AFC North worst division in AFC?

[professor_g]

We may very well have the worst division in the AFC right now, just one year after having, arguably, the strongest division. Perhaps the East is a close contender. The worst team in the East, the Bills, has a stronger record than ours (though we did beat them by a score of 6-3, iirc), and the Pats are probably better than the Bengals. The rest is a wash.

 

Indeed, we would likely have the worst division in football, if it weren't for the lowly NFC West. How quickly things change.

[Spunkonmyback DPOY]

We may very well have the worst division in the AFC right now, just one year after having, arguably, the strongest division. Perhaps the East is a close contender. The worst team in the East, the Bills, has a stronger record than ours (though we did beat them by a score of 6-3, iirc), and the Pats are probably better than the Bengals. The rest is a wash.

 

Indeed, we would likely have the worst division in football, if it weren't for the lowly NFC West. How quickly things change.

 

The AFC North doesn't have two power houses like last year, but overall were not as bad as it seems. The AFC East is much worse. The North will likely have the #2 seed in the AFC and two teams can still take the wild card spot. East only has one team in WC contention and the Pats probably won't get the #2 seed. The Browns are the only North team without a legit shot to beat any East team but they did beat the Bills.

[professor_g]

The AFC North doesn't have two power houses like last year, but overall were not as bad as it seems. The AFC East is much worse. The North will likely have the #2 seed in the AFC and two teams can still take the wild card spot. East only has one team in WC contention and the Pats probably won't get the #2 seed. The Browns are the only North team without a legit shot to beat any East team but they did beat the Bills.

 

The East is much worse? I really can't agree with that. The Dolphins are legit, while the Steelers and Ratbirds have been looking pretty mediocre lately. The Bills have much more talent than the Browns. And, again, the Pats are surely better than the Bengals.

[LCDawgFan13]

The East is much worse? I don't see any argument here. The Dolphins are legit, while the Steelers and Ratbirds have been looking pretty mediocre lately. The Bills have much more talent than the Browns. And, again, the Pats are surely better than the Bengals.

 

I can't really agree with you on this matter. You are arguing that the Bills have more talent than the Browns. That's fine, but it doesn't make them the better team. No, I'm not saying that the Browns are better, but they did beat them head-to-head. Neither team looked remotely NFL caliber that day, but there still had to be a winner and that was the Browns. As far as the Dolphins are concerned, they are 6-6. Just like the Ratbirds and Squealers. And even the Jets for that matter. I don't see how you can say that one of these teams is legit but the others are not. Yes, the Dolphins just beat the Patriots. But look at the rest of their schedule. They beat, in addition to the Pats, the Bucs, Jets twice, Bills, and the Panthers. Not exactly your who's who among NFL powerhouses. Then they lost to the Falcons, Colts, Chargers, Saints, Pats, and Bills. Legit teams win difficult games. They have only beaten 1 team worthy of really noting. How are they legit but the Steelers, who have beaten the Chargers, Vikings, and Broncos, or the Ravens who have beaten the Chargers and Broncos as well, are not legit? Please explain.

Finally, your point about the Bengals not being better that the Patriots is a little off kilter as well. First, by record alone, the Bengals are better. Then you look at schedules and who they've beaten. The best team the Pats have beaten was the Falcons. The Bengals biggest win was over the Packers. Both teams lost to Denver and both teams have wins over the Ravens. Head-to-head opposition, they look about even. Neither team has beaten the leagues elite. The Pats have losses to the Saints and Colts. Cincy hasn't played them. With neither team jumping out at you on paper, you have to look at their records, and Cincy is 2 games ahead of them in the standings. They are better at this moment. And, though it doesn't actually count for anything, the Bengals did beat the Pats in preseason. Only by a point, but they did win.

I won't say that either division is better than the other, but I felt the need to point out the flaws by which you came to your conclusion.

 

By the way, I am from Oberlin. Graduated from OHS in '96.

[professor_g]

Cool, I moved here in 2000. Great town.

 

Well, I am trying to be provocative. And mainly what interests me is the thought that the Steelers and Ravens might actually be mediocre, and the Dolphins good. On the other hand, I'd actually like to think that the Bengals are better than the Pats, but with their records so similar I have to look beyond just this season, and then there's really no comparison.

 

I would say that the main edge the Browns have over the Bills is in the coaching staff. Talent-wise I just can't see how we compare favorably. Once some of our young players on offense develop, things will hopefully look very different.

