Mangini too much respect and

 

Aside from the fact that the Browns need look no further than Denver, who were without as much talent, in transition at QB, and were with a brand new inexperienced head coach are 6-1 when most would have expected them to be with the Browns at 1-6

 

I'd say Mangini is really on a winning roll

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Aside from the fact that we're in a full rebuild mode, as stated from last offseason. A true rebuild, not the crappy ones we've been attempting for the last 10 years.

 

Aside from the fact that everything Mangini has done has been in line with a full rebuild of a team.

 

Aside from the fact that he has freed up a great deal of money that would have been otherwise unavailiable for the possible acquisition of veteran FA's next year.

 

Aside from the fact that he has brought in possibly the greatest defensive coordinator we've had.

 

Aside from the fact that the aforementioned defensive coordinator has turned our team of rookies and veteran scrubs into a somewhat viable defense, compared to years past.

 

Aside from the fact that, in the offseason, fans were advised to be patient and not to abandon ship, that this season would be a tough one.

 

Aside from the fact that our players need discipline, and the water bottle incident showed the players that he wasn't fooling around.

 

Aside from the fact that the players he brought in have played better than the people they replaced.

 

Aside from the fact that nearly all of the people Mangini released or traded are currently sitting on their couches on Sundays, showing the true level of talent they displayed.

 

Aside from the fact that K2 has yet to perform for Tampa, and Braylon... well, he's been pretty decent now that he found his thumbs.

 

And aside from the fact that three of Denver's wins are against Oakland, Us, and San Diego (with a 4-3 record, and second in the AFC West, who almost lost to the Raiders,) and another win was on a fluke play against Cincinatti. They are better than us, yes. But our schedule has been much more difficult than theirs.

 

 

All in all, I think Mangini is doing a good job. It's just that the typical Browns fan is so accustomed to saying "FIRE THE COACH!" that we have a hard time realizing when they are doing a decent job.

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

Aside from the fact that he personally vouched for and insisted that Kokinis be hired as the GM and

That means nothing, we have no clue why he was even let go. I havent been dissapointed in any moves the FO has made

 

Aside from the fact that he bungled a QB situation badly enough to ensure that BOTH QBs who once had some trade value now have next to none and You can only work with what you got. Is there another QB on the roster that can do better, if there was i'd try them to

 

Aside from the fact that the team is worse, not better, than last year and is proabably the worst Browns team since the return of the franchise to Clevleand of course it is were rebuilding, what did you expect

 

Aside from the fact that a team that still has Shaun Rogers , Josh Cribbs, Joe Thomas, and Eric Steinbach should at least be competitive in the NFL and not embarrassing and You named 3 lineman and a ST's player The team needs playmakers, Rookies will devlope, Free agents will be brought in next year and we have 11 draft picks thank to Mangini.

 

Aside from the fact that his hand picked OC and many guys that Mangini personally brought in from the Jets can't put together an offense that can score more TDs than some teams Defenses and 4 returning starters on offense from last year........, when you turn the ball over 5 times a game you should point fingers at players not coaches.

 

Aside from the fact that they got taken in the draft trading back out of the 1st round to gain just a 6th round pick and didnt trade outta the 1st round just to 21st or something around there and picked up like 5 picks and 4 players, take that all day

 

Aside from the fact that the players just don't seem to be playing hard for Mangini, perhaps still upset at needless 10 hour bus rides to Hartford to play a mandatory volunteer charity game for a charity that just so happens to be run by their Head Coach and I completely dissagree there, they've been been playing with more heart and passion then I've seen since they came back.

 

Aside from the fact that such Bus trips and $1700 water bottle fines probably aren't winning Mangini too much respect and

how many waterbottles have been takin since? Gotta set an example 1700 dollars is pocket change. Do you think if the fine was 3 dollars anyone would have learned a lesson?

