Gunz41

1 hour ago, PoeticG said:

What would it take to get into the Top Ten? 

Our 1st, 2nd, 4th and a 2nd next year?

We don't need a lot of picks right now. Develop what we have and go for Quality over Quantity IMO.

If we can dip into the top ten for a Stud LB, even if it cost us the entire draft, that's what we really need I believe. 

Yea, and you are way off too.

The Chiefs trade (27 to 10) was #27, 3rd round pick, and next year #1.

1 hour ago, Tour2ma said:

Do the symptoms include the... I want to say "planking, but I know that's wrong... the involuntary arm and leg extending that the Dr. that ATOM posted was talking about?

 

EDIT: Term was "fencing response" and it was Nero that made the original post which ATOM quoted.

I have no clue. The one serious one I witnessed was after someone had an IV put in, eyes rolled back of head and like passed out and whole body tensed up. Somewhat like a seizure, without the shake. About 30 seconds later back to normal.

This can be moved then. I had no idea there was one already 

32 minutes ago, Vagitron said:

😉

I'm actually talking about a real medical event tho. The chiefs are saying pinched nerve and his wooziness is attributed to that and not his head hitting the ground SO your take that it didn't hit very hard is accurate. 

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/vasovagal-syncope/symptoms-causes/syc-20350527#:~:text=Vasovagal syncope (vay-zoh-,blood pressure to drop suddenly.

And Mahomes one was minor. I have seen a serious vasovagal and it is pretty scary. 

Obviously defensive guys galore.

But an offensive guy I would seriously consider in mid to late rounds is Anthony Schwartz WR from Auburn. Will certainly take top off defense. 

4.27 40

6'1 180

1 hour ago, browns52 said:

our dc sucks......

Not saying he is great, but he was severely hamstrung this year. Brand new, not a lot of prep time because of covid, and then add on the injuries/covid, and even then those guys just might not be starting caliber guys.

Sure, the Chiefs probably score over 30 with Mahomes, but they are the defending Champs and I think are still the favorite to repeat. You don't think that Woods and his gameplan had a thing to do with that? Especially when considering that there are 2 positions on the D that aren't looked at as major needs? Garrett and Ward.

There is nobody individually in the league that can hold Hill, the closest would be Ramsey. But if you double him, they also have the best TE in the league. They are a GREAT offense of talent and a great mind at HC and OC. How Bieniemy doesn't have a HC job is crazy.

Running a zone defense is what you do predominantly when you are overmatched. And don't forget, that even if he isn't brought back (I wouldn't with his price tag and having other guys to prioritize resigning and extensions) that Vernon was playing a big part, especially when you factor in Myles just wasn't the same guy after Covid. 

10 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

OK, now, about this "fit"....    Y'all seem to be using that term in different contexts.     You seem to be saying that "fit" means if we are loaded at a position....say DT,  then drafting another DT would not be  the most prudent move for the team....given other needs. That I get.    But I didn't take it that that is what Dutch was talking about (though, actually, he didn't explain anything about what he was talking about, he just went all PMS).    The other "fit"  is that supposedly a guy is not the right kind of player for some certain designated scheme that a team wants to run defensively;  because he played in a 4-3 rather than a 3-4....or because he is used to  playing  upright rather than putting his hand on the ground.    My contention being that talent supercedes all that. If you can get a guy that can tackle like hell, or rush the passer like hell....you get him if you need him notwithstanding what "system"  you may think he is suited for.....and, again, my contention being that  you suit your system to your talent...or, especially with like a 20 year old  talent  like Barmore, you coach him up and have him adapt. 

Doesn't that seem fair? 

Of course. And I don't know what he was meaning?

All I was saying is that from what I read, I guess I assumed that he was talking about Smith not Barmore, since you had talked about both in the thread.

Barmore certainly would be on my board. Smith would be too, but if there is someone comparable to his grade on the defensive side (even if you believe Smith will be better) you want to look at need 

Just now, The Gipper said:

Just fucking with you.  I believe you are Knute Rockne reincarnated!  

Nobody said that, I don't even pretend to be the most knowledgeable person on this board, certainly don't know more than A LOT of people in the country, and of course I am biased, but I have a coaching father who knows more than me (shh. Dont tell him that).

My whole point with that, is that someone who hasn't been there (nothing wrong with that, and not saying NFL obviously) may not have the same insight 

2 minutes ago, tiamat63 said:

Depends on the defensive player, position and where I have them ranked in their said position group. Smith is WR #1 in this draft.   If I get the best player to fall to me (without medical concern) and my option is him against, let's say the 5th rated LB? - then I'm taking the receiver.    

This defense needs help, zero doubt about that and I'm sure my amateur eyes will find some great additions day 2 and beyond.   But the offense is what cost the Browns a date with Buffalo. Don't be so quick to dismiss our need for a true perimeter threat, especially if ODB doesn't come back healthy.  

I agree, but I am basing that off of OBJ being back. If he is gone then absolutely. But again it depends on what is left. 

