Realistic Progress vrs Premature Kneejerks

[Flugel]

I keep reading a lot of nonsense about personnel decisions from people that haven't been behind the scenes with microphones at all hours. Folks, I don't believe Mangini wanted someone other than Haden where we picked. First, Mangini was a Secondary Coach before a DC. Second, If anyone listened to Mangini describe Haden after the draft - it sounded like he thoroughly studied the guy. He even knew his dad was a pesonal trainer and you can archive some of the post draft videos/conference on clevelandbrowns.com. But he was talking about the desirable skillset, work ethic and character of Haden as well. A lot of the people that don't like Mangini like to bring up he was only interested in the draft picks that didn't turn out well. He's not the guy that brought in the FA land mines such as Shaun Smith and Donte Stallworth as well as the oft-injureds creating even more holes where considerable monies had already been budgetted. The formula in mind seems consistent with what Mangini helped bring to NY: Corner(Darrelle Revis), Oline(Mangold & Ferguson) LB(David Harris), TE (Dustin Keller). Those are key guys in the core of young players the Jets rely on today.

 

BTW, here's some players that were added in 2009: Matt Roth, Evan Moore, Marcus Benard, Reggie Hodges, Alex Mack, David Bowens, Kenyon Coleman, Derreck Robinson, Chansi Stuckey, Pork Chop Womack, Brian Schaefering, Blake Costanzo, Jason Trusnik, Eric Barton (not my favorite but he's starting because Jackson is hurt again). Considering Savage left us only 4 draft picks for 2009, we could have done a whole lot worse.

 

Did Mangini ever treat the NY media to a 45-3 loss? Come to think of it, did Cleveland play that same NE team this year when the Browns were just a weee bit healthier? They've already put the engagement ring on Rex Ryan after the final 2 opponents of the 09 regular season took a knee to give them wins #8 and #9. Not exactly an upgrade from the 2008 record of 9-7. Before the arrival of Santonio Holmes, they were exclusively Dustin Keller and RB position for big plays.

 

Keep in mind, as much as a NY Shakespeare ADORES the perfect Rex Ryan - I'm not even so sure he's BETTER than his brother. Hear me out. Just be cause Rex could call defenses as well as Marvin Lewis and Dick Nolan could when Ray Lewis was his MLB and Ed Reed was the designated playmaker - doesn't mean he could do the same without the star studded lineup. It's like Brian Billick calling offenses in Baltimore without the 5-7 Pro Bowl players. He just handed off to a 2000 yard rusher and had Shannon Sharpe bail out Dilfer when they had to throw. On top of that, the Baltimore Defense allowed under 10 points a game while they usually scored points themselves in the process.

 

Furthermore, even GOOD organizations make mistakes in the draft almost annually. There's gonna be some mistakes made along the way; so if we keep Mangini - the haters can continue to assign every one of them to Mangini. Practice makes perfect. I'm not in as big of a hurry to prematurely send Mangini packing to start over from scratch again. I've witnessed that shit for almost 20 straight years to believe in it any more than UFOs. Speaking of which, we once had a DC (Bob Slowik) that called his one of his pass defense schemes the UFO. Why? Because that's exactly what a forward pass looked like against the 20 yard cushions he wanted our corners to give opposing receivers. I wish I could say I was only kidding but unfortunately I can't. That's what happens when you change for the mere purpose of changing. It's been like swinging at a pinyatta with blindfolds on after several getting spun around several times. 1 more time and I almost have to begin questioning how much time I've wasted...

 

- Tom F. (I do NOT want Marty Morningsickness here when Andy Reid only allows him to do about 25% of the OC position as it is.)

[BROWNandORANGE]

Ok well if anyone continues to regret drafting Haden, they surely have not watched the last couple of games.

[choco]

most of the arguments ive heard against mangini are personal BS not back by fact, but circumstantial evidence by unreliable media sources with an axe to grind.

 

its amazing the number of people that turn a blind eye to the positives of the past 2 years. its why i hardly post anymore. too much stupidity to bite my lip....

[ATENEARS]

My inside sources tell me that it was Rob Ryan who did not want Haden. He thought he was too slow for the NFL.

 

I have no such questions about Mangini as I do Rob Ryan. I don't like the fact that Wright started over Haden even well after getting torched and losing games for us. It took an injury in Jacksonville for Haden to get his opportunity to unseat Wright.

 

My 'sources' also tell me that Rob Ryan thought that Marcus Benard was his best player last season, but that Mangini didn't even have Bernard dressed for early games. I find that hard to believe that a DC couldn't have a say in whether a player dresses or not. I'm still pinning this on Ryan too.

 

I have liked the play of Brian Schaefering, but didn't he too onl get the nod after injuries? He had a Monster game verse the Steelers late last year on Thursday night, leaving us to look at one another and say, "Who?". He had another good game this year against the hated rival.

