savage argument

[Solon16]

was started old board:

Originally posted by Flugel:

 

quote:

Originally posted by JADBF:

OK here's the question I have for everyone who is now totally bashing Savage. (and remember I think he handled this Winslow thing in the worst way, but I don't think he is the problem with this team).

 

So here's the question.

 

What were your expectations for this team coming into this season? .

 

 

Let's change this for a second to if you were interviewing GM candidates and one of them told you they'd feel pretty good about being 2-4 in the 4th year of the plan that has zero post seasons in it to date - would you say this is my idea of the perfect GM?

 

When Opie said the REASON the Browns haven't been winning prior to his arrival is because they had ZERO continuity from terrible drafting so that was why he came to Cleveland.

 

I'm not bitching about Wimbley and I'm not the one sitting Quinn for a QB completing 46% of his passes. In the 4 years Savage has been drafting what linemen on either side of the football BESIDES a 3rd overall pick is starting or playing in the starting rotation?

 

What LBer has he drafted that has played at a Pro Bowl level or intimidated an opponent? What RB have we drafted that sees the field?

 

We're 2-4 so please inform me why I should be celebrating another season of no playoffs and O for Pittsburgh. Are ya FREAKIN kidding me?

 

I STARTED off a Phil fan and I think he works hard to compensate for his inconsistencies on draft day after round 1 BUT we look to free agency far too much for what Phil promised to improve his first week here:

Better continuity by drafting better.

 

Now I now some people are going to go WAY overboard complimenting him for getting a #3 overall right twice but he's also had MANY of our fans arguing whether or not Wimbley was a good choice and most recently - there's alot of people souring on Edwards. I like all Phil's first round guys. I like McDonald and Wright is really coming around.

 

We've just paid too much money to these Savage solutions:

Ted Washington, Matt Stewart, Jason Fisk, Kenny Wright, Donte Stallworth, Joe Jurevicius, Seth McKinney, Trent Dilfer, Willie McGinest, Antwaan Peek.

 

Countless front 7 draftees and oline duds:

Jon Dunn, Ike Sowells, Dan Hoffman, Babe Oshinowo, Melili Purcell, Chase Pittman, David McMillan, Nick Speegle. Which of these guys should RAC be developing and coaching up? It's not like anyone landed on another team so HOW do I blame the head coach for not being able to build and establish continuity when the GM can't draft worth dick after round 2?

 

Again, it's year #4 in Operation O-for-Pittsburgh&Playoffs. All we got are excuses for more staph infections and losses than wins. Am I bad fan because I don't celebrate this crap?

 

I've SEEN good football in Cleveland worthy endless praise and this isn't it. I'm sick of excuses. Opie seems like he's in over his head any time his job requires more than fetching Ozzie lattes. I STARTED off really happy we got him but he's just not proving to me he's seasoned enough for the position he has with our franchise. Timing is everything they say.

- Tom F.

 

 

WHO CARES: We've just paid too much money to these Savage solutions:

Ted Washington, Matt Stewart, Jason Fisk, Kenny Wright, Donte Stallworth, Joe Jurevicius, Seth McKinney, Trent Dilfer, Willie McGinest, Antwaan Peek.................Fill in's mostly in first year when we had ZIP. SO WHAT!!!

 

My most pressing need for this team is.....MLB/ILB....dqwell aint it...we haven't addressed the Most important position on D imo...You cannot do it all in one year. Wimbley and hall are a good future IMO...who knows about bell but it is the right choice(position wise) Rey rey if this keeps sinking. We shopuld have taken a RB last years draft...so deep...but so fking sick and tired of this BS...Savage has turned this team into a team(5 Prime Time games)5 probowlers...and perhaps a stud on the bench at Qb.???? Perhaps! We are a RB,MLB and Safety away from a damn real good football team....if quinn can answer the bell... if he can't we need to know NOW...so if he isn't, we can move forward with atleast that knowledge. Savage ain't the problem...lerner aint the problem(spends big dough...that's what good owner's do)

