The Gipper Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 A Question to Ask is: Is This Team Making Progress? Here are the scores of the first 5 games of 2009: 20-34 Loss to Minnesota 6-27 Loss to Denver 3-34 Loss to Baltimore 20-23 Loss to Cincinnati 6-3 Win over Buffalo Compare to 2010's scores for the first 5 games: 14-17 Loss to Tampa Bay 14-16 Loss to Kansas City 17-24 Loss to Baltimore 23-20 Win over Cincinnati 10-20 Loss to Atlanta In the 4 losses in 2009 the average margin of points lost by were 17.5 points. In the 4 losses in 2010 the average margin of points lost by are 5.5. The glass half full types would say that the Browns have improved by a full 12 point average differential per game over last year, and that every team the Browns have played so far have either a 4-1 or 3-1 record. Is that a reasonable way to look at this? And should it be a cause for optimism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowe Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Yes sir! This team IS improving and the fanbase needs to remain patient. Like the rest of you guys, I HATE losing. I never get used to it, and it hurts just as much every single week. But the bright spots are there. Our defense has improved. We are playing competitive football. We have had chances to win every single game so far this year. That is so much better than last season where we were blown out by the second quarter.. Give this coaching staff some time. They are making due with the little talent they have. I wish we were drafting better, but we have seen a few gems come out of the Mangini era (Ward/Haden/Mack will be studs someday) We need a wide receiver and a quarterback, and once we get those this looks like it could be a dominant power-running team. AFC NORTH FOOTBALL BABY! And with the way we have played physical with all our opponents we are no longer the creampuff of this division. We may be a victory to the Ravens and the Steelers, but we sure as hell don't go down without a fight anymore. I look for this team to be winning the close games by the end of the season (depending on our QB's health) and next season I look for them to take the next step to win some damn football games. The losses have stung much less this year knowing that we are not a laughing stock...knowing that we are competing with 1 loss teams. GO BROWNS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Also, no one thought before the season started Kansas City and Tampa were going to be that good at this point. OTOH, We did draft after they did, and we have the four losses. Yeah, mistakes and bad luck are killing the Browns. Shoulda, coulda- couple less breakdowns and it's the Browns who are 4-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Sure they are! They have been in every game and they are losing because of a host of small things: Short on talent Short on time in the new system Short on coaching These things will all slowly come together producing a 5-6 win season and promise for next year. Problem is................. They have a system for the first time in forever but it is all unknown just how good that system can be. With no shake up or change, they will surely become a .500 team in the next few years but is the combination of coaching and system good enough to go beyond that?.......................only time will tell. They still have a dipship for an owner. Believe it or not, I am not that concerned about the HC. It is the OC that concerns me most. And yes, they are short on talent in a variety of areas. Certain area have been improve: DBs, OL. Some areas have glaring issues: QB, WR, DL pass rush. And as long as the owner shuts up and pays the bills, who cares? It is the person running the football operations that counts. The biggest dipshit owner perhaps in NFL history even got his team to win a SB...can you say Art Modell....though that is really a misnomer because Modell was reall NOT the beneficial owner of that team, Biscotti was. Modell was simply being allowed to hang on while the seat was warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gafreleets Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 making progress? only in cleveland. you guys "progress" is like being "a little less dead". i guess in stainland you gotta take what you can get. "0-16!!!!!! but we lost every game by only 1 point!!!! that's progress out the wazooo!!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClevelandSound Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Yes we could easily say "we should be 5-0 or 4-1". A lot of factors in games haven't bounced our way. But this is a massive improvement and I don't think anyones going to be able to tell until later in the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownIndian Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 making progress? only in cleveland. you guys "progress" is like being "a little less dead". i guess in stainland you gotta take what you can get. "0-16!!!!!! but we lost every game by only 1 point!!!! that's progress out the wazooo!!!!" We are 1 - 4, while we were 0 - 5 last year at this point. That would mean progress across the entire universe except in Gafreleets land. You are the type of dumb band-wagoner that the Steeler fandom or any intelligent fan base do not need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gafreleets Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 We are 1 - 4, while we were 0 - 5 last year at this point. That would mean progress across the entire universe except in Gafreleets land. You are the type of dumb band-wagoner that the Steeler fandom or any intelligent fan base do not need. maybe we just have a different definition of "progress". have you manage to win one game of your first 5? yes. is it gonna matter at the end of the season? probably not. are you guys contenders for a championship? most definately not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownIndian Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 maybe we just have a different definition of "progress". have you manage to win one game of your first 5? yes. is it gonna matter at the end of the season? probably not. are you guys contenders for a championship? most definately not. fair enough . The games we are playing this year are far more entertaining and close. Although we are on the losing side we give it more than a fight and sometimes when I reflect on the game it seems as though with a little bit of If's and But's we might have won the game. That was never the case last year. Also the players and the product on the field is much better than what we had last year. As much as we Browns fans argue about the Delhomme or Wallace issue, we are glad to have that problem than the Anderson / Quinn debate. Also we have less holes to fill than last year. Sure we are not playoff caliber yet but, before we learn to run we gotta learn to walk .