 

Aside from the fact that the Browns need look no further than Denver, who were without as much talent, in transition at QB, and were with a brand new inexperienced head coach are 6-1 when most would have expected them to be with the Browns at 1-6 Denver had more Draft picks More money to spend in FA and better overall talent. I didnt expect them to be as good as there are but they'll fall off now that the leagues got a read on Mcdaniels

 

I'd say Mangini is really on a winning roll

[Earl34]

Aside from the fact that he personally vouched for and insisted that Kokinis be hired as the GM and

 

Aside from the fact that he bungled a QB situation badly enough to ensure that BOTH QBs who once had some trade value now have next to none and

 

Aside from the fact that the team is worse, not better, than last year and is proabably the worst Browns team since the return of the franchise to Clevleand and

 

Aside from the fact that a team that still has Shaun Rogers , Josh Cribbs, Joe Thomas, and Eric Steinbach should at least be competitive in the NFL and not embarrassing and

 

Aside from the fact that his hand picked OC and many guys that Mangini personally brought in from the Jets can't put together an offense that can score more TDs than some teams Defenses and

 

Aside from the fact that they got taken in the draft trading back out of the 1st round to gain just a 6th round pick and

 

Aside from the fact that the players just don't seem to be playing hard for Mangini, perhaps still upset at needless 10 hour bus rides to Hartford to play a mandatory volunteer charity game for a charity that just so happens to be run by their Head Coach and

 

Aside from the fact that such Bus trips and $1700 water bottle fines probably aren't winning Mangini too much respect and

 

Aside from the fact that the Browns need look no further than Denver, who were without as much talent, in transition at QB, and were with a brand new inexperienced head coach are 6-1 when most would have expected them to be with the Browns at 1-6

 

I'd say Mangini is really on a winning roll

 

First off, as a Pats fan, you are anti-Mangini by definition...so your opinion is biased. Second, the Denver Broncos have more than one impact wide receiver, a legitimate tailback and (at the time) a top tier QB and a shut down corner so you're wrong about the talent. McDaniels was not able to smooth things over with Cutler whereas Mangini WAS able to smooth things over with his franchise player, Shaun Rogers.

 

It wasn't a volunteer charity game. It was a youth camp and Mangini rode the bus back with them.

 

They traded down in the first round of the draft and picked up two second rounders. Don't go there. Mangini's record of drafting players in NY was excellent (and it was he and not Tannenbaum, the accountant). Rex Ryan kept 90% of Mangini's players. Of the players Mangini has cut, only a handful of the 24 are still in the league and they're on practice squads. Instead of following Mangini to the Jets and Browns boards, go enjoy your team....at least there your biases work for you.

 

[Pumpkin Eater]

Denver also went 8-8 last year. Browns? 4-12

[kshutchins]

Let me lay some things we've heard about George Kokinis' ouster out for you

 

1. George Kokinis and Eric Mangini are good friends

2. George Kokinis was said to be terminated "with cause" and that the Browns had spent several weeks looking at his phone records (per ESPN)

3. George Kokinis was not involved in the Braylon Edwards trade (multiple sources)

4. There were rumors of Kokinis being uncomfortable in the role in Cleveland

5. Lerner wanted Kokinis to be more visible even asking him recently to do an interview for SI (per ESPN). Multiple sources state that Kokinis was never visible since draft day. He spoke to no one in the press box in Chicago on Sunday.

6. Lerner now says he wants a "serious, credible" leader

7. When Lerner met with the fans he told them that he wouldn't discuss Kokinis' firing to "protect the privacy of his family".

 

Assuming that we can agree that these things are true, there is one thing that really bothers me. There is another possibility here beyond

 

a) Eric Mangini threw one of his best friends under the bus

Lerner wanted to axe Kokinis because of the on-the-field product being poor.

 

Here it is:

 

Eric Mangini's friend George Kokinis was being fired "with cause" and that cause is REAL and either very serious on a personal level or related to an inability to do this job. So that his good friend can both save face and potentially work again in the NFL...Eric Mangini is falling on his sword and taking the slings and arrows.

 

IS THIS POSSIBLE? I THINK IT IS.

 

Now, EM could simply be what ESPN is trying to sell you (a backstabber) but does it REALLY make sense that he'd sell out this guy who is not only a long-time friend but on the board of his charitable foundation?

