Future Wide Recievers

[IschY]

Last night I watched Monday Night Football and saw an incredible offensive display. Mike Vick will be getting all the compliments in the world today but I believe someone else should be getting the credit. GM Tom Heckert Drafted DeSean Jackson in the 2nd Round in 2008 when a lot of people passed on him, then in 09 drafted another unproven "speed" receiver in the 1st Round. If you watch the speed of these receivers made the safeties play so deep that Vick could run like crazy. They also were always open. This is a WR league and sometimes QBs get all the credit and Vick does deserve tons of credit but man with that type of speed at the WR position they are hard to guard.

 

I really believe Heckert will use the same template as he did in Philly and look for a "DeSean Jackson, Maclin" type receiver in the first 3 rounds. Speed is what really seperates WR at this level and Heckert will get us a speed guy to open our offense up.

[4Browns]

Well, Carlton Mitchell is a Heckert pick and he is supposed to be above average fast.

 

What has to be be determined is the problem that our current WR's just can't get open, or is it the offensive system? Colt has done a better job of finding the TE rather than the WR so far.

 

It is rumored that Holmgren is not enamored with our current offensive scheme. Perhaps a good OC comes available during the offseason and Mangini accepts a new OC?

[ballpeen]

We can argue scheme until we are blue in the face. The bottom line is receivers get open by what they do, not what the scheme does to get them open.

 

 

We have guys who aren't very fast, quick, or possess some fakes that give them a bit of separation.

[Alo]

We're more of a running team than the Eagles, which makes having a WR who can block important.

 

We still could go for a small, fast guy like Ryan Broyles, but a big, more physical guy like Julio Jones is a strong possibility as well.

[ClevelandBigDawg]

It really depends on who we have as Quarterback. In Philly they have possessed some very good QBs. McNabb, Vick, and Kolb all have big arms, so the speed receivers have more time to develop the deep routes. Personally I would love to stick with Colt, as many of you guys probably also would, but he does not possess elite arm strength at this time.

 

Sure they can do crossing routes and stuff, but that is how both Massaquoi and Desean Jackson got hurt. They ran right across the middle, exposing them more to big hits. I want a player like Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson. Now I don't mean they have to be elite because it will be tough to get someone like them, just big physical receivers who will go up and get you a ball, and possess enough speed to get around the DBs.

 

I like Green, Baldwin and Jones. I do like Broyles though too even though he is in the smaller and quicker mold.

 

 

[tshirtfan]

It really depends on who we have as Quarterback. In Philly they have possessed some very good QBs. McNabb, Vick, and Kolb all have big arms, so the speed receivers have more time to develop the deep routes. Personally I would love to stick with Colt, as many of you guys probably also would, but he does not possess elite arm strength at this time.

 

Sure they can do crossing routes and stuff, but that is how both Massaquoi and Desean Jackson got hurt. They ran right across the middle, exposing them more to big hits. I want a player like Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson. Now I don't mean they have to be elite because it will be tough to get someone like them, just big physical receivers who will go up and get you a ball, and possess enough speed to get around the DBs.

 

I like Green, Baldwin and Jones. I do like Broyles though too even though he is in the smaller and quicker mold.

 

I think crossing routes have a place, but it's better to use big, physical tight ends.

 

Colt can make a decision quickly and get the ball out even quicker, so he doesn't have to bomb it 50+ yards to go deep. He just needs to work on his accuracy on those over the top throws. He's a bit below average at the moment (and I'm a huge McCoy homer), but hey, that's something he can fix through reps and working with his receivers.

[SweetSouthernNights]

The Browns need to do everything in their power to get Jordan Shipley from Cincinnati... or at the very least Quan Cosby.

 

Both players are talented enough to be future NFL stars in their own right but pair them with Colt McCoy again and they could be lethal. The duo have rare chemistry with McCoy... they instinctively know what the other is going to do before they do it from years of playing together. The record-breaking '08 University of Texas offense was based almost entirely on QB/WR reads and hot routes... they would just pick opposing defenses apart. Great hands, underrated athletes, outstanding character/work-ethic, knack for making clutch plays... people tend to forget that both were highly coveted recruits coming out of high school (unlike McCoy)... Shipley is the state of Texas' all-time recieving leader at any level.

