shepwrite Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Just read an article by one of the Football Outsiders guys talking about what a great fit McCoy will be for the WCO. Holmgren will coach him up on hot reads, and one of McCoy's best traits is making sudden throws with less than optimal stance to a quick-slant WR... in stride. It's a staple of the WCO, a WR gashing an angle at about 5 yards, catching the ball at full speed, and galloping for 25 yards. It's a sight Browns fans should be dreaming about right now. The WCO has always featured big receivers who can catch in traffic, shed tackles, and make yards after the ball is in their hands. All of Green Bay's guys (Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Driver) are fantastic YAC guys. Favre had Sharpe and others. Montana and Young had Rice and Taylor. This draft is overflowing with big passcatchers -- Green, Jones, Blackmon, Baldwin, and Floyd are all first day picks, most in round one. Green is likely to go in the first few picks now, maybe even #1 overall, so the other guys are the ones we should discuss. ND's Michael Floyd just had a big Sun Bowl against Miami (6/109/2) to finish strong. In three years, he had about 2,600 yards receiving, about 1,100 this past year. Speaking of strong, he's 6'3" and 230 pounds, a big brute of a receiver who can go up and get it. He's slipped out of the conversation, but he's expected to declare soon (he's a junior) and you can watch him rise up the ranks just like Blackmon did. A Rams insider mock just put him at #14. I'd be shocked to see him get out of round one... so I'll say he slots in the 14-32 range. He's been dinged here and there, but he's healthy now. He also had a good game in the finale against USC to get into the bowl. He seems ideal for the WCO and would look great opposite Breaston (I can dream). Blackmon had a MONSTER year and he has decent size (6'1", 207). Baldwin is the biggest of all, very Vincent Jackson, and expected to go in the 28-35 area because he lacks deep speed. They said the same thing about Vincent Jackson. Julio Jones is a monster to look at and a terrific talent who closed strong, but his hands have been questioned. Blackmon, Jones, and Floyd are almost sure things for round one. Baldwin is probable, but could end up early 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDDawg Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Just read an article by one of the Football Outsiders guys talking about what a great fit McCoy will be for the WCO. Holmgren will coach him up on hot reads, and one of McCoy's best traits is making sudden throws with less than optimal stance to a quick-slant WR... in stride. It's a staple of the WCO, a WR gashing an angle at about 5 yards, catching the ball at full speed, and galloping for 25 yards. It's a sight Browns fans should be dreaming about right now. The WCO has always featured big receivers who can catch in traffic, shed tackles, and make yards after the ball is in their hands. All of Green Bay's guys (Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Driver) are fantastic YAC guys. Favre had Sharpe and others. Montana and Young had Rice and Taylor. This draft is overflowing with big passcatchers -- Green, Jones, Blackmon, Baldwin, and Floyd are all first day picks, most in round one. Green is likely to go in the first few picks now, maybe even #1 overall, so the other guys are the ones we should discuss. ND's Michael Floyd just had a big Sun Bowl against Miami (6/109/2) to finish strong. In three years, he had about 2,600 yards receiving, about 1,100 this past year. Speaking of strong, he's 6'3" and 230 pounds, a big brute of a receiver who can go up and get it. He's slipped out of the conversation, but he's expected to declare soon (he's a junior) and you can watch him rise up the ranks just like Blackmon did. A Rams insider mock just put him at #14. I'd be shocked to see him get out of round one... so I'll say he slots in the 14-32 range. He's been dinged here and there, but he's healthy now. He also had a good game in the finale against USC to get into the bowl. He seems ideal for the WCO and would look great opposite Breaston (I can dream). Blackmon had a MONSTER year and he has decent size (6'1", 207). Baldwin is the biggest of all, very Vincent Jackson, and expected to go in the 28-35 area because he lacks deep speed. They said the same thing about Vincent Jackson. Julio Jones is a monster to look at and a terrific talent who closed strong, but his hands have been questioned. Blackmon, Jones, and Floyd are almost sure things for round one. Baldwin is probable, but could end up early 2nd. That's why the front office should get Steve Smith here in FA, one of the best YAC receivers available this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepwrite Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 That's why the front office should get Steve Smith here in FA, one of the best YAC receivers available this offseason. He's questionable for next season. His injury was really bad. Next year might be a rehab year for Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepwrite Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 BTW, Grossi is saying that McCoy's