I can't afford health care.

[Pumpkin Eater]

I can't even afford my mortgage and I'll be lucky to make it through school without going into foreclosure.

 

So Obama's solution is to require me to get health insurance. Nice.

 

and what if I don't pay the fine?

 

 

Will I be sent to jail?

 

 

 

UNCONSTITUTIONAL

 

 

[Mr. T]

Listening to Pelosi, is making me nauseated. while she misquotes inalienable rights.

[heckofajobbrownie]

It's certainly not unconstitutional, but if you're as poor as you say, you're probably not going to pay any fines. Because people below a certain income are exempt from fines.

 

And this doesn't kick in until 2014. So you've got four years to make enough money to buy a plan.

 

If you're still in school, perhaps you're under the age of 26. Then you're eligible to stay on your parents' plan and pay no fine.

 

If you do have to pay the fine in 2014, it will most likely be $95.

 

And if you can't find an affordable policy, you won't have to pay a fine either.

 

So I think you're going to be okay. And you're certainly not going to jail.

[Pumpkin Eater]

I think it is unconstitutional to force someone to buy something and fine them if they don't. The government simply cannot do that. It's true we wont have to worry about this for long because it will be overturned because SCOTUS will deem it unconstitutional.

 

 

[Mr. T]

but if you're as poor as you say, you're probably not going to pay any fines. Because people below a certain income are exempt from fines.

 

And you said nobody gets it free. I know its going to cost everyone else to pay for it.

 

 

[heckofajobbrownie]

Right. Because no one gets it for free. If you could read, you would know that what we're talking about means that people who don't meet the income requirement are exempt from fines, not that it means they're exempt from fines and are given free health care insurance.

 

No one gets free health insurance under this plan. They get subsidized insurance if they qualify, based on their income.

 

But if you could read, you'd also understand that you were using a bible quote that meant "I hope the president dies soon and is replaced by someone else."

[heckofajobbrownie]

And Pumpkin, I don't want to make light of your situation, and I sympathize with it. There are lots of people going through what you're going through. Too many, in fact. But judging by the refrains of your party, it's no one's fault but your own that you took on a mortgage without the ability to pay for it, and it's not the president or any other politician's responsibility to clean up after your mistake. And in a lot of cases, it also has the benefit of being true.

 

Ain't that right?

 

If there's something the president could do for someone in your situation, however, it is reform the health care system so that people who don't make a lot of money, or people who are still students or just out of college, or people who have lost their job, or people who have a pre-existing condition can better afford to purchase health insurance and are not subject to digging themselves an even bigger financial hole should they become sick or get in some sort of accident.

 

And they just did that.

 

And again, I don't know your situation, but from the sound of it your fears of punitive fines and possible jail time are unfounded.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I think this "Law" will be ruled unconstitutional and overturned. I urge all citizens to demand it from their elected officials. Don't let Obama force his left wing agenda on us.

[Chicopee John]

I think it is unconstitutional to force someone to buy something and fine them if they don't.

 

 

Do you have Liability insurance on your auto, Pumkin?

 

[calfoxwc]

It's nice that Heck sets himself up as a constitutional lawyer.

 

Meanwhile, Mark Levin and his group of CONSTITUTIONAL LAWYERS claim it

 

is UNCONSTITIONAL.

 

 

More moveonupObaMao'sleg.org talking points.

 

And, gosh, it's ONLY 95 dollars and NOT 100 ? Gosh, that difference sure

makes everything okiedokie now...

 

So, what Heck is saying is, that the indigent, street people don't have to pay the fine,

and don't have to have any health insurance.

 

Apparently the liberal/progressives/marxists/sissies/Democrats don't care if all homeless

die because they don't have health care.

 

And, federally funded abortion is there/not there/maybe there/IS there/will BE THERE, so Democrats

can murder unborn children with federal funds !

 

And when rationing hits, the elderly will be let to suffer natual deaths and continued pain and suffering from the denial of expensive

diagnostic tests and treatments.

 

Emergency care will be only allowed after thousands of pages of red tape can be analyzed, and a group

of Cass Sunstein's decide how much they care to spend the money, depending on who you are.

 

1 out of every five doctors and other medical personal will leave the profession.

 

Go follow the link I posted about Kitty. She lived it, and she sees it happening here.

 

Sounds like the new Nazi's to me.

 

And all the illegal immigrants who won't get health care, well, the Democrats will be happy to let them

suffer and die... until the Dems make them all citizens so they will always easily be manipulated to always vote

Democratic because it is the way they will survive..