 

I guess Offensively we can say that we would have never seen Colt McCoy had not been for TWO injuries, but I think that position is much different, we had big money invested in to the acqusistions ahead of the Colt.

 

I guess I'm saying that Rob Ryan's schemes are great and all, but I am suspect on his personnel decisions. I have no quams with Eric Mangini, that dude has made all the tough decisions we needed him to make in taking control of the locker room.

[Zombo]

I keep reading a lot of nonsense about personnel decisions from people that haven't been behind the scenes with microphones at all hours. Folks, I don't believe Mangini wanted someone other than Haden where we picked. First, Mangini was Secondary Coach before a DC. Second, If anyone listened to Mangini describe Haden after the draft - it sounded like he thoroughly studied the guy. He even knew his dad was a pesonal trainer and you can archive some of the post draft videos/conference on clevelandbrowns.com. But he was talking about the desirable skillset, work ethic and character of Haden as well. A lot of the people that don't like Mangini like to bring up he was only interested in the draft picks that didn't turn out well. He's not the guy that brought the FA land mines such as Shaun Smith and Donte Stallworth as well as the oft-injureds creating even more holes where considerable monies had already been budgetted. The formula in mind seems consistent with what Mangini helped bring to NY: Corner(Darrelle Revis), Oline(Mangold & Ferguson) LB(David Harris), TE (Dustin Keller). Those are key guys in the core of young players the Jets rely on today.

 

BTW, here's some players that were added in 2009: Matt Roth, Evan Moore, Marcus Benard, Reggie Hodges, Alex Mack, David Bowens, Kenyon Coleman, Derreck Robinson, Chansi Stuckey, Pork Chop Womack, Brian Schaefering, Blake Costanzo, Jason Trusnik, Eric Barton (not my favorite but he's starting because Jackson is hurt again). Considering Savage left us only 4 draft picks for 2009, we could have done a whole lot worse.

 

Did Mangini ever treat the NY media to a 45-3 loss? Come to think of it, did Cleveland play that same NE team this year when the Browns were just a weee bit healthier? They've already put the engagement ring on Rex Ryan after the final 2 opponents of the 09 regular season took a knee to give them wins #8 and #9. Not exactly an upgrade from the 2008 record of 9-7. Before the arrival of Santonio Holmes, they were exclusively Dustin Keller and RB position for big plays.

 

Keep in mind, as much as a NY Shakespeare ADORES the perfect Rex Ryan - I'm not even so sure he's BETTER than his brother. Hear me out. Just be cause Rex could call defenses as well as Marvin Lewis and Dick Nolan could when Ray Lewis was his MLB and Ed Reed was the designated playmaker - doesn't mean he could do the same without the star studded lineup. It's like Brian Billick calling offenses in Baltimore without the 5-7 Pro Bowl players. He just handed off to a 2000 yard rusher and had Shannon Sharpe bail out Dilfer when they had to throw. On top of that, the baltimore Defense allowed under 10 points a game while they usually score points themselves in the process.

 

Furthermore, even GOOD organizations make mistakes in the draft almost annually. There's gonna be some mistakes made along the way; so if we keep Mangini - the haters can continue to assign every one of them to Mangini. Practice makes perfect. I'm not in as big of a hurry to prematurely send Mangini packing to start over from scratch again. I've witnessed that shit for almost 20 straight years to believe in it any more than UFOs. Speaking of which, we once had a DC (Bob Slowik) that called his one of his pass defense schemes the UFO. Why? Because that's exactly what a forward pass looked like against the 20 yard cushions he wanted our corners to give opposing receivers. I wish I could say I was only kidding but unfortunately I can't. That's what happens when you change for the mere purpose of changing. It's been like swinging at a pinyatta with blindfolds on after several getting spun around several times. 1 more time and I almost have to begin questioning how much time I've wasted...

 

- Tom F. (I do NOT want Marty Morningsickness here when Andy Reid only allows him to do about 25% of the OC position as it is.)

 

You had me at "Bob Slowik". Welcome back. Mangini is doing things the right way, from the ground up. Wish we had a Mangini in 1999, glad we have him now. This team plays with anyone, can beat anyone, plays with fundamentals, gets regular contributions from its youngest stars, and will only get better and better as along as we leave the coach in place and continue to draft like Heckert and co. did in 2010. We are finally going places ... and this time it's real.

 

Zombo

[Loyalty]

You had me at "Bob Slowik". Welcome back. Mangini is doing things the right way, from the ground up. Wish we had a Mangini in 1999, glad we have him now. This team plays with anyone, can beat anyone, plays with fundamentals, gets regular contributions from its youngest stars, and will only get better and better as along as we leave the coach in place and continue to draft like Heckert and co. did in 2010. We are finally going places ... and this time it's real.

