Bye Bye Mangini

[bringbackbrownie2]

Oh by the way its Jan 1st..you lose..bye bye

 

HAHA the funny part is that he could be fired in 2-3 days yet you still won

 

 

[Buck The Frowns]

"Missed it by -that- much."

Yep, forgot about this but a deal is a deal and I am a man of my word, no more posts. I do wish well to all of you on this board and to your families in the new year, and still predict that if intelligent personnel decisions continue to be made the Browns could have a wild card playoff spot in as little as two years. And imho the first intelligent personnel decision would be to allow Mangini to finish what he has begun, rather than continue with the revolving door of coaches.

 

Once again, good luck and farewell.

 

Buck

[BROWNandORANGE]

Yep, forgot about this but a deal is a deal and I am a man of my word, no more posts. I do wish well to all of you on this board and to your families in the new year, and still predict that if intelligent personnel decisions continue to be made the Browns could have a wild card playoff spot in as little as two years. And imho the first intelligent personnel decision would be to allow Mangini to finish what he has begun, rather than continue with the revolving door of coaches.

 

Once again, good luck and farewell.

 

Buck

 

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

[Mark O]

I'm not a fan of Rivera. Living in San Diego and watching a lot of Chargers games (when they're not blacked out) the defense wasn't as good as the stats would indicate this year.

 

I still hope that Mangini gets another season to continue the progress that we're making.

 

 

[Speedyd900rr]

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

 

 

Im sure he will make a new name and come back trolling harder then ever in a few days, espically if we beat them tomorrow.

[Gips]

All i have to say is that was one helluva good read!

I stand with the illiterate/silent majority of fans that would like to see mangini removed from the browns equation so we can begin heading in the right direction we have the base and the FO now we need a good coach that knows how to take the next step..

However if holmgren thinks mangini is the guy im not going to go ballistic about it until/unless he fails next year on a weak schedule then all hell is going to break loose...

Thusfar holmgren has done nothing that points out that he doesnt know what he is doing and as fans we have no choice but to roll with whatever punches lerner and his minions throw at us and hope for the best..

[nickers]

All i have to say is that was one helluva good read!

I stand with the illiterate/silent majority of fans that would like to see mangini removed from the browns equation so we can begin heading in the right direction we have the base and the FO now we need a good coach that knows how to take the next step..

However if holmgren thinks mangini is the guy im not going to go ballistic about it until/unless he fails next year on a weak schedule then all hell is going to break loose...

 

 

If Holmgren keeps Mangini hes just giving him enablers to make the same mistakes he made this season,next season. Even if we change OC...Mangini will still find a way to misuse the clock and not use timeouts properly...I just cant see the logic in keeping him.

[WRREBEL]

I think I can wait till Monday to see.. Either way, I mean if they do keep mangini i will be disappointed but it will be time to shut up..

[Gips]

If Holmgren keeps Mangini hes just giving him enablers to make the same mistakes he made this season,next season. Even if we change OC...Mangini will still find a way to misuse the clock and not use timeouts properly...I just cant see the logic in keeping him.

 

Thats pretty much the way i see it as well but its holmgrens mistake to make and lerners price to pay at the ticket office..

Im sick of the coach changes like everyone else but we have a good FO now that isnt changing with the coach so we shouldnt settle for anything less than the right guy and lets hope holmgren can tap that guy the first time around...

[Harry Buffalo]

There's alot of speculation right now on what will happen in a few days with our Browns. Some of

the speculation is Grudens getting a Brownie The Elf tattoo on his ass, bags packed waiting

to take over, some of it is Mike Holmgrens sitting in his office like a wee child a few days

before Christmas, waiting to fire Mangini monday morning and play with his new toy. Only Holmgren and

Heckert know what will happen Monday morning. I do want to point out a few things though, as well as speculate

on my own, then mention a few names to keep in mind.

 

 

The first thing I want to point out is we run the 3-4. Our personnel is the 3-4. Neither Holmgren

nor Gruden have any experience running that type of defense. Converting back to the 4-3 would either

take a massive investment NOW, or slowly building towards going 4-3 later. Part of that transition would

mean running a 3-4/4-3 hybrid for a few years. The only problem with that is.... There's a shortage

of DC's availailable who can successfuly run both and transition it. Don't say Rob Ryan, he has failed

at running both systems. That leaves either sticking with the 3-4(with a head coach inexperienced with

it) or a total overhaul. It's a risky proposition, try what you don't know or rebuild. That

may give Holmgren pause.

