Arizona Immigration Law Debate

[BrownIndian]

Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona signed the nation’s toughest bill on illegal immigration into law on Friday. Its aim is to identify, prosecute and deport illegal immigrants.

 

Do you think that this is a good law and is the way to go or do you feel that it is a waste of resource and an attack on civil rights ?

[Chicopee John]

Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona signed the nation’s toughest bill on illegal immigration into law on Friday. Its aim is to identify, prosecute and deport illegal immigrants.

 

Do you think that this is a good law and is the way to go or do you feel that it is a waste of resource and an attack on civil rights ?

 

 

Truth be told, I don't understand the big bruhaha over this - I actually do but...............

 

Bravo to AZ for taking these proactive steps. Their State, apparently, is being populated with illegal immigrants and the crime rate is being bolstered by this group of individuals.

 

#$^% John McCain for sponsoring the original "Comprehensive Immigrations Bill' along with - then only brain dead - Ted Kennedy. McCain's days in politics are numbered. Actually he should have been sent out to pasture before the last election.

 

 

Do non-citizens have 'civil rights'?

 

[DieHardBrownsFan]

I think its a fantastic law and should be done by all the states. Illegals shouldn't be here. I don't care what country they are from. But lets face the facts, 99 percent of them are from Mexico/Central America. This is a great law.

[Mr. T]

Lets try putting it this way,

 

Joe Legal works a construction job and gets paid $25 per hour and pays taxes and obeys the laws of the land

 

Joe Illegal gets paid $15 per hour under the table. does not pay taxes and breaks the law.

 

 

And Obama and the left wing want to allow this to continue because they will also allow them to vote when that is illegal as well.

 

 

Meanwhile 1 out of 5 americans are without work and crime is skyrocketing along with welfare and americans not being able to feed cloth and shelter their loved ones.

 

 

[BrownIndian]

And Obama and the left wing want to allow this to continue because they will also allow them to vote when that is illegal as well.

 

 

I think that the hispanic vote bank is one of the biggest reasons why many politicians are afraid to tackle the illegal immigration problem head on.

[Chicopee John]

Lets try putting it this way,

 

Joe Legal works a construction job and gets paid $25 per hour and pays taxes and obeys the laws of the land

 

Joe Illegal gets paid $15 per hour under the table. does not pay taxes and breaks the law.

 

 

And Obama and the left wing want to allow this to continue because they will also allow them to vote when that is illegal as well.

 

 

Meanwhile 1 out of 5 americans are without work and crime is skyrocketing along with welfare and americans not being able to feed cloth and shelter their loved ones.

 

I agree with you Mr. T but cannot help but blame on the business owners who hire the illegals.

 

The Dems want the votes and the Repubs want the cheap labor. Working Americans - ALL Americans - lose as a consequence.

 

[VaporTrail]

I agree with you Mr. T but cannot help but blame on the business owners who hire the illegals.

 

The Dems want the votes and the Repubs want the cheap labor. Working Americans - ALL Americans - lose as a consequence.

 

This. This a thousand times. You need to address the root of the problem to fix it. Jail people that hire these guys. I, for one, have brown skin and feel threatened by this law. I know what the law says, but regardless, it's just asking for racial profiling to happen. How else would you do it? If the aliens aren't breaking any other laws, then what do you go by? It's gotta be what they look like.

[Mr. T]

I think that the hispanic vote bank is one of the biggest reasons why many politicians are afraid to tackle the illegal immigration problem head on.

 

 

Those american citizens of hispanic descent, dislike all of the illegal aliens who are here. Just ask them.

[Mr. T]

I agree with you Mr. T but cannot help but blame on the business owners who hire the illegals.

 

The Dems want the votes and the Repubs want the cheap labor. Working Americans - ALL Americans - lose as a consequence.

 

 

I have a word that I use for those who hire illegal workers. crooks.

[Mr. T]

The rest of the story and differences of the Joes below

JOE LEGAL vs. JOSE ILLEGAL

 

You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".

Both families have two parents, two children and live in California .

 

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour, with taxes deducted.

 

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number and gets paid $15.00 cash per hour, "under the table".

 

Ready? Now pay attention ...

 

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week or $52,000.00 per year. Now take minimum 30% away for state and federal tax and Joe Legal now has$31,231.00.

 

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays NO state or federal taxes. Jose Illegal now has $31,200.00.

 

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $24,031.00.

 

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

 

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food or $6,000.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

 

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare, due to his "anchor children" that were born in the US .. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

 

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.

