Why Do People Still Hold Out Hope For DA?

[WebsterSlaughter]

This site has some of the most knowledgeable Browns fans around. However I've noticed that there are still a number of people who think that DA can produce in this league. This is ridiculous. Check out these numbers. This year Anderson threw 3 TD's versus 10 INTs. He completed only 44.5% of his passes. His rating for the year was 42.1. These numbers are not even acceptable from a backup QB. There is no way a NFL, or College QB should complete less than 45% of their passes over a 7 game period. Unacceptable. Last year he completed only 50.2% of his passes. To make matters worse DA has 5 years of experience and continues to regress. There is no hope for this guy folks. Any good GM would strongly consider releasing this guy. He is paid way too much and has shown no sighs of improvement. It takes more than a rocket arm to play QB. This guy continues to show an ability to read defenses and complete even a screen pass. He hasn't even improved on his numbers from college. He has never completed more than 60% of his passes since high school. Nothing should make anyone think that he will ever be a good player. He has been weighed in the balances and found to be deficient.

[Kosar_For_President]

Webster, you are Buzz and I am Peter at 0:28.

 

[Gips]

DA played with more discipline and control than i would have thought possible last year ,proving that in the right system and the right coaching he can succeed in the nfl but mangini's scheme is not DAs bag of weed and while BQ could adjust to this system it isnt his cup of tea either ,since mangini was retained we will likely have to look elsewhere for the answer at QB..

[gmp]

This site has some of the most knowledgeable Browns fans around. However I've noticed that there are still a number of people who think that DA can produce in this league. This is ridiculous. Check out these numbers. This year Anderson threw 3 TD's versus 10 INTs. He completed only 44.5% of his passes. His rating for the year was 42.1. These numbers are not even acceptable from a backup QB. There is no way a NFL, or College QB should complete less than 45% of their passes over a 7 game period. Unacceptable. Last year he completed only 50.2% of his passes. To make matters worse DA has 5 years of experience and continues to regress. There is no hope for this guy folks. Any good GM would strongly consider releasing this guy. He is paid way too much and has shown no sighs of improvement. It takes more than a rocket arm to play QB. This guy continues to show an ability to read defenses and complete even a screen pass. He hasn't even improved on his numbers from college. He has never completed more than 60% of his passes since high school. Nothing should make anyone think that he will ever be a good player. He has been weighed in the balances and found to be deficient.

 

UMMM...because he's the best QB they gots....

I take it you've seen the other dude!!!!!...now that guy really sucks!!

 

[WebsterSlaughter]

DA played with more discipline and control than i would have thought possible last year ,proving that in the right system and the right coaching he can succeed in the nfl but mangini's scheme is not DAs bag of weed and while BQ could adjust to this system it isnt his cup of tea either ,since mangini was retained we will likely have to look elsewhere for the answer at QB..

 

What are you saying? Discipline and control? 3 INT's in one half versus Baltimore. 10 picks versus 3 TD's. 44.5% completion. Even crappy Quinn's numbers were much better. As much as Quinn stinks, even his numbers are trending upward, while DA's are going the opposite direction. If you don't believe me just check the stats.

 

 

 

Derek Anderson

 

Brady Quinn

 

I'm not here to make a case for Quinn, because there is none. The point is to just get people to stop clinging to Derek Anderson's fluke 2007 season. He is not good, and should not even be on our team.

[mopaji]

It has nothing to do with 2007. In fact, you'll find it very difficult to find a post where I point to 2007 for anything other than a fluke for the whole team. What you have to look at is this...

 

We have two bad QBs and until Tommy brings in another one, those two are our choices. Now, with two bad QBs here's what you look at to make a decision. The numbers tell part of the story but more important is how those numbers came to be. Haters call them excuses, scouts call that analysis.

 

DA has had 5 different Offensive coordinators in 5 years. That is a guaranteed recipe for disaster regardless of who you are. Watching DA, when he has been comfortable, he has played very well. He makes excellent reads, and he makes excellent throws. Granted he hasn't been comfortable very often. 5 different systems and an infinite number of WRs. Consider that, and then look at pure physical ability.

He has a huge arm which allows him to get the ball where it needs to be in a hurry. In the NFL, that is an absolute must.

He's tall and very rarely gets balls batted down (see Tim Couch).

He is composed in the pocket. He will take the hit everytime if it means a WR can get open.

 

Now look at Quinn. He has been in a few systems himself which can account for him looking scared sometimes. He too has not been comfortable its safe to say. But he still looks far less composed than DA does. Now look at the physical aspects to his game and this is where it gets hairy for Quinn.

