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Disagreeing with Heil Obama is sedition?


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Time’s Klein: Beck, Palin Potentially Committing Sedition against U.S. Government; Heilemann Adds Limbaugh

By Jeff Poor (Bio | Archive)

Sun, 04/18/2010 - 19:29 ET

 

Liberals are all too often eager to charge conservative personalities of using hyperbole to gain a political advantage, especially when it contradicts their world view - whether it's suggesting the Obama administration is taking the country down the path of socialism, fascism or any other -ism.

 

However, it could be argued there's a different set of standards for those same people when they want to make strong charges. On NBC's April 18 "The Chris Matthews Show," Time columnist Joe Klein all but accused former GOP vice-presidential nominee and Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, along with Fox News host Glenn Beck of sedition.

 

"I did a little bit of research just before this show - it's on this little napkin here. I looked up the definition of sedition which is conduct or language inciting rebellion against the authority of the state. And a lot of these statements, especially the ones coming from people like Glenn Beck and to a certain extent Sarah Palin, rub right up close to being seditious."

 

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As Klein pointed out, the legal definition of sedition is "a revolt or an incitement to revolt against established authority." And, sedition has been declared a felony in Supreme Court opinions, thus making Klein's national television accusation a fairly serious one, one of which New York magazine's John Heilemann agreed with. However, Heilemann added conservative talker Rush Limbaugh to that list.

 

"And Joe's right and I'll name another person, I'll name Rush Limbaugh who uses this phrase constantly and talks about the Obama administration as a regime," Heilemann said. "That phrase which has connotations of tyranny. And what's so interesting about it to me, to get to Norah's point - what is the focus, what is the cause of this? You think back to 1994, there was Ruby Ridge. There was Waco. There were triggering incidents. There's been nothing like that. The only thing that's changed in the last 15 months is the election of Barack Obama. And as far as I can see, in terms of the policies that Obama has implemented, there's nothing."

 

Heilemann also suggested that the alleged up tick in militia activity is a result of the Obama presidency. Klein said it was not only the Obama presidency, but that he was "African-American," and had "Hussein" as a middle name, along with the "scary" economic crisis.

 

"Two are two things going on here and one thing is certainly that," Klein said. "One thing is he is African-American, but that his name is Barack Hussein Obama. The other we've had a very scary economic crisis. And when people get scared, they get defensive and they get a little crazy."

 

 

 

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/201...r#ixzz0lVafzKG6

 

 

 

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Cal, please. They're not saying that disagreeing with Obama is sedition. Words have meaning. Look them up if you're unsure.

 

 

Correct.

In the Hectionary it says that it's only sedition if you actually voice those disagreements in public.

Until then it's only thoughtcrime.

 

BTW when Obama is out of office and the other party in and the real hate speech kicks in it will be called "patriotism."

(as in "how dare you question my...)

 

WSS

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Wow. A little testy this morning, I suppose.

 

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what Klein is saying. I'm simply making the point that Cal is completely mischaracterizing what these people are saying.

 

This isn't about disagreeing with the president. It's not about hate speech, or thought crimes.

 

 

Uh if it's not about the Klein article and it's not about hate speech or thought crime or freedom 'O speech it must be.......

.......yep!

An opportunity to use the "you're crabby" retort three times in a row.

A hat trick!!

 

WSS

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Delightful.

 

Cal: Klein is saying that disagreeing with Obama is sedition.

 

Me: No, he isn't. He's saying that some of the things Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin say get close to the dictionary definition of sedition.

 

Steve: Heck is saying it's sedition! Unless you don't say it, then it's a thought crime! Unless Obama isn't in office and then it's patriotism!

 

Me: Um, no. I'm not saying I agree with what Klein is saying. I'm saying Cal is mischaracterizing what he's saying, and now you're mischaracterizing what I'm saying.

 

Steve: You are! You are saying you agree that it's sedition!

 

 

Let's do this all day. It'll be so much fun.

 

 

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We're all glad you twist and shout about defending the Obamao regime.

 

However, he talks about Rush. So, Rush simply disagrees with Obamao, and thinks he is

 

behaving in a "regime" manner.