 

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

 

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month or $2,400.00 for car insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

 

Jose Illegal says "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

 

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.

 

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, plus what he sends out of the country every month.

 

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

 

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

 

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school. Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL program. Joe Legal's children go home and he needs to pay for a babysitter to watch them while he and his wife work.

 

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay anything.

 

Do you get it, now?

 

If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens in any manner, then you are part of the problem!

 

It's WAY PAST time to take a stand for America and Americans!

 

It is also way past time to rescind the "anchor baby" law. Remove the incentive for illegals to rush across our border to give birth and thus have access to benefits Americans have worked and paid their entire lives for!

 

 

 

[calfoxwc]

Vapor, you don't solve the problem just by "going after the businesses that hire them".

 

Thousands of them are gang members spreading drug related crime over the United States.

 

It doesn't have any freakin thing to do with "businesses" when they don't work.

 

and all too many of them survived by being low level runners/deliverers for the drug trade.

 

And that is partly why Mexico desperately wants us to let them in.

 

It has to do with crimininals. And the illegals who just come here to work ? Don't pay taxes,

 

but use up med clinic/emergency room resources and it is a gigantic crisis in Arizona. For Arizonians

 

SURVIVAL, they must stop it. There are a lot of places in southern Arizona, that Arizona folks will not

 

go anymore, and tourist traffic has been plummeting. And don't even think that the crime rate in

 

Phoenix isn't making a lot of Americans desperate to save their city.

 

And, John is absolutely right. I say, too, that foreign terrorists and illegal immigrants have NO FREAKIN CIVIL

 

RIGHTS. And Vapor, a LOT of folks are dark skinned.. I have a friend from India who plans on becomiing a citizen,

 

he loves it here. He would never be "profiled" because of a law like this.

 

to insist no major action be taken, seems like "hell yeah, let em in so we can get their vote" by either side.

 

Boot em off the plank before they get to the end of it, says I.

[VaporTrail]

Vapor, you don't solve the problem just by "going after the businesses that hire them".

 

That would help some of this problem.

 

Thousands of them are gang members spreading drug related crime over the United States.

 

It doesn't have any freakin thing to do with "businesses" when they don't work.

 

and all too many of them survived by being low level runners/deliverers for the drug trade.

 

And thousands more pick fruit and plant trees.

 

And, John is absolutely right. I say, too, that foreign terrorists and illegal immigrants have NO FREAKIN CIVIL

 

RIGHTS. And Vapor, a LOT of folks are dark skinned.. I have a friend from India who plans on becomiing a citizen,

 

he loves it here. He would never be "profiled" because of a law like this.

 

Never say never. I am a fourth Filipino, and because of it I've been subjected to "random screenings" about 90% of the time I go to the airport. My car's been stopped at the border of Canada, and they did a complete search of it. Seriously, if someone's just picking fruit, how do you know they're illegal or not, your guess would probably be better if you looked at the color of their skin. If you think that this won't increase racial profiling, I think you're crazy.

 

to insist no major action be taken, seems like "hell yeah, let em in so we can get their vote" by either side.

 

Boot em off the plank before they get to the end of it, says I.

 

I didn't insist "no major action be taken." But if you think that booting them out as we see them is going to solve anything, I think you're wrong. Short of building a wall that hits bedrock and putting Apache helicopters at the border, 5 are going to come in for every one we ship out. Obviously Mexico's not going to change, we need to do something that keeps them from wanting to come over here.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Vapor, you don't solve the problem just by "going after the businesses that hire them".

 

That would help some of this problem.

 

Thousands of them are gang members spreading drug related crime over the United States.

 

It doesn't have any freakin thing to do with "businesses" when they don't work.

 

and all too many of them survived by being low level runners/deliverers for the drug trade.

 

And thousands more pick fruit and plant trees.

 

And, John is absolutely right. I say, too, that foreign terrorists and illegal immigrants have NO FREAKIN CIVIL

 

RIGHTS. And Vapor, a LOT of folks are dark skinned.. I have a friend from India who plans on becoming a citizen,

 

he loves it here. He would never be "profiled" because of a law like this.

 

Never say never. I am a fourth Filipino, and because of it I've been subjected to "random screenings" about 90% of the time I go to the airport. My car's been stopped at the border of Canada, and they did a complete search of it. Seriously, if someone's just picking fruit, how do you know they're illegal or not, your guess would probably be better if you looked at the color of their skin. If you think that this won't increase racial profiling, I think you're crazy.