 

No arm strength. Any ball over 15 yards is a moon shot. Anybody has a chance to grab it even DL. Now, the deep ball isn't an absolute must to be successful. The biggest benefit from a strong arm is getting the ball to the spot in a hurry on short and intermediate routes. Quinn cannot do this. He has to move his arm faster to get any velocity on it and then, it flutters ending up high, behind, low, or out of bounds. Just look at the last Baltimore game. Even with Baltimore playing a basic cover one with Ed Reed the lone safety, we had to throw bubble screens all night because Quinn cannot take advantage of that defense. Can you imagine if Ed Reed is back there and a ball comes fluttering through the air to a rookie WR? He'll have 5 pick 6s in that game. You will never see that defense with DA in the game and there are obvious reasons for that. Lack of zip on the ball makes it very hard to be accurate on any throw. Quinn also has to eat the ball a lot because there are plays that could be made but he can't make the throws. So, to avoid making a mistake, he takes the sack thus, improving the stat line. The truth is, plays are left on the field because he just cannot make them.

 

Quinn has zero composure in the pocket and seems unable to adapt on the fly. If the play called doesn't look exactly like he anticipates it, he panics, rolls out, and gets sacked. After 3 years in the league, this should be a million times better. In a nutshell he just hasn't shown any improvement whatsover. He plays the same now as he did his rookie year.

 

Now, we would all rather have another QB altogether but as of right now, this is what we have. And when you look at it, DA is a much better option. I want Kevin Kolb but if we're going into the season with what we have now, it will be DA. And we will be running the ball. A lot.

 

So it has nothing to do with 2007. It has to do with watching the games and asking yourself why they play like they do. And when you figure it out, DA is the better of the two. He may be the 28th best in the league, but its better than being 33rd.

[WebsterSlaughter]

It has nothing to do with 2007. In fact, you'll find it very difficult to find a post where I point to 2007 for anything other than a fluke for the whole team. What you have to look at is this...

 

We have two bad QBs and until Tommy brings in another one, those two are our choices. Now, with two bad QBs here's what you look at to make a decision. The numbers tell part of the story but more important is how those numbers came to be. Haters call them excuses, scouts call that analysis.

 

DA has had 5 different Offensive coordinators in 5 years. That is a guaranteed recipe for disaster regardless of who you are. Watching DA, when he has been comfortable, he has played very well. He makes excellent reads, and he makes excellent throws. Granted he hasn't been comfortable very often. 5 different systems and an infinite number of WRs. Consider that, and then look at pure physical ability.

He has a huge arm which allows him to get the ball where it needs to be in a hurry. In the NFL, that is an absolute must.

He's tall and very rarely gets balls batted down (see Tim Couch).

He is composed in the pocket. He will take the hit everytime if it means a WR can get open.

 

Now look at Quinn. He has been in a few systems himself which can account for him looking scared sometimes. He too has not been comfortable its safe to say. But he still looks far less composed than DA does. Now look at the physical aspects to his game and this is where it gets hairy for Quinn.

 

No arm strength. Any ball over 15 yards is a moon shot. Anybody has a chance to grab it even DL. Now, the deep ball isn't an absolute must to be successful. The biggest benefit from a strong arm is getting the ball to the spot in a hurry on short and intermediate routes. Quinn cannot do this. He has to move his arm faster to get any velocity on it and then, it flutters ending up high, behind, low, or out of bounds. Just look at the last Baltimore game. Even with Baltimore playing a basic cover one with Ed Reed the lone safety, we had to throw bubble screens all night because Quinn cannot take advantage of that defense. Can you imagine if Ed Reed is back there and a ball comes fluttering through the air to a rookie WR? He'll have 5 pick 6s in that game. You will never see that defense with DA in the game and there are obvious reasons for that. Lack of zip on the ball makes it very hard to be accurate on any throw. Quinn also has to eat the ball a lot because there are plays that could be made but he can't make the throws. So, to avoid making a mistake, he takes the sack thus, improving the stat line. The truth is, plays are left on the field because he just cannot make them.

 

Quinn has zero composure in the pocket and seems unable to adapt on the fly. If the play called doesn't look exactly like he anticipates it, he panics, rolls out, and gets sacked. After 3 years in the league, this should be a million times better. In a nutshell he just hasn't shown any improvement whatsover. He plays the same now as he did his rookie year.

 

Now, we would all rather have another QB altogether but as of right now, this is what we have. And when you look at it, DA is a much better option. I want Kevin Kolb but if we're going into the season with what we have now, it will be DA. And we will be running the ball. A lot.