 

Obamao doesn't like that.

 

Liberal Socialists don't like that.

 

So, Rush/Palin say anything they don't like = "kinda like sedition"

 

Well, I think Obamao's takeover of nearly most of the country... is Chavez like.

 

So there. Compare that to sedition if you must. But, so far, it is STILL A FREE COUNTRY.

 

BTW, no "kinda likey sedition" in any of "Rev" Wrights comments? No "kinda like" sedition in Bill Ayer's and

Bernadette Dorn's actions?

 

Yeah, I thought so. You don't agree. Free speech is only VALID when it's in favor of the Obamao-REGIME.

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Whatever happened to "Freedom of Speech"?

 

It is true that if you say anything about the current "Obama regime" that you will be attacked and labeled by left wing crackheads.

 

Just look at hecks replies to most of the posts on this forum.

 

Damn it feels good to be a gangsta. lol! When you can get to an I dont give crap attitude on what the Obama worshippers are saying in response to having the Truth told. Then you are exercising that first amendment right.

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Delightful.

 

Cal: Klein is saying that disagreeing with Obama is sedition.

 

Me: No, he isn't. He's saying that some of the things Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin say get close to the dictionary definition of sedition.

 

Steve: Heck is saying it's sedition! Unless you don't say it, then it's a thought crime! Unless Obama isn't in office and then it's patriotism!

 

Me: Um, no. I'm not saying I agree with what Klein is saying. I'm saying Cal is mischaracterizing what he's saying, and now you're mischaracterizing what I'm saying.

 

Steve: You are! You are saying you agree that it's sedition!

 

 

Let's do this all day. It'll be so much fun.

 

Actually what we can do all day is this.

 

You play a silly word game and I'll keep saying that it's a ridiculous position to take.

(then you'll say hahahaha you're grumpy or something equally sappy)

 

While President Clinton gets an on air blowjob on This Week, the bitter left (including you Heck) gets on its high horse about civil disagreements and the danger of demonizing one's opponent.

 

Then you guys proceed to label the oppositions to traitors, enemies of the state and klansmen.

 

And so "close to the dictionary definition" makes it cool?

 

OK Heck.

So when someone says "Obama's actiions are close to the dictionary definition" of Socialism or the Nazi party, it's all good.

I mean nobody called him one....

 

WSS

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Why, Heck ?

 

You never look up the words the rest of US use.

 

You just decide on the definations and go "Ha Ha",

 

and smugly resume sipping your Obamao koolaid. @@

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Actually what we can do all day is this.

 

You play a silly word game and I'll keep saying that it's a ridiculous position to take.

(then you'll say hahahaha you're grumpy or something equally sappy)

 

While President Clinton gets an on air blowjob on This Week, the bitter left (including you Heck) gets on its high horse about civil disagreements and the danger of demonizing one's opponent.

 

Then you guys proceed to label the oppositions to traitors, enemies of the state and klansmen.

 

And so "close to the dictionary definition" makes it cool?

 

OK Heck.

So when someone says "Obama's actiions are close to the dictionary definition" of Socialism or the Nazi party, it's all good.

I mean nobody called him one....

 

WSS

 

Yes, Steve, it'd be okay to say that if Obama's actions were close to the dictionary definition of socialism or the Nazi Party. That's the whole point.

 

Is Klein correct? Are these things close to the definition of sedition? In my opinion, not really.

 

Are many of the tea baggers or Glenn Beck correct, in that what Obama is doing is bringing socialism to our shores and leading us to fascism, and that he's already "done many of the things that Hitler did"?

 

No, that's a ridiculous thing to say. It's takes a level of cluelessness and partisanship known only to a precious few.

 

As for what Clinton said, he's talking about creating an atmosphere where some loon is going to take it too far and do something stupid and violent. Some people already have.

 

Are there people who are guilty of creating this type of environment with their completely irresponsible and barely informed rhetoric? Abso-f'ing-lutely.

 

If we get through these next few years without an incident of some sort, I'll be stunned.