 

to insist no major action be taken, seems like "hell yeah, let em in so we can get their vote" by either side.

 

Boot em off the plank before they get to the end of it, says I.

 

I didn't insist "no major action be taken." But if you think that booting them out as we see them is going to solve anything, I think you're wrong. Short of building a wall that hits bedrock and putting Apache helicopters at the border, 5 are going to come in for every one we ship out. Obviously Mexico's not going to change, we need to do something that keeps them from wanting to come over here.

 

 

Okay Vapor, you say you are a fourth Filipino. I guess you mean fourth generation. I'm retired from the Navy. I've served with MANY Filipino's. Most were fantastic sailors who were hard working and great people. I've been to the Philippines many times before the bases (Subic Bay and Clark AFB) were closed due to the base negotiations. But you have to realize that a lot of the illegals are a drain on this country. I don't know where you grew up, but there are parts of this country that are really going down due to illegal immigrants. Filipino's are hard working people. Who do things right for the most part. When I was on active duty, they used to have a base agreement, where so many Filipino's were allowed to enlist in the US military per year as long as we had the bases in the RP. That ended in 1991. Don't try and compare yourself to some illegal immigrant who snuck across the border and is living in Manassas VA, sitting by the 7/11 every morning at 0500.

[VaporTrail]

No, I'm second generation, grandma's 100%, so I think that'd make me a fourth. My grandpa was at Subic Bay, too. But yeah, I could care less about the rights of the illegals, and I'm also not trying to compare myself to them. Many people at my university have assumed that I'm Mexican, or they've told me that I looked like a Puerto Rican friend's brother. I'm not the one comparing myself to the illegals, it'll be the cops who do it. My worries aren't about offending or hassling the illegals, my gripe is with all of the legitimate citizens that will be racially profiled. Under this law, if a cop finds you to be the suspect of a crime (oh, let's say illegal immigration), and you forget your wallet, then they can arrest and detain you until your papers are produced or til they sort it out. No legal citizen should be subject to that, and you'db e enraged if it were to happen to you.

[calfoxwc]

I understand, Vapor - but

 

in that Arizona bill, it clearly adheres to Federal guidelines that prohibit

 

racial profiling.

 

Besides, if you were driving and were pulled over, and didn't have your wallet,

 

all they have to do is go back to their squad car and call it in, confirming your name and address,

 

and ownership of your car.

 

Although, a friend/co-teacher of my Wifie, is unmarried and adopted a black son.

 

He was pulled over while driving his mom's car. She told him not to wear that silly hat

 

that is popular at their school... she is white, and was a good bit annoyed when she had to go

 

to the station to confirm it all.

 

First thing they did, was to ask her son "Whose car is this?"

 

He handled himself very well. that's wrong.

 

But illegal immigration has to be stopped.

[VaporTrail]

I understand that racial profiling is prohibited by the bill, but how, then, do the officers decide who they think is doing something illegal? If the crime they're cracking down on is being in the country illegally, most of the people doing so will be keeping a low profile and trying to blend in as American citizens. I just can't see any other outcome than a bunch of American citizens getting their rights trampled.

 

 

Fast forward it to 1:30 if you want to get to the point, the guy provided ID and SS card, and he still got detained. This guy IS an American, and I'd be infuriated if I was treated like this.

 

Keep in mind, this happened before the law actually went into motion, and now this law will be encouraging the stopping of people that cops think have snuck into the country. The only thing this law is really encouraging is racial profiling, I mean, if they're only picking fruit or driving a truck, how can you tell them from legal Latino-Americans. Does it help crack down on the violent ones and drug runners? I don't know, possibly, but you know that they're driving really carefully too.

 

Illegal immigration is a problem that needs to be addressed, but this just seems to me like an effective way to alienate a bunch of American citizens.

 

To make a real change you need to stop them from coming, as it is now, Wal-Marts and farms love illegals because they get work done for dirt cheap. Illegals love these places because they can send the money back to Mexico where it's worth wayyyy more. It just makes sense. So long as this pay gradient exists at the border, illegals will still want to come and corporations will still want to hire them. Throw some undercover cops into the mix, and if you find out that a company is paying them under min. wage, fine the everliving shit out of them.

[Westside Steve]

We should rightly do it all Vape.

Arrest and deport illegals, strengthen border security enfoce penalties on thos who hire and have national ID.

 

I also have no beef with documenting temporary workers.

 

But hey, I've been stopped and sobriety tested a few times when I was cold sober.

