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Bye Bye Mangini

Buck The Frowns

By Buck The Frowns
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bringbackbrownie2 Newbie

bringbackbrownie2

Posted
Posted
who the F is: Brian Murtaugh (Browns Featured Columnist)?

 

sounds like another wannabe journalist who writes jibberish from his basement. more conjecture.

 

no matter what side you fall on (fire mangini/pro-mangini) i guess we'll find out soon enough what will happen with this situation.

 

He calls himself a "browns featured columnist" and writes that?! :wacko: Does he know anything about Holmgren and the Browns?! That is some embarrassing bull**** right there haha. If Holmgren did that, he would lose a TON of respect around the NFL... We have him under contract for like 5 or so years too. A 49er columnist probably wouldn't write something like this either. seriously... this is why you don't believe everything you read.

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miktoxic Newbie

miktoxic

Posted
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there are going to be a lot of coaching vacancies without even mentioning the browns.

 

san fran, carolina, tennessee, denver, maybe houston, maybe dallas and miami? minnesota?

 

where are all these high profile, top-of-the-line coaches supposed to be coming from? who's going to be available that is guaranteed to turn a team around in two years? gruden, cowher, fisher, maybe jim harbaugh?

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mopaji Newbie

mopaji

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When are you ppl gonna understand...Its Heckert and Holmgren building the team...not Mandoodoo.

 

 

Mangini started it with the roster purging and fixing the cap nightmare left behind by Savage. And by all documented accounts, Mangini had more to do with the last draft than Holmgren save for McCoy. Not to mention the attitude and identity has been drastically improved in just two years! That is on the head coach and he alone. We all know that if succeed Holmgren will get the credit, and he should get some, but if we fail, Mangini will get hung and Holmgren will get away unscaithed. That's the dynamic here. But don't forget so quickly what a mess of an entire orginization Mangini walked into just two years ago and look at it now. The dude is a really good coach and none of us should want to watch this team get torn down and rebuilt again. Just like last year, I have faith that Holmgren is smart enough to keep Mangini and I expect to have that faith validated again this year. Difference being, the announcement will come much sooner this time.

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peterbell Newbie

peterbell

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The Browns are going to finish somewhere between 5th and 10th in scoring defense with a defense that Mangini built from scratch..which will be the best the Browns have done since 1994 I believe..in less than 2 years mind you. I will lose all hope for this franchise if they break it down for another rebuild..This need for instant gratification in this country is sickening and will be our downfall.Not to philosophy but it takes time to BUILD anything the right way..anyone who's done it and with a lick of intelligence knows this..

 

Don't give me the long suffering fan crap..Mangini is not responsible for anything pre 2009..This franchise was a garbage heap before he arrived and we all know this and the improvement is plentiful except in W's and L's..I know about bottom lines but the direction of the Browns is positive and being done correctly..If Holmgren lets Mangini go it will be an unmitigated disaster..mark my words,

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WRREBEL Newbie

WRREBEL

Posted
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there are going to be a lot of coaching vacancies without even mentioning the browns.

 

san fran, carolina, tennessee, denver, maybe houston, maybe dallas and miami? minnesota?

 

where are all these high profile, top-of-the-line coaches supposed to be coming from? who's going to be available that is guaranteed to turn a team around in two years? gruden, cowher, fisher, maybe jim harbaugh?

 

I think the 49ers will pimp real hard to get a high profile coach. They are trying to get a stadium approved so they want to show the fans they care.. To the 49ers its all about smoke and mirrors.

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hoorta Veteran

hoorta

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Does anyone know if the 49ers would have to compensate us?

 

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/55520...Francisco_49ers

 

The answer would be yes- to the tune of two first round draft picks.

 

Would the Niners be willing to give up that much? Doubtful for a guy who would only want to coach a year or two at most. And MH wouldn't want to go to a depleted team with no ammunition stockpiled. AND wasn't MH on record this was his last stop? The guy does appear to be a straight shooter.

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Kosar_For_President Newbie

Kosar_For_President

Posted
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Who knows it all BS, them writing stories because they dont know have anything else to do. I just read a story that Gruden would go to the Vikings and talk Brett Farve to come back and play for another season..

 

 

http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_16912129

 

I think it's the Onion for sports.

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hoorta Veteran

hoorta

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The 3-4 is predicated on four outstanding LB's who are complete players and three DL's who can hold the line of scrimmage. The Browns did not have that when they switched and still do not. It was an ill advised switch with the then and current personnel. I think the 3-4 is an overall better D than the 4-3 but the personnel should dictate which you play. Belichick has used both mostly 3-4 but 4-3 when his personnel suited it better. Good coaches adapt game plans and schemes to their people and rebuild with people that fit best in their preferred game strategy.