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Yes, Steve, it'd be okay to say that if Obama's actions were close to the dictionary definition of socialism or the Nazi Party. That's the whole point.

 

Is Klein correct? Are these things close to the definition of sedition? In my opinion, not really.

 

Me neither.

But that's the party line, trotted out by the ex pres.

 

Are many of the tea baggers or Glenn Beck correct, in that what Obama is doing is bringing socialism to our shores

 

Yes. But Sharpton is correct. People want it even thopugh they bitch.

 

and leading us to fascism, and that he's already "done many of the things that Hitler did"?

 

For the record, Heck (and I must not have seen that episode) what "things" were mentioned and which are innacurate.

 

No, that's a ridiculous thing to say. It's takes a level of cluelessness and partisanship known only to a precious few.

 

Like comparing Tea Baggers to klansmen? Vigilantes? McVeigh?

Hey who do we hate worse than klansmen.

 

As for what Clinton said, he's talking about creating an atmosphere where some loon is going to take it too far and do something stupid and violent. Some people already have.

Are there people who are guilty of creating this type of environment with their completely irresponsible and barely informed rhetoric? Abso-f'ing-lutely.

 

Yeah I just saw a peaceful exchange of ideas up at Syracuse with the Chase CEO.

 

If we get through these next few years without an incident of some sort, I'll be stunned.

 

 

 

An incident?

 

YOu guys can only hope.

WSS

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They are waiting for an incident. just as long as they dont make it up like the spitting name calling LIES they told back in march before they passed the commie-care law.

 

 

I'm not a fan of Hannity but I did hear a litany of threats hate and all aorund hatespeech left on his answering machine.

 

 

Let me ask you an honest question Heck.

What are the odds, in your view, that Hannity and/or his publicity staff would fake an "incident" for rating purposes?

 

WSS

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I wouldn't think he'd do that. But I can't imagine what point this is going to lead to. I can imagine that it's going to be useless.

 

And trust me, getting hateful messages online or on your machine isn't all that unique to Sean Hannity. I get a hate email sent to me about every week. Hell, I got one of those "unidentified substance" letter once telling me to repent or go to hell. Anyone who has taken a public position on anything, or ever worked for someone who has, gets this type of mail.

 

But see, there you go again. What Klein said and what Clinton said are too different things. And yet you can't tell these two things apart.

 

Honestly, what is the matter with you? Can we get through a single discussion without you failing the grown-up discussion test? This is what children do.

 

Steve, really. I can't do this anymore. It's such a waste of time.

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What Klein said and what Clinton said are too different things. Heck

*****************************************

It's a waste of time to read your childish mis-spelled personal insult rants.

 

You meant the word "TWO", correct? Or, are you "TOO" very childish ?

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I wouldn't think he'd do that. But I can't imagine what point this is going to lead to. I can imagine that it's going to be useless.

 

And trust me, getting hateful messages online or on your machine isn't all that unique to Sean Hannity. I get a hate email sent to me about every week. Hell, I got one of those "unidentified substance" letter once telling me to repent or go to hell. Anyone who has taken a public position on anything, or ever worked for someone who has, gets this type of mail.

 

But see, there you go again. What Klein said and what Clinton said are too different things. And yet you can't tell these two things apart.

 

Honestly, what is the matter with you? Can we get through a single discussion without you failing the grown-up discussion test? This is what children do.

 

Steve, really. I can't do this anymore. It's such a waste of time.

 

It is Heck.

 

But that's because you'd rather resort to your petty insults than tell me why it's proper to compare those who take issue with Obama to terroriosts and klansmen.

 

I asked you point blank what Beck specifically said comparing Obamas actions to Hitlers that were patently false.

That's what a "grown up" would have done.

 

I assume you never saw the show, I know I didn't.

 

But I'm sure Olbermann has a list you can cut and paste.

 

 

 

BTW I just read a pretty dull and way too long article comparing todays political climate to the Third Reich.

Beck??? Drudge???

No, Heck, our old pal Noam Chomsky.

Your guys usually speak his name like Randolph Scott in BLAZING SADDLES.

