PSA

[pizzadeliveryguy]

People need to take a deep breath and relax. There is no featured back on this team.

 

Jerome Harrison is not the answer. He is a nice weapon to have but he is not a chain mover. 6 of his 9 runs went for -4,0,1,1,1,2 yards yesterday and people are screaming for him to get more touches. Now I do agree that our RBs in general should have had more carries but in no way should Harrison be the workhorse. On to Hillis. He looked very strong yesterday. But there is the elephant in the room. The 2 fumbles, the second one in my opinion hurt worse than the Delhomme Int.. I'm willing to give him a pass due to not having a history of fumbling problems. Fact is, if he doesn't fumble the second time and the Browns take it in as it looked like they would, Harrison would be an afterthought today.

 

This is a running back by committee and unless Hillis keeps fumbling he should be getting a few more carries than Harrison. I think in a perfect world the attempts should break down something like Hillis-16 Harrison-12 Cribbs-5

[WebsterSlaughter]

People need to take a deep breath and relax. There is no featured back on this team.

 

Jerome Harrison is not the answer. He is a nice weapon to have but he is not a chain mover. 6 of his 9 runs went for -4,0,1,1,1,2 yards yesterday and people are screaming for him to get more touches. Now I do agree that our RBs in general should have had more carries but in no way should Harrison be the workhorse. On to Hillis. He looked very strong yesterday. But there is the elephant in the room. The 2 fumbles, the second one in my opinion hurt worse than the Delhomme Int.. I'm willing to give him a pass due to not having a history of fumbling problems. Fact is, if he doesn't fumble the second time and the Browns take it in as it looked like they would, Harrison would be an afterthought today.

 

This is a running back by committee and unless Hillis keeps fumbling he should be getting a few more carries than Harrison. I think in a perfect world the attempts should break down something like Hillis-16 Harrison-12 Cribbs-5

 

 

What has Harrison done to not deserve the most carries on the team? How many yards did Hillis have last year? Who carried the browns to 3 straight victories while averaging over 30 carries a game? Harrison average 4.9 YPC for his career. Why does he not get more carries. All he does is have big games every time he starts. Take a look at his game log. This article sums it up nicely.

 

The "Jerome Harrison Hate" Continues in Cleveland

[pizzadeliveryguy]

What has Harrison done to not deserve the most carries on the team? How many yards did Hillis have last year? Who carried the browns to 3 straight victories while averaging over 30 carries a game? Harrison average 4.9 YPC for his career. Why does he not get more carries. All he does is have big games every time he starts. Take a look at his game log. This article sums it up nicely.

 

The "Jerome Harrison Hate" Continues in Cleveland

Think about this. In 2 of the 3 games that you are using as your examples he averaged 3.79 and 3.85. That is not good. Using his career YPC isn't a very good strategy either. A lot of those yards were in garbage time or as a 3rd down back and are inflated. Take a look at the numbers of players like K. Faulk or Sproles to see what happens when an ill equipped RB tries to carry the load. Their YPC goes from mid 5s to mid 3s.

[WebsterSlaughter]

Think about this. In 2 of the 3 games that you are using as your examples he averaged 3.79 and 3.85. That is not good. Using his career YPC isn't a very good strategy either. A lot of those yards were in garbage time or as a 3rd down back and are inflated. Take a look at the numbers of players like K. Faulk or Sproles to see what happens when an ill equipped RB tries to carry the load. Their YPC goes from mid 5s to mid 3s.

 

All those games were wins buddy. Plus we had absolutely no passing game to speak of. Yet he helped us win those games. He is not Sproles or K. Faulk. He can carry the load. Hillis is the guy who is a gimmick.

[pizzadeliveryguy]

Hillis is the guy who is a gimmick.

How so?

[Gips]

We are RB by daboll/mangini committee whichever ones they feel help the team the most in certain situations...but its obvious mangini dislikes jerome for some reason and you can see it in both their eyes and actions toward each other, harrison looks like an angry orphan and mangini looks like his abusive overlord, mangini is weird like that and we need a better coach not so much better talent..

 

Dont bite the lies and deceit as this season not so slowly reveals the truth....

[pizzadeliveryguy]

We are RB by daboll/mangini committee whichever ones they feel help the team the most in certain situations...but its obvious mangini dislikes jerome for some reason and you can see it in both their eyes and actions toward each other, harrison looks like an angry orphan and mangini looks like is abusive overlord, mangini is weird like that and we need a better coach not so much better talent..

 

Dont bite the lies and deceit as this season not so slowly reveals the truth....

Sounds like you are posting with an agenda. I love how people are already willing to ditch Mangini and Delhomme. It is like most Browns fans are addicted to instability. Let's try another coach, that way we can get rid of him sometime next year and move on to the next coach.