 

Here's another thought. Maybe Kokinis really WASN'T doing his job and Mangini HAD to do his job and Kokinis' job? Maybe "with cause" means "with cause".

 

I have fired five people in my life. When you fire someone with or for cause, it's real. They've done something negative outside of the boundaries of what's expected. Maybe George Kokinis did something immoral. The Browns are serious about not paying Kokinis and that plus the phone record confiscation lead me to think that there is really something here that we don't know about. Why else would Lerner give a hoot about the family's "privacy"? No one would risk the legal action that would ensue firing for cause unless the dirt was real.

 

People are speculating that Mangini and Kokinis butted heads, but was it about personnel or was it about Kokinis not holding up his end of the work?

 

It doesn't bother anyone else that we are being force-fed the ESPN version of the facts when, quite frankly, no one knows any more than the above? There are a lot of media out there who (for good reason or not) hate your coach. He's 1-7 and he's an easy target. Why would you buy a story that fundamentally does not make real sense? Why do we assume that Kokinis was fired for the on-the-field product? I can't believe that this board is going to be a bunch of lemmings and follow everything that ESPN reports or some blogger happened to vomit onto the internet. BE SMART PEOPLE!

 

After taking some time to digest this situation and hearing bits of information here and there from Bernie and a few players, I have come to agree with you on this. At first I thought Kokinis was just a scapegoat. Now I'm thinking that your explanation makes more sense. It's also possible that Mangini tried to remedy the situation on his own to protect his friend, causing a fatal distraction. Ultimately, whatever was going on interfered with preparation for the draft and Mangini's work with the team. I can even see how Mangini's credibility could be undermined in the organization if he's talking "character" in the lockerroom while covering for a friend who is behaving in a way that clearly demonstrates poor character. I can also see how dealing with "friend/GM not doing their job" issues could be stressful enough to interfere with clear thinking. Hence the "I haven't yet decided which QB will start" nonsense.

 

The business about Kokinis finding excuses to stay in the office and not do any scouting really has nagged at me. That he wasn't involved in the Edwards deal was also troublesome. It's possible he and Mangini just didn't agree on matters relating to the team. It's also entirely possible that Kokinis felt totally lost and in over his head without the support of the organization he had left. Or both.

 

This sort of drama is a distraction to everyone and can leave the players lost (Jamal Lewis' comments would support this). If the coach is too busy trying to straighten out friend/future of the franchise issues to communicate with his players, then there's a serious problem that shows on the field.

 

I can also see how it might have taken Lerner a while to become aware of the issues. Maybe he knew and tried to do the personal kindness of letting Mangini try to handle his friend without taking steps that would become public, while doing the research necessary to have grounds to act decisively when the time was right.

 

The Cleveland media, in my opinion, aren't very good at ferreting out the truth in situations like this. If it's not on a silver platter, they're lost. So I take what they say with a grain of salt. Lerner's an easy target but he may actually be getting this right.

 

I hope this bye week provides an opportunity for Mangini to clear the air in a number of ways. And I've come to believe that a strong new voice to help guide the organization through the upcoming draft is essential.

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

Ravens won't be making any claims against the Browns

 

Posted by Mike Florio on November 8, 2009 11:02 AM ET

 

Lost in the recent termination of Browns G.M. George Kokinis is the apparent reality that Cleveland finagled the hiring of Kokinis by officially giving him final say over the roster -- but by unofficially not letting him use it.

 

It's the same thing that happened a couple of years ago in Miami, when the Dolphins gave final say to G.M. Jeff Ireland in order to be able to get him from the Cowboys, even though anyone with a pulse and an ounce of common sense knows that Bill Parcells has veto power there.

 

Per a league source, the Ravens will not be making any claims regarding the Browns' arguable misrepresentation of Kokinis' authority in order to hire him away from Baltimore under circumstances that otherwise would have allowed the Ravens to keep Kokinis from leaving. The reason? Despite the high degree of animosity between the two cities in which the teams play, the owners -- Randy Lerner and Steve Bisciotti -- have a very good relationship.

 

Under the rules, a front-office employee still under contract may be hired by another team without the consent of his current employer only if final say over the roster is included in the new duties. By all appearances, the Ravens were not going to let Kokinis leave unless he received final say.