WSS

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And here's why this is a waste of time. Here's what I wrote:

 

"Are many of the tea baggers or Glenn Beck correct, in that what Obama is doing is bringing socialism to our shores and leading us to fascism, and that he's already "done many of the things that Hitler did"?

 

That's not a quote of Glenn Beck. You should be able to see that. Maybe if you read those books instead of listened to them on tape you'd know when I'm quoting someone directly, or when I'm using a generic quote of something people say all the time, even on this board.

 

And then you get to launch into some gotcha about that thing where you didn't get me in the first place because you don't know how quotations work, and get to suggest I'm the idiot, and then I have to waste my day explaining how quotes work to a grown man.

 

If you want to know where that quote comes from, it's from that Harris poll we were just talking about a couple weeks ago, where 38% of Republicans agree with this statement: "President Obama is doing many things Hitler did."

 

...Understand now? Feel stupid? Sorry? I doubt it. Well, you should.

 

Instead, I'm sure you'll still insist you were right, or change the subject. Something, something "your buddy" Noah Chomsky/Cindy Sheehan. Something, something, "Obama's buddy" Louis Farrakhan/Al Sharpton. Delightful.

 

You simply can't get through a single sentence without mischaracterizing what I say, or what anyone else on the left says, this being a perfect example: "...tell me why it's proper to compare those who take issue with Obama to terroriosts and klansmen." Yes, that's no better or smarter than what Cal wrote in the headline of this thread. Congratulations.

 

Or let's put it this way: None of the stuff you write impresses me, or Alo, or Tupa, or guys like Dennis, who all fled this board (because they're not masochists like I am) for a normal, adult discussion, where you don't have to spend part of your work day explaining things like how quotes work. And we have those discussions just about every day, whether or the new board or through private messages and emails.

 

However, what you write does impress T, Cal, and Diehard.

 

So have fun being king of the shitheads/lunatics.

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Heck we know that you have already excepted socialism and where your beliefs are.

 

But whatever happened to the land of opportunity? as a country in whole it is nice to be able to take care of those who cannot take care of themselves. But your party wants to dictate over almost every aspect of living. Anything from how much water can go into a toilet to mandating all have to buy a product. When is enough, enough with your party?

 

You can pat yourself on the back, and you do. But you always seem to skirt around answering questions and when you do give an answer it is opinion based. Which is what you accuse others on here of doing. Where are your facts? Where is your source of information? ?Who gives you your marching orders, or are you so compelled that you must share your opinion and love of a socialized government that you respond in the way that you do.

 

If you want to take the temp. of Americans, they are disgusted with your form of government and want a real change. not a dictatorship form of government that you promote.

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And here's why this is a waste of time. Here's what I wrote:

 

"Are many of the tea baggers or Glenn Beck correct, in that what Obama is doing is bringing socialism to our shores and leading us to fascism, and that he's already "done many of the things that Hitler did"?

 

That's not a quote of Glenn Beck. You should be able to see that. Maybe if you read those books instead of listened to them on tape you'd know when I'm quoting someone directly, or when I'm using a generic quote of something people say all the time, even on this board.

 

And then you get to launch into some gotcha about that thing where you didn't get me in the first place because you don't know how quotations work, and get to suggest I'm the idiot, and then I have to waste my day explaining how quotes work to a grown man.

 

If you want to know where that quote comes from, it's from that Harris poll we were just talking about a couple weeks ago, where 38% of Republicans agree with this statement: "President Obama is doing many things Hitler did."

 

...Understand now? Feel stupid? Sorry? I doubt it. Well, you should.

 

Instead, I'm sure you'll still insist you were right, or change the subject. Something, something "your buddy" Noah Chomsky/Cindy Sheehan. Something, something, "Obama's buddy" Louis Farrakhan/Al Sharpton. Delightful.

 

You simply can't get through a single sentence without mischaracterizing what I say, or what anyone else on the left says, this being a perfect example: "...tell me why it's proper to compare those who take issue with Obama to terroriosts and klansmen." Yes, that's no better or smarter than what Cal wrote in the headline of this thread. Congratulations.