[The Gipper]

As someone wise once said: You are what your record is. (I believe it was Bill Parcells). With that in mind, here are the best to worst in divisions in the NFL:

 

1. AFC South 29-19

2. NFC East 26-22

3. NFC North 25-23

4. AFC West 24-24

4. NFC South 24-24

6. AFC East 23-25

7. AFC North 22-26

8. NFC West 19-29

[The Gipper]

I can't really agree with you on this matter. You are arguing that the Bills have more talent than the Browns. That's fine, but it doesn't make them the better team. No, I'm not saying that the Browns are better, but they did beat them head-to-head. Neither team looked remotely NFL caliber that day, but there still had to be a winner and that was the Browns. As far as the Dolphins are concerned, they are 6-6. Just like the Ratbirds and Squealers. And even the Jets for that matter. I don't see how you can say that one of these teams is legit but the others are not. Yes, the Dolphins just beat the Patriots. But look at the rest of their schedule. They beat, in addition to the Pats, the Bucs, Jets twice, Bills, and the Panthers. Not exactly your who's who among NFL powerhouses. Then they lost to the Falcons, Colts, Chargers, Saints, Pats, and Bills. Legit teams win difficult games. They have only beaten 1 team worthy of really noting. How are they legit but the Steelers, who have beaten the Chargers, Vikings, and Broncos, or the Ravens who have beaten the Chargers and Broncos as well, are not legit? Please explain.

Finally, your point about the Bengals not being better that the Patriots is a little off kilter as well. First, by record alone, the Bengals are better. Then you look at schedules and who they've beaten. The best team the Pats have beaten was the Falcons. The Bengals biggest win was over the Packers. Both teams lost to Denver and both teams have wins over the Ravens. Head-to-head opposition, they look about even. Neither team has beaten the leagues elite. The Pats have losses to the Saints and Colts. Cincy hasn't played them. With neither team jumping out at you on paper, you have to look at their records, and Cincy is 2 games ahead of them in the standings. They are better at this moment. And, though it doesn't actually count for anything, the Bengals did beat the Pats in preseason. Only by a point, but they did win.

I won't say that either division is better than the other, but I felt the need to point out the flaws by which you came to your conclusion.

 

By the way, I am from Oberlin. Graduated from OHS in '96.

 

 

Now, what would be impressive is if you graduated from Oberlin College, which along with Kenyon are the two best schools in the state, and among the top 30-50 in the country.

(FYI, my son goes to Kenyon, and it came down to a close call for him to go there or to Oberlin)

[dj_illness]

this is a crap shoot. it's REALLY tough to compare divisions as a whole....some have good teams, some have bad, with a lot of mediocre (?) teams in between.

 

not to mention the fact that "any given sunday" a mid-tier team could beat another.....

 

it's tough to call.

[Spunkonmyback DPOY]

Look at the head-to-head games between these two divisions this years.

 

Browns 6 Bills 3

Ravens 21 Patriots 27

 

According to the two games so far the North's worst team is better than the East's worst. The second worst team in the North lost to the East's best team by less than a td, and the game went down to the final two minutes.

 

Week 17:

 

Steelers @ Dolphins

Bengals @ Jets

 

The Steeler game is a toss up and the Bengals will win. (Although, they will probably rest their starters if they have locked up the #2 seed)

 

 

From the outcome of the games already played, I give a slight edge to the North.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

We may very well have the worst division in the AFC right now, just one year after having, arguably, the strongest division. Perhaps the East is a close contender. The worst team in the East, the Bills, has a stronger record than ours (though we did beat them by a score of 6-3, iirc), and the Pats are probably better than the Bengals. The rest is a wash.

 

Indeed, we would likely have the worst division in football, if it weren't for the lowly NFC West. How quickly things change.

Funny the Talking heads were saying the Opposite 4 weeks ago... Then Pittsburgh and Baltimore Fell down and couldn't get up...

[CLEVELandMILIDH]

AFC North teams are built to run the ball and stop the run. Why do teams in the North build a team that way? Because when the weather gets cold and you cant throw and catch bricks you have to be able to run itand stop it on D. The cold weather came a little late this year, and that could cost Pitt or Balt. that wildcard spot. But im not writting anybody out yet, if one of them manage to get the wildcard Id look for one of them to be able to do some damage through the playoffs atleast untill they get to the dome in Indy.

