HaydenFox Posted April 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 I should alter my terminology or at least my proposed definition of Franchise QB. Franchise QB's that have proven they can win the big game when the game is placed squarely on their shoulders. Yes I would consider Flacco a franchise QB, Palmer even though he can't muster a win when it matters most. You then have Matt Ryan, Rodgers etc. Yes I agree but there are only 4 QB's in the league currently with the hardware and the undeniable ability to win football games. As far as his value is considered no team in the NFL would be "taking a chance" by trading for Big Ben. He's not Pacman Jones or Micheal Vick. He can't keep his dick in his pants, all of which should all be corrected at this point considered the no doubt unexpected backlash. Teams want to say his value has decreased dramatically so they can rob him from the Steelers. The fact of the matter is this, the Rooney's aren't going to unload him for just a top 10 pick this year. They are fully aware that he's worth much more and a already went on the record in saying that he deserves a second chance and he's going to work to prove he deserves that chance. It was said in both Art Sr. and Art Jr's press conferences. He's not going anywhere. The Steelers are just putting the feelers out for a Hershel Walker esque trade, one that likely won't arrive. The end. Im somewhat with you on the franchise qb deal now. Ben is definately a top qb in the league but i dont think there is a drastic difference between him and rodgers and other guys kind of in that same class that arent named brees, manning, and brady. I think the talent around him is what has helped him win those big games not that hes anymore valuable than the rest of the quality franchise tag QB's. He would be a chance. Obviously not by his physical attributes and what he does on the field but by his poor decisions and issues off the field he is a chance. If it was just one bad decision it would be one thing but now we are starting to see a history of bad decisions which means he hasnt learned from his mistakes yet. If you give up a lot for him then he gets caught again in another bad situation hes looking at big time trouble with mr. goodell. I too find it hard to see him in another uniform but it sounds more and more like there is more than just smoke to these trade talks. They are actively shopping him and they arent asking for the farm from what reports are. Just a pick in the top 10 will do from what is being confirmed. Now if they can get two teams in a bidding war then maybe but that is unlikely going to happen for a guy who is skating on very thin ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 . Teams want to say his value has decreased dramatically so they can rob him from the Steelers. Bingo!! HALLELUJAH. Pass the Tylenol. Now you are starting to get it. Exactly, there are 31 other teams that would want to phuck and rob the steelers. The fact of the matter is this, the Rooney's aren't going to unload him for just a top 10 pick this year. They are fully aware that he's worth much more and a already went on the record in saying that he deserves a second chance and he's going to work to prove he deserves that chance. It was said in both Art Sr. and Art Jr's press conferences. He's not going anywhere. The Steelers are just putting the feelers out for a Hershel Walker esque trade, one that likely won't arrive. The end. Maybe you are right. Maybe the Rooney's may want to try to dump their garbage and get gold in return. Can't blame them for trying. However, "worth" is a Fair Market Value matter. You are wanting Beverly Hills price for Compton quality. The rest of the people around the league are not as dumb as you think. (i.e. they are not "Steeler Fan Stupid") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Im somewhat with you on the franchise qb deal now. Ben is definately a top qb in the league but i dont think there is a drastic difference between him and rodgers and other guys kind of in that same class that arent named brees, manning, and brady. I think the talent around him is what has helped him win those big games not that hes anymore valuable than the rest of the quality franchise tag QB's. He would be a chance. Obviously not by his physical attributes and what he does on the field but by his poor decisions and issues off the field he is a chance. If it was just one bad decision it would be one thing but now we are starting to see a history of bad decisions which means he hasnt learned from his mistakes yet. If you give up a lot for him then he gets caught again in another bad situation hes looking at big time trouble with mr. goodell. I too find it hard to see him in another uniform but it sounds more and more like there is more than just smoke to these trade talks. They are actively shopping him and they arent asking for the farm from what reports are. Just a pick in the top 10 will do from what is being confirmed. Now if they can get two teams in a bidding war then maybe but that is unlikely going to happen for a guy who is skating on very thin ice. I don't disagree. He's one issue away from completely tanking but this scenario is a scared straight situation. He'll be walking the line the rest of his career and if for some reason he doesn't you can be rest assured he and Santonio will have shared a similar fate. As far as the other "franchise QB's are concerned I do believe he's a cut above. Aaron Rodgers is the closest to the group of "elite" because he too extends plays and wins games. I'd also place a good bit of credence on the "smoke screen" approach because that's all it is...they are putting the feelers out and accepting calls. I'm still not sure why schefter is reporting the Steelers are contacting teams because Ed Bouchette claims he was Steeler HQ and it was the other teams