 

Zombo

QFT!

 

Mangini has really proven to me this year that he has some sort of knowledge of how to win games.

 

The only problem is I think Rob Ryan will be Head Coach somewhere else in the NFL next season.

[Squintz]

I really think we'll see Mangini here next year with a strong Holmgren OC.

 

As for Ryan - I love what he does for the D but he may be pillaged by a team trying to make a head coaching splash and ride the coat-tails of his brother. I honestly think his chance at being a HC this year depends greatly on how the Jets do to end the season and in the playoffs. If they end it well like last year, Ryan is gone. If they fold, teams will shy away. The two Ryan brothers are linked - right or wrong.

[ATENEARS]

If we had to chose between Holmgren & Mangini, I'd probably side with keeping Mangini. I think Holmgren though has instilled a calm and professionalism in the front office and as a team persona as a whole. Mangini probably doesn't accomplish what he did without Holmgren and Holmgren probably doesn't have such an easy transition here without a head coach laying the foundation by doing the dirty work prior to Holmgren landing on our door step.

 

I don't mean to be a dick, but Rob Ryan is family dog or mascot in this picture. I like all three and wouldn't even mind the stability of having Daboll continue to learn and grow. This was Daboll's first OC gig and the growing pains can be expected, especially with the butt receiving talent we have here.

 

With all that said, where is this team without Hillis? Maybe not much improvement from last season.

 

Hillis for MVP.

[Earl34]

Extremely well stated Flugel.

 

I would offer to you that Rex Ryan is living proof that if you can divert peoples' attention with a bunch of hand-waving then you can have them ignore the obvious.

 

The obvious fact with Rex is that while he might have been a good DC in Baltimore and while his scheme may work well with the talent that was already assembled for him in NY....that doesn't make him a good head coach.

 

As an example, Rex Ryan was shut out 9-0 at home coming off of a bye and with 11 days to prep...they get blown out 45-3. Give any NFL head coach 11 days and he should be able to be competitive. What's more is that Rex is very irresponsible with challenges and time outs. Head coaching in the NFL isn't about being a defensive coordinator. It's about being organized, focusing your team, getting the best out of them, scheming for your opponent and making the tough calls. Rex is still doing his DC thing and people aren't calling him on it. Why? Because they like his act.

 

I wouldn't say there's no chance Holmgren STILL blows this up but if he does, he pretty much signs his way out of town because the margin he'll allow himself or whoever is coaching the team will be razor thin.

 

Let's be honest about Rob Ryan. Rob was in Oakland and had HORRIBLE defenses. It's only as a LB coach under Belichick and now that he's gotten any results. I can't tell you how much of what you see on Sunday is Rob and how much is Mangini but to think that Rob could run his own team with the same effectiveness is truly speculative.

 

There are no shortage of media players in the game who have an axe to grind with our coach. Mike Lombardi tops the list. I suppose that the coach's lack of "media friendliness" before this year may have made that bed for him to lie in but it's certainly a heaping pile of crow people will have to eat if and when he succeeds.

[Flugel]

My inside sources tell me that it was Rob Ryan who did not want Haden. He thought he was too slow for the NFL.

 

I have no such questions about Mangini as I do Rob Ryan. I don't like the fact that Wright started over Haden even well after getting torched and losing games for us. It took an injury in Jacksonville for Haden to get his opportunity to unseat Wright.

 

My 'sources' also tell me that Rob Ryan thought that Marcus Benard was his best player last season, but that Mangini didn't even have Bernard dressed for early games. I find that hard to believe that a DC couldn't have a say in whether a player dresses or not. I'm still pinning this on Ryan too.

 

I have liked the play of Brian Schaefering, but didn't he too onl get the nod after injuries? He had a Monster game verse the Steelers late last year on Thursday night, leaving us to look at one another and say, "Who?". He had another good game this year against the hated rival.

 

I guess Offensively we can say that we would have never seen Colt McCoy had not been for TWO injuries, but I think that position is much different, we had big money invested in to the acqusistions ahead of the Colt.

 

I guess I'm saying that Rob Ryan's schemes are great and all, but I am suspect on his personnel decisions. I have no quams with Eric Mangini, that dude has made all the tough decisions we needed him to make in taking control of the locker room.

 

Very good points made about Haden and Bowens. There was a trend of OCs facing the Browns that knew exactly when and where to find Eric Wright slacking off. They found this during the week on film and he just made their Sundays ergonomically free of stress at crunch time. When he's not in the lineup - they don't have a slacker identified. I'll EVEN take Mike Adams over Wright any day because I know he'll be busting tail when we need him to. Talent has ZERO to do with this one. If you want see a guy getting away with playing time without an attempt to break a sweat - go back and watch Wright vrs Baltimore. He didn't even want to get into a competitive stance or jump to deflect a pass he could have easily swatted away on 1 of their TD receptions. The Browns don't owe that guy squat.