 

Which leads me to my second point, Holmgrens point of contention that we're aware of is the offense.

He simply doesn't like the Patriots offensive system. It isn't what he knows and enjoys. He's admitted

once already he wasn't enjoying watching the offense play. This seems to be where his coaching itch

continues to creep into and is what's driving him nuts. Although as he stated, as a coach that's something

you're always going to have, his wanting the offense ran his way. On the surface that sounds good for a

Gruden, or himself, or Mariucci, HOWEVER......

 

When he came in here he kind of took on Mangini as sort of a project. A young head coach he could

mentor a bit. A different kind of challenge. I speculate that's where his head is largely at right now.

He has that itch, no doubt but I think he realizes his taking over as a HC is a short term patch that won't

really be a long term solution. The problem is Mangini is a Belicheat disciple. He also needed to sink or

swim on his own this year. That wasn't a fit from the get go. Differing systems, two experienced HC's,

and the coach needing to prove his bones. But what if.... What if there's a happy medium?

 

I don't see the media even considering this and I have to ask why? What if there's a way for

Holmgren to scratch his coaching itch while mentoring a long term head coach? What if he could sink his

teeth into our offense while not being a short term head coach? What if instead of having to scrap the

entire team again there's a way to mesh the 3-4 defense with the WCO? The media hasn't brought it up

because it isn't sexy so i'm bringing it up. There IS a way. Grab a HC candidate with a strong 3-4 defensive

background and engineer the offense for him. Holmgren would get to scratch his itch while building longterm

and the team wouldn't have to totally rebuild again. A win/win. But where to find that guy. You'd need someone

experienced with running a 3-4 defense that isn't predicated on chewing up the clock running on offense 500

times. There's two candidates popping up in my head over and over that depending on what Holmgren is thinking

HAS TO be on our radar.

 

The first... Jim Harbaugh. He runs the WCO at Standford. He runs a 3-4 defense. He's a young prospect. On the

surface he's really the ultimate candidate for Holmgren. Harbaugh is a younger guy that shares Holmgrens

philosophy without alot of NFL experience, a guy Holmgren can mold into his vision. It gives him a project

that will come in and be on the same page day one. He's the hot candidate for the 'Niners supposedly BUT they're

a worse destination than us. Your rope is half as long and the front office is an utter mess. With us he would get

a solid front office with a President and GM that belong to the same coaching philosophy as he does and honestly?

He's a great fit for the AFCN. I wouldn't be surprised if he's near the top of Holmgrens shortlist.

 

The second guy, and a favorite of mine... Ron Rivera. He's young enough(48) to be a longterm solution for over a

decade, he's been a hot candidate for several years now and he's ready to be a head coach. He's also had alot of

success with the 3-4 in San Diego and he's a defensive mastermind. He KNOWS how to build top 10 defenses. Working

for SD he also knows how to scheme a defense with a pass happy offense. Rivera would be a GREAT match for Holmgren.

It gives Holmgren the opportunity to mentor a younger guy, dip his fingers into the offense and architect ANOTHER great

offense all while Rivera assembles and builds the kind of defense he is known for. He also has connections to Heckert via

Andy Reid. It's not as sexy as paying Gruden a fortune but it's a great match. He also brings alot of the same things

to the table as Mangini(and Ryan) thus further smoothing a transition: He coaches smart, tough, fundamentally sound

squads(Mangini) while also being a players coach(Ryan).

 

There's probably others who fit the bill, I haven't really dug that far into it. What i'm looking at is younger, first

time guys who can mesh what we have into a solid TEAM without blowing things up while being a guy Holmgren can mentor.

 

I'm also looking for guys who would put us in a position of building a dream team of sorts. One thing Holmgren said when

he came aboard that stood out to me, one of his biggest mistakes was not building up powerful defenses. With the right guy

who knows defenses he would be able to help facilitate both. In Riveras case you have a defensive genius teamed up with an offensive genius. With Harbaugh you have a guy that runs the same type of 3-4 as Pitt and Baltimore who can bring in a Mike Singletary or Mike Nolan to design a top 10 defense. In other words the potential is there for us to build a Bill Walsh

offense AND a Chuck Noll defense simultaneously.

