AFC North predictions

[dawgpound3]

I'm just saying that Pittsburgh didn't take a chance on him because of his ability to pass protect. Marginal aka middle of the road will do just fine at RT because the last i checked Ben is pretty damn mobile and at least he can see whomever coming from the right side and do something about it. As far as everything else is concerned I don't need to hope. We have plenty of speed at those respective positions.

 

The problem is that who do you have to replace Adams? Hint, hint: There aren't all any. They all suck.

[Zombo]

the last i checked Ben is pretty damn mobile and at least he can see whomever coming from the right side and do something about it.

 

Yes, he is sure light in his loafers ... only QB in the NFL to have been sacked 46 or more times for four straight seasons.

 

Remember that time he saw Willie Mcginest coming and did something about it?

 

 

Zombo

 

 

[The Gipper]

You keep talking about Adams "settling in" and "adjusting", none of that helps the fact that he is a horrible pass protector and a penalty machine.

 

2009

Willie Colon -- 9 penalties, 6 sacks allowed, 4 hits allowed, 5 QB pressures allowed

Max Starks -- 7 penalties, 8 sacks allowed, 8 hits allowed, 15 QB pressures allowed

 

Are you ready for this?

 

Flozell Adams -- 13 penalties, 8 sacks allowed, 7 hits allowed, 34 QB pressures allowed

 

 

Yes, this "gentleman" only sees it one way: "Delhomme is over the hill and will be terrible" ...But....Adams will "settle in and adjust".

 

[pizzadeliveryguy]

Pittsburgh didn't take a flyer on him because of his ability to pass protect. Look at his run play stats, completely different animal and precisely why Pittsburgh took the Adams leap. He'll adjust to the RT position and be what he needs to be when we run the ball. He doesn't have to go against the top DE/LB pass rush at RT. All we need is for him to be marginal in pass protection and above average on the run. He fits the bill on the run.

 

As I'm sure you know the LT position is a different position. He'll do fine at RT and if he doesn't they'll cut him and plug someone else in...

You don't think DEs get moved around? He is what he is, a liability in the passing game and an above average run blocker with declining skills. He was at the top of the dung pile in free agent Tackles and was the best the Steelers could do. I was just trying to point out that your earlier statement about this line and the line they won the SB with were virtually the same was way off.

[Vagitron]

The problem is that who do you have to replace Adams? Hint, hint: There aren't all any. They all suck.

 

Trai Essex, Ramon Foster, Tony Hills. Someone can certainly step over there. Tony Hills played pretty well in the first preseason game. Pittsburgh always has someone to step in and that's the difference between Pittsburgh and a lot of teams.

[Vagitron]

You don't think DEs get moved around? He is what he is, a liability in the passing game and an above average run blocker with declining skills. He was at the top of the dung pile in free agent Tackles and was the best the Steelers could do. I was just trying to point out that your earlier statement about this line and the line they won the SB with were virtually the same was way off.

 

Way off? The only difference is no Willie Colon and the addition of a very promising rookie. The line will certainly be more gelled than last year and Sean Kugler appears to be one hell of a offensive line coach. He made something out of nothing in Buffalo and projects the Steelers smash mouth mentality. I'm glad people are doubting the Steelers. I can't say that enough at this point.

[The Gipper]

Trai Essex, Ramon Foster, Tony Hills. Someone can certainly step over there. Tony Hills played pretty well in the first preseason game. Pittsburgh always has someone to step in and that's the difference between Pittsburgh and a lot of teams.

 

What the difference is between Pittsburgh and a lot of teams is quite simply this: Dick LeBeau.

[Vagitron]

Yes, this "gentleman" only sees it one way: "Delhomme is over the hill and will be terrible" ...But....Adams will "settle in and adjust".

 

 

A QB and a offensive tackle are like trying to compare Kate Beckinsale to Barbara Walters based on level of attraction. One commands the offense the other is merely a part of one. Jake Delhomme is f.ucking terrible and if Adams is he'll get cut and we'll move someone else over. You're problem will be season long. Ours will is easily eliminated. Adams did not get a front loaded contract. We cut him it's of minimal consequence.

[Vagitron]

What the difference is between Pittsburgh and a lot of teams is quite simply this: Dick LeBeau.

 

 

lol oh really? Pittsburgh wins balls games because of Dick Lebeau and only because of Dick Lebeau? It has nothing to do with the talent laden roster and the coaching else where? You really are delusional. Dick Leabeau is the man but that defense is still a tremendous defense without Dick Lebeau BUT GET THIS we HAVE Dick Lebeau and he isn't going anywhere. I guess that means we'll continue to win and you'll continue to lose.