 

Ohio State fans will remember Cosby from the '08 Fiesta Bowl when he hauled in 14 catches for 179 yds/2 TDs, including the game-winner with 16 seconds to go in the game. (Shipley had 10 catches in the game as well)

 

Both players are undervalued and underpaid by the Bengals IMO

 

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I can understand the thinking behind Heckert going for similar receivers as he did in Philly, but I don't think it's going to fit the system we are currently running. With Daboll and Mangini, our offense was supposed to be an Erhardt-Perkins style of offense, similar to what the Patriots run. Granted, it didn't resemble New England's offensive success, but you could see the roots of our offense in theirs.

 

Since Holmgren came in there have been talks of us adapting our offense to a more traditional Bill Walsh-esque WCO philosophy. That is, short passes to set up the run. With Holmgren coming into the system, it made sense. Bringing in Gil Haskell, Holmgren's old OC fit. The addition of Seneca Wallace also fit, he's been in Haskell's WCO for a while. Jake was Jake, a wild card. But with a speedy back like Harrison, and no definitive number 1 receiver, we had the offensive personnel for a WCO. Drafting Colt McCoy seemed to reinforce the point too. A mobile, accurate QB who's known for his preparation and knowledge of the game? That's a WC QB if there ever was one.

 

But then Harrison did jack squat for us. Jakey got hurt. Seneca got hurt. Our receivers proved they couldn't get any seperation on any routes. Peyton Hillis proved to be a true manimal. And Colt came in, after a terrible preseason, and put any doubters to shame. He proved he could throw the long ball with some zip, and pretty accurately too. The offensive identity shifted tremendously.

 

Now we've got a power running team, with passes that focus on our strong receiving TE's. We've got a bruising, lead blocking FB who can catch out of the backfield. A solid offensive line. Teams have to respect our play action now with Hillis carrying the rock. We've got the personnel for the Erhardt-Perkins influence. We've got the coaches who are experienced in that system. We're also a solid #1 receiver away from running a Norv Turner-esque Air Coryell offense, which fits our personnel scheme beautifully too. We can run the most beautiful of hybrids in the NFL, based on the front office, coaches and players we have. But the main thing we're missing for any of these offenses is a solid #1 receiver. A large, physical receiver who can bully the secondary and get those jump balls.

 

My pick, A.J. Green. For obvious reasons.

[Nw220]

I agree that Shipley would be big here in Cleveland if somehow we could of got him along with McCoy they just know each other so well but im gonna have to say im all for AJ Green next year he may not be there when we pick but the guy whos been standing out big time to me is Justin Blackmon for OSU he is competely dominating everyone in College Football even Prince from Nebraska whos top 5 on both Kiper and Mcshays big boards

[steel88]

What happened to Demetrius Williams? I know a few of you were high on him when we got him.

[Zombo]

What happened to Demetrius Williams? I know a few of you were high on him when we got him.

 

He's been inactive. So has Charlton Mitchell.

 

Can't imagine either could be worse than Robiskie at this point.

 

Zombo

[shepwrite]

Won't be shocked to see one of those two guys active in place of Robiskie very soon, probably Williams.

 

One of the OBR guys said they've been watching the WRs pretty closely... and they just don't get open, period. Robiskie is the worst and almost certainly doesn't have a future with the team.

 

Assuming Massoqoui DOES... I'd love to get a big, physical T.O. or Dez Bryant type with functional game speed and explosive cuts. A bully. We don't have a QB with McNabb or Dog Killah's arm, so you have to look at what their offense looks like with Kolb... which was really good after he got his feet under him, but very different.

 

Wonder where Kolb goes next year? Seattle? Minnesota?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Won't be shocked to see one of those two guys active in place of Robiskie very soon, probably Williams.

 

One of the OBR guys said they've been watching the WRs pretty closely... and they just don't get open, period. Robiskie is the worst and almost certainly doesn't have a future with the team.