arm strength and bad weather struggles ARE an issue Holmgren and others will discuss. If the Browns go WCO, as expected, it's less of an issue because it focuses on the considerable talents McCoy DOES have (accuracy, intelligence, anticipation, mobility, etc.). But if the Browns were to hire Mike Mularkey, for instance, Mularkey might want to go after Ryan Mallett, who seems like the prototypical AFC North QB, the love child of Flacco and Roethlisberger. The Browns would still need to upgrade at WR, but maybe it's Steve Breaston and a speedster in round 3 (assuming defense in round 2). Interesting to watch. If the Browns hire Mularkey, and he's seen as one of the "gets," then I'm not as positive about McCoy being a lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshirtfan Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 BTW, Grossi is saying that McCoy's arm strength and bad weather struggles ARE an issue Holmgren and others will discuss. If the Browns go WCO, as expected, it's less of an issue because it focuses on the considerable talents McCoy DOES have (accuracy, intelligence, anticipation, mobility, etc.). But if the Browns were to hire Mike Mularkey, for instance, Mularkey might want to go after Ryan Mallett, who seems like the prototypical AFC North QB, the love child of Flacco and Roethlisberger. The Browns would still need to upgrade at WR, but maybe it's Steve Breaston and a speedster in round 3 (assuming defense in round 2). Interesting to watch. If the Browns hire Mularkey, and he's seen as one of the "gets," then I'm not as positive about McCoy being a lock. If they go with a different quarterback, they need to get maximum value out of McCoy when they trade him. He's worth too much to be shoved into a #2 role, but the last two games might have reduced his value somewhat. I wonder if they'd spend a year developing him as a #1 guy and look for another QB next year to trade him as a franchise QB for a team that doesn't play many cold weather games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 If they go with a different quarterback, they need to get maximum value out of McCoy when they trade him. He's worth too much to be shoved into a #2 role, but the last two games might have reduced his value somewhat. I wonder if they'd spend a year developing him as a #1 guy and look for another QB next year to trade him as a franchise QB for a team that doesn't play many cold weather games. Why do people say, train him up to be a franchise QB so we can then trade him. You train someone to be a franchise QB so he can be YOUR franchise QB, not so you can get some trade value on him. I think that if we bring in a guy who doesn't run a WCO or a short pass route type of system then there is a chance that we draft QB. That doesn't necessarily mean we trade McCoy but if we do we can likely get back a 3rd rounder if we ship him to a WCO team. Plus he has only had 2 games in cold weather and everyone wants to ship him out because they were bad games. For some reason everyone forgets that 1: he is a rookie, 2: those games were against the top two defenses in the NFL, and 3: you can develop and learn how to play in cold and windy weather. Kids from Flordia or Texas come up and play college ball in ohio all the time and they still manage to learn how to play in our weather and do a good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted January 7, 2011 Report Share Posted January 7, 2011 Mccoy has a decent arm but the under throws in bad weather are concerning and the texas boy just looked plain cold out there.. He had to start looking like a rooke at some point what better team to do it against than a defense thats the best against the run and pass, mccoy was out of character too, as he has been taught to be a hand off machine under daboll and was now being told to go out and go deep to WRs that are use to being blocking sponges instead of WRs.. Had our offense been taught to be more aggressive throughout the year who knows what could have happened..the kid has 7 games under his belt most against elite teams, im not worried about him.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepwrite Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 McCoy's arm is an issue until it isn't, to paraphrase Yogi Berra. If teams get away with cheating up safeties against him? They will. It's what happened to Bernie after the injury and it's pretty much the end. At some point, a WR has to beat one-on-one and McCoy has to be able to get him the ball downfield, on target. Not 55 yards in the air, mind you... that pass happens about five times in a whole season. But 30 yards. He has to be able to go 37 yards including dropback without flutter, on target, and with some zip. Yeah, sometimes when it's 25 degrees. He didn't look good trying to do that the last two weeks and Grossi isn't a nuckfut for saying it's something to think about. Steve D. said the same thing. McCoy has to continue getting stronger and more confident going downfield, like Brees did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 The Browns must NOT draft Mallet. I can't take another DA. In fact, I think Mallet and DA are cousins or clones or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 