 

Ah, Master Ricardo, on this we can agree. Of the Browns front seven, how many could be starting for your beloved Steelers? I'd say Rubin, and that's about it. Fatso Rodgers, Roth, and Fujita would be adequate backups. But it's impossible to drag in 7 Pro Bowlers for the front seven in 2 years. Look for at least a couple significant upgrades there in the off season.

 

BUT- give Ryan credit- he's been doing some crazy stuff to minimize the talent shortcomings there. UFO defense? The 1-6-4 he pulled out a couple of times in obvious passing situations?

 

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cddbrowns Newbie

cddbrowns

Posted
Posted

Mike Nolan

4-12

7-9

5-11

2-5

 

Herman Edwards

10-6 (Jets)

9-7

6-10

10-6

4-12

 

9-7 (Chiefs)

4-12

2-14

 

Gregg Williams

3-13

8-8

6-10

 

and my personal favorite since it appears to be the closest to Mangini. Bill Walsh please. Mangini looks to be on the Dave Campo path to coaching stardom.

 

Dave Campo

5-11

5-11

5-11

 

Same goes for Chuck Noll...

1-13

5-9

6-8

 

What about Tom Landry?

0-11

4-9

5-8

4-10

5-8

 

Walsh went 8-24 in his first two seasons, getting outscored by over 200 points in those two seasons. He took over for a team that went 7-23 in the two years before he took over, and only lost by 170 points.

 

Why wasn't Walsh fired after his first two seasons?

 

Sure, he had a washed up Steve DeBerg at QB, with a young Joe Montana waiting in the wings for Walsh's 3rd season. But, if wins & losses are the bottom line, regardless of talent, injuries, schedule, etc., why wasn't he fired?

 

Again, I'm on the fence with Mangini. Just want to know how some of you are convinced that he needs to go, considering he's had to use 3 QB's, has a bottom third team in regards to talent, and played a top 3 schedule.

 

Please convince us non-believer's or not convinced either way..

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nickers Grand Master

nickers

Posted
Posted
Mike Nolan

4-12

7-9

5-11

2-5

 

Herman Edwards

10-6 (Jets)

9-7

6-10

10-6

4-12

 

9-7 (Chiefs)

4-12

2-14

 

Gregg Williams

3-13

8-8

6-10

 

and my personal favorite since it appears to be the closest to Mangini. Bill Walsh please. Mangini looks to be on the Dave Campo path to coaching stardom.

 

Dave Campo

5-11

5-11

5-11

 

Same goes for Chuck Noll...

1-13

5-9

6-8

 

What about Tom Landry?

0-11

4-9

5-8

4-10

5-8

 

Walsh went 8-24 in his first two seasons, getting outscored by over 200 points in those two seasons. He took over for a team that went 7-23 in the two years before he took over, and only lost by 170 points.

 

Why wasn't Walsh fired after his first two seasons?

 

Sure, he had a washed up Steve DeBerg at QB, with a young Joe Montana waiting in the wings for Walsh's 3rd season. But, if wins & losses are the bottom line, regardless of talent, injuries, schedule, etc., why wasn't he fired?

 

Again, I'm on the fence with Mangini. Just want to know how some of you are convinced that he needs to go, considering he's had to use 3 QB's, has a bottom third team in regards to talent, and played a top 3 schedule.

 

Please convince us non-believer's or not convinced either way..

 

 

 

 

 

First off...Its alot different now with Free agency then it was then...back then most players finished with the team they started with...Im talking back when Walsh, Landry and Knoll coached. Dave Campo or Mangini will never be confused with any of them.

Why I feel Mangini needs to go...well...he plays for filed goals instead of touchdowns...he wastes time outs or doesnt use them properly and hes a terrible game clock manager and shows little or no faith in his team...I dont need a 3rd year of 5-11 to see that again. thirdly Mangini and Holmgren are as far apart in philosophy as you can get...I really think Holmgren wants "His" type of coaches and schemes. Lastly...I DONT HATE MANGINI!...I hate the way he coaches...He coaches like a scaredy cat afraid to lose and winds up doing just that "LOSE"

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ballpeen Experienced

ballpeen

Posted
Posted
You do realize that Hillis played the whole game with a back and rib injury, not to mention the knee injury that he just got over this week. I sorry the guy that is responsible for 50% of our offense has to play through injuries that most others would just sit out with. I would have honestly been more happy if Vickers had just shut his mouth and played the game. I would rather guys just shut up the other team with their play instead of firing back like a bunch of dip shits. If you want a team of jawing dicks then start rooting for the Bengals.