 

Thoughts? Opinions? I'm just thinking outside the box here. I don't see the obvious options as realistic personally.

It's too obvious and too Cleveland Browns-ish for Holmgren to pull a Butch Davis and try to run the whole show and

the Gruden stuff is too much of a Dan Snyder move. Couple together Holmgrens own words and actions with the reality

of the situation tells me the Retards in the media are talking out of their asses like the other 99% of the times

they speak.

 

First off I would like to point out that Rob has done a good job with this defense. Most of the games we have lost were because of the offense couldn't score enough points and turned the ball over. Having said that I agree he should be promoted to head coach here but I would like to see him stay as Defensive Coordinator. Also I don't think your two choices for HC will work out. Rivera is soso with his offense. He has the players but the d just doesn't seem to hold up, at least not any better than what our current defense can do with Ryan. Even though I don't want Ryan as a head coach here I think he would do a better job as a head coach here compared to Rivera.

 

Harbaugh on the other hand is going to make a great head coach... in a division other than the AFC North. In case you haven't noticed there are two Harbaugh's and the other is currently the head coach of the Ravens. I just don't see this guy taking a job where he has to face his brother twice a year and I wouldn't be surprised if he dodged the AFC all together and only excepted a job in the NFC.

[Richiswhere]

The first thing I want to point out is we run the 3-4. Our personnel is the 3-4. Neither Holmgren

nor Gruden have any experience running that type of defense. Converting back to the 4-3 would either

take a massive investment NOW, or slowly building towards going 4-3 later. Part of that transition would

mean running a 3-4/4-3 hybrid for a few years. The only problem with that is.... There's a shortage

of DC's availailable who can successfuly run both and transition it. Don't say Rob Ryan, he has failed

at running both systems. That leaves either sticking with the 3-4(with a head coach inexperienced with

it) or a total overhaul. It's a risky proposition, try what you don't know or rebuild. That

may give Holmgren pause.

 

 

To be quite honest we don't have the personnel to run the 3-4 defense.

[nickers]

To be quite honest we don't have the personnel to run the 3-4 defense.

 

 

 

Agreed!

[Harry Buffalo]

We're in the bottom of virtually every defensive stat category under his bend but don't break defenses. That isn't a good job and let's be honest here, Browns fans keep overrating the guy. His defenses have historically been middle of the road and destroyed in the run game. Maybe if he stopped worrying about landing a HC job and flapping his mouth off like he's Vince Lombardi his defenses would stop sucking? Maybe.

 

 

 

 

Wannabe Rex will suck as a HC worse than he sucks as a DC, trust me on that one. Comparing him to Rivera is a joke, Riveras defenses have carried teams into the playoffs and a Superbowl, Ryans have done squat. That said how is Rivera soso with "his" offense? He is a defensive coordinator. As for his defenses in San Diego, they're a top 10 D right now. The problem ISN'T Ron Rivera. The problem is their consistently investing all their money into the least important side of the ball while ignoring the defense, letting it suffer with poor draft choices. He has little depth and mediocre players that are getting up in age. Even still he's producing a top 10 defense with trash.

 

 

 

 

 

Are you an only child? Brothers compete with each other. From childhood until death. The Harbaughs are no different. In fact they're VERY competitive with one another and there is little doubt in ANYONES mind who has followed

If Holmgren was really sold on McCoy and the WCO, would he have waited until Round 6 to draft him? This is hypothetical but my gut tells me McCoy would have been drafted by the Browns much earlier if Holmgren envisioned him as a strong NFL candidate to run the WCO in Cleveland - a place quite different than the moderate temperatures of SF.

 

Bottom line is I really don't know how strongly Holmgren is committed to either the WCO or Colt McCoy. Maybe he is and, just maybe, he isn't. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Browns draft a 'franchise' big and strong-armed QB in the first round.

 

Feedback requested. he would LOVE to beat on his brothers team. The Harbaugh boys would love nothing more than to compete for the division every year.

 

Besides that, there's you know, only 32 NFL teams and all. His dream is to what, again? Coach in the NFL! He'll be interested in whatever team comes calling. Including US if we make that call. ESPECIALLY us if his options are to work for a 29 year old owner who'll fire him after 1 full season for not winning the Superbowl(49ers) or come to Cleveland where he has: A top 3 GM, a President who happens to be one of the best ever at his job and a roster that's two offseasons away from being perennial playoff contenders. "Aw shucks Mike, i'd have to play my brother. I better take the 49ers job for a season or two and get fired instead" won't come out of his mouth.