44 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Sorry if you can't keep up.  

Yeah, I think I (and everyone else here) will take my years and years of experience and knowledge in the game as opposed to a judge who has admitted on this site never played a down???

Prove it.   Provide your resume.  (and why with all your experience do you not know how to copy and paste?)

I'm guessing this is supposed to be somehow directed at me. Which if so makes it even funnier, since you are trying to discredit based on not knowing how to copy and paste, and didn't even tag the correct person. And 2, I have no idea how that has a thing to do with football knowledge but ok???

And secondly, I don't care what you or anyone else believes. But I absolutely am not going to put my personal information online somewhere that I don't know the security of it, especially with people I don't know (and that is absolutely no offense to anyone). I'm pretty dumb, but not that dumb.

I don't know why everyone else believes me, and you don't want to. I certainly don't know what I would have to gain by lying about that? But go ahead and believe what you want

1 minute ago, tiamat63 said:

 He won't be there, so it really doesn't matter.

In some Narnia-land-ass pipe dream? That's beyond an easy call.    His footwork and strong hands are just special.

Of course he won't, but there was some confusion about who someone who Gipper was replying to was talking about. So that is where the question came from.

No doubt that he is special, and I think he fits on any team, but WR just isn't a need on this team. So if Smith is left, but you also have 3 d guys left rated in 1st round, I take the D guy

8 hours ago, tiamat63 said:

Oh, is that what they're calling it now? 

@Gunz41

What is this you've tagged me in? I'm in no mental condition to go back multiple pages and read at this time.

Sorry confused myself in the 2 threads.

Just went up the page on to tag a few to ask IF Devonta Smith were available at 26 if Browns should take him

32 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

I was talking about Barmore.    He responded directly to my comment about Barmore.    Here is his statement:  If he fits what the Browns are trying to do on defense, yes. 

Well you were talking about both.

If Barmore is there, depending on fit (i.e. what have coming back, FA, etc.) Then I certainly would look. But I think that DL was the least of Browns worries on D this year.

I don't see Smith being the next Harvin, but just say Smith is "ranked" 5th and is somehow still available. I don't think he fits the NEED for Browns. 

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

Well...you are now already on my "ignorant" list. 

Think about it......you have this Barmore guy.  He is 6'5"   315 lbs.   Which makes him a Man Monster.  But not just that.   He was the defensive MVP of the National Championship game.  He was  1st team  ALL SEC.  He made some  All American teams.  Yet you say that you would cross him off your list for consideration even  because he may not "fit" some preconceived plan?   Do you think he is a robot, only programmed to do certain things.  He is a scentient human being. He is only like 20 years old.  I think he may be adaptable to various system some DCs may want to run if he has all that raw natural talent.    Now, if he does not have it...that is another thing.  But how can one legitimately just cross him off because of some claim of "lack of fit"? 

Pretty sure he was talking about Smith, not Barmore

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

 

Yeah, I think I (and everyone else here) will take my years and years of experience and knowledge in the game as opposed to a judge who has admitted on this site never played a down???

Don't want to take my opinion, lets ask... @Tour2ma, @hoorta, @Dutch Oven, @Nero, @tiamat63???

18 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

 

Yes they are, but this isn't college??? I have no clue why you felt the need to tell me that, when you know that is something I would know.

And sure, if you want to just look at one play (then really it would be 6, especially when considering the amount of hate Parkey has gotten on here). And I won't even go full dissection into you to answer. All I will say is that having a 16 point lead vs. an at best 9 point lead is huge in a coaches mind/play calling. And if you want to point out 1 play that really hurt the Browns, couldn't the Chiefs do the same with Mahomes. The Browns almost assuredly don't hold Chiefs to 22 with PM. But that is besides the point.

I will say it again, a VERY BAD missed call. They happen. The officials didn't miss it on purpose. And since this is the ONLY area of field that you can lose the ball like that, regardless of the hit, need to be a bit safer there. The exact same thing can and has happened with legal hits. 

15 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Looks like lowering his head to make contact to me.  I mean, I assume they did a review on this... 

Why can't a review catch an obvious penalty like this? 

That is a play that has to be called on the field. Replay can't overturn it. I would like to think that it will be looked at over the off-season and some kind of change will come.

I don't know if couldn't watch it as normal or what, but the hit was what caused the fumble, which caused the touchback.

Now, since I try to always view things from an unbiased and coaching perspective, that one call did NOT cost Cleveland the game. It CHANGED the game without a doubt, but I have always been of the mindset that one play doesn't determine the outcome. Even if that happened the last play of the game, or even like the Saints game a few years ago. There are multiple plays I could point out that hurt 

2 minutes ago, The Gipper said:

Very Valiant Effort.   A 5 point loss when some thought it would be a wipeout?    If not for that fumble at the goal line it couild have been a different story.   I thought he was over before the fumble.....but I did not get to see the replay.  Can you confirm that it was indeed a fumble before he crossed the line?  