 

So Kokinis did, but he really didn't. Instead, it appears that coach Eric Mangini wanted -- and got -- a worker bee, and that the Browns put whatever they had to put in the contract in order to get said worker bee.

 

Then, apparently, when the worker bee was merely being a worker bee and when the queen bee needed a scapegoat, the queen bee complained that the worker bee was merely being a worker bee.

 

Though the Ravens won't be making a stink about this one, it could get very ugly between the Browns and Kokinis. We'll have more on this later in the day.

 

[professor_g]

Adam Schefter (sp?) was just reporting something to the effect that Kokinis was required to undergo counceling. Perhaps he wasn't well.

[EdwardG]

Rutigliano, Dieken, Grossi, and Donovan all agreed on their show a few days ago that Kokonis just wasn't qualified and/or ready for the GM job. My guess is that he's both a victim and at fault. He came in and was quickly marginalized by Mangini. He realized that the contract giving him final authority and reality were two different things. Some personalities withdraw when confronted by conflict, particularly if they think it isn't a hill worth dying on. Kokonis realized he didn't have the allies, didn't feel up to the battle (or felt that he couldn't win or come to an understanding), and so he just mentally checked out and awaited his doom. Those of us who've been in very bad work atmospheres can relate. It may be that he wasn't ready for a GM job, particularly in an environment that was the opposite of calm and developmental, and so he quickly sank and drowned in the cesspool that is the current Browns org.

 

Mangini just seems very hard to work with. While it's easy to call on people to man up and work for the boss, imo alienating those who work with and under you is nothing but bad leadership. EM needs a pink slip.

[Guest berniesipe]

"I have fired five people in my life. When you fire someone with or for cause, it's real. They've done something negative outside of the boundaries of what's expected"

 

You being a assistant manager at Rally's firing some pimply face 16 year old kids for missing work is a little different in this situation.

[kshutchins]

Rutigliano, Dieken, Grossi, and Donovan all agreed on their show a few days ago that Kokonis just wasn't qualified and/or ready for the GM job. My guess is that he's both a victim and at fault. He came in and was quickly marginalized by Mangini. He realized that the contract giving him final authority and reality were two different things. Some personalities withdraw when confronted by conflict, particularly if they think it isn't a hill worth dying on. Kokonis realized he didn't have the allies, didn't feel up to the battle (or felt that he couldn't win or come to an understanding), and so he just mentally checked out and awaited his doom. Those of us who've been in very bad work atmospheres can relate. It may be that he wasn't ready for a GM job, particularly in an environment that was the opposite of calm and developmental, and so he quickly sank and drowned in the cesspool that is the current Browns org.

 

If I had to, I'd guess this is closer to the truth than anything else.

[Earl34]

"I have fired five people in my life. When you fire someone with or for cause, it's real. They've done something negative outside of the boundaries of what's expected"

 

You being a assistant manager at Rally's firing some pimply face 16 year old kids for missing work is a little different in this situation.

 

Try again....if you want to see my professional credentials....we can have that pissing match too.

 

[Earl34]

Adam Schefter (sp?) was just reporting something to the effect that Kokinis was required to undergo counceling. Perhaps he wasn't well.

 

DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

[JoeSixPat]

I'm sure the fact that Lerner's hired a former Secret Service agent to dig into phone records to weasel out of their contract and the notion that the Browns organization is now attempting to discredit the sanity of the former GM is going to do WONDERS in their efforts to attract the best available GMs to come to this wonderfully run organization.

 

Any top tier GM candidate that sees that degree of a smear campaign on the last GM is sure to say "Yeah! That's the place where I want to go!!!!"

 

Smart guy that Lerner.

 

Letting Mangini tell everyone that he'll be helping to make the call on the next GM has to be a big plus as well.

 

Good to see Lerner's getting a grip on things.

[kshutchins]

I'm sure the fact that Lerner's hired a former Secret Service agent to dig into phone records to weasel out of their contract and the notion that the Browns organization is now attempting to discredit the sanity of the former GM is going to do WONDERS in their efforts to attract the best available GMs to come to this wonderfully run organization.