[bomber77]

Ravens 11-5

 

Browns 10-6

 

Bengals 7-9

 

Steelers 6-10

 

 

[Brownsfan_Althaus]

baltimore will take it,

then cinncinn will beat out the squealers.

then sadly, our brownies.

[SJ_Browns]

here's something to think about, in regards to ben and pittsburgh's oline issues. ben has about 3-4 nfl related concussions and 1 non nfl related concussion (motorcycle incident). how much more physical abuse will this guy get from being behind a suspect oline till he racks up one too many concussions? the nfl's new policies on concussions are very strict. a certain amount of concussions and you'll be forced to retire.

[sisky fringo]

i believe he'd invite that SJ.

 

hello paid vacation for life!!

[The Gipper]

A QB and a offensive tackle are like trying to compare Kate Beckinsale to Barbara Walters based on level of attraction. One commands the offense the other is merely a part of one. Jake Delhomme is f.ucking terrible and if Adams is he'll get cut and we'll move someone else over. You're problem will be season long. Ours will is easily eliminated. Adams did not get a front loaded contract. We cut him it's of minimal consequence.

 

Well, that is just your way of minimizing the problem you face.

Despite the potential difference of importance in the positions, the analysis is still the same. You think that Adams will adjust and settle in....simply because he is now a Steeler. You don't think Delhomme will adjust and settle in....simply because he is a Brown. That is the bottom line with you, pure and simple.

If Delhomme is terrible he'll get cut and we'll move someone else in. If Adams is terrible he may be cut and someone else moved in. If that is the case, your problem at RT will endure just as long as our problem at QB.

We believe we do have a competent backup to put in at QB right now. A semi-proven veteran. Can you say the same for your RT position?

Yes, the positions may not be of equal importance, but the analysis is the same.

[The Gipper]

lol oh really? Pittsburgh wins balls games because of Dick Lebeau and only because of Dick Lebeau? It has nothing to do with the talent laden roster and the coaching else where? You really are delusional. Dick Leabeau is the man but that defense is still a tremendous defense without Dick Lebeau BUT GET THIS we HAVE Dick Lebeau and he isn't going anywhere. I guess that means we'll continue to win and you'll continue to lose.

 

 

See, this is why I am a person of knowledge and experience and you're not: YES, except for maybe one or two players the talent on the Steelers defense has not been appreciably better really than the talent the Browns have had on defense over the years.

Those guys have performed so well BECAUSE they were coached by LeBeau.

Here is what I have seen and experienced in my days: The Browns of yore were greatly talented because they had Paul Brown coaching them. The Packers achieved what they achieved in the 60s because they had Lombardi coaching them. The Dolphins where so great because they had Shula coaching them, the same with the Cowboys with Landry, the 49ers with Walsh, the Steelers with Noll, the Patriots with Belichick. Do you think the Pats would have won 3 SBs plus appeared in another if Romeo Crennell had been their HC instead of BB? Coaching makes a tremendous amout of difference. LeBeau is perhaps considered the greatest Asst. coach/coordinator in history.

The sad thing is, you're right. LeBeau is there and he is not going anywhere....good for you. So, you need to realize how lucky you are.....and that is what the Steelers success partially comes down to: a little luck that you got him.

[pizzadeliveryguy]

See, this is why I am a person of knowledge and experience and you're not: YES, except for maybe one or two players the talent on the Steelers defense has not been appreciably better really than the talent the Browns have had on defense over the years.

Those guys have performed so well BECAUSE they were coached by LeBeau.

Here is what I have seen and experienced in my days: The Browns of yore were greatly talented because they had Paul Brown coaching them. The Packers achieved what they achieved in the 60s because they had Lombardi coaching them. The Dolphins where so great because they had Shula coaching them, the same with the Cowboys with Landry, the 49ers with Walsh, the Steelers with Noll, the Patriots with Belichick. Do you think the Pats would have won 3 SBs plus appeared in another if Romeo Crennell had been their HC instead of BB? Coaching makes a tremendous amout of difference. LeBeau is perhaps considered the greatest Asst. coach/coordinator in history.

The sad thing is, you're right. LeBeau is there and he is not going anywhere....good for you. So, you need to realize how lucky you are.....and that is what the Steelers success partially comes down to: a little luck that you got him.