RAC's choices are the problem...along many lines! 1st year...Savages was in the dark about this program and made changes(bodies) that knew a 3-4, second year saw the holes on this team ( ton )edwards,pool..missed on frye(got rid of him)perkins(got rid)Huge pair of balls to trade frye after 1 game...HUGE! Brought in STARS as FA's first time in forever...got hurt...whatcha gonna do??? Wimbley next, Dqwell(suspect) but right position, rest bumble****...Steinbach, robaire smith...addresses the Lines(most import, least respected)Missed with fat ted and mcginest...both guys rac wanted...Now JT,Quinn,Eric wright, mcdonald in fifth...much better! Shaun rogers is a freak and unblockable...HUGE +++, C.williams was seeming to come along now hurt a lil bit! Shaun smith although don't like personality....very good backup....so he fixes the lines(which you do first) then add the Talent. you will see skill positions picked this year in the draft....hope it's MLB first! this Savage hate is pathetic Cleveland Fan Bullshit...like Kosar/testaverde, Couch/Holcomb, Now this! The facts don't play out! You were the same guys that wanted belichoke gone!metcalf up the middle!!!

[Solon16]

and this:

Look.... to blame a GM for giving a breakout QB a payday for winning 7 games at home,10-6 record and a probowl appearence after being given the team after trading Frye....is completely understandable...hindsight being what it is....can't argue with it!

[Booker]

Let the season finish. If the Browns end up at 6-10 or 7-9, then someone needs to be held accountable.

[PlaygroundLegend]

Well I dont know who was drafted by which GM but let me show you some good examples:

-Jerome Harrison

-Brandon Mcdonald

-Kamieron Wimbley

-Eric Wright

-Alex Hall

-Joe Thomas

-Josh cribbs

-Beau Bell

-Martin Rucker

-D'Qwell Jackson

-Leon Williams

Are you telling me none of these people have any promise

[Solon16]

Throw in Steinbach,shaun rogers,fraley, jamal lewis and Corey williams as well.... Just heard/read Rogers best D-lineman in expansion era(not a question) but may be best ever....Flugs and rich are mistaken

[Solon16]

Come on...where are the savage haters this week? I'm sure you'll be in force if we don't get past the ravens with a win!

[rich4eagle]

Savage blows and whatever happens good is because of dumb luck struck............is that clear enough.........fire the idiot

[eqrulz101]

Savage is not the problem. Think back to when the Browns came back and their early draft picks, the likes of Couch, Gerrard Warren, Courtney Brown. All busts. We have talent on this team, this year you feel we didnt have a good draft because we didnt have one!!! we cashed it in for last years draft and we will not know how well that worked out untill we see what BQ can do or what we get for him, but Joe Thomas, Eric Wright, Brady Quinn, last years draft was terrific. Our problem lies with RAC, a horrible horrible coach who cannot manage a game for anything, and DA who can not handle pressure. The browns have a lot of talent and they have showed it to us, that Giants game was something else, no team can stop the offense that was part of the 10 penalty, 130 yard touchdown drive, lol.

[Solon16]

Savage blows and whatever happens good is because of dumb luck struck............is that clear enough.........fire the idiot

 

I bet you thought the sun revolved the earth too...

[rich4eagle]

It does or am I mistaken???

[Fooleeze]

Joe Thomas, Eric Wright, Brady Quinn, last years draft was terrific.

 

You forgot Brandon McDonald and Syndric Steptoe. Depending on how Quinn pans out, and if the rest of the players continue to improve, last year's draft could go down as one of the most productive in history for the Browns. (One of them, maybe in the top 5 or 10, for sure).

[Fooleeze]

Dang, starting out back at '1' post kinda sucks. It took me over 2 years to get up to 800. Oh well, time to start again.

[lemosley01]

You guys act like savage is some great savior as far as who he got.

 

'Look at how bad the team was when he got it'.