 

At the end of 2009, Bowens looked like our biggest playmaker (aside from Roth) defensively and that was after a change from OLB to ILB. It was kind of nice to see him replace Wali Rainer, I mean D'Qwell Jackson, with better instincts to police the line of scrimmage inside. If you notice, Bowens really isn't a LBer we want policing the flats where he'll face faster footspeeds of RBs catching swing passes outside where corners are often locked up on WRs behind him . At least INSIDE Bowens can drop into the hook zones (with Safeties behind him) when he reads pass and as we saw vrs the Saints - his instincts got him there first (a la Teddy Bruschi) and he jumped a couple slants crossing his hook zone. 2 TDs later - he was Mr Big Play all over again. If Bowens gets beat vrs the pass in a hook zone he has help. If he gets beat in the flats - sometimes it's gonna mean he's a last line of defense. Scary! Now, with Fujita OUT, they keep putting Bowens back outside where he's less effective IMO. They should switch him and Gocong just because of the footspeed thing. That's a personnel thing I would think Rob Ryan should be all over until Fujita comes back.

 

Do you know who looks like he's benefitted the most from LESS Eric Wright? Abram Elam. That guy has been a BIG play monster since stripping that squid on NE of the football at the 2 yard line. Then, he intercepted Davids Garrards the next week and caused a fumble and scored on it the same game. I think the streak of turnovers continued the next 2 weeks. Maybe he's just always been overtaxed by Eric Wright. Who woulda thought the problem solve with Abram Elam was as simple as benching the tea-bagger in the 21 jersey. That's a pretty hot tax cut.

- Tom F.

[Bodogjoe]

I was not a fan of Mangini before. But what I am seeing now and the good foundation hes building I am definatly coming around. Having Holmgren doesnt hurt either.

[Flugel]

You had me at "Bob Slowik". Welcome back. Mangini is doing things the right way, from the ground up. Wish we had a Mangini in 1999, glad we have him now. This team plays with anyone, can beat anyone, plays with fundamentals, gets regular contributions from its youngest stars, and will only get better and better as along as we leave the coach in place and continue to draft like Heckert and co. did in 2010. We are finally going places ... and this time it's real.

 

Zombo

 

 

Thanks Zombo! Slowik would have loved Eric Wright. "Keep those WRs at least 1 county away - and we got em right where we want em!"

- Tom F.

[ATENEARS]

Do you know who looks like he's benefitted the most from LESS Eric Wright? - Tom F.

 

Good Point.

 

I thought that we had Elam and Ward mixed up in coverage/blitz schemes a few weeks back that threw me for a loop. We were sendinging Elam and had Ward favoring Sheldon Browns man, leaving Wright on an Island. I'd rather of had Elam back (and rolled more toward Wrights side) with the Hardnose Ward playing the blitz-run.

 

I think you touched on something, because I have felt much better with our Safety schemes since Wright has been out. However, I would roll more coverage to Sheldon's side instead of Haden's, especially with Sheldons bum shoulder and weak tackling of late (except last week).

 

I'll call out a useless scheme right now that is going to back-fire in Rob Ryan's face. At select times, he is putting TJ Ward out on the flanker, and Haden is retreating into a safety position. Interesting? Not at what takes place next; Ward will blitz from that deep outside corner position and Haden picks up the coverage 15-20 yards down field. By the time it takes Ward to blitz from the far extremities it is too late to make any difference. But what is going to happen one of these times is the QB will read this coverage and quick hit the receiver Ward just came off of and then we will have to hold our breath and see how good Haden makes an adequate stop in the wide-open field. It is a useless scheme. A Blitz just to be blitzing, if you will. I'd rather see Ward tuck his nose up inside and bull-rush through a gap, or blocking scheme, and have Haden set-up on his man knowing that he's on an island and take our chances there with a receiver beating him with a legit move off the line in under 3-seconds. I've seen this play in each of the last few weeks, and it has puzzled my puzzler.

[Canton Mike]

This is a GREAT thread!

I remember that it seemed like everyone loved Haden, UNTIL the slow time at the Combine. Then the "media experts" wrote him off as too slow for the NFL. I could never understand that, because if you ever saw the kid cover & tackle, you would HAVE to know that his skills + intensity + reactions=FOOTBALL speed, even if he WAS a step slower (which he isn't). Personally, my "kiss of death" on a player is "...great athlete who occasionally takes plays off". Thankfully, we have a Coach & Front Office that know how to measure what the Combine stats often miss.

If we stay the course, I think we'll be fine.

Mike

 

[MudratDetector]

This is a GREAT thread!