 

 

I agree.

 

 

Talks cheap. It takes money to buy whiskey.

 

Just play the game and let the other team flap their lips.

 

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Buck The Frowns Newbie

Buck The Frowns

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Posted
Mike Nolan

4-12

7-9

5-11

2-5

 

Herman Edwards

10-6 (Jets)

9-7

6-10

10-6

4-12

 

9-7 (Chiefs)

4-12

2-14

 

Gregg Williams

3-13

8-8

6-10

 

and my personal favorite since it appears to be the closest to Mangini. Bill Walsh please. Mangini looks to be on the Dave Campo path to coaching stardom.

 

Dave Campo

5-11

5-11

5-11

 

Same goes for Chuck Noll...

1-13

5-9

6-8

 

What about Tom Landry?

0-11

4-9

5-8

4-10

5-8

 

Walsh went 8-24 in his first two seasons, getting outscored by over 200 points in those two seasons. He took over for a team that went 7-23 in the two years before he took over, and only lost by 170 points.

 

Why wasn't Walsh fired after his first two seasons?

 

Sure, he had a washed up Steve DeBerg at QB, with a young Joe Montana waiting in the wings for Walsh's 3rd season. But, if wins & losses are the bottom line, regardless of talent, injuries, schedule, etc., why wasn't he fired?

 

Again, I'm on the fence with Mangini. Just want to know how some of you are convinced that he needs to go, considering he's had to use 3 QB's, has a bottom third team in regards to talent, and played a top 3 schedule.

 

Please convince us non-believer's or not convinced either way..

Now that is interesting. I had no idea that Landry's record was so awful the first five years. They'd never allow that now, he would have been selling insurance or something later instead of going to Super Bowls. Though you only show the first three years, Noll's teams showed steady improvement, never looked back or significantly regressed.

 

I hope Mangini gets the chance to finish what he has started. Three and out repeatedly is bad for head coaches but seems to be the way things are done. I think if a coach knows he has a short time to get it done he does things differently that if he can build for the long term.

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WRREBEL Newbie

WRREBEL

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Now that is interesting. I had no idea that Landry's record was so awful the first five years. They'd never allow that now, he would have been selling insurance or something later instead of going to Super Bowls. Though you only show the first three years, Noll's teams showed steady improvement, never looked back or significantly regressed.

 

I hope Mangini gets the chance to finish what he has started. Three and out repeatedly is bad for head coaches but seems to be the way things are done. I think if a coach knows he has a short time to get it done he does things differently that if he can build for the long term.

 

We live in a whole different era, as some one has already pointed out. You can not compare those days to now.. Back then, there wasnt as good as scouting, or college athletes playing football.

 

Its like comparing Porn back then to porn now

 

 

 

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cddbrowns Newbie

cddbrowns

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We live in a whole different era, as some one has already pointed out. You can not compare those days to now.. Back then, there wasnt as good as scouting, or college athletes playing football.

 

Its like comparing Porn back then to porn now

 

Only difference is the body hair?

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miktoxic Newbie

miktoxic

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First off...Its alot different now with Free agency then it was then...back then most players finished with the team they started with...Im talking back when Walsh, Landry and Knoll coached. Dave Campo or Mangini will never be confused with any of them.

but that just makes the argument for the pro-mangini side. isn't it harder nowadays because of free agency? especially if you're not a big money spender in that game (last year was different)? 'back then' these HOF coaches could have their draft picks for their entire career if they wanted and watch the fruition of their system thru the personnel.

 

now you've got guys unhappy with their contracts 2 yrs after they sign a five year deal and threaten hold outs or 'trade me'.

 

so comparing coaching back then and now you'd have to say it's tougher NOW.

 

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cddbrowns Newbie

cddbrowns

Posted
Posted
Actually, implants, hair, curves, tans the acting..

 

ACTING?!?!?!?! HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Still the pool boy showing up at a house with no pool, and a crazy bass guitar in the background going "BOW CHICKA WOW WOWWWW" (acting)

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Canton Mike Newbie

Canton Mike

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Posted
"I am beginning to think you have demensia!"

 

It's dementia, FWIW. and when I have to call out the spelling police, that's about as low as I've ever sunk. Dr. Hoorta thinks you have an obsessive-compulsive disorder in regards to Gruden- or you're related to him. Gruden isn't even necessarily the best available option from a coaching standpoint- I'd take Fisher or Fox over him- their resumes are equally impressive.