He didn't look good trying to do that the last two weeks and Grossi isn't a nuckfut for saying it's something to think about. Steve D. said the same thing. McCoy has to continue getting stronger and more confident going downfield, like Brees did. Shep ***************************** I wish McCoy had had Drew Brees' wr's this past year..... It's dumb for Grossi to worry about McCoy, without the other pieces of the offense not yet in place, I think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepwrite Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Again, to go Yogi... you worry about him until you don't have reasons to worry. Brees caused worry... until he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36Bones Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Why would you even want to throw Colt in the trash? The WCO is where he'll be comfortable. He hasn't played enough games to judge him yet. This merry-go-round hell is never going to end. There's always a leprechaun smoking crack at the end of the rainbow. I just don't think someone else is going to waltz in here, and do any better in their first year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 The Browns must NOT draft Mallet. I can't take another DA. In fact, I think Mallet and DA are cousins or clones or something... Whooee!!! He's got ideal size and can toss a laser- to the other team. So could DA. Shep, you're outnumbered already. I'll assume you watched the OSU- Razorback game- so please tell me about all the other redeeming qualities you saw in Mallett. I saw a guy with lead feet, a slow release, generally inaccurate, couldn't check down worth a damn when his primary receiver wasn't open, and couldn't look off a defender. Good Lord, I'd hold my nose and take Cam Newton over this stiff if I was forced to take a quarterback in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepwrite Posted January 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Whooee!!! He's got ideal size and can toss a laser- to the other team. So could DA. Shep, you're outnumbered already. I'll assume you watched the OSU- Razorback game- so please tell me about all the other redeeming qualities you saw in Mallett. I saw a guy with lead feet, a slow release, generally inaccurate, couldn't check down worth a damn when his primary receiver wasn't open, and couldn't look off a defender. Good Lord, I'd hold my nose and take Cam Newton over this stiff if I was forced to take a quarterback in the first round. I don't want Ryan Mallett. I think he's a horrible fit for the WCO and I think McCoy should get a year in the offense that suits him best. I've said that about 100 times, H. He's not very good on the move at all. I've never been a huge Mallett fan. Not my type of QB at all, actually. My favorite is Aaron Rodgers and second is Drew Brees. Like Mallett's arm, sure. I'm just saying what a guy like Mularkey might say. Keep in mind that Derek Anderson never had a year remotely CLOSE to the two Mallett had, so he'll get comparisons to Ben and Flacco, not DA. Off to the side, there's already talk that he has some Leaf-ish qualities. He's had a booze-related bust and there are whispers that there will be more coming to the surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NW Ohio Brownie Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 BTW, Grossi is saying that McCoy's arm strength and bad weather struggles ARE an issue Holmgren and others will discuss. If the Browns go WCO, as expected, it's less of an issue because it focuses on the considerable talents McCoy DOES have (accuracy, intelligence, anticipation, mobility, etc.). But if the Browns were to hire Mike Mularkey, for instance, Mularkey might want to go after Ryan Mallett, who seems like the prototypical AFC North QB, the love child of Flacco and Roethlisberger. The Browns would still need to upgrade at WR, but maybe it's Steve Breaston and a speedster in round 3 (assuming defense in round 2). Interesting to watch. If the Browns hire Mularkey, and he's seen as one of the "gets," then I'm not as positive about McCoy being a lock. Hey shep: F*** what Grossi says, ok? Colt's arm is more than adequate. It's the f**** p.o.s. talent on the edges that are the problem. Dude is the most accurate QB I have seen in the brown and orange since Bernie and we all know who wins the mobility comparison there. I have watched Mallett quite a bit these last two years and this dude is frighteningly accurate downfield with a big arm . . . . until pressure comes. Then he makes poor decisions or takes sacks at bad times. Love the guy, but he will struggle to make plays when the protection breaks down. Reminds me of Brady, though, with a stronger arm: stands tall in the pocket, deadly accurate, ball gets from a to b quickly. This is Colt's team in 2011, though. Get him some studs on the edge. If we can get Green and a FA, or a DL with our first pick and then Floyd/Blackmon, I am ok with that. But we cannot go through another off-season without targeting an offensive playmaker early in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaygroundLegend Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Say hello to Titus Young, available in