Evolution of the Cleveland Browns

[mopaji]

Mangini inherited a team filled with terribly over-paid CFL talent, drama from underacheiving primadonnas an incredibly ill-equipped yet vocal fan-base, and a 4-12 team with zero cap space. Not to mention a bull's eye on his back from the NFL for his role as a whistle-blower in spygate. How did he respond?

 

He got as many stand-up, classy, smart, team oriented players on this team in year one as he could. Despite being met with much resistance from the above mentioned primadonnas as well as the fan-base and media, he stuck to his vision all the while assuring us all that it works. And wouldn't you know it, he finished the season with 4 straight wins and a Gatorade bath from players that we were told hated him. At the end of last season players gave off the impression that they did not want the season to end despite only winning 5 games. And now, with the blue-collar core of this team in place and a philosophy and culture completely turned-around he has the support of his players and a roster full of guys who know how to do their jobs.

 

Enter 2010 draft weekend. With a solid foundation, he has now inserted at least half a dozen bruising, physical, smart young players in very important positions on the team. He is continuing the face-lift of this team and turning us into the type of team we loved in the 80's. Smart, classy, blue-collared, and above all, physical players. And because of the foundation of players laid last year, these young players are now in a much better position to succeed on this team. And do not kid yourselves, this was a Mangini draft. He told Heckert what he was looking for and Heckert delivered.

 

His vision is becoming clear to everyone even the Grossis of the world. Because of last year, this year was possible. He endured infinte criticism throughout last year and stuck to his guns. Admitting and demonstrating that he didn't care what was said about him, he was going to build a team. And he did. Of course we have yet to see how all of this will translate onto the field but for the first time in a long time, we can see an identity and a culture being put in place in Berea. And it is almost completely credited to what Mangini has done since coming to Cleveland. And it provides plenty of reason to be excited about our team again. Nomore backing into the playoffs like in 2003. Nomore paper tigers like what we saw in 2007. This is becoming a franchise again and we should all be very, very excited about that.

 

These are my Browns.

 

 

*drops the mic*

[Thaak]

Mangini inherited a team filled with terribly over-paid CFL talent, drama from underacheiving primadonnas an incredibly ill-equipped yet vocal fan-base, and a 4-12 team with zero cap space. Not to mention a bull's eye on his back from the NFL for his role as a whistle-blower in spygate. How did he respond?

 

He got as many stand-up, classy, smart, team oriented players on this team in year one as he could. Despite being met with much resistance from the above mentioned primadonnas as well as the fan-base and media, he stuck to his vision all the while assuring us all that it works. And wouldn't you know it, he finished the season with 4 straight wins and a Gatorade bath from players that we were told hated him. At the end of last season players gave off the impression that they did not want the season to end despite only winning 5 games. And now, with the blue-collar core of this team in place and a philosophy and culture completely turned-around he has the support of his players and a roster full of guys who know how to do their jobs.

 

Enter 2010 draft weekend. With a solid foundation, he has now inserted at least half a dozen bruising, physical, smart young players in very important positions on the team. He is continuing the face-lift of this team and turning us into the type of team we loved in the 80's. Smart, classy, blue-collared, and above all, physical players. And because of the foundation of players laid last year, these young players are now in a much better position to succeed on this team. And do not kid yourselves, this was a Mangini draft. He told Heckert what he was looking for and Heckert delivered.

 

His vision is becoming clear to everyone even the Grossis of the world. Because of last year, this year was possible. He endured infinte criticism throughout last year and stuck to his guns. Admitting and demonstrating that he didn't care what was said about him, he was going to build a team. And he did. Of course we have yet to see how all of this will translate onto the field but for the first time in a long time, we can see an identity and a culture being put in place in Berea. And it is almost completely credited to what Mangini has done since coming to Cleveland. And it provides plenty of reason to be excited about our team again. Nomore backing into the playoffs like in 2003. Nomore paper tigers like what we saw in 2007. This is becoming a franchise again and we should all be very, very excited about that.

 

These are my Browns.

 

 

*drops the mic*

 

We have disagreed many times, vociferously, on many topics. This is certainly not one of those times. Good post.

 

[halfsane]

The dropping the mic sealed the deal for me.

 

Good post !