 

Exactly. That makes the job EASY. It's not hard to improve on 'bottom of the barrel.' Just like it isn't hard for Anderson to improve his rating.

 

Savage got a free pass because the talent was so bad and we were so used to it, that any talent that was at least NFL backup quality looks like the next star.

 

Let's look at how his first rounders have pannd out

1) Braylon Edwards - I'm still questionable on this one - after 4 years in the league and having played WR for how long, you'd think he wouldn't be dropping THIS many balls. At this point in his career, I have to say that the #3 or #6 (I can't remember which) that we gave for him is reaching. A lot of receivers as good as he have come later in the draft.

2) Joe Thomas - this was easy; you really can't mess it up.

3) Brady Quinn - big question mark. The fact that they haven't traded him for the strongly rumored first round picks tells me he isn't stinking it up in practice, and they have confidence in him. If he was as bad as our resident beaver-fags (and Stan) want to claim, he would already be gone. You don't hold on to him with those offers, otherwise you risk injury to your starter and Quinn playing, being exposed, and losing any value he may have had.

4) Kam Wimbley - see the big thread. He's pretty close to being a bust. I think it's safe to say that he was bad pick for as high as he was picked.

 

I'm not going to go through all of his other picks in later rounds - his first round picks kind of stand out in that he is (currently) 1 for 4 as far as getting really good value for the draft position.

 

Sorry, I'm not sold on him, and I think more and more fans are starting to wake up to it.

[Flugel]

Solon,

Are you SURE you want to do this? The ARGUEMENT Solon is referencing is when I posted if you have a PROBLEM with RAC then Opie is just AS accountable. We've got this BAD habit of pretending guys like Carmen Policy and Opie don't make mistakes at all so we can pretend it's ALL on the Head Coach. Our Defense is the STRONGEST part of our team all of a sudden inspite of going with a ROOKIE DC that nobody was confident in throughout the preseason right or wrong? In the land of what have you done for me lately - we showed up to Jax and didn't have a single penalty some 50 minutes into the contest. Our STs blocked a FG and caused and recovered a fumble in FG position. That's not consistent with the Savage is perfect and the coaching is atrocious. Wasn't THAT your top beef Solon? You were saying Savage has supplied RAC with so much talent to coach up via the draft that RAC has failed miserably. That said, does McDonald and Wright look to be IMPROVING? Is D'Qwell improving? Brodney Pool? Alex Hall? How is that FIRE the coach material but pretend Savage deserves all the credit? I think if Opie did better at drafting in the trenches after round 1 we'd have MORE draftees playing KEY roles besides Thomas. We can say this for ALL positions. Opie came here promising we'd see better drafting immediately for all positions and more continuity and I don't think he's been very consistent at all. I count 1 good draft in 2007 out of 4. You disagree obviously.

 

Now for specifics:

I'll throw in the money we paid to the following and dare say we got ZERO in return regardless of how many excuses you make for Opie:

Ted Washington

Jason Fisk

Matt Stewart

Gary Baxter

Seth McKinney

Donte Stallworth

Willie McGinest

LeCharles Bentley (most expensive Center in FA history - never played a down on Sunday)

Joe Jurevicius (in blue jeans more than uniform - he's missed games every year to old age)

Kenny Wright

Antwaan Peek

Trent Dilfer

Antonio Bryant (everyone hated him for al the drops & was out of the league in 07)

Ethan Kelly

Parker (the NT)

Nick Eason

Robaire Smith (better than I thought but what's his 2008 return value? It's not above 0)

Reuben Droughns (we overrated the crap out of 2 rushing TDs - currently 7th string in NY)

 

How about raises to maligned veterans or Coaches?

Andra Davis (Savage gave him a raise)

Denise Northcutt (that sissy got a raise from Savage)

Leigh Bodden (got a raise AFTER we learned his ankle was shotso & unreliable)

Orpheus Roye (Savage gave him a hefty raise and he suited up twice afterward)

Derek Anderson (Given tenure, hefty raise & FULL credit for shutting out Buffalo last year)

Todd Granthom (Savage gave him quite the raise before 2007 right?)