 

What an asinine mess. I'm with Mark Levin. This phoney "hc reform" is a long term financial disaster, and is

actually a subcultural war.

 

This garbage will be repealed, I predict.

[Mr. T]

Hey everybody, Obama and the rest of the Liberal Liars are telling everyone to go to th cheese factory and you have to buy cheese regardless if you have money to pay or regardless if you want any cheese.

 

And for granny the meds you take for your cheese allergies, we wont pay them anymore.

 

Pretty much sums it up.

 

Do as I tell you to do. Or you will be fined.

 

Where is the freedom in that statement? There is none, because our politicians are corupt with power and it is time to remove them from office.

 

Im sorry I forgot to send in my papers that show I bought cheese last month.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Do you have Liability insurance on your auto, Pumkin?

 

John it's not the same thing. Driving is a privilege. You can chose not to have insurance and take a bus, walk, whatever. Life insurance is not mandatory. Long Term Care Insurance either.

[Pumpkin Eater]

And you said nobody gets it free. I know its going to cost everyone else to pay for it.

 

 

no, because I still would not be able to get it. My wife has a decent job herself. The thing is, I was making so much money in Civil Engineering and now I am making $275 a week on unemployment. I could easily afford my bill when I was working. We saved money, that's how we are getting by now. I'm not asking for help, I'm asking to NOT to be forced to buy something I cannot afford.

[Pumpkin Eater]

Do you have Liability insurance on your auto, Pumkin?

 

 

Driving is a privilege. If I don't want to buy auto insurance, I can choose not to drive. I don't want to buy health insurance. How could I get out of that one? die?

[Westside Steve]

It's certainly not unconstitutional, but if you're as poor as you say, you're probably not going to pay any fines. Because people below a certain income are exempt from fines.

 

And this doesn't kick in until 2014. So you've got four years to make enough money to buy a plan.

 

If you're still in school, perhaps you're under the age of 26. Then you're eligible to stay on your parents' plan and pay no fine.

 

If you do have to pay the fine in 2014, it will most likely be $95.

 

And if you can't find an affordable policy, you won't have to pay a fine either.

 

So I think you're going to be okay. And you're certainly not going to jail.

 

So hang on til 2014 and you won't have to participate at all.

 

And since any plan will cost more than it does today, that 95 bucks will be a drop in the bucket.

 

But you can be one of the sad stories when they push for single payer!

WSS

[Westside Steve]

Driving is a privilege. If I don't want to buy auto insurance, I can choose not to drive. I don't want to buy health insurance. How could I get out of that one? die?

 

Yes. Or sponge off the system.

Go to the ER.

 

Having professionals take care of you is a privilege, like eating at a restaurant or living in a house.

 

WSS

[Mr. T]

I need more coffee, Is his just a bad dream?

[ballpeen]

Do you have Liability insurance on your auto, Pumkin?

 

 

 

 

Sure....but driving is optional...this isn't.

 

 

Try to follow the bouncing ball.

[Chicopee John]

Sure....but driving is optional...this isn't. Try to follow the bouncing ball.

 

Sure it's optional, 'Peen. On the other hand, how realistic is it that we can get along without private transportation? If it's that easy to use only public transportation, etc., then why don't more people choose that option. It would be A LOT less expensive than owning and driving a car.

 

 

But this is a tangential issue, any way.

 

 

[Kosar_For_President]

Does anyone have a link to cost per person and/or cost per family. Is there a cost break down for a bracket of how much someone makes and how much you have to pay? ANYTHING?

 

There seems to be a big argument here, which I am sure there will be but what is the cost structure?

 

And this "$95" fine, is this per year, etc. The bickering on both sides is funny, no one is really stating the facts.

 

"It's like car insurance" bs. "The country is ruined" bs.

[ballpeen]

But this is a tangential issue, any way.

 

 

 

No disagreement on that. Just a moot comparison.

[Pumpkin Eater]

It's a $695 fine per year. They will actually have the IRS of all agencies checking up on everyone. Big Brother here we come.

[Chicopee John]

Does anyone have a link to cost per person and/or cost per family. Is there a cost break down for a bracket of how much someone makes and how much you have to pay? ANYTHING?

 

I could be wrong here - and Heck can correct me if I am - I'm not sure the final bill has been written. I believe the vote took place on a draft work in process with some details TBD.