 

 

 

[DawgTracker]

Great post. I think that Mangini, Heckert and holmgren make a great team. I think the type of players that mangini wants are the same type of players that philly has been drafting with heckert. Holmgren can give mangini and staff a lot of direction on how to groom a future QB. I believe many of the pieces are in place for the browns to become a good then terrific football team.

[next2nothing]

Great post Mopaji!

 

I believe that Mangini plus our current FO staff will help make the Cleveland Browns a contender again.

 

Can't wait for the season to start!

[sisky fringo]

And do not kid yourselves, this was a Mangini draft. He told Heckert what he was looking for and Heckert delivered.

not to mention a functional Front Office on the same page as the coaching staff.

this illustrates it as well

 

''Holmgren's got a lot of guts to wait it out and pass on Colt McCoy and take Montario Hardesty and all these other players, safeties, corners, and he falls right to you,'' ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. said. ''You look back at this draft three or four years from now, this could be the best pick the Cleveland Browns made.''

 

Holmgren confided later that filling needs at safety and running back was part of the plan, but McCoy wasn't.

 

''I really didn't think he would be available to us,'' Holmgren said. ''I thought he would go before we had a chance to pick him. When it didn't happen and it didn't happen, I really wanted to do it and Eric and Tom went along with me.''

 

Holmgren joked that every time the Browns' pick came up and McCoy was still sitting there, he'd look at coach Eric Mangini.

 

''He didn't say anything, he'd give me the eyes,'' Holmgren said, rolling his eyes in a perfect imitation of Mangini. ''I'd say, 'Eric, what are you thinking?' It was the perfect example of us working together. If I had allowed him to make every pick, we would have had six corners.''

 

Mangini joked back, ''One of 'em could have played guard.''

But Holmgren said that if Mangini and General Manager Tom Heckert had wanted someone else, he would deferred.

 

''Had they said no, I'd rather go this way . . . I wasn't going to force-feed that one,'' Holmgren said. ''Sometimes after all the scientific study and preparation, it kind of falls to you. If it was going to happen, that's kind of the way I wanted it to happen.''

 

After years of misery, is this a sign that the Browns' fortunes are turning? We can only hope.

infusing Holmgren into the organization added instant credibility to the Browns as a whole and has paid dividends already. it keeps the media off their backs and makes them go in search of other low hanging fruit to pick on/speculate about/cause controversy for. they can create dysfunction that often doesn't exist and i am happy to have the attention gone (!).

 

we didn't really hear much even when DA and Quinn were dumped, which would NOT have been the case under a solo EM. when he was on the hot seat he kept everything very close to his vest. with just a little success and the team and most fans buying in we are also seeing the lighter side of EM's personality and a huge difference in his approach to the media as well.

[Browns57]

So it seems that Holmgren wasn't lying about his feeling about McCoy. He does really like the kid and wanted him in a Browns uniform bad. He had to keep looking at Mangini and then say what are you thinking. That is great stuff. I guess since he deferred to Heckert and Mangini if this draft class ends up being dissapointing on the field Holmgren will have no problem showing Mangini to the door. I am really shocked though that they didn't take him sooner, and I wonder what QB they would have drafted later in the draft if they didn't take Tebow. I felt like they had to draft a QB no matter what to let him start to develop. Maybe they didn't feel that way.

[sisky fringo]

He had to keep looking at Mangini and then say what are you thinking.

i'm curious about the tone here, assuming it to be more "So Eric, what are you thinking here at this pick?" as opposed to "WHAT THE EFF ARE YOU THINKING?!?!? TAKE HIM NOW!!!"

 

i suspect no conspiracy, no "hahaha! if he makes bad picks i am free from responsibility, let's see if he falls on his face!!!"

 

i believe Holmgren is genuinely happy to have EM and has full confidence in him, and he's fortunate to have him as well imo...Holmgren just gets all the credit.

 

also after adding Jake and Seneca i feel the QB position was serviceable and not a huge need on their board, more of a situation where if a guy they valued really fell they'd consider taking him. this seems to be the exact situation they were faced with.

 

--in Mangini i trust--

[mopaji]

''He didn't say anything, he'd give me the eyes,'' Holmgren said, rolling his eyes in a perfect imitation of Mangini. ''I'd say, 'Eric, what are you thinking?' It was the perfect example of us working together. If I had allowed him to make every pick, we would have had six corners.''