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 You can't make that claim about Modell. He was the scapegoat victim of the city of Cleveland's infinite stupidity. Don't f**king even bring your ignorance and stupidity to bear here on that subject. The reason my comment about Lerner being a dipshit is relative is because the big name guy who may be needed to replace Mangini simply isn't going to come work for a dipshit owner is a shithole city. History proves this to be correct. More complete and utter ignorance. There are only 32 NFL jobs available, and in any given year only a handful. IF a coach is going to make himself available for a job, they they will look to any job that might be available. IF Mangini were to be replaced, then the list of candidates for the Browns job would be le creme de la creme of whomever is out there: Gruden, Cowher, you name it. The only caveat's are that Gruden might actually want to become the next John Madden and make his name in the annoucing venue and not the coaching venue. Cowher could be the same....or he may want to be what Holmgren was in Seattle...King of the Castle. Coach and GM. Though I don't think that is a good idea, some of these guys may still want that. Cowher isn't going to get that in Cleveland now, but he could possibly get it in say, Buffalo or Carolina. Ownership or the city wouldn't be the issue. Gruden is FROM NE Ohio..Sandusky. Cowher of course played here. They all know the quality of Cleveland as a football town. Cowher might prefer Carolina because he has certain roots there, but if he wanted to get back into coaching, and Carolina were not available and Cleveland was, he would not hesitate to come here. The same would basically be true for anyone else not mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 making progress? only in cleveland. you guys "progress" is like being "a little less dead". i guess in stainland you gotta take what you can get. "0-16!!!!!! but we lost every game by only 1 point!!!! that's progress out the wazooo!!!!" Well, in a way, it would be if the season before you lost every game by 20 points. The fact is, last year the Browns were getting blown out of games by an average of 17.5 points a game. Now it is only 5.5 pts. per game. And they have had the lead in the 4th quarter of every game, where last year they were out of it at halftime. So, they are being more competitive, if not actually turning around the scoreboard. They have had their chances now, where last year they had no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 If if's and but were candies and nuts, every day would be Christmas. The 49ers, Panthers, Bill, and Lions could say the same thing. Actually, the Lions are for real, they have played tough teams and battled with them pretty nicely! So, uh, are you saying that teams that have 3-1, 3-1,4-1, and 3-1 records are not tough teams? And that losing by 3-2-7-10 point isn't "battling" them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 fair enough . The games we are playing this year are far more entertaining and close. Although we are on the losing side we give it more than a fight and sometimes when I reflect on the game it seems as though with a little bit of If's and But's we might have won the game. That was never the case last year. Also the players and the product on the field is much better than what we had last year. As much as we Browns fans argue about the Delhomme or Wallace issue, we are glad to have that problem than the Anderson / Quinn debate. Also we have less holes to fill than last year. Sure we are not playoff caliber yet but, before we learn to run we gotta learn to walk .... Note this: In 3 games this year the Browns have given up an Interception for a TD which have essentially been the margin of loss in each game. The Browns offense has practically had as many points scored on it as the Browns defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 You can't make that claim about Modell. He was the scapegoat victim of the city of Cleveland's infinite stupidity. Don't f**king even bring your ignorance and stupidity to bear here on that subject. Touch a nerve with some reality you don't want to admit? No, its just that it is so old and wrong that it is hardly worth wasting breath over. The reason my comment about Lerner being a dipshit is relative is because the big name guy who may be needed to replace Mangini simply isn't going to come work for a dipshit owner is a shithole city. History proves this to be correct. More complete and utter ignorance. There are only 32 NFL jobs available, and in any given year only a handful. IF a coach is going to make himself available for a job, they they will look to any job that might be available. IF Mangini were to be replaced, then the list of candidates for the Browns job would be le creme de la creme of whomever is out there: Gruden, Cowher, you name it. The only caveat's are that Gruden might actually want to become the next John Madden and make his name in the annoucing venue and not the coaching venue. Cowher could be the same....or he may want to be what Holmgren was in Seattle...King of the Castle. Coach and GM. Though I don't think that is a good idea, some of these guys may still want that. Cowher isn't going to get that in Cleveland now, but he could possibly get it in say, Buffalo or Carolina. Ownership or the city wouldn't be the issue. Gruden is FROM NE Ohio..Sandusky. Cowher of course played here. They all know the quality of Cleveland as a football town. Cowher might prefer Carolina because he has certain roots there, but if he wanted to get back into coaching, and Carolina were not available and Cleveland was, he would not hesitate to come here. The same would basically be true for anyone else not mentioned. Really? Give it up..........Cleveland