[WebsterSlaughter]

How so?

 

Hillis never produced the numbers Harrison produced in college. Harrison in 3 games last year had more carries that Hillis has had his entire career. I am much more comfortable having Harrison as the feature back. He is more proven and should be getting more carries. Plus Harrison does not have a fumble problem.

[pizzadeliveryguy]

I am much more comfortable having Harrison as the feature back.

Here is your problem. You are trying to find a feature back out of these options. It isn't possible. It is a RBBC pure and simple.

[ClevelandBigDawg]

In all honesty, I dont think we are utilizing Harrison the right way. He needs screens, and tosses to go outside the tackles. Otherwise the OL has to make a hole. He is just to good in space to not try to get it to him in space.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

This is the most ridiculous argument ever.

 

We clearly have the RBBC personnel. Some days Harrison will get the rock 25, 30 times a game. Other times he might never really see the field. It's all about matchups. A big physical runningback is going to beat a speed defense nine times out of ten, and a speedy back will beat a bulky defense just as many times.

 

Tampa Bay had an extremely fast defense with tremendous lateral speed. Harrison would have been stuffed more often than not around the edges. The only way to beat a fast defense is to run right up the gut, and that's what Hillis is for.

 

 

The playcalling was good, the gameplan was fine. We just needed to work out the kinks.

 

 

Harrison is NOT a feature back, no matter how much of a homer you are for him. I'm the biggest James Davis homer on this board, but I know he's better in a 2 back system than as an everydown back. Just accept it, and stop trying to push your boy in detriment to the good of the team. I believe Mangini and co. know a little more about the personnel decisions than you do, whether you want to think so or not.

[WebsterSlaughter]

This is the most ridiculous argument ever.

 

We clearly have the RBBC personnel. Some days Harrison will get the rock 25, 30 times a game. Other times he might never really see the field. It's all about matchups. A big physical runningback is going to beat a speed defense nine times out of ten, and a speedy back will beat a bulky defense just as many times.

 

Tampa Bay had an extremely fast defense with tremendous lateral speed. Harrison would have been stuffed more often than not around the edges. The only way to beat a fast defense is to run right up the gut, and that's what Hillis is for.

 

 

The playcalling was good, the gameplan was fine. We just needed to work out the kinks.

 

 

Harrison is NOT a feature back, no matter how much of a homer you are for him. I'm the biggest James Davis homer on this board, but I know he's better in a 2 back system than as an everydown back. Just accept it, and stop trying to push your boy in detriment to the good of the team. I believe Mangini and co. know a little more about the personnel decisions than you do, whether you want to think so or not.

 

Our most effective running was done last year when we gave Harrison 20+ carries. The results do not lie. You cant expect a 40 yard gain on every play, but you have to get him his carries. Plus he didn't fumble the ball twice on 9 carries. That is unacceptable. And I'm willing to bet i do know more than Mangini about personnel decisions. Football is not rocket science, basic engineering or even chess. It is not that difficult to understand, and you do not need special intelligence or a university degree to coach football.

[hoorta]

This is the most ridiculous argument ever.

 

We clearly have the RBBC personnel. Some days Harrison will get the rock 25, 30 times a game. Other times he might never really see the field. It's all about matchups. A big physical runningback is going to beat a speed defense nine times out of ten, and a speedy back will beat a bulky defense just as many times.

 

Tampa Bay had an extremely fast defense with tremendous lateral speed. Harrison would have been stuffed more often than not around the edges. The only way to beat a fast defense is to run right up the gut, and that's what Hillis is for.

 

 

The playcalling was good, the gameplan was fine. We just needed to work out the kinks.

 

Yup, Tampa didn't beat the Browns yesterday, the Browns beat themselves. Error free game and Cleveland wins that game going away.

 

[pizzadeliveryguy]

Hillis never produced the numbers Harrison produced in college.

Also, Hillis was on the same team With Felix Jones and Darren McFadden for Christ's sake.

[miktoxic]

isn't hillis a FB? why isn't he blowing up holes for harrison? if you want power running have more than 2 backs in the backfield. did davis even get a touch yesterday?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Our most effective running was done last year when we gave Harrison 20+ carries. The results do not lie. You cant expect a 40 yard gain on every play, but you have to get him his carries. Plus he didn't fumble the ball twice on 9 carries. That is unacceptable. And I'm willing to bet i do know more than Mangini about personnel decisions. Football is not rocket science, basic engineering or even chess. It is not that difficult to understand, and you do not need special intelligence or a university degree to coach football.