 

We have a bad rush defense with a defense that only has two players that are remotely good against the run (Rubin and Roth) at the beginning of the season when we still had Fujita and Smith our rush defense was top 15 and that was still with only 4 decent players who could do something against the run, Rivera on the other hand DOES have the talent on his defense but he can't stop teams from outscoring the Chargers notably good offense and devastating passing attack. Let me paint a picture for you, the Charges score 25 points a game and are still losing the browns only score about 13-15 a game on average and are only losing games by 5ish points. Plus our defense is also in the top ten in red zone defense, turnovers, and POINTS ALOUD!!! Seriously, I'm not even saying that Ryan is the greatest D Coordinator in the country, might not even be top ten, but at Ryan's worst he is just as good as Rivera is and because of that there is zero reason to kick Ryan out to bring Rivera in.

 

On saying Rivera was an O Coordinator, that is a typo.

 

No I am also not an only child, I understand the idea of sibling rivalry well enough. This season we have seen the Ryan brothers face off and that was all fine and well, but no two groups are the same. But hell why are we even speculating about where Harbaugh will go when his older brother already pointed out to the media that IF his brother leaves Stanford, he will not be in the AFC North because the last thing they want is a freakin' media frenzy twice a year when they would play each other. But he you never know, the enticement of a good front office here at Cleveland could be too much for him to pass up and as I have said, he would make a damn fine head coach.

[TheClevelandSound]

SAY HELLO TO YOURS NEXT HEAD COACH (I can't wait to say I told you so):

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5971586

 

BEREA, Ohio -- As the Cleveland Browns, his all-consuming pet rebuilding project, went through drills earlier this week, team president Mike Holmgren ventured onto the rock-hard practice field and called over kicker Phil Dawson for a chat.

 

With coach Eric Mangini standing only yards away, Holmgren, bundled in a heavy jacket to combat December's biting cold, talked to other players and then with Gil Haskell, his longtime friend and one of the trusted advisers he brought to Cleveland.

 

Last year, Holmgren traded his whistle for an executive's tie.

 

He might be about swap them again.

 

With the Browns perhaps on the verge of a coaching change, quarterback Seneca Wallace believes Holmgren is angling for a return to the sideline.

 

"I kind of do just because things probably haven't turned out the way he wanted on offense and being an offensive guy, I think he still has that itch to come back to coach," said Wallace, who played seven seasons for Holmgren in Seattle. "But at the end of the day, he's going to make the right decision for the rest of the team."

 

Yep, the Browns (5-10) could be getting a makeover. This one, though, might not be quite as extreme.

 

Mangini, given one reprieve by Holmgren last January, may not get a second as the Browns stagger to the finish of another disappointing season -- their ninth with double-digit losses in 12 years. Cleveland has gone just 2-5 since a midseason upset of New England, and unless the Browns can stun Pittsburgh on Sunday, Mangini will close his second year with a four-game losing streak.

 

That may be enough for Holmgren to make a coaching change, assuming he hasn't already made up his mind to replace Mangini, who will carry a 10-21 overall record -- 2-9 vs. the AFC North -- into Sunday's regular-season finale.

 

When Holmgren last met with reporters on Nov. 2, he said he would wait until after the season before making a decision on Mangini. He also left open the possibility of a return to coaching.

 

"I'd be less than honest if I didn't say I get fired up watching the games," he said. "I mean I [coached] for too long not to react sometimes the way I do, but I also recognize what I was hired to do and that's what I'm trying to do."

 

Browns owner Randy Lerner brought in Holmgren to fix his franchise, which has undergone nearly constant change in the past decade.

 

If Mangini gets fired, the 62-year-old Holmgren, who won a Super Bowl with Green Bay and an NFC championship with Seattle, will quickly jump to the top of a list of possible replacements. There could be several other big-name candidates available, including Jon Gruden, John Fox, Bill Cowher and others.

 

But Holmgren simply packing up his belongings and moving down the hall to a new office would cause the least uproar for organization craving calm. Unlike previous years, there doesn't seem to be nearly as much concern about the possibility -- and potential likelihood -- of change.