 

Assuming Massoqoui DOES... I'd love to get a big, physical T.O. or Dez Bryant type with functional game speed and explosive cuts. A bully. We don't have a QB with McNabb or Dog Killah's arm, so you have to look at what their offense looks like with Kolb... which was really good after he got his feet under him, but very different.

 

Wonder where Kolb goes next year? Seattle? Minnesota?

 

 

Why do we have to compare our offense with that of the Eagles?

 

The GM doesn't run the offense or defense. He just drafts players and makes personnel decisions. And I'm not entirely sure how much control Heckert has outside of drafting people. I think our offense is more like a Pats/49ers offense.

[jasont44094]

In the upcoming draft I would like us to look at senior wr Jarvis Williams out of North Carolina St. he's starting to break some of Torry Holts records there.

[DawgTracker]

I like Alston Jeffrey from south carolina, reminds me of TO a little physically.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I like Alston Jeffrey from south carolina, reminds me of TO a little physically.

 

Alshon is awesome, I've seen first hand. I go to Columbia every other weekend and watch him play. He wouldn't be a bad acquisition but he's only a sophomore, so we'll have to wait a year at least. A.J. Green is all but a foregone conclusion to be done at Georgia.

 

Imagine getting both of them. That would be something.

[Unsympathetic]

AJ Green will not be available by the time the Browns pick in the first round. Seriously, just stop thinking about him because he won't drop.

 

The challenge is that we need to draft a 3-4 DE such as Bailey(Miami) / Jordan(Cal) / Fairley(Auburn) with our #1 in 2011 to replace Rogers. Rubin is good, but he can't do everything by himself.

 

I hope Heckert does what it takes to trade back into the first to get Floyd from ND .. he's a true #1 WR and is only dropping because of an injury history. So far this year, Floyd is injury-free - and at 6'3, 220, he's a load who can run-block as well as catch jump balls.

[shepwrite]

AJ Green will not be available by the time the Browns pick in the first round. Seriously, just stop thinking about him because he won't drop.

 

The challenge is that we need to draft a 3-4 DE such as Bailey(Miami) / Jordan(Cal) / Fairley(Auburn) with our #1 in 2011 to replace Rogers. Rubin is good, but he can't do everything by himself.

 

I hope Heckert does what it takes to trade back into the first to get Floyd from ND .. he's a true #1 WR and is only dropping because of an injury history. So far this year, Floyd is injury-free - and at 6'3, 220, he's a load who can run-block as well as catch jump balls.

 

 

I love Floyd and think he could be a great YAC guy in a WCO-ish offense (whether with a new OC or just continuing to develop that way).

 

To the poster who asked: WCO is part of a culture tracing to Bill Walsh, and Holmgren is probably the current Godfather of that culture. Heckert and whatsisname, our offensive consultant, are part of that culture, too. They affect the team from the top and we're already seeing a vast improvement in the management of our offense. No, Holmgren isn't satisfied yet because we aren't involving the WRs, but he has to acknowledge that we lack talent there and probably should have done something about it last offseason.

 

But anybody who thinks Holmgren isn't driving the bus is fooling himself. He'll decide what's best as we move forward after this year.

 

Back to Floyd: I think he'll rise. Right now he's showing up from 20-30, but I think if he comes out of the year healthy and has decent camps, we'll see him as a very valid pick at #15 or wherever we draft. I agree that DE is another priority and we'll probably address it early. I'm guessing we'll get a linebacker and a right-side blocker, too. Obviously free agency will be a factor.

[Hawgdawg]

I'm going to put my wide receiver bid in to consider Greg Childs from the University of Arkansas (6'3", 217). He is just a junior this year, so I don't know if he will come out.

 

I would love to get Shipley to Cleveland some way, but I don't think Cincy is going to let him go, certainly not after he has had a good rookie season. To put McCoy and Shipley back together would put a lot of pressure on them. Expectations would be unrealistically off the charts.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

I love Floyd and think he could be a great YAC guy in a WCO-ish offense (whether with a new OC or just continuing to develop that way).