 

Or let's put it this way: None of the stuff you write impresses me, or Alo, or Tupa, or guys like Dennis, who all fled this board (because they're not masochists like I am) for a normal, adult discussion, where you don't have to spend part of your work day explaining things like how quotes work. And we have those discussions just about every day, whether or the new board or through private messages and emails.

 

However, what you write does impress T, Cal, and Diehard.

 

So have fun being king of the shitheads/lunatics.

 

And after this infantile rant, Heck the wise and powerful refuses to answer.

Yeah, Heck.

Somebody oughta feel stupid.

 

WSS

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Also:

 

Once again we hear the bragging about your personal private forum.

Good for you Heck. I'm sure it's fascinating.

I realize you want to hurt my (or somebody's) feelings that I'm not welcome at your party.

Maybe you've heard the Irish tune that says "and them that don't like me can leave me alone."

 

I know that since Toop and you are on the Global Warming bandwagon you overlook his "ignorant superstitious" beliefs.

Good for you Heck.

He's the "house Christian."

 

Whatever motivates you in your little jihad against your enemies list let me be clear that I'm not going to kiss your ass NOR will I rail at the president if I think the criticism is unfair or meaningless.

Sure your insults are childish and petty but hey, I'm no angel myself.

 

You can choose to paint anyone you want as seditionists traitors racists klansmen or whatever stereotypes that stir up hate in your ranks.

If that's how you feel and it includes me then feel free (in the words of Democrat spokesperson Jon Stewart) to go f*ck yourself.

 

Nobody is so stupid as to mistake your spin, nobody thinks you're an idiot but nobody buys the snowjob that you're just a weary arbiter of justice.

 

If I didn't like ya I wouldnt' talk to ya.

And that's an equal opportunity stance.

 

WSS

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Once again, thanks for mischaracterizing my beliefs. Nothing I enjoy more than having to start every post with, "No, Steve..." and "That's not what I said, Steve..." or simply, "Huh?"

 

Never gets old.

 

As for what I'm not answering, I thought you wanted me to show you where Beck said that thing I didn't say he said, and so I showed you how what I said didn't say what you thought it said, and then showed you what it actually meant. I even showed how the actual quote was exactly like the one I typed off the top of my head. You know, because people say it far too often, including in here, and it's so stupid it has a way of sticking in your head.

 

What else would you like me to waste my time with? Do you want to pretend that I think, or have said, that everyone who disagrees with Obama is a Klansman or guilty of sedition? Because that's fun too.

 

How about you can disagree with Cal that what Klein is saying - even if you disagree with it - isn't that disagreeing with Obama is sedition. It's that he thinks the statements of specific people run up close to the definition of sedition.

 

I know, I know. Never argue with a fan, right?

 

 

 

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Here's what I wrote:

 

"Are many of the tea baggers or Glenn Beck correct, in that what Obama is doing is bringing socialism to our shores and leading us to fascism, and that he's already "done many of the things that Hitler did"?

 

So I asked you to clarify what those things were that you put in quotation marks.

 

If you now say that the tea baggers nor Beck ever made such statements, why ask if they are correct?

 

You can still list those "many things that Hitler did" and tell me if Obama has done similar things or show me he has not.

 

Simple enough.

Or continue to sputter and fume.

 

Just the list would waste a lot less time.

 

WSS

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Are you f'ing kidding me?

 

First of all, you still don't get what the quote is about, or who I'm attributing it to.

 

38% of Republicans agree with the statement that Obama has already done many of the things Hitler did, and now it's my job to list all the things Obama is doing, and why they're not like what Hitler did?

 

Is that what you're asking me to do?

 

Hahaha. Are you serious?

 

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Are you f'ing kidding me?

 

First of all, you still don't get what the quote is about, or who I'm attributing it to.

 

38% of Republicans agree with the statement that Obama has already done many of the things Hitler did, and now it's my job to list all the things Obama is doing, and why they're not like what Hitler did?

 

Is that what you're asking me to do?

 

Hahaha. Are you serious?