 

[Pumpkin Eater]

no, all that is left to do is to reconcile the differences between that House version and the Senate version, then each unit has to re-vote on the reconciled version of the bill. Without any major changes this will pass unless people really get ahold of their representatives and let them know they don't want this.

[heckofajobbrownie]

The bill is basically done. Pumpkin is right. Now they're just going to go over certain fixes, like taking out the "Cornhusker kickback" and the like. Democrats will try to pull it out, Republicans will try to keep it in.

 

They're not really reconciling the bill. They're reconciling what they agreed to reconcile in advance in order for the House to accept the Senate bill as is. Or was.

[osusev]

.......

 

good lord, some of you have gone really far out there....... seriously freedoms taken away? That would be the Patriot acts not overhauling the health care system...

 

The for profit health care companies STILL have anti trust EXEMPTIONS.......... so we are putting some mechanism to oversee costs.......

 

The system does not have a public option/non profit mandate......

 

outlawed some heinous unfair dropping and capping of services.... and these "conservatives" are freaking out about taxes....... well yes unlike the republican/right wing who pushed thru medicare expansion this president and congress is actually attempting to pay for the services...... so shut up you people never were here screaming when you own party piled on tons of debt and care for votes.....

 

This is nowhere really near what is needed but a compromise on a massive scale...... get over it, your hate mongering, outright lies about death panels, using abortion as a issue to further your political agendas along with hating Obama for even being born failed to stop this much needed overhaul........

 

Now the other fear mongering about "government takeover" basically calling dems and the Potus a communist or dictator basically just paints how stupid you are. Not only are those comments GROSSLY inaccurate to reality........ do you not realize you are backing a for profit industry that is both killing people for money AND bankrupting our country? SERIOUSLY you people dont see that? You dont see the obvious obstructionism that Reagan and his party has been doing FOREVER......... they have been doing the EXACT same thing against Social security..... medicare/medicaid. etc

 

I wonder how many of you accepted Pell Grants..... or have a mortgage underwritten and backed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac....... anyone have grandparents who reciever social security and Medicare..... what about Farm subsidies..... or ever recieved unemployment benefits.......... anyone on VA benefits............. ALL are SOCIALIST type programs administered by our government............

 

You just keep screaming about government takeovers......... PEOPLE are DYING over a Anti trust exempt for profit corrupt insurance money management industry............. yet as long as you can selectively choose when you benefit from government based programs for education or home ownership hell the big bad SEC trys to keep your Market investments safe......... its really amazing how people totally ignore the benefits of federally paid and administered highways etc but now are screaming.......

 

Telecommunications and Airlines were broken up and overseen by the big bad federal government....... yet they seem to be operating in the free market just fine and consumers seem to be ok..........

 

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

.......

 

good lord, some of you have gone really far out there....... seriously freedoms taken away? That would be the Patriot acts not overhauling the health care system...

 

The for profit health care companies STILL have anti trust EXEMPTIONS.......... so we are putting some mechanism to oversee costs.......

 

The system does not have a public option/non profit mandate......

 

outlawed some heinous unfair dropping and capping of services.... and these "conservatives" are freaking out about taxes....... well yes unlike the republican/right wing who pushed thru medicare expansion this president and congress is actually attempting to pay for the services...... so shut up you people never were here screaming when you own party piled on tons of debt and care for votes.....

 

This is nowhere really near what is needed but a compromise on a massive scale...... get over it, your hate mongering, outright lies about death panels, using abortion as a issue to further your political agendas along with hating Obama for even being born failed to stop this much needed overhaul........

 

Now the other fear mongering about "government takeover" basically calling dems and the Potus a communist or dictator basically just paints how stupid you are. Not only are those comments GROSSLY inaccurate to reality........ do you not realize you are backing a for profit industry that is both killing people for money AND bankrupting our country? SERIOUSLY you people dont see that? You dont see the obvious obstructionism that Reagan and his party has been doing FOREVER......... they have been doing the EXACT same thing against Social security..... medicare/medicaid. etc

 

I wonder how many of you accepted Pell Grants..... or have a mortgage underwritten and backed by Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac....... anyone have grandparents who reciever social security and Medicare..... what about Farm subsidies..... or ever recieved unemployment benefits.......... anyone on VA benefits............. ALL are SOCIALIST type programs administered by our government............

 

You just keep screaming about government takeovers......... PEOPLE are DYING over a Anti trust exempt for profit corrupt insurance money management industry............. yet as long as you can selectively choose when you benefit from government based programs for education or home ownership hell the big bad SEC trys to keep your Market investments safe......... its really amazing how people totally ignore the benefits of federally paid and administered highways etc but now are screaming.......