 

Maybe that's because Holmgren is overseeing it.

 

"He brings credibility to the whole organization," said Dawson, who has seen his share of turnover in 11-plus seasons with Cleveland. "I think if you ask anyone, they would say the same thing. Guys are confident that he knows what he wants to do, and we'll all have to wait and see what happens. But no one seems to be panicking or anything like that."

 

Many Browns fans can't bear the thought of another coaching change, but Wallace believes they should be comforted by Holmgren's presence.

 

"He's a person who is going to build a foundation," said Wallace, who started four games this season. "I don't think over the last couple of years there's been a foundation. There has been a lot of turnover. And I think once you build that foundation and that type of mentality, it's going to build for the future."

 

Has he seen any part of the foundation formed?

 

"I saw a couple of bricks slide in place," he said, "but there's still a lot of building that needs to be done."

 

Holmgren has spent the year evaluating Cleveland's roster, which has been upgraded by general manager Tom Heckert -- Holmgren's first hire. Holmgren knows what's needed and what's not, a fact that would make his potential takeover as coach that much more seamless.

 

Cornerback Sheldon Brown, acquired in an offseason trade with Philadelphia, has faith that the Browns' front office is getting things done.

 

"If they came back here and said, 'Sheldon, we need you to play safety, nickel, dime,' I believe that they know what they're doing to get us to where we need to go," he said. "I just believe in the plan."

 

When Holmgren accepted Lerner's offer to restore the Browns, he did so knowing it would be hard to shake the coaching bug. It's all the former high school history teacher has known since becoming an assistant at his alma mater in San Francisco 40 years ago.

 

Holmgren has enjoyed his executive role, immersing himself into the daily business of the Browns with the same verve as he did as a coach. But shaking hands with season-ticket holders and charming suite holders doesn't provide the same excitement as preparing a game plan to beat the Ravens.

 

He knew turning the Browns into consistent winners would take time, but patience has never been a strong suit.

 

"The problem is that I'm old, and the clock is ticking a little bit for me in this business," Holmgren joked during an interview with The Associated Press in October.

 

He misses the game.

 

It might be time to get back in it.

[peterbell]

Does Eric Mangini Deserve a Third Season With The Cleveland Browns?

By Marc Sessler (Member) on January 2, 2011

 

In a season where four NFL head coaches have been fired heading into Week 17, it doesn't look good for Cleveland Browns coach Eric Mangini.

 

There was a sense midseason that the tenuous connection between president Mike Holmgren and Mangini could work -- and should be forced to work -- after the Browns consecutively dismantled the New Orleans Saints and New England Patriots, only to lose to the hyped-up New York Jets by a hair.

 

All the talk about Holmgren's coaching roots not jiving with the Belichick/Parcells tree seemed half-baked, as the team was suddenly worth three hours of your Sunday. For a shimmering moment, the Browns were the team nobody wanted to face.

 

Problem is, down the stretch, the same Browns team that had played far beyond expectation during a brutal stretch in the schedule -- led by galvanizing rookie quarterback Colt McCoy -- dissembled against soft opponents when McCoy became the third starting passer this season to suffer a high ankle sprain. Jake Delhomme took over, the offensive line took some hits, and the attack never recovered.

 

Had the Browns stayed relatively healthy after the Patriots win, and polished off the few teams they were favored against, Holmgren would have nothing to point to in firing Mangini. This is a coaching staff that's enthused large segments of the Browns' faithful -- downtrodden fans who've watched this team closely since its return in 1999, and finally see signs of progress.

 

 

Some feel that losses to Buffalo and Cincinnati rightfully marked the end of Mangini by giving Holmgren something to hang his hat on in making a change.

 

If Holmgren is truly committed to playing the role of president and not, at some stage, coach of the Browns, it's hard to imagine that those losses, taken in context, mean much of anything.

 

Holmgren sees that Mangini and defensive coordinator Rob Ryan have gotten this Browns team to fight to the end in nearly every game this season. Cleveland's garnered -- for the first time since Reagan was in office -- respect around the league with its gritty style of play, despite a poor talent base.

 

When McCoy plays the Steelers for the second time this season, it will mark the first time under Mangini that the same quarterback has faced a division opponent more than once.