 

I guess not.

I suppose if that pisses you off you'd know what exactly you're poissed off about.

And if you mentioned Beck specifically you may have known what evil he'd committed.

But did I "seriously" expect you to have a valid gripe and defend it?

 

Nah.

WSS

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I don't know what to say. There are dozens of clips of Beck claiming what I just said he claimed - that Obama is taking us down the road to socialism and fascism. That's his whole act! He rolls video of Nazi Germany behind him and suggests that people need to do something to stop it. This is the nonsense I'm referring to. And it's clear to anyone who can read. That's the kind of stuff "I'm pissed about." And yet here you are, claiming you can't imagine what I'm talking about, and that I need to defend something I've alleged, even though anyone who has ever glimpsed a second of Beck's program would know that he does say these things. And then I have to waste time telling you what those things are. Even though it's in the two-line quote you already read, re-posted, and read again.

 

There's also a poll that I quoted word for word saying that 38% of Republicans think Obama has done some of the things that Hitler did.

 

And what game are we going to play now -- are you going to claim that what these people really mean is the innocuous stuff that Hitler did? You know, because that's why people use the Hitler comparison. Because they both raised taxes or something?

 

How dense this is. How unbelievably dense.

 

What things that Hitler did are you talking about? Why would anyone compare what's happened in this country over the last 16 months to what Hitler did?

 

Are we done laughing you out of the bar yet?

 

I can't even understand what part of this you don't get. You're asking me to defend a statement of self-evident fact, and then the results of a poll we talked about just days ago.

 

It's like you're asking me to defend that a volcano in Iceland erupted and that air travel was disrupted, and that Obama's approval rating is at 48% in a Gallup poll.

 

Do you realize how stupid this is?

 

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Heck, do you realize how stupid it is for you to deny it?

 

You think there is absolutely no resemblance of Hitlers words and actions and ideas and plans...

 

to those of Hitler?

 

http://fredshelm.wordpress.com/category/hitler/

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I don't know what to say. There are dozens of clips of Beck claiming what I just said he claimed - that Obama is taking us down the road to socialism and fascism. That's his whole act! He rolls video of Nazi Germany behind him and suggests that people need to do something to stop it. This is the nonsense I'm referring to. And it's clear to anyone who can read. That's the kind of stuff "I'm pissed about." And yet here you are, claiming you can't imagine what I'm talking about, and that I need to defend something I've alleged, even though anyone who has ever glimpsed a second of Beck's program would know that he does say these things. And then I have to waste time telling you what those things are. Even though it's in the two-line quote you already read, re-posted, and read again.

 

There's also a poll that I quoted word for word saying that 38% of Republicans think Obama has done some of the things that Hitler did.

 

And what game are we going to play now -- are you going to claim that what these people really mean is the innocuous stuff that Hitler did? You know, because that's why people use the Hitler comparison. Because they both raised taxes or something?

 

How dense this is. How unbelievably dense.

 

What things that Hitler did are you talking about? Why would anyone compare what's happened in this country over the last 16 months to what Hitler did?

 

Are we done laughing you out of the bar yet?

 

I can't even understand what part of this you don't get. You're asking me to defend a statement of self-evident fact, and then the results of a poll we talked about just days ago.

 

It's like you're asking me to defend that a volcano in Iceland erupted and that air travel was disrupted, and that Obama's approval rating is at 48% in a Gallup poll.

 

Do you realize how stupid this is?

 

 

I really do Heck.

I realize you're getting too angry to think straight.

That's when your posts break down to this.

 

 

Like I said I never saw the Beck show (or shows) that enraged you.

I asked you to tell me what actions he used as examples of things Obama had done.

I'm guessing you didn't either, or you saw something on MSNBC

 

I mean I've heard guys call him a socialist.

So if you want I'll admit that it might be slightly more accurate to just say that his actions "are close to the dictionary definition of Socialism."

If that makes you happy then good. Savor your big win.

But as for the rest, I just wanted you to give some examples as you seem to know a lot about it.

 

But no, I don't think Obama wants to invade Poland.

 

WSS

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