Confirmation 

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Certainly in that ballpark as a sum of individuals, but there has to be some weighting of positions.

Nah, got to keep it close for Cleveland. Because once you factor in other spots in starts to flip

3 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

So all tied up... 3 to 3...

I'd be happy to do the OL en masse...

 

+5 - +10 Cleveland

12 hours ago, Tour2ma said:

Cool... no one ever does these around here.

Gunz... How about we each take one Offensive starter and one Defensive starter?

Only one question... Is there a one point limit per position or can we go 2 (or more) if the lopsidedness of the pairing warrants more?

 

Offense first...

I'll start with TE. Put that one in the KC column. .. two if the Commish says that is allowed.

Travis Kelce is the best TE still playing. There a reason he is the 1st-team All-Pro TE for 2020-21.

Even were the Raiders still alive I'd put him ahead of Waller, if for no other reason than Travis has been performing at a high level for longer... but keep your eye on former QB turned TE Logan Thomas. He's a comer...

 

For Defense...

I'll go with a DT... Richardson vs. Jones... put one more, but only one more, point in the KC column.

Richardson has impressed this season, but Jones may be second only to LAR's Donald as a DT talent. Jones was edged out by Indy's emergent DT, Buckner, for the 1st-team spot alongside Donald, but Jones has been at a high level longer.

I wasn't really trying to get anyone to really do it, just figured of some way to change the topic onto the current team by using an argument from the last.

I did figure someone would do it though.

But since you aren't one to do that, I will take your challenge, but I'll take the positive side.

RB: +2 for the Browns. Chubb is a top 3 back. Now while CEH is a 1st round pick and had a few big games, he certainly doesn't match up.

DE: I'll go conservative and say +1 for Garrett over Clark. When fully healthy, Garrett is a top 3 defender in football, but Clark is no slouch, and currently Garrett isn't himself 

Since the conversation was brought up with regards to last opponent, but mainly to get the conversation on to the current one, and since most seem to feel (Nationally, not here) the Browns have no chance and aren't even close to as good. Let's compare them to Chiefs.

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

 

Again, you are not comprehending, whether on purpose or not (I have a feeling it's a bit of both), and it could be my fault I guess.

I am not saying that you have to agree with, or that it is a known to me or anyone else either.

What I am saying is that if you are using the current team of the Browns vs. Steelers (for example Teller), then you are basing that assessment on this past season. So it's only fair to assess vs. Steelers the same way. So sure, there is no question that by potential the Browns DB should improve next year, but if you are going to rate one off of performance, it's disingenuous to cop out to another because it won't fit your narrative or to use not seeing enough, or whatever justification you want to use like that.

And nobody is comparing the Jags to anyone. Just pointing out that by just pointing at potential would give that impression, based on many variables (i.e. draft position, college success, and draft grade). Point being there have been COUNTLESS players who have came into the league with loads of potential, looked GREAT in college, and for a multitude of reasons didn't pan out. 

1 hour ago, The Gipper said:

 

The only part I am going to respond to (not meaning anything is bad) is the:

Yep, that's all I can do.

I think you missed the point. You are using the potential of the DB and saying injuries (which is obviously a fact that they have had injuries), to say it is an unknown.

But since you are comparing the two teams at present, to be fair and honest, you have to use what the Browns have shown currently. And that is a very low DB field. 

If you don't want to do that and just go on potential, then you must also do the same for other teams. In fact, since it would seem to be a foregone conclusion that Jags will take Lawrence, then it would stand to reason that Jags will have the best QB in their division for sure. 

You see how that can be construed. There were and still are concerns about how good Greedy is, and Delpit has not played a snap. 

2 hours ago, The Gipper said:

 

This had nothing to do with the rivalry thread. Me saying multiple times (and I am not going to go back and find them), you have attempted (not saying that in a negative way) to do this compare players multiple times each year since Baker has been a Brown. 

Again, you can have your opinion/assessment all you like. And as referenced above, we probably don't disagree on many of them, but the way that I read it (you said it was Tour), is you doing it multiple times. Now maybe it was to dig at you, but that is not how I read it.

As for the last part, I would just assume that most who want to make an assessment in anything (we can use your profession), that they would use the evidence they are presented.

Example, there were SERIOUS questions coming into the season about RG for the Browns. In fact, it wasn't even a sure thing that Teller would be the starter. Now he is considered one of if not the best guard in football. 

So yes, with the potential of the DB in Cleveland is pretty high, but the only evidence we can use is what we currently have seen. Obviously everyone has been highly disappointed with Sendejo. Harrison has been pretty good, but has missed 6 games, and only started 7 out of 17. By talent again, Ward is the 2nd best between the two teams, but he has a hard time staying on the field, and that factors in.

And yes, I get that a bunch of this with Tron is because of the team he is a fan of, and wanting to give it to him.

But I believe that being a loyal fan (for whoever) is believing in your team and players and wanting them. And some of it comes down to fit in a system.