 

The (wildcard) Steelers beat the Bengals, Colts, and Broncos all on the Road in 06 to reach the superbowl. Isnt it ironic that, thats probably what they will have to do this year if they got the wildcard

[ClevelandRocks]

Anybody that thinks the AFC west is better than the North is smoking something. The chargers and everyone playing for them are horrendously overrated, Denver is playin gout of their minds this year but still lost to the bungles and pittsburgh, and KC and Oakland are consistantly 2 of the worst teams in the league.

[Thomas5737]

Denver is playin gout of their minds this year but still lost to the bungles and pittsburgh

I think you missed the last minute of the Broncos Bengals game

[Ebenezer]

There is NO WAY IN HELL this division is better than the AFC East. NO WAY.

 

Pats > our entire division

 

Dolphins > our entire division (don't let the record fool you, they had what was widely regarded as the HARDEST SCHEDULE IN NFL HISTORY coming into this season and they're 6-6)

 

Jets > us but = Baltimore

 

Bills > us (Our 6-3 win was a fluke and an embarrassment for both teams and you all know it)

 

Only the NFC West and mayyyyybe you could make a case for the NFC North (Saints are amazing, but there's 3 really bad teams there too) are worse than us. And No one single team in the NFL is worse than the Browns. We are the bottom of the barrel. Don't confuse us not having the worst division with not being the worst team in the league.

[Spunkonmyback DPOY]

This thread is old, but it has become relavant again.

 

The Bengals are fighting for the #2 seed in the AFC.

The Ravens are in the playoffs, and one more win nearly locks them the 5th seed.

The Steelers also probably have the best playoff chance out of all the 7-7 teams. The Steelers are in if they win out and:

 

Jets lose vs. Bengals or Colts

Broncs lose vs Philly or Kansas City

Jaguars lose to Pats or Cleveland

 

The Steelers could easily control their own destiny entering week 17.

 

If the Ravens lose out they will likely be out of the playoffs, but then that opens the door for the 5th seed for the Steelers.

 

If the Steelers beat KC, OAK and CLE than the Steelers would lead the division and the 9-5 Bengals and the Ravens would both currently be wildcard teams. If the Steelers won any one of those 3 games we atleast control our own destiny.

 

From worst team in the AFC, to fielding three playoff teams?

[Bob806]

This thread is old, but it has become relavant again.

 

The Bengals are fighting for the #2 seed in the AFC.

The Ravens are in the playoffs, and one more win nearly locks them the 5th seed.

The Steelers also probably have the best playoff chance out of all the 7-7 teams. The Steelers are in if they win out and:

 

Jets lose vs. Bengals or Colts

Broncs lose vs Philly or Kansas City

Jaguars lose to Pats or Cleveland

 

The Steelers could easily control their own destiny entering week 17.

 

If the Ravens lose out they will likely be out of the playoffs, but then that opens the door for the 5th seed for the Steelers.

 

If the Steelers beat KC, OAK and CLE than the Steelers would lead the division and the 9-5 Bengals and the Ravens would both currently be wildcard teams. If the Steelers won any one of those 3 games we atleast control our own destiny.

 

From worst team in the AFC, to fielding three playoff teams?

 

Wow...I can't believe I overlooked this thread.

 

My take is simply that there is so much parity, especially in the AFC, that it's hard to pin down a "worst division."

 

You have Indy & San Diego, then quite a dropoff to Cincy & New England. I think there's no argument- Cincy qualifies as the best of our division (6-0 in division games). They nearly beat the Chargers out there yesterday...if Carson Palmer gets it together, they could make noise in the playoffs. The Steelers are still alive, but they won't go anywhere because of their O-line. The Ravens feast on lousy teams, still have hope, but aren't going anywhere either (if Haushka makes that FG vs. Minnesota, their season might have been different).

 

In the AFC East, Miami & the Jets are similar. They are good enough to scare a team in the Wild Card round (Cincy or NE), but Indy or SD will destroy them. Actually, I predicted the Jets would be 7-9 after they got Braylon, so at least one of my predictions can come true this year

 

Denver is doomed- I think we may witness history as they were 6-0, and probably won't even make the playoffs.

 

AFC South- Tennessee is a team no one would want to play, but they aren't a legit contender. Jacksonville will lose to the Browns on January 3rd. Houston is schizophrenic, like the Jets.