I agree that coaching is a huge part of how a defense fares but to say that the Browns have had comparable talent to Pittsburgh over the last several years on defense is insane. No matter how good a coach you are, to have a premier defense you have to have the horses to pull the plow.

[samoth]

IMO Baltimore is the team to beat. I see Pittsburgh taking a big step back and Cicny not living up to expectations. browns will be improved, maybe playoffs, but not division champs.

[The Gipper]

I agree that coaching is a huge part of how a defense fares but to say that the Browns have had comparable talent to Pittsburgh over the last several years on defense is insane. No matter how good a coach you are, to have a premier defense you have to have the horses to pull the plow.

 

OK, they haven't quite had the same talent, but the disparity in performance is due to far more than the disparity in talent.

 

As I have said many times, LeBeau epitomizes the old statement made by Bum Phillips about Don Shula: "He can take his'n and beat your'n, or he can take your'n and beat his'n". LeBeau could have probably taken the talent that the Browns have had over the years and gotten them to play better than the talent he has had with the Steelers over the years...even though that talent the Steelers have had is/was innately better than that of the Browns.

[Vagitron]

I agree that coaching is a huge part of how a defense fares but to say that the Browns have had comparable talent to Pittsburgh over the last several years on defense is insane. No matter how good a coach you are, to have a premier defense you have to have the horses to pull the plow.

 

 

Thank god. We've obviously disagreed here and there but for the most part you've been completely objective with some homer mixed in which is usually what I project in my arguments. The Browns are in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM ANYWHERE CLOSE on the defensive side or the offensive side for that matter. It's not EVEN close and to insinuate that there is even a small comparison just about throws out any credibility you may have had before making that statement. (obviously directed at Gip here)

 

I don't think I need to break the roster down and if I did it would be downright shameful for you to even attempt to argue otherwise. Post that statement Gip on any other NFL message board and you'll be laughed right off it. You're a man of experience? Dream experience? alternate reality? Did you recently hit the new Harry Potter theme park in Universal? I'm making a joke of it but seriously. On what planet do the Browns have even half the talent the Steelers do defensively? The only player on your entire defense that could crack our starting lineup is Shaun Rogers and even then he'd split downs with Casey Hampton. There is no other starter on your "dream world" defense that would smell the field. Eric Wright would play Nickel and Joe Haden is unproven at this point.

[Vagitron]

OK, they haven't quite had the same talent, but the disparity in performance is due to far more than the disparity in talent.

 

As I have said many times, LeBeau epitomizes the old statement made by Bum Phillips about Don Shula: "He can take his'n and beat your'n, or he can take your'n and beat his'n". LeBeau could have probably taken the talent that the Browns have had over the years and gotten them to play better than the talent he has had with the Steelers over the years...even though that talent the Steelers have had is/was innately better than that of the Browns

.

 

 

Honestly what is wrong with you? Lebeau could have taken the Talent the Browns have and had more success with that roster than the Steelers roster? It's not close Gipper. It's not even close. You're talking about arguably the best LB corp in the NFL for one. One of the top 5 defensive lines in the NFL. Aaron Smith is arguably the best 3-4 defensive end in the league and Hampton is a top 5 defensive tackle. Keisel is a underrated high motor guy that fits Lebeau's system. (Player one that fit's your argument)

 

You then have Troy Polamalu arguably the best safety in the game and Ike Taylor who would make the pro-bowl routinely if he could catch the damn ball. Please if you'd like take the time to break down the Browns roster and then the Steelers roster and show me an area where a Brown would even crack the starting line up. The only areas where a possibility even exists and even then it's remote is corner opposite Ike and our nickel backs. No sane individual would ever make this argument ridiculous homer or not. Your making something out of nothing argument does not work AT ALL in this instance. You sound like a idiot. I guess maybe you are one.

[dawgpound3]

Honestly what is wrong with you? Lebeau could have taken the Talent the Browns have and had more success with that roster than the Steelers roster? It's not close Gipper. It's not even close. You're talking about arguably the best LB corp in the NFL for one. One of the top 5 defensive lines in the NFL. Aaron Smith is arguably the best 3-4 defensive end in the league and Hampton is a top 5 defensive tackle. Keisel is a underrated high motor guy that fits Lebeau's system. (Player one that fit's your argument)

 

You then have Troy Polamalu arguably the best safety in the game and Ike Taylor who would make the pro-bowl routinely if he could catch the damn ball. Please if you'd like take the time to break down the Browns roster and then the Steelers roster and show me an area where a Brown would even crack the starting line up. The only areas where a possibility even exists and even then it's remote is corner opposite Ike and our nickel backs. No sane individual would ever make this argument ridiculous homer or not. Your making something out of nothing argument does not work AT ALL in this instance. You sound like a idiot. I guess maybe you are one.