 

Yes, that was our most effective running. And once again, that running was against Jacksonville, Oakland, and Kansas City. Those teams finished 19th, 28th, and 31st in rush defense in the league, respectively.

 

And don't flatter yourself. People are so quick to belittle Mangini, but he's an NFL head coach. He's making six figures on Sundays, and you're stuck at home bitching about him online. If you honestly believe you can do better, then by all means go up to Berea and sit in on a practice. Offer your two cents.

 

There are millions of men in America who think they can coach better than the pros. They're called armchair quarterbacks, and you're just one of them.

 

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

isn't hillis a FB? why isn't he blowing up holes for harrison? if you want power running have more than 2 backs in the backfield. did davis even get a touch yesterday?

 

Lawrence Vickers is the best FB in the game. Hillis won't start over him.

[miktoxic]

Lawrence Vickers is the best FB in the game. Hillis won't start over him.

 

did they play him?

 

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

did they play him?

 

Yeah. He was the FB in every I form or split back formation. We ran a jumbo set all day with Vick and Hillis.

[kosar_win]

Tim Couch Pulls Out deserves a special thanks for his comments on this thread. Thank you, Tim.

 

[thesmartkid]

All those games were wins buddy. Plus we had absolutely no passing game to speak of. Yet he helped us win those games. He is not Sproles or K. Faulk. He can carry the load. Hillis is the guy who is a gimmick.

 

 

 

YOU ARE THE ONLY GUY ON THIS BOARD THAT DESERVES A CHANCE TO SPEAK, XXXX HILLIS HE'S GARBAGE JEROME IS AN HAS BEEN THE ANSWER FOR A LONG TIME NOW

[WebsterSlaughter]

Yes, that was our most effective running. And once again, that running was against Jacksonville, Oakland, and Kansas City. Those teams finished 19th, 28th, and 31st in rush defense in the league, respectively.

 

And don't flatter yourself. People are so quick to belittle Mangini, but he's an NFL head coach. He's making six figures on Sundays, and you're stuck at home bitching about him online. If you honestly believe you can do better, then by all means go up to Berea and sit in on a practice. Offer your two cents.

 

There are millions of men in America who think they can coach better than the pros. They're called armchair quarterbacks, and you're just one of them.

 

And I do believe Tampa was horrible against the run last year. They allowed 4.8 YPC. So why not run Jerome Harrison at least 20 times. And there plenty of people who could handle personnel better than Mangini. Getting into pro coaching is all about connections, not how smart you are. A smart person would never have jacked up the QB situation last year the way Mangini did. There are hundreds of people who knew that was a bad idea, yet they aren't getting paid big money. There's a reason we hire sports columnists to second guess sports coaches, because its not complicated. On the other hand when is the last time you read a newspaper column criticizing design calculations for a jet fighter. Never. Because most people don't have that expertise. Stop acting like football is complicated.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

And I do believe Tampa was horrible against the run last year. They allowed 4.8 YPC. So why not run Jerome Harrison at least 20 times. And there plenty of people who could handle personnel better than Mangini. Getting into pro coaching is all about connections, not how smart you are. A smart person would never have jacked up the QB situation last year the way Mangini did. There are hundreds of people who knew that was a bad idea, yet they aren't getting paid big money. There's a reason we hire sports columnists to second guess sports coaches, because its not complicated. On the other hand when is the last time you read a newspaper column criticizing design calculations for a jet fighter. Never. Because most people don't have that expertise. Stop acting like football is complicated.

 

 

I never once acted like football is complicated. You're just acting like you're the next boy genius, when in reality you're just an armchair quarterback. Believe it or not, I'm quite well learned in football, and I know that you are severely underestimating what it takes to run a professional football team. If you think it's all sunshine and giggles, go right ahead and be my guest. It's not rocket science, but it's not just looking at a guy and saying "Hey, you're fast. You had yards against shit teams. I like you, you be the starter."

 

 

Giving Jerome the rock 20 times against Tampa Bay could have given him 200 yards. Or, which is more likely, it would have given him around 60 yards.

 

Hindsight is 20/20. Stop acting like you're a xxxxing genius.

[hoorta]

And I do believe Tampa was horrible against the run last year. They allowed 4.8 YPC. So why not run Jerome Harrison at least 20 times. And there plenty of people who could handle personnel better than Mangini. Getting into pro coaching is all about connections, not how smart you are. A smart person would never have jacked up the QB situation last year the way Mangini did. There are hundreds of people who knew that was a bad idea, yet they aren't getting paid big money. There's a reason we hire sports columnists to second guess sports coaches, because its not complicated. On the other hand when is the last time you read a newspaper column criticizing design calculations for a jet fighter. Never. Because most people don't have that expertise. Stop acting like football is complicated.