 

In the NFC, I think Minnesota is fading...it's going to come down to either Arizona or Philly @ New Orleans in the NFC Championship. Dallas is a long shot, but can could get hot. Green Bay is a pretender. The rest of the NFC (yes, even the NY Giants) blows.

 

The gap between the very good teams, and the good/average teams, has never been greater since the league went to 32 teams. Also, the amount of totally crappy/lousy teams has never been greater.

 

Go Browns, perhaps the best of the totally crappy/lousy teams

[Spunkonmyback DPOY]

Wow...I can't believe I overlooked this thread.

 

My take is simply that there is so much parity, especially in the AFC, that it's hard to pin down a "worst division."

 

You have Indy & San Diego, then quite a dropoff to Cincy & New England. I think there's no argument- Cincy qualifies as the best of our division (6-0 in division games). They nearly beat the Chargers out there yesterday...if Carson Palmer gets it together, they could make noise in the playoffs. The Steelers are still alive, but they won't go anywhere because of their O-line. The Ravens feast on lousy teams, still have hope, but aren't going anywhere either (if Haushka makes that FG vs. Minnesota, their season might have been different).

 

In the AFC East, Miami & the Jets are similar. They are good enough to scare a team in the Wild Card round (Cincy or NE), but Indy or SD will destroy them. Actually, I predicted the Jets would be 7-9 after they got Braylon, so at least one of my predictions can come true this year

 

Denver is doomed- I think we may witness history as they were 6-0, and probably won't even make the playoffs.

 

AFC South- Tennessee is a team no one would want to play, but they aren't a legit contender. Jacksonville will lose to the Browns on January 3rd. Houston is schizophrenic, like the Jets.

 

In the NFC, I think Minnesota is fading...it's going to come down to either Arizona or Philly @ New Orleans in the NFC Championship. Dallas is a long shot, but can could get hot. Green Bay is a pretender. The rest of the NFC (yes, even the NY Giants) blows.

 

The gap between the very good teams, and the good/average teams, has never been greater since the league went to 32 teams. Also, the amount of totally crappy/lousy teams has never been greater.

 

Go Browns, perhaps the best of the totally crappy/lousy teams

Agreed, for the most part. But the Steelers O-line has actually played quite well. Even a few time when a starter got injured they played well as a whole. The problem is Bruce Arians belives passing 90% of the time. and never PA, mostly shotgun and 5 wides. When something works once or twice you rarely see Arians call it again that same game. Hail Maries on 3rd and 1 in 40+ mph winds never worked so he kept trying it. The one time we run on 3rd and 1 we gain five yards. Are you sure this guy still isn't on your pay roll?

[Ebenezer]

Agreed, for the most part. But the Steelers O-line has actually played quite well. Even a few time when a starter got injured they played well as a whole. The problem is Bruce Arians belives passing 90% of the time. and never PA, mostly shotgun and 5 wides. When something works once or twice you rarely see Arians call it again that same game. Hail Maries on 3rd and 1 in 40+ mph winds never worked so he kept trying it. The one time we run on 3rd and 1 we gain five yards. Are you sure this guy still isn't on your pay roll?

 

Really? How well did the Steelers OLine play against Cleveland? They only gave up 8 sacks and a ton of pressure. That's "quite well", right? lol Steelers fail. This division pretty much fails from top to bottom. Cinci takes the division, but that just means they're the best of the bunch between our 4 average or below average teams.

[Spunkonmyback DPOY]

Really? How well did the Steelers OLine play against Cleveland? They only gave up 8 sacks and a ton of pressure. That's "quite well", right? lol Steelers fail. This division pretty much fails from top to bottom. Cinci takes the division, but that just means they're the best of the bunch between our 4 average or below average teams.

Most of Clevelands sacks came when Ben was waiting for someone to get open 30+ yards down field from a 5 wr formation on 3rd and 1. Atleast 5 of the Browns sacks came on 3rd and 7 or shorter becuase everyone's route was 20+ yards down field instead of around the first down line. When Ben's not in shotgun, there is actually a running back in the backfield and the D fears our run game enough to bite on PA, then Ben becomes the 3rd qb in NFL history to have 500+ yards, 3 tds, and 0 ints in a single game. Not to mention they were one of the best defenses (especially in passing) in the league. Chris Kemuateu (our best 0-lineman) was out and an UDRFA started in his place.