contacting the Steelers. The man isn't going anywhere. He'll serve his 4 and hopefully come back a better QB and person. He's losing something close to 3 million dollars. Someone on my Steelers board posted a quick breakdown just to put it in to perspective for people and just how some take complete advantage of the blessings they are given. If you make 50k a year it would take you 86 years to make 3 million dollars. If you make 400k it would take you 7.5 to make that much..i'm assuming taxes etc is involved. Big Ben is going to lose that much in a month and a half. Pretty crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Schefter reports on Espn that Pittsburgh is trying to trade benny boy for a top 10 first round pick now. Says that if they can get a top ten pick he will more than likely be shipped out. Very very interesting. Alright so on my primary board someone posted something from someone that used to be a regular on the old Tribune review message board. The regular in question has close ties to the higher ups in the front office and plays golf with both players and coaches. I was unaware of all of this until now, I guess he used to play for the Steelers and the Bears in the 80's as a offensive lineman. Anyway SUPPOSEDLY there are a few offers on the table for Ben and they are substantial. Once again all RUMORS but still from a league insider. The Cardinals have offered their 1st, 2nd, 3rd this year and a first next year The Seahawks have offered their 2 firsts this year and their first next year. ONCE AGAIN FOR THOSE THAT CHOOSE TO NOT READ, RUMORS but also Rumors from a league insider. A guy that has provided SOLID, SPOT ON info in the past. I guess in my limited time on that board I didn't realize he was so connected. The Trib closed down the board because the traffic was through the roof and it was slowing down their entire site. My current board is the off-shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Schefter reports on Espn that Pittsburgh is trying to trade benny boy for a top 10 first round pick now. Says that if they can get a top ten pick he will more than likely be shipped out. Very very interesting. AND I still think making either trade if there is some truth would still set the Steelers back 3 or 4 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Alright so on my primary board someone posted something from someone that used to be a regular on the old Tribune review message board. The regular in question has close ties to the higher ups in the front office and plays golf with both players and coaches. I was unaware of all of this until now, I guess he used to play for the Steelers and the Bears in the 80's as a offensive lineman. Anyway SUPPOSEDLY there are a few offers on the table for Ben and they are substantial. Once again all RUMORS but still from a league insider. The Cardinals have offered their 1st, 2nd, 3rd this year and a first next year The Seahawks have offered their 2 firsts this year and their first next year. ONCE AGAIN FOR THOSE THAT CHOOSE TO NOT READ, RUMORS but also Rumors from a league insider. A guy that has provided SOLID, SPOT ON info in the past. I guess in my limited time on that board I didn't realize he was so connected. The Trib closed down the board because the traffic was through the roof and it was slowing down their entire site. My current board is the off-shoot. If they can get that deal the Steelers should jump on it like BR on a coed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgpound3 Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 AND I still think making either trade if there is some truth would still set the Steelers back 3 or 4 seasons. True, but at least they can build up the defense back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgTracker Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 I'm done with the browns if they go after a rapist. I'd probably be done with pro football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
next2nothing Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 I'm done with the browns if they go after a rapist. I'd probably be done with pro football I don't think any of the teams in the top 10 have went after Roethlisberger. The Steelers have reportedly reached out to all the teams picking in the top ten and the Rams and Bills are the only two that said no. I don't think the Browns are interested and I agree with you, no matter how good he is and what he's done in his career, I don't want a guy with that image on my team. Plus, I don't think the Steelers will trade within the AFC North even if we were interested. According to La Canfora, the Raiders are the only "real" option at this point. Raiders enter the Big Ben picture Posted by Mike Florio on April 21, 2010 3:36 PM ET Not long ago, there was a belief that the Steelers hadn't ruled out a trade of quarterback Ben Roethlisberger in order to scare him regarding the possibility of being traded to Oakland. Now, he may have good reason to be afraid. Jason La Canfora of NFL Network reports that the Steelers have been in contact with the Raiders regarding a possible trade, and that Oakland "[m]ight be [the] only real option." The Steelers apparently want a top-ten pick for Roethlisberger. If the Raiders won't send the eighth overall selection to Pittsburgh, the next question becomes whether the Steelers would begin to consider taking pick 11, 12, or 13. The 49ers hold the 13th pick, and Roethlisberger grew up rooting for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 I don't think any of the teams in the top 10 have went after Roethlisberger. The Steelers have reportedly reached out to all the teams picking in the top ten and the Rams and Bills are the only two that said no. I don't think the Browns are interested and I agree with you, no matter how good he is and what he's done in his career, I