 

So it has nothing to do with 2007. It has to do with watching the games and asking yourself why they play like they do. And when you figure it out, DA is the better of the two. He may be the 28th best in the league, but its better than being 33rd.

 

If DA is the better option, then why were his number much worse than Quinn's? Why did he only complete 44.5% of his passes? Why did Quinn have more YPA? Why did DA have more INT's with nearly 80 less pass attempts than Quinn? Do you watch the games? DA also has a lot of passes batted down. An inordinate amount for a guy who's 6' 6". DA is not a better option. Crappy Quinn outperformed him in every category. I don't understand the DA love.

 

[DeadWombat]

I love DA because he has such big..... feet.

[choco]

what board have you been reading.....current topics include how to get kevin kolb and other FA QB's to get rid of the dead weight we call cleveland browns QB's.

 

BQ does some things better than DA, and the vice versa is also true. however, the one thing a QB must be able to do.....throw a football.....is not the strong siut of either guy. one has a gun, neither are accurate.

 

but to answer your question, one has won. one has not.

[Riffer X]

DA doesn't get balls batted down?

 

Seriously, do some of you people actually watch the Browns play and then watch the rest of the league?

 

Come on

[Drunkandstoopid]

Webster... numbers don't tell the whole story. Put any QB in the 2nd half of the Baltimore game and tell him to air it out to a bunch of guys that don't even run the routes right, while Baltimore's defense KNOWS you are going to air it out, and there are going to be ints. DA played with the team he practiced with all fall vs. Cincy, and produced real well, it should have been a tie but wasn't due to a poor ref call at the end. At that point .... ALL new receivers. #1 gone. Part time rookie #2 becomes #1, #2 was Cribbs/Robiskie/Furry?... can't remember it all, but there was not 1 receiver on the team ('cept Heiden, playing with an injured finger/hand) that had any experience at that position with the team. There were changes at other offensive spots as well. So you got QB new to the system AND the receivers, receivers new to the system AND the QB, offensive line shuffles... and a Head Coach that just kicked a QB off the field for throwing 3 yard low risk passes to the outlet guy. Stats will suffer.

 

What coaches are going to look at is... the situations the QB were put in - yep, most coaches want to put their QBs in situations where they can be successful - , did the QB attempt to do what he's asked to do in the system, were factors outside the QBs actions (other positions not getting it done) affecting the results of the plays, number of mistakes made and ability to recover from them, all sorts of stuff outside of straight stats.

 

DA doesn't have good statistics, that's a given. It's obvious that Quinn has a better completion percentage, but what did that give the team? More wins? At some point coaches decide what kind of offense they put on the field. Some here are apparently happy with a low risk, low reward passing game. Ever occur to you that at least some coaches in the league are willing to accept some risk for higher reward? DA is not going to be a good QB in every system, but in the right system he could fit quite well with the skill set he possesses. I'm not saying the Browns should cater to his skill set, Mangini and co need to decide what they want in a QB and get the right guy for their system.

[mopaji]

If DA is the better option, then why were his number much worse than Quinn's? Why did he only complete 44.5% of his passes? Why did Quinn have more YPA? Why did DA have more INT's with nearly 80 less pass attempts than Quinn? Do you watch the games? DA also has a lot of passes batted down. An inordinate amount for a guy who's 6' 6". DA is not a better option. Crappy Quinn outperformed him in every category. I don't understand the DA love.

 

 

Webbie, there is no DA love. Just some Browns fans trying to look at the sh** heap we have to choose from, and wanting the best guy available for the job. And again with the stats, my entire post was an explanation. of the stats and how they only tell part of the story. Albeit, a rushed explanation, but still an explanation.

 

See Drunkandstoopid's post above.

[Alendor]

the funny thing as bad as everyone says BQ is, he solidly outperformed DA this season. So any comment on how bad BQ stinks is pretty much also saying how DA sux.

[WebsterSlaughter]

I keep hearing about high risk high reward for DA. What reward did we get? 3TD passes in 7 games? Quinn played under the same circumstances and was not even as terrible. If you have to pick a terrible from the 2, Quinn is clearly the better option. Even with his dink and dunk, noodle armed approach he still had a higher YPA then rocket armed "high reward" Anderson. If that's the case, what does that say about how bad Anderson really is? Remember Anderson's numbers are trending downwards. He's not getting better folks. AS much as he stinks Quinn numbers this year are better than last years, and he still has less career starts than Mark Sanchez.

[Alendor]

every single time DA has sat for a while, or the offseason starts, everyone seems to regain faith in him. Then the first game he plays, everyone is reminded of just how bad he is. Wether hes fumbling a snap/handoff, getting his fat feet stepped on, getting a ball batted at the line, throwing ints, not picking up blitz.