 

To the poster who asked: WCO is part of a culture tracing to Bill Walsh, and Holmgren is probably the current Godfather of that culture. Heckert and whatsisname, our offensive consultant, are part of that culture, too. They affect the team from the top and we're already seeing a vast improvement in the management of our offense. No, Holmgren isn't satisfied yet because we aren't involving the WRs, but he has to acknowledge that we lack talent there and probably should have done something about it last offseason.

 

But anybody who thinks Holmgren isn't driving the bus is fooling himself. He'll decide what's best as we move forward after this year.

 

Back to Floyd: I think he'll rise. Right now he's showing up from 20-30, but I think if he comes out of the year healthy and has decent camps, we'll see him as a very valid pick at #15 or wherever we draft. I agree that DE is another priority and we'll probably address it early. I'm guessing we'll get a linebacker and a right-side blocker, too. Obviously free agency will be a factor.

 

I know what the WCO offense is. I was just asking why you compared our offense to Philly's when we're really nothing like Philly's offense. They are a spread WCO without a power running game. We're more of a hybrid Erhardt-Perkins/ Air Coryell offense with WC influence.

 

I don't see any similarities.

 

 

As for A.J. Green, most mocks have us picking between 3-8 in the 2011 draft. It is highly possible A.J. Green could fall to us with the hype around Julio Jones, DaQuan Bowers, and Pat Peterson.

 

I think it's safe to assume that Buffalo, Dallas and Carolina will round out the top 3. Buffalo needs a QB, Dallas doesn't need another WR with the corps they have, and Carolina could be looking at WR, but it's more likely they're looking to shore up the defensive side of the ball. Remember what happened the last time Carolina took a giant defensive end with the second pick overall? They could be looking to hit that jackpot again.

[hx214]

Honestly I really hope we draft Defense with our first pick.

 

We really need a pass rush DE or a LB.

 

We have got to be one of the oldest teams in the NFL on the Defensive side of the ball. Plus, I could do without another Braylon fiasco...

 

I'd like to see them go out and get a proven WR, rather than bet high on a rookie. I think if they could find a true no 1 MoMass, Cribbs and Stuckey could be a pretty solid core. (Maybe Williams will be a good surprise) I just really think we need to address the age issue on D.

 

I'd give up a number 2 all day to get a guy like Boldin.... Damn Ravens...

 

 

 

[cribbs is the man]

by pass rushing DE do you mean a DE in the 3-4 or a pass rushing OLB? either position we could upgrade but i think a DE is higher on the list. They usually arent considered pass rushers really in the 3-4 though

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Honestly I really hope we draft Defense with our first pick.

 

We really need a pass rush DE or a LB.

 

We have got to be one of the oldest teams in the NFL on the Defensive side of the ball. Plus, I could do without another Braylon fiasco...

 

I'd like to see them go out and get a proven WR, rather than bet high on a rookie. I think if they could find a true no 1 MoMass, Cribbs and Stuckey could be a pretty solid core. (Maybe Williams will be a good surprise) I just really think we need to address the age issue on D.

 

I'd give up a number 2 all day to get a guy like Boldin.... Damn Ravens...

 

Defensive ends aren't the pass rushers in the 3-4. The defensive line in the 3-4 has a two-gap responsibility more often than not. That means they eat the blocker in front of them, and are responsible for the gap on either side of them. Therefore, the defensive linemen need to be on the bigger side. Most times, the pressure from a 3-4 defense is generated from a blitzing OLB scraping the edge. That's why a lot of us love Marcus Benard, he's an OLB with a nose for the QB.

 

Defensive ends in the 3-4 tend to be around the size of 4-3 defensive tackles. And the noseguard in the 3-4 tends to be around the size of a small planet. Since most college teams run the 4-3 defense, a pass rushing DE would more likely be an OLB for us. We're probably going to be looking for a "tweener". Brian Orakpo is a great example. He played defensive end at Texas, but now plays OLB for the Redskins. Aaron Curry is another good example.

 

I'd love to see us nab an Orakpo or Curry type player. I was hoping we drafted either one of them, but it never panned out. Larry English was another pass rusher I was high on. But instead we traded back and got Alex Mack, and I can't complain about that.