I remember that it seemed like everyone loved Haden, UNTIL the slow time at the Combine. Then the "media experts" wrote him off as too slow for the NFL. I could never understand that, because if you ever saw the kid cover & tackle, you would HAVE to know that his skills + intensity + reactions=FOOTBALL speed, even if he WAS a step slower (which he isn't). Personally, my "kiss of death" on a player is "...great athlete who occasionally takes plays off". Thankfully, we have a Coach & Front Office that know how to measure what the Combine stats often miss.

If we stay the course, I think we'll be fine.

Mike

 

the media and analysts said the same thing about mccoy and ward.

 

in my opinion, a smart organization does the exact opposite of what mel kiper jr says to do.

[jrb12711]

Some really solid points made here. Frankly too keep my point short, if after seeing how this team has played this year and how much we're improving, I'd be baffled if we fired Mangini. I'd also a whole lot of faith in the ability of Holmgren to make decisions regarding the team.

[Loyalty]

Some really solid points made here. Frankly too keep my point short, if after seeing how this team has played this year and how much we're improving, I'd be baffled if we fired Mangini. I'd also a whole lot of faith in the ability of Holmgren to make decisions regarding the team.

I think the next two games will decide Mangini's fate.

 

Lose to Buffalo and Cincy... finish under .500... gone...

 

Beat Buffalo and Cincy, lose to The Stillers and Ratbirds... finish under .500... TOSS UP.

 

Win 3 of last 4 games, finish 8-8... Mangini gets one more year.

[MDDawg]

More objective evidence of Browns improvement. Win or lose I don't think Mangini's going anywhere.

[NW Ohio Brownie]

I think the next two games will decide Mangini's fate.

 

Lose to Buffalo and Cincy... finish under .500... gone...

 

Beat Buffalo and Cincy, lose to The Stillers and Ratbirds... finish under .500... TOSS UP.

 

Win 3 of last 4 games, finish 8-8... Mangini gets one more year.

 

If this is the ONLY measuring stick then I think you are underestimating Mike Holmgren AND at the same time ignoring Mangini's entire body of work.

 

But I digress.

 

Fluges,

 

Un-freakin-believable post. One of the best I've read in a long time. You touched on a topic that's been on my mind ever since Rex took the podium in New York last year. My thought at the time was: "This guy talks a big game, but how will he be when adversity strikes?"

 

Make no mistake, Rex inherited a ready-made situation for success. He even admitted as much this year. Mangini had a hand in that. Was EM the sole reason for the level of talent? Of course not, but his fingerprints are all over that team when you look at how his moves here have echoed the ones he made in NY in terms of roster upgrades. So Rex comes in with Pro Bowl talent at cornerback, linebacker, defensive tackle, wide receiver, tight end, left tackle, center, and running back. Then he manages to go 7-7 in his first fourteen games. But he's got style and personality!!! He's good for a soundbite or two!!

 

But then they won two in the playoffs and he became legit. All credit to Rex for that, but yet no one was willing to write about how the Jets were just abysmal against lesser talent last year.

 

Then this year begins and he runs his mouth about the Patriots (again) and their first opponent, the Ravens. Then they go out and get beat by Baltimore in Week 1 without an offensive TD. Then in Week 2, they beat NE and again people are ready to anoint him as God. Meanwhile, EM loses a toughie to Baltimore on the road and whips the Pats at home and yet we still talk about his job security.

 

The Jets then win games they were all but beat in against inferior opponents Detroit and Houston. Then, without a Stuckey fumble, we get them in Week 10. Meanwhile, the Browns, in perhaps their poorest outing of the 2010 season, are lucky to beat Carolina. So in New York, they write about the resiliency and grit of the Jets, while elsewhere the Browns are playing down to their competition. Of course that makes sense because the Browns at that point had played two teams with losing records and had beaten both and their seven losses had come to teams that would be in the playoffs if they started today. Yet would anyone with any sanity claim that the Browns have comparable talent to the Jets?

 

Then finally Monday night happened and Billy and the boys decided it was time to tell Emperor Rex and the NY media that Sexy Rexy was, in fact, strutting around naked this whole time. 45-3? Are you kidding me? What the hell did NY do during those 10 preparation days? Oh, that's right, they searched for the cameras and audio recorders.

 

Look, Rex is a good coach, but an elite one? I think not. Is Mangini an elite one? No, and no one is ready to put him in that category until he can have some success in January.

 

But that being said, I will take Eric as our coach over Rex any day of the week. This is real progress, Browns fans.

 

Am I satisfied with a 5-7 record? Of course not.

Am I excited about the future of our team under Eric? You betcha.

Am I thrilled about the potential of Haden, Ward, and McCoy? Yep.

Am I enjoying watching castoffs/misfits on this squad play their sacks off every Sunday and then profess their love for the fans of this franchise? Absolutely.