 

some people here have a short memory, and have a grass is always greener outlook, even after they've visted the other side multiple times and been dissapointed.

 

the bottom line is, regardless of how bad BQ played, he had what, an 8-10 game season in his first year of starting, and solidly outperformed a QB that has 2 full years of starting, about 3 seasons worth of starts under his belt, and has been in the league 2-3 years longer.

[choco]

the funny thing as bad as everyone says BQ is, he solidly outperformed DA this season. So any comment on how bad BQ stinks is pretty much also saying how DA sux.

this is xxxxing priceless.....

 

neither "solidly" outperformed the other.....both were painful to watch. if we could merge the 2, we'd have a solid QB.

 

im still waiting to see the passing numbers we were led to believe boy wonder could produce.....most NFL-ready QB...right?

 

 

dump 'em both and start over.....although, quinn does look good carrying a clipboard. he's a functional backup for us i think.....

 

 

[Alendor]

Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT% Long Sck Sack/Lost Rating

 

Brady Quinn 256 136 1339 53.1 5.2 8 3.1 7 2.7 59 19 104 67.2

 

Derek Anderson 182 81 888 44.5 4.9 3 1.6 10 5.5 43 11 75 42.1

 

thats pretty solid imo, regardless how bad the winner is, the difference is pretty clear

 

they both played roughtly the same amount, and they both had playing time early and at the end of the season. conisering DA has 2 seasons as a starter under his belt and still underperformed against a first year starter flatout means he sux.

 

this isn't about one being good and the other being bad, we can agree they both played bad. but DA played way worse

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Old timers on here have been listening to this shit for years. In my opinion both need to be traded. BQ sucks, DA sucks. End of discussion. Lets get a vet and a draft pick QB and start over. The experiment is a failure.

[Riffer X]

Old timers on here have been listening to this shit for years. In my opinion both need to be traded. BQ sucks, DA sucks. End of discussion. Lets get a vet and a draft pick QB and start over. The experiment is a failure.

 

I know for a fact DA sucks, so he needs to go. I think Queen may suck, but he doesn't have to go cuz he doesn't cost that much. They can address QB in many different ways and still keep Queen since he won't demand much in trade now anyway.

[Drunkandstoopid]

I keep hearing about high risk high reward for DA. What reward did we get? 3TD passes in 7 games? Quinn played under the same circumstances and was not even as terrible.

Quinn played under the same circumstances? Once again, Quinn started the season with players that he'd been practcing with all fall playing the same position they played in games one through three. Quinn started each of those games with a 0-0 tie, and playing in Mangini's system, he clearly played poorly. Anderson's first appearance he came in 20 points in the hole, and the coaches asked him to change the game to see if he could generate some movement, he clearly played poorly... but it wasn't anything like the circumstances Quinn played under.

 

In the Cincy game he came in under pretty much the same circumstances as Quinn had played under.. start at a 0-0 tie, run the offense, with guys playing the position they'd practice most of the fall... and the team obviously moved better, playing the division Champ to essentially a tie.

 

Next game... #1 receiver... gone... everyone shifts spots on 3 days of practice. ESPN and other outlets report that DA hits the receivers IN THE HANDS on 13 of 17 passes, with 2 of those being uncatchable, 2 are caught and the receivers are credited wtih 9 drops. Hardly the same circumstances Quinn played under.

 

Changes continue to be made on the offensive line and receiver for a few games then start to settle down. Anderson plays poorly during this period, manages a win in one game. Once the lineup stops shuffling, the team gets a bye week and Quinn is reinserted to give it another try. He'd been practicing with that lineup for a couple weeks, yet looks pretty darned crappy first game back.

 

At that point, the team starts to gel, both QBs get starts and look pretty crummy in the last 4 wins. That's about the only time in the season one can honestly say both QBs played under similar circumstances for a couple games each, and neither did all that well.

 

I'm not so sure DA is the guy for Mangini's offense, Quinn neither. DA's got potential in the right system because the threat of the big play from the QB exists. Quinn's biggest play the last half of the season was a single third down run for a first, not exactly a thing opposing defenses have to scheme for on a regular basis.

[DumAssWhiteGuy]

I love DA because he has such big..... feet.

 

LOL, I'm starting to think that's the reason for the infatuation with DA!

 

Big feet = Big meat....Is this true? DA lovers want to know!

[letmedowns]

My first thought was wtf is this guy talking about. Who in the hell holds hope for DA? Then I read a couple of posts where people backed him... Wtf, seriuosly? The only way you guys are still pimping him is to mess with others on here. No way do you actually think he's good. No F-ing way.