 

Bottom line: Mangini, perhaps to his discredit, has been saddled with some of the worst NFL quarterbacks around (read: Derek Anderson, Brady Quinn, Delhomme), and still managed to keep games close. In McCoy, the Browns feel they have something special.

 

But it's McCoy's emergence that might work against Mangini. Holmgren lives to develop quarterbacks. His (to be fair, distant) reputation for doing so does not come without its fair share of ego and need for control.

 

Holmgren has shown poise and grace as president of the Browns, and he has done a tremendous job in adding value to a previously floating franchise, but not unlike that ever-drunk friend you have -- who, despite promises of sobriety, is guaranteed to show up hammered and surly to your wedding, despite his intentions -- Holmgren is fighting, utterly struggling, against the urge to dispatch the entire coaching staff and take over. Screw this president thing -- GET ME THE HEADSET.

 

 

 

I wonder what was floating through Holmgren's mind watching McCoy out-chess-match Tom Brady on the field, only to trot off to visit with -- Brian Daboll.

 

These days, Holmgren spends portions of his week deciding what concessions will be sold at the stadium -- while the coaching staff down the hall holds the fate of his team in their hands.

 

Had McCoy not hit the scene with such verve -- and had the season plodded along with the excruciating Delhomme under center -- Mangini would likely be swept out of town with full support from the fanbase.

 

Now, with the quarterback piece perhaps in place, Holmgren's left questioning: do I trust anybody but myself with this kid?

 

None of this bodes well:

 

"One of my greatest challenges is I’m up there, and ... I try not to get too boisterous up there," Holmgren told reporters in November. "You’ll see things and you’ll go, ‘Aw, gee.' That’s the coach in me talking and I apologize for that right now. Whether it’s Rob Ryan, who’s a wonderful coach, they’re fine coaches, but when we start moving around on defense and do all of those things, it drives me crazy, but it works. I’m not used to that. This first year in many ways, I’m getting used to a certain style, if you will. I do not question their work ethic and how hard they’re trying to get this done. They are working very hard at this."

 

 

 

 

"I’m doing okay. Does it sound like I want to coach? No, I’m doing okay," Holmgren said. "The challenge of this is really something for me and I’m enjoying the challenge. I’d be less than honest if I didn’t say I get fired up watching the games, I mean I did that for too long not to react sometimes the way I do, but I also recognize what I was hired to do and that’s what I’m trying to do."

 

Followed by this enigmatic gem:

 

"I made a promise and I’m going to stick with it. Now, if I keep wearing a suit or not, we’ll see," he said, adding: "You are catching me at a weak moment. I just came off vacation (joking). I love coaching. I am doing what I am doing now and that’s what I plan to be doing. My commitment is to get the Browns going in the right direction and having people feel good about their football team in my role as the president. When I talk to Randy (Lerner) honestly about those things, I am being honest about it. Right now, that’s what I am going to do."

 

Right now.

 

There has been hideous discussion about Holmgren firing young Eric Mangini for the likes of John Fox, whose contract will not be renewed by the 2-13 Carolina Panthers. That should galvanize the fanbase.

 

Oh, and then there's word that Holmgren is hot on his boy Marty Mornhinweg. I'm not going to waste another sentence on that.

 

 

 

Of course, you get the Jon Gruden talk -- another Holmgren guy.

 

None of it feels right. Mangini, despised last season, and unfairly portrayed in the media, has been a gentleman. This is someone who seems to genuinely care about his players, his coaches, his organization -- and even the media covering him, who have slowly come to see that there may be more to this coach than last season's rough start.

 

Mangini had the courage to take apart a Browns team that was diseased in 2009 -- and it nearly cost him his job. One year later, there is no question the squad has begun to reflect his philosophy of "team first." The lack of wins are an issue -- and there must be results next season, if there is one, but the Browns are not a smoke-and-mirrors team. They are beginning to resemble, in the early stages, an organization built to last.

 

There is an AP story out today about Belichick's work in New England this season, perhaps his finest as a coach. Impossible to name another mid-season, shifting-gears rebuilding job that resulted in 13 wins. The article talks about the "Patriot Way," really just another phrase for the "Belichick Way."

 

Belichick, who 20 seasons ago today was guiding the New York Giants defense to a Super Bowl win over the Buffalo Bills -- days before becoming the Browns head coach, where he worked alongside Ozzie Newsome, the rising personnel man -- on a team that was moved to Baltimore.