 

Offensive line, cornerbacks, defensive tackles, kick returners, running backs.

 

These are all position where the Browns would compete with the Stoolers.

[dawgpound3]

I agree that coaching is a huge part of how a defense fares but to say that the Browns have had comparable talent to Pittsburgh over the last several years on defense is insane. No matter how good a coach you are, to have a premier defense you have to have the horses to pull the plow.

 

Good point, pizzadeliveryguy but did ever notice that once the Steelers' players leave for a another team, they are not as good... Hmm, I wonder why.... Dick Lebeau certainly has something to do with it.

[pizzadeliveryguy]

Good point, pizzadeliveryguy but did ever notice that once the Steelers' players leave for a another team, they are not as good... Hmm, I wonder why.... Dick Lebeau certainly has something to do with it.

Do you have any stats to back that up? I'm not saying you are wrong but I am honestly curious now. The only one that I checked out was Porter and he put up better numbers after he left the Steelers.

[Vagitron]

Good point, pizzadeliveryguy but did ever notice that once the Steelers' players leave for a another team, they are not as good... Hmm, I wonder why.... Dick Lebeau certainly has something to do with it.

 

How many players leave the Steelers in the prime of their career? Not many.

 

And Dawgpound the primary argument was Defense and dick Lebeau. Running backs? lol based on what exactly? Harrison running over sh.it defenses when the game was/is clearly out of hand. Mendenhall is a much better RB than anyone on your roster. DT is a complete and total wash. Cornerback is debatable and I've never argued offensive line. You have two first round picks on your line. I'm not sure where Steinbech was drafted by the bungles.

[pizzadeliveryguy]

Running backs? lol based on what exactly? Harrison running over sh.it defenses when the game was/is clearly out of hand. Mendenhall is a much better RB than anyone on your roster.

Not so much. Against like opponents in 2009.......

 

Harrison (4 games KC,Oak,Cin,Balt.)

 

Average = 29.5-151.75-1

 

 

Mendenhall (5 Games KC, Oak, Cin, Balt x2)

 

Average = 19-70-.4

 

The Browns lost two of those (one was a blowout) and the other two were wins but fairly close. So let's take off the Homer glasses, put on our big boy pants, and back up statements with some tangible facts.

[The Gipper]

Honestly what is wrong with you? Lebeau could have taken the Talent the Browns have and had more success with that roster than the Steelers roster? It's not close Gipper. It's not even close.

 

Actually, I see that I misspoke there. What I meant to say is that LeBeau could have taken the talent the Browns have had and had more success with that talent than most other coaches could have with the talent the Steelers have on their roster...even though the Steelers have more innate talent.

 

 

 

You're talking about arguably the best LB corp in the NFL for one. One of the top 5 defensive lines in the NFL. Aaron Smith is arguably the best 3-4 defensive end in the league and Hampton is a top 5 defensive tackle. Keisel is a underrated high motor guy that fits Lebeau's system. (Player one that fit's your argument)

 

Actually, I think all those players fit my argument. Those guys are one of the best LBs corps or best DL lines precisely because LeBeau is their coordinator. Put Todd Grantham in charge of them and what do you have? Some pretty good players sure, but probably not ones that play up to Pro Bowl caliber.

 

You then have Troy Polamalu arguably the best safety in the game and Ike Taylor who would make the pro-bowl routinely if he could catch the damn ball. Please if you'd like take the time to break down the Browns roster and then the Steelers roster and show me an area where a Brown would even crack the starting line up.

 

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. LeBeau gets these guy to play as a whole, not as just a bunch of individuals.

I am saying if you took LeBeau and gave them the Browns defensive talent the last few years, he could have gotten that bunch to play at a higher level as a whole than the collection of Steeler talent would have probably performed under a different coach... The only areas where a possibility even exists and even then it's remote is corner opposite Ike and our nickel backs. No sane individual would ever make this argument ridiculous homer or not. Your making something out of nothing argument does not work AT ALL in this instance. You sound like a idiot. I guess maybe you are one.

 

No, like I said, I just misspoke, and recognized my error, and corrected it. Something you would probably never be feign to do.

 

[The Gipper]

Offensive line, cornerbacks, defensive tackles, kick returners, running backs.