Romeo Crennel (Another raise from OP raise so if he's your bitch - that makes OP your beyotch)

 

Now for Nose Tackles on DRAFT day before giving up on drafting SKILLS:

Dan Hoffman (where's he playing today?)

Babe Oshinowo (where's he playing today?)

And how about the 5 Nose tackles in free agency BEFORE we opened the wallet for Shaun Rogers? Sh Smith, Parker, Kelly, Fisk and Washington so the body count is officially 7 before we got #8 correct Solon. That's 3 full years of tail chasing in a circle before we just opened the wallet. All it takes is 1 chop block and we count EVERY penny we've had to pay for. In Pittsburgh - their backup is Hoke when Hampton (All Pro they drafted) gets injured. When you CAN draft - there's low priced solutions to injury.

 

Along the same line - HOW MANY freakin Centers did we sign before we gave up and took the Center that was demoted in Philly? Rex Tucker, a Bama kid busted for Steroids off Miami's cut list, a kid from Tennessee we cut at Center - ALL this after realizing the Wheel of Fortune started with bentley. We paid for a Bentely and got Philly's Dodge Dart evryone bellyached about this preseason by the name of Fraley. BTW, Opie gave him a raise too.

 

How about OLBs/DEs on draft day as well as hefty dollars spent in FA for this position?

Nick Speegle

David McMillan

Willie McGinest

Matt Stewart

Antwaan Peek

Nick Eason

Kam Wimbley (I'm in the MINORITY liking him based on what I've read recently)

 

THANK GOD Savage got lucky on Alex Hall but look at all the money flushed down the toliet to GET to him? I say the SAME thing about Cribbs. We gave Northcutt a hefty raise and LOCKED him in for the first 2 years hearing all the while how much we'd gain from his experience in our passing game. And how many times did I have to gag on the rationale that we'd NEVER be able to replace him in the return game PRIOR to Cribbs defying all the odds? Another example of paying too much when your GM isn't REALLY all that confident as he promised to be with his drafting skills. You want that reality even CLOSER? How many times has Quinn see the field as DA ranked 33rd (not to be confused with 32nd) during our struggles?

 

Okay, MORE panic set in when Robaire Smith went down and NOW Shaun Smith has been missing games so we've had old man Willie putting a hand down BECAUSE Phil hasn't drafted the 3-4 DEs very well OR the DTs.

 

I noticed you mentioned Rucker, Bell and Harrison share a combined total of NON special teams plays of about 5. Leon Williams hasn't had much PT this year either. What about Jon Dunn or I-suck Sowells? How about Phil's most PROUD steal - Travis Wilson? We took 3 years to cut that scrub? You can pretend that BEATS Pittsburgh all you want but we have yet to win more than 3 games in our own division. You're BRAGGING about this? There's been some nice finds but in FOUR years - not enough after round 1.

 

My point about Savage is we will REMAIN Pittsburgh's punching bag UNTIL we can draft the SAME kind of players in the trenches they draft 2-3 deep everywhere. They don't overpay in free agency because they beat us drafting guys. The inconvenient truth is the ONLY starter we have drafted on EITHER line was a 3rd pick overall (Joe Thomas). Teams that win consistently over the years like Indy, Green Bay, Tennessee, Pitt, Jax and even Tampa DRAFT well. The Giants haven't drafted bad either. BEFORE all free agents wanted to play in NE (at the onset of their Superbowls) - they had a bunch of GREAT draft picks doing most of the work. Teams that OVERUSE free agency haven't been winning Superbowls or maintaining consistency winning. Usually teams that suck at drafting put too many marbles into free agency before they go public whining that injuries killed them.