 

Mangini joked back, ''One of 'em could have played guard.''

 

 

 

Awesome!

[next2nothing]

So funny how some reporters still won't get off Mangini's back even after reading about such things as mopaji posted above me where he and Holmgren joked with each other.

 

This is a recent article off PFT...

 

Holmgren "pulled rank" to draft Colt McCoy

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on April 26, 2010 12:17 PM ET

Tom Heckert is the general manager in Cleveland, but there's no question who's in charge.

 

Mike Holmgren says he tried to run the Browns draft over the weekend like Ron Wolf used to, with everyone contributing. But the Big Show is clearly atop the flow chart.

 

When Colt McCoy was still on the board at No. 85, Holmgren jokingly told SI's Peter King that he "pulled rank" to get the selection done.

 

The Browns had Kentucky defensive tackle Corey Peters and Arizona State tackle Shawn Lauvao atop their draft board, but Peters was selected at No. 83 by Atlanta. Holmgren decided then to deviate some from Heckert's plan.

 

"Then,'' Holmgren said. "the fates were telling me something. We had to pick [McCoy]. I said to Tom, 'Let's pull the trigger.'" (The Browns got Lauvao anyway later.)

 

Holmgren also confirmed that Jon Gruden's recommendation of McCoy was a factor in the pick.

 

I don't even see the point in this article. Of course when McCoy was still there at #85 we pulled the trigger. Great value pick. A late 1st/early 2nd round talent for a late 3rd round pick. No reason not to since it was pretty guaranteed that we would be grabbing a QB sometime in this draft.

 

Gotta love that little shot thrown in there at the end about Gruden. You should see the comments on that article. All these people bashing Holmgren and Mangini. Many saying that Gruden is gonna be our coach in 2011... just really stupid stuff.

[Gips]

So it seems that Holmgren wasn't lying about his feeling about McCoy. He does really like the kid and wanted him in a Browns uniform bad. He had to keep looking at Mangini and then say what are you thinking. That is great stuff. I guess since he deferred to Heckert and Mangini if this draft class ends up being dissapointing on the field Holmgren will have no problem showing Mangini to the door. I am really shocked though that they didn't take him sooner, and I wonder what QB they would have drafted later in the draft if they didn't take Tebow. I felt like they had to draft a QB no matter what to let him start to develop. Maybe they didn't feel that way.

 

Ive said all along this was mangini's draft minus McCoy...and its the right way to run things for once, im all for the prez allowing the GM to work with the coach to deliver exactly what coach and his coordinators feel they need to win and im also for the coach taking the heat or the glory based on how it turns out..honestly i dont have high expectations this year we should land around 6-10 maybe 8-8 if things start clicking..but what i do expect to see is a coaching staff and players giving it everything they have to win and i expect to see progress that can be built on this year not the dilly dallying around we saw the first half of last year..

 

Mangini has divorced and remarried and gets a new honeymoon as far as im concerned lets hope he makes good responsible use of it because i can tell you holmgren and heckert have give him what he wants now he has to make it work in a way that we all can see great progress being made....

[professor_g]

Great post, mopaji!

 

My favorite quote of this past week:

 

Holmgren says, "I made the decision to keep Eric [Mangini] and every day I know I did the right thing."

 

As much as I love Cribbs, I have to say that, as a fan, Mangini is my favorite Brown.

[Earl34]

Excellent post.

 

I would agree that Holmgren gives the team the credibility to say "I made this decision and that's that..." whereas Mangini would have been endlessly barraged with the same inane questions regarding the most minor things. The buck stops with The Big Show.

 

I think that Mangini's vision must be one hell of an organized and logical one because Holmgren bought into it when we were all led to believe that Mangini was a goner.

 

When you look at this roster you think of how many cancers were excised. You look at what's there and you see guys who are pros and who fit their roles. You see guys who reflect the blue collar town of Cleveland and you're proud that they represent you.

 

You look at this front office and you say to yourself that they are starting to resemble the Green Bays or the Philadelphias (obviously) and that's a GOOD thing. No longer are we going to be held hostage by the malcontents. No longer are we going to blow a draft-gasm to move up and select a choice that makes zero sense. Looking back on this draft, we see players that perhaps confused us at first but on the whole, it makes a lot of sense. We got tougher. We got more aggressive. We got faster. We got smarter.