 

Had Art Modell not sold his soul, and endured less riches to keep the Browns in C-Town, I would not be writing this column tonight.

 

 

Still, all of this is yesterday. The franchise has a chance this week to exhibit patience and allow a young coach to develop -- this time with the Browns.

 

Dumping Eric Mangini -- especially to address a personal need to return to the sideline -- will be Mike Holmgren's greatest mistake.

 

Win or lose against Pittsburgh on Sunday, it time for this team to stop the cycle of tearing down -- only to half-rebuild and then do it all over again.

 

It is my hope that Mangini will be afforded something Holmgren was given in his time with both the Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks -- a third season.

 

 

[miktoxic]

Yep, forgot about this but a deal is a deal and I am a man of my word, no more posts. I do wish well to all of you on this board and to your families in the new year, and still predict that if intelligent personnel decisions continue to be made the Browns could have a wild card playoff spot in as little as two years. And imho the first intelligent personnel decision would be to allow Mangini to finish what he has begun, rather than continue with the revolving door of coaches.

 

Once again, good luck and farewell.

 

Buck

 

wow, i know the policy is no dealing with terrorists, but can't we swap you for a wrrebel, a shep, a gips and a longhorn?

 

i've mentioned this before but WHEN YOUR ENEMY STARTS GIVING YOU TIPS ON HOW NOT TO LOSE THE WAR OUT OF SYMPATHY then you know shit is in disarray. got fans from lots of teams telling me the same thing. doesn't it take more than two years to get a system in place and work?

 

i love all the factual "i heard it from here" or "this is what's gonna happen because i want it to" or "i have a feeling".......yeah i got one too, it's let's go to the bronx and piss in jeter's face. it'd be great but it ain't gonna happen.

 

and for the other nimrods: do we really want to be the team with a big, fat, red-faced blow-hard holmgren doing a brett favre? hopefully he's got more sense than most of you and remain OFF the freakin sidelines. if he was here in ny, the post would have already put him on the back page with a photoshopped pic of him with a big oily stinkin fish in his mouth. hey mike put the FXXkin DONUTS DOWN. fat fxxk.

 

now go get us some players, douche!!

[Gips]

Since the front office will stay intact regardless its not like we will have to tear down again but rather build on the existing build which is what needs to be done rather mangini is coach or not..

As far as mangini getting a 3rd chance i do not believe he has earned it from multiple stand points and while i agree the vicious cycle must end it needs to end after mangini is replaced by a competent coach..

 

As far as Marty Mornhinweg, jon gruden even john fox goes, any of them would be a major upgrade over mangini and even jim harbaugh would be a safer bet to bring success and an acceptable approach to the game...

[miktoxic]

Since the front office will stay intact regardless its not like we will have to tear down again

 

the vicious cycle must end it needs to end after mangini is replaced by a competent coach..

 

SPEAK IN TONGUES MUCH? if you had another face would that make three?

 

[ATENEARS]

<<<< Mangini had the courage to take apart a Browns team that was diseased in 2009 -- and it nearly cost him his job. One year later, there is no question the squad has begun to reflect his philosophy of "team first." The lack of wins are an issue -- and there must be results next season, if there is one, but the Browns are not a smoke-and-mirrors team. They are beginning to resemble, in the early stages, an organization built to last. >>>>

 

I agree, "it's time for this team to stop the cycle of tearing down -- only to half-rebuild and then do it all over again" and getting rid of Mangini would be the wrong move.

[ballpeen]

No doubt. At some point we have to develop some continuity. I hope that time is now....though i wouldn't be adverse to a change at the coordinator slot.

 

 

 

Maybe time to just insert Haskell??

[alporcini]

from Mary Kay re: Holmgren

 

The Big Show: Will Holmgren descend from his ivory tower for one last coaching hurrah? A case can be made that of all the available candidates, he has the strongest credentials.

He boasts a 161-111 record in 17 seasons as head coach in Green Bay and Seattle, and a 13-11 mark in postseason. He's taken his teams to three Super Bowls and won one, with the Packers in 1996. He also has eight division titles and 12 playoff berths.

On Nov. 2, Holmgren admitted he's considered coaching the Browns when asked if he'll honor his commitment here. "I made a promise and I'm going to stick with it," he said. "Now if I keep wearing a suit or not? We'll see." A day later, on Dan Patrick's radio show, Holmgren re-iterated, "I don't know if [coaching] ever leaves you. [During games] I'm ranting and raving and jumping around and it's a challenge for me."