Do I think this team is a playoff contender in 2011? Certainly, and I expect it to happen.

[WRREBEL]

Not to premature ejaculate, but I think mangini just needs to win 1 of the following 4 games to be back

[Earl34]

If this is the ONLY measuring stick then I think you are underestimating Mike Holmgren AND at the same time ignoring Mangini's entire body of work.

 

But I digress.

 

Fluges,

 

Un-freakin-believable post. One of the best I've read in a long time. You touched on a topic that's been on my mind ever since Rex took the podium in New York last year. My thought at the time was: "This guy talks a big game, but how will he be when adversity strikes?"

 

Make no mistake, Rex inherited a ready-made situation for success. He even admitted as much this year. Mangini had a hand in that. Was EM the sole reason for the level of talent? Of course not, but his fingerprints are all over that team when you look at how his moves here have echoed the ones he made in NY in terms of roster upgrades. So Rex comes in with Pro Bowl talent at cornerback, linebacker, defensive tackle, wide receiver, tight end, left tackle, center, and running back. Then he manages to go 7-7 in his first fourteen games. But he's got style and personality!!! He's good for a soundbite or two!!

 

But then they won two in the playoffs and he became legit. All credit to Rex for that, but yet no one was willing to write about how the Jets were just abysmal against lesser talent last year.

 

Then this year begins and he runs his mouth about the Patriots (again) and their first opponent, the Ravens. Then they go out and get beat by Baltimore in Week 1 without an offensive TD. Then in Week 2, they beat NE and again people are ready to anoint him as God. Meanwhile, EM loses a toughie to Baltimore on the road and whips the Pats at home and yet we still talk about his job security.

 

The Jets then win games they were all but beat in against inferior opponents Detroit and Houston. Then, without a Stuckey fumble, we get them in Week 10. Meanwhile, the Browns, in perhaps their poorest outing of the 2010 season, are lucky to beat Carolina. So in New York, they write about the resiliency and grit of the Jets, while elsewhere the Browns are playing down to their competition. Of course that makes sense because the Browns at that point had played two teams with losing records and had beaten both and their seven losses had come to teams that would be in the playoffs if they started today. Yet would anyone with any sanity claim that the Browns have comparable talent to the Jets?

 

Then finally Monday night happened and Billy and the boys decided it was time to tell Emperor Rex and the NY media that Sexy Rexy was, in fact, strutting around naked this whole time. 45-3? Are you kidding me? What the hell did NY do during those 10 preparation days? Oh, that's right, they searched for the cameras and audio recorders.

 

Look, Rex is a good coach, but an elite one? I think not. Is Mangini an elite one? No, and no one is ready to put him in that category until he can have some success in January.

 

But that being said, I will take Eric as our coach over Rex any day of the week. This is real progress, Browns fans.

 

Am I satisfied with a 5-7 record? Of course not.

Am I excited about the future of our team under Eric? You betcha.

Am I thrilled about the potential of Haden, Ward, and McCoy? Yep.

Am I enjoying watching castoffs/misfits on this squad play their sacks off every Sunday and then profess their love for the fans of this franchise? Absolutely.

Do I think this team is a playoff contender in 2011? Certainly, and I expect it to happen.

 

Don't forget watching the guys EM got rid of not help anyone else either....

 

[miktoxic]

Am I satisfied with a 5-7 record? Of course not.

Am I excited about the future of our team under Eric? You betcha.

Am I thrilled about the potential of Haden, Ward, and McCoy? Yep.

Am I enjoying watching castoffs/misfits on this squad play their sacks off every Sunday and then profess their love for the fans of this franchise? Absolutely.

Do I think this team is a playoff contender in 2011? Certainly, and I expect it to happen.

AWESOME!! sums it up for me.

 

[Flugel]

If this is the ONLY measuring stick then I think you are underestimating Mike Holmgren AND at the same time ignoring Mangini's entire body of work.

 

But I digress.

 

Fluges,

 

Un-freakin-believable post. One of the best I've read in a long time. You touched on a topic that's been on my mind ever since Rex took the podium in New York last year. My thought at the time was: "This guy talks a big game, but how will he be when adversity strikes?"

 

Make no mistake, Rex inherited a ready-made situation for success. He even admitted as much this year. Mangini had a hand in that. Was EM the sole reason for the level of talent? Of course not, but his fingerprints are all over that team when you look at how his moves here have echoed the ones he made in NY in terms of roster upgrades. So Rex comes in with Pro Bowl talent at cornerback, linebacker, defensive tackle, wide receiver, tight end, left tackle, center, and running back. Then he manages to go 7-7 in his first fourteen games. But he's got style and personality!!! He's good for a soundbite or two!!

 

But then they won two in the playoffs and he became legit. All credit to Rex for that, but yet no one was willing to write about how the Jets were just abysmal against lesser talent last year.