don't want a guy with that image on my team. Plus, I don't think the Steelers will trade within the AFC North even if we were interested. According to La Canfora, the Raiders are the only "real" option at this point. And La Canfora is usually wrong. The only well known national analyst I trust is Schefter. I'm sure you read my post but a Steelers insider said both the Cards and the Seahags are interested and offering a ton. I don't want him traded period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgpound3 Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 And La Canfora is usually wrong. The only well known national analyst I trust is Schefter. I'm sure you read my post but a Steelers insider said both the Cards and the Seahags are interested and offering a ton. I don't want him traded period. Raiders tried to trade for Mcnabb, so it makes sense they would go after Roethlisberger. Cardinals need a QB, and so do the Seahawks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 You'll need that many high picks to actually get a servicanle player with how shitty tomlin and colbert have been of late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 You'll need that many high picks to actually get a servicanle player with how shitty tomlin and colbert have been of late What? lol I'm not even going there, totally ridiculous statement. I'll just list the players Timmons, Woodley, Sepulvada, Mendenhall, Dixon, Hood and Wallace Plus a host of legitimate eventual starters that I won't list because they are unproven. Dixon is a fringe guy in that regard. Whats to say Sweed isn't past his personal ailment and ready to be a legit WR? Colbert and the Steelers are routinely one of the best drafting teams in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professor_g Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 I think it would be impossible for me to cheer for Rothlisberger in a Browns uniform. I'd still be a Browns fan, of course, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 it was somewhat in jest...but hood? ya mean the guy that couldn't take over for snack? lol....yup...you know your shit. bringing back cowhers rejects doesnt say much for the past 3 drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunkonmyback DPOY Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 What? lol I'm not even going there, totally ridiculous statement. I'll just list the players Timmons, Woodley, Sepulvada, Mendenhall, Dixon, Hood and Wallace Plus a host of legitimate eventual starters that I won't list because they are unproven. Dixon is a fringe guy in that regard. Whats to say Sweed isn't past his personal ailment and ready to be a legit WR? Colbert and the Steelers are routinely one of the best drafting teams in the league. It's no use. I've posted all the players Tomlins brought in that now start or have a major impact on our team, it all just gets ignored. I've posted late round picks and UDFAs that made the team and doing way better than expected, but it's all ignored. It's way to early to pass judgement on most of the players Tomlin has drafted becuase they are all still very young, but this board acts like all of them will be busts and will never improve. Just under half of our 22 starters (not to mention longer snapper, punter and return man, and most other special teams positions) will be Tomlin players next year, and that's only Tomlin's 4th year with the team. In 4 year, most Browns will be Holmgren players becuase the Browns suck. Tomlin inerited a Super Bowl caliber team and his players are filling in and keeping with par. They also think bringing back experienced veterans as DEPTH (not to start) becuase the removal of the salary cap allows us to spend more money than usual to improve depth and not just pay starters means Tomlin is desperate for players. But in reallity, it makes perfect sense to have experienced starters as backups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteelers Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Any team that could acquire BB is trying their damn hardest to get a deal done, no matter what Adam Schefter says......Any team in the top ten that landed BB, if he were traded to them, would instantly be a contender. Even the Browns, and I'd even say the Browns would have a great chance at winning the division. However, if a trade does happen with BB, I will be very pissed. Not often does a QB come along that goes 14-0 in their rookie regular season and leads his team to an AFCC game then wins the SB the very next year. Hate BB all you want but you know that the Steelers would be very foolish if they trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagitron Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 it was somewhat in jest...but hood? ya mean the guy that couldn't take over for snack? lol....yup...you know your shit. bringing back cowhers rejects doesnt say much for the past 3 drafts. Ziggy Hood wasn't brought in to take over for Hampton. Nor do the Steelers rush players to start unless absolutely necessary. The only reason Hood even saw the field was because Smith was injured and when he did he had 5 tackles, 3 assists and a sack. Where did you read that Hood was drafted to replace Big Snack? oh that's right you didn't because he wasn't drafted to replace Hampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