will NEVER see a top named coach here.....NEVER. Want proof? look back at your history! You are so cute when you get your panties in a bunch! You're a hoot dude Yes, sure I want proof. From you. Please, by all means relate the "history" that you refer to. I am unaware of what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 WOW.....you need to put down the Geritol! That's not even close to what I said. Then clarify exactly what it is you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 more season Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Whether you consider this season progress or not with either Colt or Brett possibly starting against the Steelers it doesn't look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gipper Posted October 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Go back to post #15, it's stated pretty clear there. Actually, Post #15 was made by me. Perhaps you meant post #8. Since things were not clear at all, perhaps I will simply start over with a simple question: Do you believe that the Browns have played some tough teams thus far and do you believe they have battled them nicely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Do you believe that the Browns have played some tough teams thus far and do you believe they have battled them nicely? i know this question was directed to stone but i'll chime in quickly: IMO i think cincy sucks, tampa and kc are playing above their heads and the ravens and atlanta are at the tops of their divisions. we played all these teams tough and there should be a couple of more wins in our favor. that's no excuse though. there are some glaring weaknesses on this team. no pass rush, some soft play in the secondary (not our rookies) to date our qb play is not up to par and we have no receivers. but we are making progress. just win some games already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 I'm honestly curious, exactly what do you believe happened in these games which should equate to a couple more wins for the Browns? i said there is no excuses for them losing. what happened in those games are mistakes and the fact that we lack talent at some positions and got burned by the opposition. turnovers at key times have killed us. should a, could a would a. no excuse. (sigh in disgust) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 While there has been progress it is simply not enough as compared to other clubs, this is the nfl its not highschool ball and the linear offensive coaching plays an enormous role in this teams inability to move forward... The mangini love will die out over time when more fans actually notice how poorly coached this team is and as the players one by one just quit on the field like braylon, poole, thomas and harrison are doing in hopes of being traded and i cant blame them... You can see it if you take off the blinders and look at the players and im sure holmgren knows it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraDawg Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Still pushing the "it's all Mangini's fault" card ...........huh Gimp ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
next2nothing Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 Still pushing the "it's all Mangini's fault" card ...........huh Gimp ? He's going to push it till Mangini is out of town. Which is sad, because a lot of fans can see a structure being put up right now while Gips focuses on the fact that we're 1 - 4. Yet he won't acknowledge that we've never quit in any game thus far. All our games have been close and our D is playing better than what they show on paper. We found our new RB in Hillis. Haden and Ward are showing flashes of being the defenders we want them to be and they improve each week. Yes, there are still parts of this team that need fixing, but you can't fix everything in one off-season. This isn't Madden 10. As far as some of the players quitting. It's not quitting. It's they were never that great in the first place. Jerome Harrison looked like he was going to take over after the last 4 games last year but obviously he is still the same player and I really don't think he stays on this team in the off-season. Edwards is a diva and he hasn't done anything great in New York. Pool wasn't anything great either. Thomas hasn't quit. Is it possible he may have just had a bad game? Jesus... Give Mangini and this organization a decent amount of leash because a team who has become accustomed to losing doesn't learn to win in one season. How do some of you expect us to become a winning, contending team when every 2 - 3 years we bring in another coach? This negativity is atrocious and if you're just going to look at all the bad each week then go root for another team please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CantonLegend Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 surprisingly the browns have been fun to watch for me despite them making similar stupid mistakes that they make year in and year out, they look a lot better in all phases hillis is so fun to watch. fujita, roth and barton make up one of the most underrated LB corps in the league and the secondary is playing surprisngly well the drafts have turned out well and the front office seems to be doing things to make the team a lot better all these close losses this year will turn into wins next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark O Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 I agree....we went through this in the tavern after the game. I'm so sick of the negativity. This team is better than last year and is heading in the right direction. Everyone needs to shut up and let things develop for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 You can't make that claim about Modell. He was the scapegoat victim of the city of Cleveland's infinite stupidity. Don't f**king even bring your ignorance and stupidity to bear here on that subject. Touch a nerve with some reality you don't want to admit? Really? Give it up..........Cleveland will NEVER see a top named coach here.....NEVER. Want proof? look back at your history! You are so cute when you get your panties in a bunch! You're a hoot dude [/color] Those that think NFL history started in 1970 are even a bigger hoot- so if you need a history lesson- here it is. Paul Brown, Blanton