 

Then this year begins and he runs his mouth about the Patriots (again) and their first opponent, the Ravens. Then they go out and get beat by Baltimore in Week 1 without an offensive TD. Then in Week 2, they beat NE and again people are ready to anoint him as God. Meanwhile, EM loses a toughie to Baltimore on the road and whips the Pats at home and yet we still talk about his job security.

 

The Jets then win games they were all but beat in against inferior opponents Detroit and Houston. Then, without a Stuckey fumble, we get them in Week 10. Meanwhile, the Browns, in perhaps their poorest outing of the 2010 season, are lucky to beat Carolina. So in New York, they write about the resiliency and grit of the Jets, while elsewhere the Browns are playing down to their competition. Of course that makes sense because the Browns at that point had played two teams with losing records and had beaten both and their seven losses had come to teams that would be in the playoffs if they started today. Yet would anyone with any sanity claim that the Browns have comparable talent to the Jets?

 

Then finally Monday night happened and Billy and the boys decided it was time to tell Emperor Rex and the NY media that Sexy Rexy was, in fact, strutting around naked this whole time. 45-3? Are you kidding me? What the hell did NY do during those 10 preparation days? Oh, that's right, they searched for the cameras and audio recorders.

 

Look, Rex is a good coach, but an elite one? I think not. Is Mangini an elite one? No, and no one is ready to put him in that category until he can have some success in January.

 

But that being said, I will take Eric as our coach over Rex any day of the week. This is real progress, Browns fans.

 

Am I satisfied with a 5-7 record? Of course not.

Am I excited about the future of our team under Eric? You betcha.

Am I thrilled about the potential of Haden, Ward, and McCoy? Yep.

Am I enjoying watching castoffs/misfits on this squad play their sacks off every Sunday and then profess their love for the fans of this franchise? Absolutely.

Do I think this team is a playoff contender in 2011? Certainly, and I expect it to happen.

 

Great stuff and thanks for the kind words NW Ohio! Whenever I get frustrated my dad always asks me if I remember the last 8 games of 2008 when body by Savage was buried approximately 3 minutes after every coin toss. Like it or not, Cleveland is a roster in transition that ONLY inherited 4 draft picks for the 2009 draft after only netting 1 keeper from the 2008 draft. Aside from that, we had free agent artery blockages named Donte Stallworth, Dave Zastudil, Antwaan Peek, Shaun Smith, Corey Williams, Jamal Lewis (how dare asking a millionaire to extend his work day over 2 hours). Savage gave a Head Coach with a 3-4 scheme for 2 gap football upfront 4 different dlinemen that came from 4 man fronts with 1 gap schemes: Robaire came from TN, Rogers from Detroit, Williams from GB and Smith from Cincy. The only guy playing from that group today is Rogers, who backs up Rubin.

 

I don't think Mangini's biggest critics grasp who bad Stallworth & Edwards boned this franchise in 2009 so they jumped straight to round 2 and felt that was enough evidence for a fair conclusion. How about ADDING 4 more draft picks and several starting rotation guys from the Jets 9-7 defense from 08? This actually what Mangini added BEFORE Holmgren and Heckert:

1) Brian Schaefering - was there a more silent transaction made than this guy that is so helpful on gameday? There can't be!

2) David Bowens - he may be old, he may be tired but that doesn't mean he's unispired...

3) Marcus Benard - Ummmm, who gives a shit about Veikune when this guy is everythign we wanted Veikune to be at less cake.

4) Alex Mack - Quietly one of the reasons our running game became unstoppable near the end of 09 and helps Hillis this year.

5) Kenyon Coleman - Was having one of his best years prior to a high ankle sprain.

6) Matt Roth - you want sic em, sock em & sack em? The former DI wrestler epitomizes playing with leverage & removing an OT's legs.

7) Evan Moore - I like the way Evansville Central gets stealthed into the lineup for big plays.

8) Reggie Hodges - STs player of the month leading the NFL with punts inside the 10 yard line

9) Derreck Robinson - solid rotation guy

10) MoMass - Let's see what he looks like when we add a #1 WR or ex-factor next year

11) Chansi Stuckey - I see enough improvenet in him to wonder why they don't start him over Robo

12) Abram Elam - Count the big plays and turnovers since the NE game and/or the absence of Eric Wright

13) Blake Costanzo - was a STs ace until injury

14) Jason Trusnik - good backup that can play inside or outside

15) Eric Barton - Not one of my favorite ex-Jets here; but D'Qwell is injured again so the staff thinks enough of him to start him.

16) Pork Chop Womack - we're always better when he's healthy enough to start on the right side. He's not the one we confuse with Lee Ann Womack. That was Kevin's Shaffer.