next2nothing Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 And La Canfora is usually wrong. The only well known national analyst I trust is Schefter. I'm sure you read my post but a Steelers insider said both the Cards and the Seahags are interested and offering a ton. I don't want him traded period. No, I didn't catch your post bout what Schefter said and I don't like La Canfora either but I heard the same report about the Raiders being the only viable team, IF he were to be traded, on ESPN as well as reading about it on PFT. Who knows what reports are more true than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 the steelers would be crazy to trade roethlisberger. from a football standpoint it makes no sense. on the moral side well that's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipeboy Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 I think it would be impossible for me to cheer for Rothlisberger in a Browns uniform. I'd still be a Browns fan, of course, but... If he took the browns deep into the playoffs I think you would find it in your heart to forgive him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 It's no use. I've posted all the players Tomlins brought in that now start or have a major impact on our team, it all just gets ignored. I've posted late round picks and UDFAs that made the team and doing way better than expected, but it's all ignored. It's way to early to pass judgement on most of the players Tomlin has drafted becuase they are all still very young, but this board acts like all of them will be busts and will never improve. Just under half of our 22 starters (not to mention longer snapper, punter and return man, and most other special teams positions) will be Tomlin players next year, and that's only Tomlin's 4th year with the team. In 4 year, most Browns will be Holmgren players becuase the Browns suck. Tomlin inerited a Super Bowl caliber team and his players are filling in and keeping with par. They also think bringing back experienced veterans as DEPTH (not to start) becuase the removal of the salary cap allows us to spend more money than usual to improve depth and not just pay starters means Tomlin is desperate for players. But in reallity, it makes perfect sense to have experienced starters as backups. No, no, I agree with you. Tomlin has brought in players that have a major impact on your team.... a 9-7 team. (Is it Tomlin making these choices? Don't you have a GM and an owner who are also responsible) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 If the Browns took Big Gay Ben, I wouldn't mind. Shit, let's give him a try. Love to rub it in the Steelers fan base face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 kevin colbert has been GM since 2000....so methinks its tomlins influence by dictating the players he needs. i refuse to believe that he just forgot how to draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 Any team that could acquire BB is trying their damn hardest to get a deal done, no matter what Adam Schefter says......Any team in the top ten that landed BB, if he were traded to them, would instantly be a contender. Even the Browns, and I'd even say the Browns would have a great chance at winning the division. However, if a trade does happen with BB, I will be very pissed. Not often does a QB come along that goes 14-0 in their rookie regular season and leads his team to an AFCC game then wins the SB the very next year. Hate BB all you want but you know that the Steelers would be very foolish if they trade him. Why would the Patriots want to let go of Bill Belichick for a draft pick? Around this Board here, BB is Bill Belichick, former Browns coach. PB is Paul Brown JB is Jim Brown BK is Bernie Kosar There are others but I won't school you on them now If you are referring to someone else, you need to use a different acronym. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 If the Browns took Big Gay Ben, I wouldn't mind. Shit, let's give him a try. Love to rub it in the Steelers fan base face. Like I said, we could take him off their hands. The deal would be him along with their first round pick at #18 in exchange for our #7 pick. I don't care if Steeler trolls don't think that is a good deal. We would be washing their dirty laundry and that comes with a price. If they don't like it, go talk to Al Davis. If they like it then the Steelers could select Brady Clausen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spunkonmyback DPOY Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 No, no, I agree with you. Tomlin has brought in players that have a major impact on your team.... a 9-7 team. (Is it Tomlin making these choices? Don't you have a GM and an owner who are also responsible) It's hard to be good when two of your three best defenders are hurt the entire season....We certianly didn't lack talent on offense, we just had a Retarded offensive corrdinator that even the Browns were smart enough to fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
professor_g Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 If he took the browns deep into the playoffs I think you would find it in your heart to forgive him. I think he'd also have to apologize to the girls he had his way with, and show some signs that his character is evolving in a good direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 It's hard to be good when two of your three best defenders are hurt the entire season....We certianly didn't lack talent on offense, we just had a Retarded offensive corrdinator that even the Browns were smart enough to fire. In the words of Bill Parcels: "You are what your record is." The Browns would have been a lot better without all their injuries over the years as well. Perhaps you will get these guys back and your record will improve. Perhaps it will be worse, perhaps the same. But, the Steelers were a 9-7 team, just like the Browns were a 5-11 team. But, you didn't answer the question: Who is primarily responsible for talent acquisition. You make it sound like it is Tomlin. Is that true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sipeboy Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 If Gay Ben went to the browns, would he then be the greatest QB in browns history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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