 

There's a REASON Cleveland always feels MOST devastated by injuries - it's because of HOW MUCH we paid for the FREE AGENTS that already played their best football elsewhere. Before you OVERcelebrate Alex Hall - just remember what we paid to GET to him: Antwaan Peek, Willie McGinest so I'd say it balances out unless I was wearing knee pads for Phil Savage.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong the last time we made the playoffs was when? And what is our record today? And how happy are we EVERY time we watch Opie's hand picked QBs facing Pittsburgh? Thank you for thinking a 3-4 record in the 4th year of the plan is hitting a home run. You made my job pretty easy saying Playoffs & Pittsburgh USED TO BE very important to this town. Today if you have Queer Eye for Phil Savage - you'll celebrate and excuse no playoffs, enormous price tags of injured FAs, and a controversial Head Coach & QB sporting hefty raises from Phil Savage.

- Tom F. (4 years into Opie - playoff picture looks slim while we're still battling staff infections and staph infections. Don't anyone dare blame Savage for anything bad just come around when the sun is out. I've been a fan since 1964 so I've seen better)

[eqrulz101]

Well all good points, maybe Phil isnt the best GM out there but I still do not feel he is our main problem its RAC and DA. PS has atleast addressed the issue of the OL which has been horrible since the Browns came back, its nice to see someone atleast trying to address it. We cannot keep getting rid of everybody in the FO after 4 years of losing and expect to ever have a good team, we will always be in a constant state of rebuilding, so we should keep most of the people that are aleast half way competent and get rid of the knuckle heads. This team is close and I certenly do not want to start all over because we get someone new who has to have all of their own guys in place and completely dismantle this team.

[Flugel]

We didn't make the playoffs in 2002 BECAUSE of our oline just 2 years after a 5-27 start? I think we did.

 

Phil's first 3 choices of QBs for his Head Coach have been:

1) Trent Dilfer

2) Charlie Frye

3) Derek Anderson

 

RAC is a defensive minded Coach that Savage gave a RAISE to so HOW is he innocent in all this if you THINK RAC is the problem?

 

As far as the QB goes - Savage gave DA a RAISE as well so where does that give the man he supervises the thuimbs up to benching DA?

 

Like I said - Savage is just as accountable as RAC.

 

It took us about 15 different Centers to decide the guy Philly demoted was worthy of the job and a recent hefty raise.

 

And BEFORE we got to give Shaun Rogers a MEGA Contract for 2008 we went through the following failed Savage projects at NT:

Fisk, Parker, Kelly, Washington, Hoffman, Oshinowo and Shaun Smith (who hasn't even started for us in about a month)

 

ANY time you lean too much on free agency it speaks for your ability to draft depth and young players to coach up after round 2 IMO. When the high priced guys get injured - we ALWAYS default to the Head Coach sucks. Chris Palmer was NEVER the reason Courtney Brown and Tim Couch were porcelain pillars of this franchise - that was Carmen Policy but the death threats all went to Chris Palmer's phone right? Head Coaches are just 1 symptom of MANY problems that usually fall under GM's accountability. Opie isn't as innocent as the "aw shucks" you keep hearing.

 

Our best record in our division under Savage's tenure is 3-3 and we're STILL ZERO for Pittsburgh. Savage's ideas for taking them on have been the following: Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye and Dumb Ass. Meanwhile our defense is the ONLY thing keeping us in MOST games in 2008 convenient or not. Our defense ONLY surrendered 10 points to Pitt. The QB Opie gave a raise to couldn't even get us in the end zone once or make plays so guess who got blamed? The COACHES for playcalling, etc. Just out of curiosity what pass play would YOU call when Dumb Ass can't hit a RB within 5 yards of him? Same story.

 

If WE don't like it - how much longer do you see Opie holding us hostage on Sundays DA plays bad? He gave the kid a raise around the SAME time the head coach got a raise - so WHERE does this making the QB decision RAC's? I'd bet BOTH of my testicles that Chud would much rather have BQ than Dr Jeckyl and Mr Hide. On most drives DA looks more like Dr Kevorkian commiting offensive suicide.