 

A couple of things to keep in mind (courtesy of AOL) WRREBEL when you consider "celebrity'' coaches, notably Jon Gruden and Bill Cowher: No coach who has won a Super Bowl has ever won a second with a new team (and Mike Shanahan doesn't look like he's about to win anything soon.) Example: Bill Parcells kept going a level lower at each stop -- two Super Bowl wins with the Giants; a Super Bowl loss with the Patriots; an AFC championship game with the Jets; and a one-and-done in the playoffs with the Cowboys.

 

Loyalty? Bulls**t. I want stability. Mangini happens to have a plan, just doesn't have enough horses yet to pull it off. If Holmgren decides Mangini isn't the answer I'll defer to his (far better) judgment than mine. And trust me I won't shed a tear if Eric walks the plank. I will say this- if Mangini (assuming he's still here) doesn't produce a significant number of wins say about nine- next year, then I'll be totally in favor of canning him.

 

What I find really amazing is the short attention span of the Can-gini crowd. There hasn't been a coach in recent (1999) Browns history that's been given such a short leash by a segment of the fanbase. Not Palmer, not Davis, not Crennell- you mean to tell me in your mind(s) EMs worse than any of those? . The NY anti-Mangini bias got picked up by ESPN, then Grossi & company, and then the lapdogs that are burned out and want instant gratification.

 

Mangini Has Players support

 

MorningGlory for coach? I'd have to shoot myself.

 

Absolutely one of the BEST posts I have read on this subject. NO Coach would produce a winning season with our talent level combined with the injuries to key starters. I will also leave the decision making to Holmgren et al. They are the experts, & it's Holmgren's Team to build.

I certainly don't hold Mangini "harmless" as I was not happy with his clock management, but IMHO, his biggest mistake(s) (which could have been disastrous) was continuing to play starters in a game AFTER they were injured (all 3 QBs & Hillis earlier this season).

Bottom line is that Holmgren will make the decision & I will live with it as a lifelong Brown's Fan.

Mike

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rich4eagle Newbie

rich4eagle

Posted
Posted
So? Belichick never won a SB without Mangini on his staff...

 

Zombo

 

As usual Zombo you do great with nonsense..................Parcells won his last Super going on twenty years ago.....and not a playoff game since without Belichick..............and yep won squat since without Belichick.........and Belichick won three super bowls this decade and a lot of playoff games with and without Mangini

 

You win dumbidioicy rules

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rich4eagle Newbie

rich4eagle

Posted
Posted
Ah, Master Ricardo, on this we can agree. Of the Browns front seven, how many could be starting for your beloved Steelers? I'd say Rubin, and that's about it. Fatso Rodgers, Roth, and Fujita would be adequate backups. But it's impossible to drag in 7 Pro Bowlers for the front seven in 2 years. Look for at least a couple significant upgrades there in the off season.

 

BUT- give Ryan credit- he's been doing some crazy stuff to minimize the talent shortcomings there. UFO defense? The 1-6-4 he pulled out a couple of times in obvious passing situations?

 

Well again we agree

 

Further in general on a completely different subject..............I am amused how fools think the OC dictates the offensive strategy............rather than just executing the strategy

 

THERE IS NO HEAD COACH WHO LETS THE OC DICTATE OFFENSIVE STRATEGY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,NOT FOR LONG ANYWAY

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htownbrown Collaborator

htownbrown

Posted
Posted
Good post, Bringbackbrownie, we basically agree

 

First Mangini inherited the crap Sewage left him and did admrably to make it competitive

true..

we agree

 

 

But staying in games and losing is not winning that's what happens when you play defensive football

no thats what happens when you don't have enough talent and you are still in the rebuilding process...

my statement is true and so is yours

 

 

Holmgren knows offensive football wins championships

He knows that a team needs talent to win championships.. you don't need the best offense in the league, but 30th in offense aint gonna cut it...

we agree on talent and offensive talent is most important to win championships in the NFL 2010

 

my guess is he will create an offensive team to just that..............with a coach who thinks likewise.........

He could no doubt hire a new coach that specializes in offense but that doesn't mean that he will ignore the defense. this isn't college football...

We violently agree. I never said he will ignore defense or that a crappy defense is acceptable. Winning coaches know a good defense is required but a really good offense is required.

 

 

and Heckert is already onboard

fair enough

again we agree

Seems to me like we are on the same basic page all around. And that is why my gut tells me Holmgren will have a new coach next year

 

Since you love the Stoolers so much then explain how they won the SB with an average at best offense. Your crazy if you don't think the Stoolers won purely on defense.

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