 

 

[choco]

additionally, we'd be screwed this year if Mangini didn't stockpile the picks and dump the cap hazard cancers. he laid the foundation to make MH's job easier, hence turn this train wreck around.

 

kudos.....despite the haters. makes them look all the more foolish.

[professor_g]

kudos.....despite the haters. makes them look all the more foolish.

 

Which includes everyone at WKNR. Apart from empty platitudes, I haven't heard anything reasonable on that station regarding the Browns in so long. I couldn't believe how every last one of them was set against Mangini, and their arguments were terrible! Grossi is a genuis by comparison.

 

[choco]

Grossi and genius in the same sentence.....

 

Its getting cold down here in hell...lol

[Canton Mike]

Great thread!

Mangini has been extremely courageous to stand by his principles in the face of some very personal attacks. He committed to his plan & stuck to it. That's the kind of man we need as Coach of the Browns & it's the kind of man we HAVE as our Coach. I am very glad that Holmgren stood by him.

We will all benefit from this TEAM of leaders.

Mike

[tampadawgs]

i think its funny that 95% of this board wanted Mangini fired last year, and now you all thin hes the greatest thing since Jim Brown......I glad to see he has changed your mind....

 

 

BTW...Great post mopaji

[sisky fringo]

As much as I love Cribbs, I have to say that, as a fan, Mangini is my favorite Brown.

 

WOW!

 

can't decide if that says a lot for EM or not much for our team. :/

[hoorta]

Great thread!

Mangini has been extremely courageous to stand by his principles in the face of some very personal attacks. He committed to his plan & stuck to it. That's the kind of man we need as Coach of the Browns & it's the kind of man we HAVE as our Coach. I am very glad that Holmgren stood by him.

We will all benefit from this TEAM of leaders.

Mike

 

I have to admit, I was one of the guys who wanted Mangini gone @ the bye, but (unlike some posters) I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong.

 

If Holmgren pulled rank and drafted MCoy, that's a good thing. MH has coached 3 HOFers and several other Pro-Bowl QBs, so if he thinks McCoy may be the answer- it's certainly worth taking a shot on him, especially in the third round. I wanted Andersuck out of town yesterday, and if McDaniels is convinced Quinn is all that hot a qb, why did he go out and draft Tebow?

 

[Canton Mike]

I have to admit, I was one of the guys who wanted Mangini gone @ the bye, but (unlike some posters) I'm not afraid to admit I was wrong.

 

If Holmgren pulled rank and drafted MCoy, that's a good thing. MH has coached 3 HOFers and several other Pro-Bowl QBs, so if he thinks McCoy may be the answer- it's certainly worth taking a shot on him, especially in the third round. I wanted Andersuck out of town yesterday, and if McDaniels is convinced Quinn is all that hot a qb, why did he go out and draft Tebow?

 

I was always a Mangini supporter, but I WAS (and posted to that effect) angry when he pulled Brady as quickly as he did. I still think that was a mistake, but also part of his (Mangini's) learning process. I also believe that with Holmgren working with him, we won't see the snap judgments we saw at times last year.

I'm also mystified with the QB thing in Denver???

Mike

 

[ballpeen]

i'm curious about the tone here, assuming it to be more "So Eric, what are you thinking here at this pick?" as opposed to "WHAT THE EFF ARE YOU THINKING?!?!? TAKE HIM NOW!!!"

 

i suspect no conspiracy, no "hahaha! if he makes bad picks i am free from responsibility, let's see if he falls on his face!!!"

 

i believe Holmgren is genuinely happy to have EM and has full confidence in him, and he's fortunate to have him as well imo...Holmgren just gets all the credit.

 

also after adding Jake and Seneca i feel the QB position was serviceable and not a huge need on their board, more of a situation where if a guy they valued really fell they'd consider taking him. this seems to be the exact situation they were faced with.

 

--in Mangini i trust--

 

 

I agree. I don't think the browns had to take a qb just to take one. It doesn't make any sense to select one to season if you don't think seasoning is going to help. You can season a tough piece of meat to make it taste ok, but you can't get it to taste like a prime steak, and you sure as heck don't want to eat it every night.

 

 

I think by the 3rd round the potential of McCoy and the pick started to match...the risk/reward started to balance.

