Skinny Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 cleveland.com 3. Otto Graham, Cleveland Browns: Most football fans under the age of 50 aren't familiar with him, but Graham was a great passer. He starred in the 1940s and 1950s, but he could have played with this generation of quarterbacks. Counting the Browns' play in the old All-America Football Conference (AAFC) -- as recognized by the Pro Football Hall Of Fame -- he guided the team to 10 division or league crowns in 10 years. Interesting point back to the Super Bowl vs. World Championship argument. Yes we Don't have a "superbowl" yet, but that makes it pretty clear we have Championships that do in fact count. Thats if the Hall of Fame means anything. Also wanted to know if you old timers that have seen him play think he could play with this generation, like Clayton believes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 cleveland.com 3. Otto Graham, Cleveland Browns: Most football fans under the age of 50 aren't familiar with him, but Graham was a great passer. He starred in the 1940s and 1950s, but he could have played with this generation of quarterbacks. Counting the Browns' play in the old All-America Football Conference (AAFC) -- as recognized by the Pro Football Hall Of Fame -- he guided the team to 10 division or league crowns in 10 years. Interesting point back to the Super Bowl vs. World Championship argument. Yes we Don't have a "superbowl" yet, but that makes it pretty clear we have Championships that do in fact count. Thats if the Hall of Fame means anything. Also wanted to know if you old timers that have seen him play think he could play with this generation, like Clayton believes. Otto was badass, I watched some full games on Classic (besides just highlites) and he could play now. Real good athlete, strong and could run or pass. He was no Mark Malone, but hey, who is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Posted January 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Right on. My dad always talk about watching him and Jim Brown. I always wished I could have seen it. It's just not the same online Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 JB and Graham would just be average in today's NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samoth Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 My wife's grandpa used to go to the Browns games when Graham was the QB. He said he'd never seen before or since a player who commanded the field like Otto, and that he threw the most beautiful ball you'd ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 JB and Graham would just be average in today's NFL I used to have your line of thinking but there are a few players that supersede eras. Brown and Graham are definitely two of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 JB and Graham would just be average in today's NFL Graham? Maybe. Brown. Nope. Do you realize when he retired he had broken the career yardage mark by 5,000 yards? Literally, the Babe Ruth of his era. JB ran track at Syracuse, and is in the Lacrosse HOF to boot. Played college hoops too. I just saw this stat, and it's mind boggling- Brown averaged 14.5 ypc in high school! The guy retired at 29, and never missed a game! He had nothing left to prove in football. Do the math- If JB had pulled a Jerry Rice and played until he couldn't play anymore- say 39, and give him a very conservative 800 yards a season- he would have topped out at over 20,000 yards, and every running back in the NFL would still be trying to break his record. And don't forget Brown set that record in the era of 12 and 14 game seasons. Even allowing for the bigger faster CBs & LBs in today's NFL- he'd still be one of the best, if not the best. Think LaDanian Tomlinson without the injuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 JB and Graham would just be average in today's NFL Well, no, Graham wouldn't be average in today's NFL, because he is dead. But JB might be average. He is 74 years old, but he could probably outrun half the RBs in the league now. ERR, or, do you mean, uh, if they were in their PRIME right now? If they were in their prime right now they would probably be the leading runner and leading passer respectively in the NFL. Physically, Jim Brown was bigger, faster, stronger than any running backs we have today. At 6' 2" 232 pounds he is the proto body type for an NFL back, even now. Graham would also be premier. He was 6'1" 200 which makes him about the same stature as the likes of Kurt Warner, Drew Brees, and Brett Favre. Those guys weigh a bit more, but with today's conditioning, Otto would have likely played a more like 215, 220. Sanchez and Manning are a bit taller, but Otto would be right in with the average height of an NFL QB. The difference was his intelligence. You forget, he went to Northwestern, which is one of the best academic schools in the nation. Plus he was the Athletic Director of the Coast Guard Academy. Another funny thing