At 62, it's probably now or never for Holmgren, who's still referred to as "coach." Known for developing Hall of Fame quarterbacks Steve Young and Joe Montana, and future Hall of Famer Brett Favre, he's excited about Colt McCoy.

In addition to the opportunity here, he might get calls from the Cowboys and 49ers.

 

 

What's this about the Cowboys and Niners comin' calling???????? Can anyone here imagine Holmgren LEAVING... Talk about LeBron II.....

[Gips]

Holmgren is going to do what he is going to do and all we can do is watch and debate it, no i cant see holmgren leaving to go to dallas or even san fran..

[Canton Mike]

No doubt. At some point we have to develop some continuity. I hope that time is now....though i wouldn't be adverse to a change at the coordinator slot.

 

 

 

Maybe time to just insert Haskell??

 

When Haskell was first brought here, I thought there was an ulterior motive & still do. I'll be surprised if he's not part of future change(s).

We'll see..........

Mike

[MDDawg]

<<<< Mangini had the courage to take apart a Browns team that was diseased in 2009 -- and it nearly cost him his job. One year later, there is no question the squad has begun to reflect his philosophy of "team first." The lack of wins are an issue -- and there must be results next season, if there is one, but the Browns are not a smoke-and-mirrors team. They are beginning to resemble, in the early stages, an organization built to last. >>>>

 

I agree, "it's time for this team to stop the cycle of tearing down -- only to half-rebuild and then do it all over again" and getting rid of Mangini would be the wrong move.

Second that, we should keep Mangini as stated above with or without a new offensive coordinator.

[ClevelandFanForLife]

This is the most likely of all scenarios for a number of reasons.

 

1. Holmgren has said he would not rule out coaching again.

 

2. It fits Lerner's financial commitment as opposed to hiring....and paying.....a head coach.

 

3. It fit's for now because a big name coach wouldn't come to Cleveland until the Browns demonstrate that they can turn the organization around. If Holmgren can turn it around this sets the stage for a big name coach to come in after 4-5 years of steady improvement.

 

It all makes too much sense!

It makes all to much sense to pay 3 head coaches next year? I think that is one of the reasons why we keep Mangini.

[ClevelandFanForLife]

Look at it from a business stand point. They have to pay Mangini regardless......but!........if they don't believe that Mangini is the coach of the future they have to get rid of him and start the rebuilding process with the pieces of the puzzle they believe to be the future.

I see your point, but think that we would still be jumping the gun with this decision. I think that Holmgren realizes that he could have done any better with this group of players.

[Harry Buffalo]

If Holmgren coaches anywhere, it will be here, and there is a very small chance that will happen. I would make sense for him to do so from money stand point because if we fire Mangini then we still have to pay him next year along with whatever coach we hire, but if Holmgren takes over as coach he is already getting paid so we will only be paying what we are paying this year.

 

Other than that I look for Holmgren to do one of two things.

 

1: He talks to Mangini and says that they are going to retain him for one more season, but that the team will be running a WCO. Over the course of the offseason Holmgren will talk to Mangini and coach him in the area of WCO to get him more used to it and the WCO Coordinator that is brought in will have all control of the offensive plays. (I believe that this works out because Mangini really doesn't know shit about offense anyway, but does good with defense and as being an actual head coach which involves motivation, inspiration, ect)

 

2: Mangini gets fired and we see a WCO head coach come in.

[kshutchins]

<<<< Mangini had the courage to take apart a Browns team that was diseased in 2009 -- and it nearly cost him his job. One year later, there is no question the squad has begun to reflect his philosophy of "team first." The lack of wins are an issue -- and there must be results next season, if there is one, but the Browns are not a smoke-and-mirrors team. They are beginning to resemble, in the early stages, an organization built to last. >>>>

 

I agree, "it's time for this team to stop the cycle of tearing down -- only to half-rebuild and then do it all over again" and getting rid of Mangini would be the wrong move.

 

I agree.

 

[ballpeen]

One never knows how a contract is worded, but I would be shocked if Holmgren has a out clause to go coach another team.

[WRREBEL]

Good article..

 

 

This one isn't that good, but

 

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/112756624.html