 

I don't think McCoy is ever going to be the best QB in the league, but he has a chance of being pretty solid to very good...or, not so good...as a 3rd rounder....not the first one taken, it won't kill us if he flops.

 

 

We hope he doesn't, but it won't cripple us if he goes the route of most of the other qbs we have drafted.

 

Stick him on the bench with open ears and open mind for a year or two, then see if he is the guy or not, but i don't look at him as the heir apparent....he is a player on the team who has to show what he has.

 

Let's put it this way, I don't know who all the top QB prospects are next year, but if the top one or two fell in to our laps, i don't think McCoy would be the reason we might pass on them. I don't think Colt is that type of prospect in the minds of the team. Nice prospect?? You bet. The guy you have inked in as your QB the next 12 years??? No.

[Thaak]

i think its funny that 95% of this board wanted Mangini fired last year, and now you all thin hes the greatest thing since Jim Brown......I glad to see he has changed your mind....

 

 

BTW...Great post mopaji

 

I think you are wrong. Only about 60% wanted him gone.

[ballpeen]

I think you are wrong. Only about 60% wanted him gone.

 

 

I'll go somewhere between you guys and say 76%.

 

[mopaji]

I was always a Mangini supporter, but I WAS (and posted to that effect) angry when he pulled Brady as quickly as he did. I still think that was a mistake, but also part of his (Mangini's) learning process. I also believe that with Holmgren working with him, we won't see the snap judgments we saw at times last year.

I'm also mystified with the QB thing in Denver???

Mike

 

 

 

I know it's all speculation but I am really convinced that Lerner wanted Brady in there to stir up support from the fans. I think the short leash was a result of Mangini saying "see Randy, the kid can't do it". This hunch of mine grew stronger after I saw just how resalute and decisive EM has been with everything else. There was some tugging going on in the background early last year and Kokinis was a casualty of that. EM knew how to fix it and Lerner wasn't comfortable with all of the quick change. Coach knew what he was doing all along and it took Holmgren singing Mangini's praises for everyone else to get in line and let the guy work. It's a shame it took some people so long but at least it happened.

[ballpeen]

I think you could be right, Mo.

[Bag O'Browns]

I know it's all speculation but I am really convinced that Lerner wanted Brady in there to stir up support from the fans. I think the short leash was a result of Mangini saying "see Randy, the kid can't do it". This hunch of mine grew stronger after I saw just how resalute and decisive EM has been with everything else. There was some tugging going on in the background early last year and Kokinis was a casualty of that. EM knew how to fix it and Lerner wasn't comfortable with all of the quick change. Coach knew what he was doing all along and it took Holmgren singing Mangini's praises for everyone else to get in line and let the guy work. It's a shame it took some people so long but at least it happened.

 

 

I tend to think you hit the nail right on the head with this one. Of course, Mangini cannot come out and say this BUT with how he acted about everything and how things went down, you certainly got the feeling Quinn was jammed down his throat. Mangini, i think with last years experience, learned a lot about himself as a coach in terms of going through the ringer like he did. His positive attributes rose to the top and Holmgren saw that. I tell you what won me over, there was an interview he gave in the middle of the year last year which was some of the best journalism i've seen in sometime. Basically, the guy interviewing Mangini wanted to see if he was as big of an idiot/villain as he was being portrayed as. (the article was posted on here) It showed you a man who you could tell KNOWS football and a man who cares about doing things the right way and the Browns way.

[choco]

I'll go somewhere between you guys and say 76%.

a large majority of that 76% was exiled to the brady quinn fan club board.

[professor_g]

QUOTE (professor_g @ Apr 26 2010, 04:29 PM)

As much as I love Cribbs, I have to say that, as a fan, Mangini is my favorite Brown.

 

 

WOW!

 

can't decide if that says a lot for EM or not much for our team. :/

 

Ha, I know it sounds pretty sad. RB is my favorite position, and usually my favorite Brown is just the current RB. But I have to give the nod to Mangini because I found myself thinking just the other day: I NEED a Browns poster for my office wall, and Mangini's got to be in the poster somewhere because nearly everything I like about the current team makes me think of Mangini.

[rich4eagle]

We have disagreed many times, vociferously, on many topics. This is certainly not one of those times. Good post.

 

and you and I as well, and indeed this was an excellent post...........good times are coming