a second round nearest to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaak Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Mccoy has a decent arm but the under throws in bad weather are concerning and the texas boy just looked plain cold out there.. He had to start looking like a rooke at some point what better team to do it against than a defense thats the best against the run and pass, mccoy was out of character too, as he has been taught to be a hand off machine under daboll and was now being told to go out and go deep to WRs that are use to being blocking sponges instead of WRs.. Had our offense been taught to be more aggressive throughout the year who knows what could have happened..the kid has 7 games under his belt most against elite teams, im not worried about him.. I grew up in NE Ohio, so was innured to cold weather. Then I moved to California (Bakersfield) for 2.5 years. It took me about 2 years in Minnesota to finally get used to the cold again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nw220 Posted January 8, 2011 Report Share Posted January 8, 2011 Defentily no to Mallet if he we drafted him then Holmgrem should be let go in front office and thats saying alot, Take Blackmon if hes there now that Luck isnt coming out which in fact will push Green up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickers Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Mallet looked like overblown hyperbowl...He looked scared and he played like crap...no thank you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 No matter what Holmgren said in the presser on Monday, I think his first and only priority is to install a HC and OC who understand the WCO. We have had defensive HC's for a long time, from Butch Davis through Eric Mangini. I think now you see Holmgren as President (WCO), one of his senior advisers in Gil Haskell (WCO), Tom Heckert his GM (WCO), and his FA QB Seneca Wallace (WCO) all versed in the offense he has spent his ENTIRE career in the NFL developing and nurturing. He kept Mangini here this season, thus buying himself and Heckert/Haskell time to evaluate the roster, determine who to keep as the core and who to deal/cut, and then whoever takes over as HC will have a front office in place to feed him information. Now if you would have fired Mangini last season, that meant you'd have a President/GM/HC all blindly looking through the roster, game tape, practice tape and so on trying to determine who to keep, while also trying to study other NFL rosters, as well as get the draft up and running, not to mention install offensive and defensive systems. So I think we are set up for the WCO pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHardBrownsFan Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 No matter what Holmgren said in the presser on Monday, I think his first and only priority is to install a HC and OC who understand the WCO. We have had defensive HC's for a long time, from Butch Davis through Eric Mangini. I think now you see Holmgren as President (WCO), one of his senior advisers in Gil Haskell (WCO), Tom Heckert his GM (WCO), and his FA QB Seneca Wallace (WCO) all versed in the offense he has spent his ENTIRE career in the NFL developing and nurturing. He kept Mangini here this season, thus buying himself and Heckert/Haskell time to evaluate the roster, determine who to keep as the core and who to deal/cut, and then whoever takes over as HC will have a front office in place to feed him information. Now if you would have fired Mangini last season, that meant you'd have a President/GM/HC all blindly looking through the roster, game tape, practice tape and so on trying to determine who to keep, while also trying to study other NFL rosters, as well as get the draft up and running, not to mention install offensive and defensive systems. So I think we are set up for the WCO pretty well. LOL DesertDawg. Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepwrite Posted January 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Well, we're gonna disagree on something sometime (!). Holmgren won't go another year NOT living or dying with his own systems. That's why we're already reading that Shurmur is the "favorite" for the Browns coaching job. He's WCO through and through... and a quarterback coddler, too. Holmgren has said exactly what's on his mind so far, so we can believe him when he says "IF Colt McCoy is the guy." He could be... but Holmgren isn't 100 percent sold. That said? It's the right move to give Colt a full offseason and regular season as the starter getting starter reps in the offense he's best suited to. All his best qualities fit well there (accuracy, intelligence, quick reads, mobility, throws on the run, hits receivers in stride, can throw accurately without being set) while his deficiencies (size, so-so arm strength) are minimized. He showed enough to deserve it. And guys... this isn't Retardedly polarized American politics. It isn't for'im or agin'im. We're only for the Browns, not any one player, right? I like a lot of what I've seen from McCoy. The game's not too big for him. He's smart, which is my favorite quality in a quarterback. He's got some leader in him. But let's not