 

Well you can say uncomplicated if you wish- but mind bogglingly detailed. Each player gets critiqued on every freaking play, and opponents are scouted for the slightest tendencies that will give you an advantage. Probably isn't a HC in the NFL that doesn't put in a minimum 16 hour day, seven days a week during the season. Those guys earn their money.

 

[WebsterSlaughter]

I never once acted like football is complicated. You're just acting like you're the next boy genius, when in reality you're just an armchair quarterback. Believe it or not, I'm quite well learned in football, and I know that you are severely underestimating what it takes to run a professional football team. If you think it's all sunshine and giggles, go right ahead and be my guest. It's not rocket science, but it's not just looking at a guy and saying "Hey, you're fast. You had yards against shit teams. I like you, you be the starter."

 

 

Giving Jerome the rock 20 times against Tampa Bay could have given him 200 yards. Or, which is more likely, it would have given him around 60 yards.

 

Hindsight is 20/20. Stop acting like you're a xxxxing genius.

 

He had 9 carries for 52 yards. If you do the math that's better than 5.0 YPC. So what makes you think he would carry 20 times for 60 yards. You don't seem to be well learned in football to me buddy. Last time i checked 5 YPC is pretty good. So why not give him the ball more? Making football more complicated than what it has to be is why Coaches fail. It's not that difficult.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

He had 9 carries for 52 yards. If you do the math that's better than 5.0 YPC. So what makes you think he would carry 20 times for 60 yards. You don't seem to be well learned in football to me buddy. Last time i checked 5 YPC is pretty good. So why not give him the ball more? Making football more complicated than what it has to be is why Coaches fail. It's not that difficult.

 

And one of those runs was a 40 yard run. Take that run out, and he's got 8 carries for 12 yards. He got stuffed the entire day, except for one lucky run he broke. Whereas Hillis was picking up yards every time he touched the ball. He didn't break open for any real big gains, but he moved the chains. And that's what you want when you're up by only a score in the second half. Ball control offense, look it up.

[WebsterSlaughter]

And one of those runs was a 40 yard run. Take that run out, and he's got 8 carries for 12 yards. He got stuffed the entire day, except for one lucky run he broke. Whereas Hillis was picking up yards every time he touched the ball. He didn't break open for any real big gains, but he moved the chains. And that's what you want when you're up by only a score in the second half. Ball control offense, look it up.

 

Your a moron. Hillis had two fumbles, including one that cost us the game. Fumbling isn't part of ball control offense sir. Harrison had no trouble moving the chains while averaging 30+ carries with no passing game to speak of. When has Hillis shown he can do that? And even guys like Chris Johnson don't break long ones every time. He had half of his yards on one play against the Raiders. You have to give running backs their carries for them to be effective.

[next2nothing]

Your a moron. Hillis had two fumbles, including one that cost us the game. Fumbling isn't part of ball control offense sir. Harrison had no trouble moving the chains while averaging 30+ carries with no passing game to speak of. When has Hillis shown he can do that? And even guys like Chris Johnson don't break long ones every time. He had half of his yards on one play against the Raiders. You have to give running backs their carries for them to be effective.

Not trying to take blame off Hillis for fumbling but his fumbles were caused by two great hits, just sayin.

 

If anything cost us the game it was the INT before halftime. We're up 14 - 3 going in at half and we were moving the ball. That INT swung momentum and the Bucs didn't look back.

[pizzadeliveryguy]

Not trying to take blame off Hillis for fumbling but his fumbles were caused by two great hits, just sayin.

 

If anything cost us the game it was the INT before halftime. We're up 14 - 3 going in at half and we were moving the ball. That INT swung momentum and the Bucs didn't look back.

While they both were big, the fumble was the back breaker.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Your a moron. Hillis had two fumbles, including one that cost us the game. Fumbling isn't part of ball control offense sir. Harrison had no trouble moving the chains while averaging 30+ carries with no passing game to speak of. When has Hillis shown he can do that? And even guys like Chris Johnson don't break long ones every time. He had half of his yards on one play against the Raiders. You have to give running backs their carries for them to be effective.

 

 

And Harrison would have fumbled the ball just like Hillis did. I don't understand why people are so quick to blame him for fumbling, yet are reluctant to give credit to the guy who caused the fumble. It's not like he just dropped the ball, Tampa Bay had players putting their hat on the ball. Nobody would have held onto that ball, Harrison included.

 

And the fumble certainly didn't cost us the game. No one play determines a game. Once again, hindsight is 20/20. If Harrison isn't getting carries, even though he's this supposed God you claim he is, there must be another reason.

 

I hate supposed fans who put players before the team. They're called homers, and they're all douchebags.