 

The connection to Quinn and Charlie Weis are from Lerner's interest based on what our QBing prior to 2006 looked like as well as Weis being a CLOSE friend of RAC's. BQ didn't get here by accident. Phil's playing the guy HE wants. He gave RAC a raise to buy into his Supervisor's opinion and more SELL it. So what has happened since? Our defense became our team strength. Pretty strange if the Coaching sucks to see all these young players WORTH keeping employed are getting better (ie; Jackson, McDonald, Wright, and Pool).

 

Against Baltimore our defense INT'd the rookie twice early enough to have us competing. The trouble was Dumb Ass couldn't diostinguish what jersey colors he needed to be throwing the TD passes to. Sounds like he's ready for another raise and more tenure from Opie.

- Tom F. (Every time I see Dumb Ass looking like the next Kyle Boller Opie fell in love with I think of his alternatives like Dilfer, Stoney Case and Charlie Frye and it's HARD to hold the HC solely responsible for what the BAD QBs cause)

[eqrulz101]

Have you not watched how horrible game management is? RAC kicks a fieldgoal when we need a touchdown and a goes for it when we are down 10 and need a fieldgoal and a touch down, only thing that saved him is we got the ball right back after we failed to convert a 4th and 1. So I guess we should get rid of both RAC and PS and lets start all over with another 4 years of rebuilding. I like our chances better with PS and a new head coach with the talent we have then bringing all new people in and starting over.

[Flugel]

Agreed the clock management was awful in that game and even some others. Noone is confusing RAC with Vince Lombardi here. All I'm saying is I don't think Opie is as innocent or perfect in all this as you and others are insinuating while you all bellyache about the SAME head coach Opie gave a ginormous raise to. He also gave a great big pay raise to DA. Raises to both translates to Opie saying "these are my boys and I don't care what the customer thinks - the stadium is sold out so boo all you want."

 

I look at a Savage TYPE of QB and I see brain dead guys (football-wise) with meaningless cannon arms:

Trent Dilfer - might be smart everywhere but the football field.

Kyle Boller - he can only be named after a different sport that inlcudes gutter balls.

Stoney Case - yes, brains of stone.

Charlie Frye - had the talent of George Plimpton but 32 teams need 3-4 QBs.

DA - his old high school classmate stopped in 2 summers ago and asked if he was STILL an erratic QB. Same guy? Ya think?

 

I'm sorry but that's not the makings of a GM ready to dominate his division. So far our best record in the division is 3-3 and we remain O-for-Pittsburgh. You can keep blaming everyone BUT Opie but ALOT of games are won and lost on draft day in our division. Cincy knows this, we know this, Pittsburgh knows this and Ozzie taught Baltimore this.

 

Maybe Phil AND RAC are always just going to be GOOD assistants that are at their best under a STRONG Leader. I don't think either has this above them so I don't hold one MORE accountable than the other. I hold them equally accountable. It's like a sack from the blind side - we don't REALLY know if it's the OG or the OT at fault. All we REALLY know is if the tagteam failed it's QB. When we're throwing an unconfident Derek Anderson out to make a fool out of himself for 60 minutes - the Head Coach AND GM are failing him. Wasn't my post titled it's Beyond DA's fault Anymore? RAC doesn't feel like he can YANK Phil's boy because Phil gave RAC a raise and the same vote of confidence he gave DA - does that invite RAC to CROSS Phil on his pet project? I'm gonna say no with confidence.

 

As you were,

Tom F. (RAC's made plenty of mistakes so I don't need to point them all out - I'm just tell you Savage ain't walking on water where I sit just yet. I've seen teams from the 80s so let's just say I know when we're there and when we need too many excuses)

[Solon16]

WHO CARES: We've just paid too much money to these Savage solutions:

Ted Washington, Matt Stewart, Jason Fisk, Kenny Wright, Donte Stallworth, Joe Jurevicius, Seth McKinney, Trent Dilfer, Willie McGinest, Antwaan Peek.................Fill in's mostly in first year when we had ZIP. SO WHAT!!!