 

These are all position where the Browns would compete with the Stoolers.

 

We were just talking about the defense.

But if you want, sure we could break down the whole team. However, I am not that totally familiar with the entire Steeler lineup to make a full and complete comparison. I can do it at a few positions. Others would have to fill in:

 

QB BR vs. Delhomme. Yes, overall BR would get the nod.

 

FB I don't know who the Steeler FB is, but I can't imagine he is better than Vickers

 

RB I think pretty even. Jerome Harrison showed his obvious capabilities at the end of last year. Mendenhall had better overall numbers...but he also had more opportunities. Note this: last year the Browns had the 8th best running game in the NFL, the Steelers the 19th.

 

TE Heath Miller is a more proven TE than the corps the Browns have.

 

WR Hines Ward alone obviously gives the Steelers the edge over the Browns green bunch.

 

OL Overall I believe the Browns have the far superior, proven unit. Individually, right now the Browns are better at LT, LG, and C. Though Pouncey is the Steelers 1st round choice he still has to prove it. Mack has done so in his short time here.

At RG and RT it might be debatable. Both lines are in flux with question marke at RT. I don't know who the Steelers have at RG, but the Browns I believe have a rookie penciled in as their starter there.

 

NT Hampton and Rodgers are a pretty even matchup there....if Rodgers gets his butt on the field. Our other guy Ahtya Rubin is no slouch, but is not as proven as Hampton

 

DEs Aaron Smith, if healthy has proven better than anyone we have. Don't know about the other side. Please fill in

 

LBs The Steelers obviously have had the more proven performers with the likes of Harrison and Woodley etc. The Browns have made several additions to this corps which will hopefully improve what has been a woefully underachieving bunch in the past.

 

DBs Polamalu (healthy) of course gives the Steelers the edge. Please assist with the other positions. The Robo/Homo says Ike Taylor is a borderline Pro Bowler. Perhaps....but just about anything the Steelers had back there couldn't have been worse than what the Browns had. Eric Wright is decent, but beyond that it is a crapshoot for the Browns. There is a reason they drafted 3 DBs including 1st and 2d rounders. Thus, at this point the Browns may be relying on the performance of 3 rookies.

 

Special teamers:

 

K Dawson is a gamer. Reed is very good. Pretty even here.

 

P With Zastudil out for the year you have to give the edge to Sepulveda over Hodges

 

LS (Long Snapper) Browns Pontbriand is one of the best in the game. Not sure what the Steelers have

 

KR/PR Josh Cribbs. 'Nuff said.

 

Kick coverages. I believe the Browns have been significantly superior in this realm, at least last year they were.

 

Coaching. Hard to argue about a guy who has won a SB as a HC, but, as I have stated, I believe the real edge here goes to LeBeau at DC. Perhaps the best assistant coach ever. And Arians vs. Daboll? Pick em.

 

I will rely on you all to fill in some other details.

[The Gipper]

On Mendenhall and Harrison, here are the stats:

 

Mendenhall 16 games, 242 carries for 1108 yards, 7 TDs, 4.6 y/c, 69.3 y/g

.....................25 catches for 261 yards, 10. y/r

 

Harrison 14 games, 194 carries for 862 yards, 5 TDs, 4.4 y/c, 61.6 y/g

.................... 34 catches for 220 yards, 6.5 y/r

 

Remember of course that for most of the year Harrison was not the featured back, he was the "Third down" back. Jamal Lewis was. Lewis had almost as many carries as Harrison. For the Steelers, Willie Parker was second on the team in carries with only 98 totes.

The Browns also gave a lot more carries to their 3rd and 4th backs: Jennings and Cribbs.

Who knows what Harrison may have done as a featured back for an entire year. We may see this year.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

1. Baltimore 12-4

 

 

2. Cincy 10-6

 

 

3. Cleveland 9-7

 

 

4. Pittsburgh 5-11

 

Sorry but your franchise has gone to shit.

LOL..You will be SORELY Disappointed. That makes about the 5th time I have heard this rhetoric from you guys since the Yr Y2K. But sleep on sleeper.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

I think this sounds about right, though I might switch Pitt and Cinci, though that is not a big switch. No Wild Cards out of this division I don't believe.

Pitt and Cinncy could well Switch places. A decent start by Leftwich could result in 10 wins... as Could a decent start by Jake D . and Carson and his prima donna (Thanks) Receivers. I really see the Division as being pretty Wide open.. The RATS are in the best shape to start off however.