Collier, and Marty Shottenhiemer all have better winning percentages than Chuck Noll, so kindly remove that foot you just stuck in your pie-hole. And if Brown hadn't taken on the coaching duties of some crap Bengals teams and the NFL would recognize his AAFC record, he'd top Lombardi for best W-L %. Yeah, Modell was such a forking genius, he fired TWO of the 20 best coaches in NFL history (make that three counting Belichick) , and managed to go broke while he was milking one of the top 5 cash cows in the NFL in the process. And I'll agree with Gipper- the Modell thing has been beaten to death over the years, and bluntly, a ton of misinformation propaganda got out to the National media that was flat-out spin doctoring by Artie- starting with "I had no choice." [[ addendum- Make that- if I want to pass the team to my cigar chomping kid. ]] Lerner could just as easily have written the $600 million check to Modell as he did to the NFL three years later. Face it- Modell mangled his finances up so badly, a new Browns Stadium (which he never asked for incidentally) he WAS asked to be part of Gateway, and refused- even a $50 million dollar bribe from the State of Maryland AND a new stadium wasn't enough to keep the booger financially solvent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 12, 2010 Report Share Posted October 12, 2010 While there has been progress it is simply not enough as compared to other clubs, this is the nfl its not highschool ball and the linear offensive coaching plays an enormous role in this teams inability to move forward... The mangini love will die out over time when more fans actually notice how poorly coached this team is and as the players one by one just quit on the field like braylon, poole, thomas and harrison are doing in hopes of being traded and i cant blame them... You can see it if you take off the blinders and look at the players and im sure holmgren knows it.... Yeah, since Tampa and Kansas City are doing OK this year, your solution is to can the coaching staff. By your logic, Jerry Jones should have fired Wade Phillips yesterday, and Childress in Minnesota should be right behind him in the unemployment line this morning. Teams with vastly superior talent that are sucking big time. Whoo-hoo. Poole got his pants beat off tonight on MNF, if you bothered to watch. He's about due for his career ending concussion. Edwards the Diva of the DUI- Mr Party boy- well, maybe since he's off the sauce now and can actually see straight- is averaging a tad over three catches per game. So you think Harrison- he of the six carries for six yards was falling down on purpose, after barely being touched in the Atlanta game? IN A CONTRACT YEAR? Don't insult my intelligence. Thomas had a bad game- it happens. So great Guru of Mangooffy's Gotta Go, care to expound on the quality of the Browns wide receivers, that our Atlanta guest accurately assessed as not up to snuff? So they could play 10 yard defense and stuff Hillis? How about qb? We have a washed up Jake, and career backup in Wallace- who no one is going to compare to an elite qb, yet are still an improvement over what we had last year. Notice Quinn and Anderception are riding pine in Denver and Arizona respectively? Don't give me the coulda, shoulda got Moss, Boldin. Those guys were going to go to SB contenders, not to Cleveland. Coaching can only take you so far in the NFL. You need players. Since we play Pittsburgh this week, go ask our Steeler trolls how many of the Browns could start there- seriously. It would still be a damn short list. You might be able to add Hillis and TJ Ward this year. Out of the 22 starters, I'd say maybe 5 others tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Nobody, but you, said anything about pre or post 70's. The only two named coaches that have coached in Cleveland in the last 50 years have been upstart no-name coaches who were fired in Cleveland and went on to be great elsewhere so you can't claim them......nice try though! Goes to show Modell didn't know coaching talent if it walked up to him and bit him in the ass. And as to how moving the team worked out- it got him unceremoniously drummed out of the NFL Ownership fraternity. Yeah- Marty's two AFC Championship appearances in Cleveland make him a real bum. And you said never- that's a long time- so how the hell do you know? Few years back, I could have won a bunch of coin betting against suckers who were stupid enough to believe the Saints would "never" win a Super Bowl. And BTW you said no coaches- I suppose one that's in the HOF doesn't count either, you didn't give me any time constraints, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownB499 Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 Trust me..........you will NEVER see a top name coach come here.......NEVER! AHEM...... Mike Holmgren... ....Nice try troll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopaji Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 making progress? only in cleveland. you guys "progress" is like being "a little less dead". i guess in stainland you gotta take what you can get. "0-16!!!!!! but we lost every game by only 1 point!!!! that's progress out the wazooo!!!!" Again, we need to put an "F-You" button next to the "Thank You" button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopaji Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 This is progress. I'm too sleepy to go into specifics but this year's team would blow last year's team out of the stadium. In my opinion, all we are missing is a true #1 WR. This team is well coached and the game plan each week has been solid and effective. The defense has a ton of talent and the offense can be addressed this offseason. In the meantime, you have 55 guys leaning the system and playing there asses off each week. And we are as physical as any team in the league. Look at how much activity goes on after the whistle. Some may say it's a sign of sloppy play but what it really is is a team beating another team up all day and the other team getting frustrated. Everything is in place except for a bonified offensive weapon. Losing sucks like a Vegas call girl but I am pretty happy about what I'm seeing relative to where we are in the rebuilding process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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