 

Discredit his sanity? Encouraging the guy to attend counseling does no such thing. A counselor is nothing more than a life coach that helps you sort through issues. They are experienced at helping people maintain or regain functionality in their daily lives when they become overwhelmed by events or situations. They facilitate communication that can be beneficial to all parties involved. I know many perfectly sane people who have successfully worked with counselors for lots of different reasons. I also know many people who would benefit greatly from counseling but who THINK it reflects on their sanity so they don't go. If more people thought of counselors as coaches, many of us would be happier.

 

[Kosar_For_President]

Adam Schefter (sp?) was just reporting something to the effect that Kokinis was required to undergo counceling. Perhaps he wasn't well.

 

In other news, Schefter reported the Browns ordered Kokinis to undergo counseling because Kokinis had become so withdrawn. The report said Kokinis and Mangini rarely if ever talked, which is ironic since Kokinis was hired on Mangini's recommendation after 13 years with the Ravens following five with the Browns.

 

Reporters who covered training camp daily found it strange Kokinis was rarely on the practice field observing, and when he was on the field he was hardly ever with Mangini. Instead he would watch practice from a golf cart in the fieldhouse — not exactly a box seat. Asked how he could learn anything from practice from that vantage point, Kokinis said he would watch the tapes of practice to assess the players.

[EdwardG]

Hearing that Kokonis wasn't involved in the BE deal, it makes me wonder if EM really got what he could for Edwards. If EM is as overwhelmed as it sounds, and not trusting or relying on any front office help, did he just take a call from his comfort zone (his old team) and get what he could for BE because he decided that he had enough of him, or was he soliciting offers from the rest of the league?

 

The Tribe got what looks like a bad return for Lee, but at least you know there that the GM and his underlings were talking to other teams like the Dodgers beforehand, so they got what they thought was the best deal.

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

Browns' case against Kokinis seems to be weak

Posted by Mike Florio on November 10, 2009 11:18 AM ET

 

Last week, we complained that the decision of the Browns to drop only vague hints regarding the reasons for the departure of G.M. George Kokinis seems grossly unfair to Kokinis.

 

Comments from owner Randy Lerner suggesting that the developments were "unforeseen" coupled with other circumstances prompted speculation that Kokinis must have done something very wrong, bad, or both to be fired "with cause."

 

Over the past several days, more details have emerged. Apparently, the team's argument in support of firing Kokinis and not paying him is that Kokinis wasn't working.

 

Recent reports have suggested that Kokinis was "in over his head," that became "disconnected" from coach Eric Mangini, that the two men had little if any contact, and that Kokinis became so withdrawn that the team "ordered him into counseling."

 

Did it ever occur to the team that the problem wasn't Kokinis, but Mangini? Lured from Baltimore with a written contract giving Kokinis full authority over the roster, Kokinis made the mistake of believing that the content of the document reflected the true state of affairs. By all appearances, Mangini steamrolled Kokinis. So should it be a surprise if, eventually, Kokinis' demeanor reflected the domination that Mangini was displaying?

 

Moreover, we've heard from several sources that Kokinis wasn't simply going through the motions.

 

"He'd call me from his office at midnight," one source said. "George is a worker. All he does is watch film. You can say anything you want about George, but you can't say he didn't work hard."

 

On one hand, we understand that owner Randy Lerner doesn't want to be responsible for an ever-growing list of buyouts. But this is the wrong way to do business, and it will as a practical matter makes folks with options less likely to trust the team when offered employment.

 

Moreover, while the Browns benefit from the fact that any legal fight regarding Kokinis' ongoing compensation will be decided by the league office, the Browns need to be careful about what they say and do beyond the confines of the employment relationship. If they keep sending out smoke signals that Kokinis did something far worse than what he really did, Kokinis might be able to seek some relief in a court of law, too.

 

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

Thats 2 Mangini bashing acticles by FLorio and its not even noon yet. Any wagers on how many he writes today? Its atleast 5 or 6 a day. Come on Florio write a real, informative, non cleveland bashing article. I dare you, bet you cant do. Prove me wrong