 

Telecommunications and Airlines were broken up and overseen by the big bad federal government....... yet they seem to be operating in the free market just fine and consumers seem to be ok..........

 

 

another senseless rant.

[calfoxwc]

Sev, people are DYING WAITING FOR DESPERATELY NEEDED DIAGNOSTIC AND SURGICAL

 

PRODURES WHILE WAITING MONTHS FOR IT TO HAPPEN.

 

don't dispute it. You'll lose.

[Kosar_For_President]

I am being objective and trying to read as much as possible here. This is a comment from a Canadian:

 

Number Seven: "Free" Health Care Empowers the Poor

 

Everything I want to say about this is summed up in a story that happened to my partner Shelley. Shelley and I are partners in a restaurant, and she actually runs it. She was given an appointment at the hospital for a procedure, and she duly showed up at the appointed time. Two hours later she was still sitting there waiting to be called. Now she was only able to get a two-hour parking meter, and so she approached the desk and asked if she could go and put money in the meter. She was curtly told that she was free to go and put the money in, but that if her name were called while she was away, that her name would fall back to the bottom of the queue. So she just decided that she would take the parking ticket as part of the price of getting the medical service she needed. Another two hours passed, and still she was not called, so she again approached the counter, and very patiently and politely explained (as only Shelley can, because she is the soul of graciousness) that she actually had a small business to run; that she was there at the appointed time for her appointment; that she had waited four hours, which is far longer than she had been led to expect the whole thing would take; that she had other commitments because of the business; and could they possibly at least give her some idea of how much longer she might have to wait?

 

Well, the woman behind the counter got on her dignity, drew herself up to her full height, glared at Shelley and said, "You're talking as if you're some kind of customer!"

 

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen, the essence of the problem: When the government supplies you with "free" health care, you are not a powerful customer who must be satisfied. They are doing you a favor and you owe the state gratitude and servility in return for this awesome generosity. They can give you the worst service in the world, but because it is free, you are totally disempowered. One of the most important lessons I have learned from my contact with the Canadian Medicare system is that payment makes you powerful. And its absence makes you risible if not invisible.

 

The point in bold is actually a good point. I know the new health care is not free, but with no competition this could be an issue. On the other hand was competition creating the rise in cost?

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I am being objective and trying to read as much as possible here. This is a comment from a Canadian:

 

Number Seven: "Free" Health Care Empowers the Poor

 

Everything I want to say about this is summed up in a story that happened to my partner Shelley. Shelley and I are partners in a restaurant, and she actually runs it. She was given an appointment at the hospital for a procedure, and she duly showed up at the appointed time. Two hours later she was still sitting there waiting to be called. Now she was only able to get a two-hour parking meter, and so she approached the desk and asked if she could go and put money in the meter. She was curtly told that she was free to go and put the money in, but that if her name were called while she was away, that her name would fall back to the bottom of the queue. So she just decided that she would take the parking ticket as part of the price of getting the medical service she needed. Another two hours passed, and still she was not called, so she again approached the counter, and very patiently and politely explained (as only Shelley can, because she is the soul of graciousness) that she actually had a small business to run; that she was there at the appointed time for her appointment; that she had waited four hours, which is far longer than she had been led to expect the whole thing would take; that she had other commitments because of the business; and could they possibly at least give her some idea of how much longer she might have to wait?

 

Well, the woman behind the counter got on her dignity, drew herself up to her full height, glared at Shelley and said, "You're talking as if you're some kind of customer!"

 

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen, the essence of the problem: When the government supplies you with "free" health care, you are not a powerful customer who must be satisfied. They are doing you a favor and you owe the state gratitude and servility in return for this awesome generosity. They can give you the worst service in the world, but because it is free, you are totally disempowered. One of the most important lessons I have learned from my contact with the Canadian Medicare system is that payment makes you powerful. And its absence makes you risible if not invisible.

 

The point in bold is actually a good point. I know the new health care is not free, but with no competition this could be an issue. On the other hand was competition creating the rise in cost?

 

 

When I worked at the VA I witnessed patients being treated the same way by the slug VA employee's. Usually it is the lower level employees who treat people like this (clerks, etc). However, on one occasion I overheard the Chief of Staff of Wade park refer to veterans as "trash". Mind you, he is an MD (pulmonologist). That is why I never use the VA for treatment.