 

Now, how many of those 15 guys I listed look like they came from a guy that doesn't know whether to shit or wynde his wrist watch? Trust me when I say - Mangini knows more than people think he does. When need every damn one of them and they all seem to rotate in with starters and/or spell injury. Therefore, I don't really understand the popularity of criticism about his HOW he was at making personnel decisions. There's always going to be draftees that don't pan out like BB drafting Tommy Vardell in round 1 when Leroy Hoard was already on the roster or drafting Craig Powell, because God forbid someone took Kyle Brady 1 spot earlier in round 1.

 

Just like BB, Mangini's biggest obstacle to winning has been the QB position. BB treated us to football follies by Todd Philcox and he was WINLESS in NE the day Bledsoe was injured and 0-3 or 0-4. Brady took over and he's looked like a genius ever since. Mangini wasn't losing in NY when Favre and Pennington were healthy.

 

What the NY media never wanted any of us to know is Mangini was a college Nose Tackle at Wesleyan College who still holds team records for sacks in 1 season and for a career at that college. I don't have the numbers fresh in my dome but it's archivable goodies for anyone that wants to research it further. The NY media wanted everyone thinking the extent of his football background was being a ballboy on the sidelines.

- Tom F.

[peterbell]

Well said Flugs..I believe Mangini was an Academic All American at Wesleyan and still their career sack leader also.. What I admire about this "process" is Coach Mangini's belief in what type of players should be playing for our Browns and despite ENORMOUS media scrutiny and pressure he stuck to his plan and beliefs..Thats freakin balls..Holmgren doing the right thing tells you the kind of person he is also...I for one appreciate what I'm watching..despite numerous injuries Mangini and the CS seems to adjust and keep moving forward..We haven't heard one "alas woe is me" about losing his best LB-Fujita and his best DL man Smith..NO..next guy up..this is called depth and great coaching fella's..plain and simple..

[Canton Mike]

In the face of EXTREME media & Fan criticism, Mangini has stuck steadfastly to his plan & beliefs. We are seeing the results of his plan this year, & to a greater degree than I anticipated.

He is the type of principled Coach we have needed in Cleveland for a LONG time & we're lucky to have him.

Mike

[roach]

In the face of EXTREME media & Fan criticism, Mangini has stuck steadfastly to his plan & beliefs. We are seeing the results of his plan this year, & to a greater degree than I anticipated.

He is the type of principled Coach we have needed in Cleveland for a LONG time & we're lucky to have him.

Mike

 

Where do you see or hear fan criticism? i'm asking specifically?

[Canton Mike]

Where do you see or hear fan criticism? i'm asking specifically?

 

You see very little now, but last year, there were PLENTY of fans screaming for Mangini's head before the man even had a full season under his belt. I'm not going to go back to look up posts, but if you follow this board, you know he was under severe & frequent fan criticism. The reasoning in my statement was that he never wavered in his convictions, & that is to be admired.

Mike

 

[longhorn]

Personally I think Holmgren and Mangini have bonded is a way that will be good for a long time and Cleveland is going to be a team that other teams hate to play in the future. The best GM's and coaches keep a low profile and do what they think is best, despite what everyone else says. These two guys know what they are doing.

[hoorta]

Where do you see or hear fan criticism? i'm asking specifically?

 

Just trot over to Cleveland.com Ed- that's in the first ten posts, I won't bother to go over any more of the vitriol. However, they do encourage certified morons to post comments after a loss.

 

LORDLVJ:

JD - You say you have to give a coach more than 2 years but you want to fire Daboll, isn't he a coach as well? Mangini hand picked Daboll to come here and approves all of the offensive calls. I'm sure there are meetings to discuss what type of gameplan to run week by week, Mangini is not in the dark about the offense, he hears the plays called and could easily veto anything he doesn't like yet he doesn't. Mangini is responsible for Daboll, if Daboll should be fired then so should the man who hired him.

 

TEEMSTRO:

Not the worst team by far but Mangina and Daboll definitely have to go.

 

JASONJACKSON:

What else can be said about this team? This is clearly the worst team in the NFL. The Clowns show up for the Saints and the Patriots and the Jets, but get walked all over on by the Bills? The entire team should be packed up and shipped out; players, coaches and management. I want to start a campaign to get pro football back to Cleveland.

 

 

HILLDOZER:

sorry to tell you

manginis gone

not one TD against the nfls worst team

yet the talent can spank the jets

run run pass punt

 

FIREMANGININOW

 

Rome wasn't built in a day...but it can be destroyed in a day.

 

Right now we are seeing Mangini and Daboll are doing their best to run this team into the ground and set the franchise back 5 years.

 

[WRREBEL]

Funny thing is that the browns won 4 games last year to save mangini job, could lose 4 straight to cost him his job..

 

 

Mangini don't let the door hit ya on the way out...

 

 

Gruden is a great guy and coach