DA sucks as well as the "now I'm done guy." Get the hell over it and let's get a real QB. Bunch of douches.

[kshutchins]

Part of the problem with trying to evaluate the QBs is that the rest of the team has been so bad, the average fan can't tell where the fault lies for the poor performances. I'd venture to say that the rest of the team has been so bad that the coaches have been having a difficult time making the same judgement.

[choco]

you further my point alendor....

 

DA, who played poorly with a 42 rating on the year, was beaten by quinn, who posted a 67 on the year.

 

i remember DA getting ripped in '07 because his rating was below 80....if a 67 is "solidly" beating 42, then i just found another opinion worth ignoring.

 

 

slightly better than absolutely terrible is still xxxxing terrible. but not in this case cause some people like the way his ass looks in tights.

[Riffer X]

Part of the problem with trying to evaluate the QBs is that the rest of the team has been so bad, the average fan can't tell where the fault lies for the poor performances. I'd venture to say that the rest of the team has been so bad that the coaches have been having a difficult time making the same judgement.

 

I have no trouble seeing that DA sucks. He sucked bad this year, he sucked bad last year and even in 07 he sucked but put up some numbers thanks to the oline, Winslow, JJ and Edwards.

 

If you can't complete dump offs in the NFL, you probably suck.

 

He sucks.

 

Queen? Jury is still out but I'm leaning toward suck. DA is proven commodity suck.

 

Either way, I have a feeling we may see a big name QB in here next year like a McNabb.

[mopaji]

you further my point alendor....

 

DA, who played poorly with a 42 rating on the year, was beaten by quinn, who posted a 67 on the year.

 

i remember DA getting ripped in '07 because his rating was below 80....if a 67 is "solidly" beating 42, then i just found another opinion worth ignoring.

 

 

slightly better than absolutely terrible is still xxxxing terrible. but not in this case cause some people like the way his ass looks in tights.

Its not a gay thing so much as we currently have 2 guys to pick from. Both bad but one has the potential to make plays with his arm and the other has the potential to hand off effectively and charm the pants off of the love struck local sports writers. And until they bring in a consistently effective QB, these are our options. And if you ask me, neither one is all that handsome.

[DawgTracker]

I'm not in love with either of them, I think they both suck. Both of them have been coached up for three years the improvement by now should be obvious.

 

DA sometimes makes intermediate throws that make you say "There are only a few QBs in this league who can make that throw". Then he will make plays that make you say "Only a few QBs in the NFL cannot complete that short pass". As least with DA I can see the physical potential for sucess but when brady throws the ball more than ten yards it is seldom pretty and would be worse with bad weather. Add in a couple of years where brady ended the season on IR and the answer to me is NONE OF THE ABOVE

[Alendor]

you further my point alendor....

 

DA, who played poorly with a 42 rating on the year, was beaten by quinn, who posted a 67 on the year.

 

i remember DA getting ripped in '07 because his rating was below 80....if a 67 is "solidly" beating 42, then i just found another opinion worth ignoring.

 

 

slightly better than absolutely terrible is still xxxxing terrible. but not in this case cause some people like the way his ass looks in tights.

 

its funny, your complain that someone is being extremely biased, when you yourself are doing exactly that, and putting words in people's mouth just to hear what you wanna hear.

 

i never said BQ wasn't terrible, i never said he was good. I went out of my way to say that he sucked. regardless of how bad he SUCKED, he solidy outperformed DA. he did better to an extent that you can't blame it on 1 or 2 games, or a certain situation. theres no gray area, BQ while SUCKING, still did better than DA.

 

now if you wanna close your eye, plug your ears and keep repeating to yourself "i'm not listening, i'm not listening," go right ahead, but facts are facts. BQ sucked hard, and was in his first year as a starter, and still outperformed DA. that is how bad DA sucks. If DA had started a few more games he would have qualified for being the WORST PASSER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NFL.

[hoorta]

Its not a gay thing so much as we currently have 2 guys to pick from. Both bad but one has the potential to make plays with his arm and the other has the potential to hand off effectively and charm the pants off of the love struck local sports writers. And until they bring in a consistently effective QB, these are our options. And if you ask me, neither one is all that handsome.

 

Doesn't matter if DA can "make plays" he's no more accurate than Quinn, he still can't read a defense, or throw a touch pass. BTW, DA can't throw an accurate swing pass 1\2 the time with zero pressure on him either- so drop the subject "we're keeping DA". At least Quinn has learned to throw the ball away if his guy is covered.

 

PS I checked out Manning, Brees, and Warner tonight- DA isn't even bench warmer material. Quinn might not be either, but he's better than DA.