act like acknowledging the obvious -- that he doesn't have a lot of arm -- is unpatriotic or something. That's for the amateur boards. And you can stop worrying about Mallett. The Browns won't draft him. No matter what Holmgren said in the presser on Monday, I think his first and only priority is to install a HC and OC who understand the WCO. We have had defensive HC's for a long time, from Butch Davis through Eric Mangini. I think now you see Holmgren as President (WCO), one of his senior advisers in Gil Haskell (WCO), Tom Heckert his GM (WCO), and his FA QB Seneca Wallace (WCO) all versed in the offense he has spent his ENTIRE career in the NFL developing and nurturing. He kept Mangini here this season, thus buying himself and Heckert/Haskell time to evaluate the roster, determine who to keep as the core and who to deal/cut, and then whoever takes over as HC will have a front office in place to feed him information. Now if you would have fired Mangini last season, that meant you'd have a President/GM/HC all blindly looking through the roster, game tape, practice tape and so on trying to determine who to keep, while also trying to study other NFL rosters, as well as get the draft up and running, not to mention install offensive and defensive systems. So I think we are set up for the WCO pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alo Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Mallett doesn't make any sense for the Browns. I'm surprised that his name pops up so often here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 I don't want Ryan Mallett. I think he's a horrible fit for the WCO and I think McCoy should get a year in the offense that suits him best. I've said that about 100 times, H. He's not very good on the move at all. I've never been a huge Mallett fan. Not my type of QB at all, actually. My favorite is Aaron Rodgers and second is Drew Brees. Like Mallett's arm, sure. I'm just saying what a guy like Mularkey might say. Keep in mind that Derek Anderson never had a year remotely CLOSE to the two Mallett had, so he'll get comparisons to Ben and Flacco, not DA. Off to the side, there's already talk that he has some Leaf-ish qualities. He's had a booze-related bust and there are whispers that there will be more coming to the surface. Damn your last statement. I wanted to make the Ryan Leaf comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Well, we're gonna disagree on something sometime (!). You quoted my post - where did we disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Mallett doesn't make any sense for the Browns. I'm surprised that his name pops up so often here. The only reason he pop up here is who we DON'T want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alo Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Ha. Well, I guess that's a valid reason. Mallett also serves as a good example of what Holmgren doesn't want in a QB: slow feet, inconsistent accuracy, poor body language, questionable character, etc. He could be successful somewhere else, but I don't see why any of the Browns' head coaching candidates would push for him. If anything, Mularkey's lack of success with Drew Bledsoe in Buffalo would mitigate against him wanting a similar QB in Mallett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Mallet makes me nauseous, dude throws the ball entirely way too hard. He has an absolute rifle, but he is more DA than he is decent. He does have a nice touch on deep outs and fades, but has absolutely no pocket presence or mobility. He also doesn't throw on the run well, because mainly, he doesn't run well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 No matter what Holmgren said in the presser on Monday, I think his first and only priority is to install a HC and OC who understand the WCO. We have had defensive HC's for a long time, from Butch Davis through Eric Mangini. I think now you see Holmgren as President (WCO), one of his senior advisers in Gil Haskell (WCO), Tom Heckert his GM (WCO), and his FA QB Seneca Wallace (WCO) all versed in the offense he has spent his ENTIRE career in the NFL developing and nurturing. He kept Mangini here this season, thus buying himself and Heckert/Haskell time to evaluate the roster, determine who to keep as the core and who to deal/cut, and then whoever takes over as HC will have a front office in place to feed him information. Now if you would have fired Mangini last season, that meant you'd have a President/GM/HC all blindly looking through the roster, game tape, practice tape and so on trying to determine who to keep, while also trying to study other NFL rosters, as well as get the draft up and running, not to mention install offensive and defensive systems. So I think we are set up for the WCO pretty well. let me guess, through all that blabbering, do you think holmgren will want to install the WCO????? Fing genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepwrite Posted January 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 You quoted my post - where did we disagree? That was my point. That we'll disagree sometime... but not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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