Why?

Driving home from gigs at 2 or 3 AM.

Profiling?

 

 

And did anybody see the Dem mayor of Phoeninx likening this law to Nazi Germany? (For thouse who get outraged about that stuff )

 

WSS

 

[calfoxwc]

Well, Steve, you WERE sporting a fine tan on yer face at the farmer's market....

 

they have to solve the problem.

 

But illegal immigrant Mexican gangs are in most states now.

 

I saw a documentary on TV where they find truckloads of drugs,

 

and/or people sneaking in.

 

Maybe we should just sent lefties down along the border, on the Mexican side,

to talk to them, and the would be illegals would think this isn't a place

anybody would want to sneak into. @@

[Mr. T]

Phoenix has the world's 2nd highest kidnapping rate behind Mexico City

 

And a the state of Arizona has taken steps to lower crime while Prez Obammy ridicules them and call them names. Is he afraid that his voter base may get deported?

[Chicopee John]

Interesting - and funny, IMHO - recent story about 'profiling'.

 

I was at a Garage Sale Saturday and overheard the homeowners asking a particular 'customer' about 4-20.

 

The woman said, "You know what we were doing on 4-20, but don't know what the origin is" - the customer had long hair, a beard, 'grung' clothing, etc.

 

He said, "I must first say I never drink or take any type of drugs".

 

LOL, the woman and her friends were all apologetic.

 

 

We all profile one way or the other, whether we like it or not. It is simply easier to blame the Police for political reasons rather to admit that we are all "guilty".

[VaporTrail]

Right, profiling happens. But I think that getting profiled because you're driving at 3am on a Saturday and getting profiled because of the color of your skin are night and day. The only constant is that both of them piss off whomever they wrongly stop. I mean, how many white people do you think they are going to stop because of this law? I'll admit though, if we did go to every brown person in the country, every day, and ask them for their papers, we'd weed out a bunch of illegals, but I just can't see that sitting well with most.

[Mr. T]

Ill be honest Vapor not all mexicans are brown skinned. So those who will be checking will be checking everyone. This will still be a tough task for them, but you can be certain if a man cannot speak english or speaks broken english he will be asked to show some identification.

[heckofajobbrownie]

Ill be honest Vapor not all mexicans are brown skinned. So those who will be checking will be checking everyone. This will still be a tough task for them, but you can be certain if a man cannot speak english or speaks broken english he will be asked to show some identification.

 

Haha. Holy xxxx.

 

 

[calfoxwc]

But the law stipulates that no one will be simply "pulled out" or "pulled over".

 

It is simply saying that the STATE will ENFORCE the FEDERAL LAW

 

that the DEMS do NOT want to ENFORCE.

 

No profiling - it is stipulated that way.

 

But illegals are best advised not to break the law, or loiter.

 

Plain and simple.

[Westside Steve]

Right, profiling happens. But I think that getting profiled because you're driving at 3am on a Saturday and getting profiled because of the color of your skin are night and day. The only constant is that both of them piss off whomever they wrongly stop. I mean, how many white people do you think they are going to stop because of this law? I'll admit though, if we did go to every brown person in the country, every day, and ask them for their papers, we'd weed out a bunch of illegals, but I just can't see that sitting well with most.

 

 

Depends where you are.

I'd bet a great many fellas with a brogue in Boston are undocumented.

 

 

I had to drive to Peterboro Ontario to bail out and return my sax player that overstayed his visa.

 

WSS

[Mr. T]

Haha. Holy xxxx.

 

 

What a joker. We should check you and your messiah's id. lol!

 

 

 

 

fWWuKuDEmb4&feature

[Chicopee John]

>>I'd bet a great many fellas with a brogue in Boston are undocumented.>>

 

How do you think Obama's Auntie acquired her brogue??

 

[calfoxwc]

Say, what did happen with Obamao' auntie?

 

You'd think the "media" would be paparazzi all over that...

 

eh... not.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

Say, what did happen with Obamao' auntie?

 

You'd think the "media" would be paparazzi all over that...

 

eh... not.

 

She's probably living in the White House with Obama's Mother in Law, at mine and your expense to boot.

[DieHardBrownsFan]

What a joker. We should check you and your messiah's id. lol!

 

 

 

 

fWWuKuDEmb4&feature

 

 

Reminds me of when I lived in Chula Vista. So many illegals all of the sudden running across the road, like deer. They had signs with people running as warning to watch out, just like with the deer. The problem is huge and has to be taken care of, at any cost.