 

My most pressing need for this team is.....MLB/ILB....dqwell aint it...we haven't addressed the Most important position on D imo...You cannot do it all in one year. Wimbley and hall are a good future IMO...who knows about bell but it is the right choice(position wise) Rey rey if this keeps sinking. We shopuld have taken a RB last years draft...so deep...but so fking sick and tired of this BS...Savage has turned this team into a team(5 Prime Time games)5 probowlers...and perhaps a stud on the bench at Qb.???? Perhaps! We are a RB,MLB and Safety away from a damn real good football team....if quinn can answer the bell... if he can't we need to know NOW...so if he isn't, we can move forward with atleast that knowledge. Savage ain't the problem...lerner aint the problem(spends big dough...that's what good owner's do)

RAC's choices are the problem...along many lines! 1st year...Savages was in the dark about this program and made changes(bodies) that knew a 3-4, second year saw the holes on this team ( ton )edwards,pool..missed on frye(got rid of him)perkins(got rid)Huge pair of balls to trade frye after 1 game...HUGE! Brought in STARS as FA's first time in forever...got hurt...whatcha gonna do??? Wimbley next, Dqwell(suspect) but right position, rest bumble****...Steinbach, robaire smith...addresses the Lines(most import, least respected)Missed with fat ted and mcginest...both guys rac wanted...Now JT,Quinn,Eric wright, mcdonald in fifth...much better! Shaun rogers is a freak and unblockable...HUGE +++, C.williams was seeming to come along now hurt a lil bit! Shaun smith although don't like personality....very good backup....so he fixes the lines(which you do first) then add the Talent. you will see skill positions picked this year in the draft....hope it's MLB first! this Savage hate is pathetic Cleveland Fan Bullshit...like Kosar/testaverde, Couch/Holcomb, Now this! The facts don't play out! You were the same guys that wanted belichoke gone!metcalf up the middle!!!

[Flugel]

Well, we agree to disagree about holding the GM accountable. Again, I held Policy accountable for starting our franchise off with Porcelain Pillars and telling us Chris palmer wasn't his first choice of Head Coaches right after telling us we were going to compete right away.

 

I don't change that criteria now. If we're still looking at this horrible coaching everyone is so happy with - Savage gave the Head Coach a salary increase, which says "good job" via his actions. That's just not convenient to you pretending he added all our All pros. Winslow AND Pontbriand were here before Savage - isn't that 2 of our All Pros? How many did we have again? DA was the Vince Young version of All Pro, which translates to "before ENOUGH teams got him on film." The aftermath shows me Opie gave him tenure as starter.

 

The big picture doesn't get any more focused than this: I see WHO our GM views as a franchise QB and if he chooses Tom Brady and we appear in 3 Superbowls 1) Everybody LOVES the Head Coach and 2) the GM has done an excellent job.

 

If that's not a good example, the fans of Tampa couldn't exchange Dungy for Gruden fast enough when the fans of TB associated their post season failures with QB & Head Coach. Then Dungy goes to Indy and he gets Peyton Manning as his QB and he's now considered a Head Coach that consistently wins 12 games a year with a Superbowl W on his resume. Big contrast? You bet!

 

I can't imagine any Head Coach feeling wonderful that their first 3 Qbs to make it work with are Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye and then DA. The GM is responsible for the personnel whether that's convenient or not here. I've never once seen an UNTALENTED team winning a Superbowl Championship. If you've seen one please educate me where the guy standing on the sidelines meant more than the guys wearing the sweat. Taking the next logical step in this conversation: I HAVE seen a Head Coach like Barry "Pass-me-the-pretzels-baby" Switzer winning a Superbowl when he didn't have the first clue as to who was subbing in for who as a VERY talented Dallas Cowboys team was winning a Superbowl Championship inspite of him. He could have taken a nap for the entire game and it wouldn't have mattered 1 tiny bit. They had the RIGHT players.

- Tom F. (Opie has a pretty high approval rating for never having us in the playoffs in 4 years and giving the Head Coach nobody likes a decent pay raise)