about his intellect: although he did not do that well in 3 years as an NFL HC, in 1963 he coached the College All Stars to an upset of defending NFL Champions Green Bay Packers coached by Vince Lombardi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Graham? Maybe. Brown. Nope. Do you realize when he retired he had broken the career yardage mark by 5,000 yards? Literally, the Babe Ruth of his era. JB ran track at Syracuse, and is in the Lacrosse HOF to boot. Played college hoops too. I just saw this stat, and it's mind boggling- Brown averaged 14.5 ypc in high school! The guy retired at 29, and never missed a game! He had nothing left to prove in football. Do the math- If JB had pulled a Jerry Rice and played until he couldn't play anymore- say 39, and give him a very conservative 800 yards a season- he would have topped out at over 20,000 yards, and every running back in the NFL would still be trying to break his record. And don't forget Brown set that record in the era of 12 and 14 game seasons. Even allowing for the bigger faster CBs & LBs in today's NFL- he'd still be one of the best, if not the best. Think LaDanian Tomlinson without the injuries. JB was bigger, and sturdier than both Tomlinson and Adrian Peterson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 OH, yea, don't forget, Otto Graham was also named All Pro 9 out of 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 what is the weight of an average DLineman that JB played against, as well as LB's. Their speeds, strength etc... I guarantee its ALOT less then what RBs face today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 what is the weight of an average DLineman that JB played against, as well as LB's. Their speeds, strength etc... I guarantee its ALOT less then what RBs face today Yes, it was. But like I said, the D Linemen today do NOT face any RBs that are any bigger, faster, stronger than JB was. And no RBs today have the instinct for running the ball that JB had. Or, if they do, they do not possess the combination of speed, strength, size and instinct that JB had. The guy WAS a complete freak of nature for his age. He is kinda like The Beatles or Roy Hobbs, the best there ever was, the best there ever will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Otto was badass, I watched some full games on Classic (besides just highlites) and he could play now. Real good athlete, strong and could run or pass. He was no Mark Malone, but hey, who is? It is so nice to see that you understand the best of the best ......................go beyond vogue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samoth Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 what is the weight of an average DLineman that JB played against, as well as LB's. Their speeds, strength etc... I guarantee its ALOT less then what RBs face today That's true but the size of the offensive linemen who face them has also gone up significantly. Steven Jackson is a good comparison to Jim Brown. They're about the same size, and both fast and extremely strong. Look at what Jackson does on an awful team like the Rams and picture him on a dynasty like the 50s-60s Browns. That's probably a pretty close analogy to Jim Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 cleveland.com 3. Otto Graham, Cleveland Browns: Most football fans under the age of 50 aren't familiar with him, but Graham was a great passer. He starred in the 1940s and 1950s, but he could have played with this generation of quarterbacks. Counting the Browns' play in the old All-America Football Conference (AAFC) -- as recognized by the Pro Football Hall Of Fame -- he guided the team to 10 division or league crowns in 10 years. Interesting point back to the Super Bowl vs. World Championship argument. Yes we Don't have a "superbowl" yet, but that makes it pretty clear we have Championships that do in fact count. Thats if the Hall of Fame means anything. Also wanted to know if you old timers that have seen him play think he could play with this generation, like Clayton believes. I qualify as a old timer....sure he could....I would assume he would have had the same advantages to updated training methods. Otto was a hell of a QB....and could some of the QB's of today make it back then, when you didn't have facemasks and rules pretty much not allowing defenders to touch your eyes or break your ribs? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich4eagle Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 I qualify as a old timer....sure he could....I would assume he would have had the same advantages to updated training methods. Otto was a hell of a QB....and could some of the QB's of today make it back then, when you didn't have facemasks and rules pretty much not allowing defenders to touch your eyes or break your ribs? LOL gIMME a break in todays rules.............otto would never have lost a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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