 

Regular season doesn't matter come playoff time. If 3 AFC North teams make the playoffs that would tie a recrd that can't possibly be broken.

[Ebenezer]

Most of Clevelands sacks came when Ben was waiting for someone to get open 30+ yards down field from a 5 wr formation on 3rd and 1. Atleast 5 of the Browns sacks came on 3rd and 7 or shorter becuase everyone's route was 20+ yards down field instead of around the first down line. When Ben's not in shotgun, there is actually a running back in the backfield and the D fears our run game enough to bite on PA, then Ben becomes the 3rd qb in NFL history to have 500+ yards, 3 tds, and 0 ints in a single game. Not to mention they were one of the best defenses (especially in passing) in the league. Chris Kemuateu (our best 0-lineman) was out and an UDRFA started in his place.

 

Regular season doesn't matter come playoff time. If 3 AFC North teams make the playoffs that would tie a recrd that can't possibly be broken.

 

You Steelers apologists are insane. It's XMas time, ask for a jersey for whatever team you want to bandwagon on next already and be done with it, because your explanations for how "quite well" the Steelers OLine have played this year are moving towards the delusional.

 

You might as well just hop on the Browns bandwagon. You'd fit right in with the delusional Mangini apologists.

[Spunkonmyback DPOY]

You Steelers apologists are insane. It's XMas time, ask for a jersey for whatever team you want to bandwagon on next already and be done with it, because your explanations for how "quite well" the Steelers OLine have played this year are moving towards the delusional.

 

You might as well just hop on the Browns bandwagon. You'd fit right in with the delusional Mangini apologists.

You pointed out the Steelers O-line single worst game of the year and I explained how horrible play calling made it easy for the Browns to get to Ben. Both things said are true. The entire team vastly underachieved in the 5 game losing streak, but second year starter Chris Kemuateu is earning talks of probowl and done some shuffling of the line due to injuries. Ben's having a career year, but our o-line has been much more consistant than Ben has. The have had some dominating blocking in the run game (2004-esque) but Arians normally refuses to run even on 3rd and 1 and goaline situations. Not apologizing, simply identifying the fired Cleveland Browns coach as the source of yet another problem for our offense.

 

No chance at jumping on the Browns bandwagon, I'll be with the Steelers until I die. Of course, being a Steeler fan means a possible cuase of death is drowning in a mass of Super Bowl trophies.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

Wow...I can't believe I overlooked this thread.

 

My take is simply that there is so much parity, especially in the AFC, that it's hard to pin down a "worst division."

 

You have Indy & San Diego, then quite a dropoff to Cincy & New England. I think there's no argument- Cincy qualifies as the best of our division (6-0 in division games). They nearly beat the Chargers out there yesterday...if Carson Palmer gets it together, they could make noise in the playoffs. The Steelers are still alive, but they won't go anywhere because of their O-line. The Ravens feast on lousy teams, still have hope, but aren't going anywhere either (if Haushka makes that FG vs. Minnesota, their season might have been different).

 

In the AFC East, Miami & the Jets are similar. They are good enough to scare a team in the Wild Card round (Cincy or NE), but Indy or SD will destroy them. Actually, I predicted the Jets would be 7-9 after they got Braylon, so at least one of my predictions can come true this year

 

Denver is doomed- I think we may witness history as they were 6-0, and probably won't even make the playoffs.

 

AFC South- Tennessee is a team no one would want to play, but they aren't a legit contender. Jacksonville will lose to the Browns on January 3rd. Houston is schizophrenic, like the Jets.

 

In the NFC, I think Minnesota is fading...it's going to come down to either Arizona or Philly @ New Orleans in the NFC Championship. Dallas is a long shot, but can could get hot. Green Bay is a pretender. The rest of the NFC (yes, even the NY Giants) blows.

 

The gap between the very good teams, and the good/average teams, has never been greater since the league went to 32 teams. Also, the amount of totally crappy/lousy teams has never been greater.

 

Go Browns, perhaps the best of the totally crappy/lousy teams

OAKLAND was crowned Best of the worst bu Cowherd today. Good case there as well. Fact is the Talent level in the NFL is so High that rising from the Bottom to the top is no longer all that amazing. Get the right management in place and You have a Shot at Glory quickly !!!