peterbell Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Whoa..Hold up here now..Mangini was fired because he didn't win enough games but now the roster needs a complete overhaul?..really..switching back to a 4-3 is a massive mistake..So basically what "Bob's Boy's are preaching is patience because its going to take a few years to build a "sustainable winning football team"..Oh I see...ITS OBVIOUS THAT GROSSI IS GOING TO BE A SHILL FOR HOLMGREN BY TONY GROSSI CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The change in Browns head coaches from Eric Mangini to Pat Shurmur will result in a changes in the team's style and a makeover of the roster. The offense will change to the pass-first West Coast system favored by President Mike Holmgren. The defense will change to a traditional 4-3 alignment. With those major systemic changes come different requirements in players. "It's going to be a challenge, no question," said General Manager Tom Heckert. "There's going to be some turnover here. But we knew that regardless of the [coaching change] there was going to be turnover here. We have some age on the team and obviously we have to get younger." The Browns co-led the league last season with 19 players 30 years or older. That's not the preferred roster composition for a team looking up to strong division rivals. Let's break down the 30-and-up set this way: Thanks for the memories Quarterback Jake Delhomme (36) is scheduled to make $5.4 million in the last year of his contract. He won't see that. Kicker Phil Dawson (35) probably will leave in free agency. Defensive end Robaire Smith (33) likely will retire. His contract is up and he is coming off a back injury. Goodbye and good luck Linebacker Eric Barton (33) and linebacker David Bowens (33) were Mangini locker room leaders whose heavy legs don't fit in the coming 4-3 scheme. Offensive tackle John St. Clair (33) needs to be replaced. Defensive lineman Shaun Rogers (31) makes too much money for the effort and production he puts forth. He might stay if agreeable to a pay cut. Tight end Robert Royal (31) wouldn't seem to be a fit in the West Coast offense. Keepers Linebacker Scott Fujita (31) has experience in the 4-3 defense and is one of the best players on defense. Cornerback Sheldon Brown (31) received a $5 million bonus in a new contract after Heckert traded for him last year. An eventual shift to safety is possible if more cornerbacks can be acquired. Guard Eric Steinbach (30) is one of the team's most consistent good players. Long snapper Ryan Pontbriand (31) and safety Nick Sorensen (32) are core special team players. Tight end Benjamin Watson (30) could be a valuable player in the West Coast system. Offensive tackle Tony Pashos (30) is an above-average right tackle when healthy. Defensive end Kenyon Coleman (31) is valuable because the switch to a 4-3 will require more defensive linemen on the roster. Contracts up, have to re-sign Quarterback Seneca Wallace (30) probably benefited more from the coaching change than any player. His West Coast experience makes him more valuable because he can take over from Delhomme as Colt McCoy's personal mentor. Wallace could draw interest from Arizona and San Francisco. Offensive lineman Floyd Womack (33) is an underrated guard and tackle. Offensive lineman Billy Yates (30) proved a capable backup center and spot starter at guard. Heckert and Shurmur already have had meetings to decide which direction they need to go at certain positions. The good news is that the Browns are seeking the types of players with which Heckert was familiar while serving as the Philadelphia Eagles' head of personnel while Shurmur worked under coach Andy Reid. "I think we are on the same page when it comes to players and what we are looking for and how we are going to acquire those players," Heckert said. "I do think we have at least some players that can fit whatever we are going to do. The guys that we don't have, we are just going to have to go out and get." Good news on labor front? As NFL management and the players union conduct their rhetoric campaigns about the possibility of an owners lockout in 2011, at least one person sees a positive sign in -- of all things -- the number of coaches firings in the NFL this season. Bob LaMonte, the pre-eminent agent for coaches and NFL executives, said he views the firing of seven coaches this year as a barometer that an owners lockout is more likely to be shorter than longer. Four teams fired coaches during the season -- Denver, Dallas, Minnesota and San Francisco. Three others made changes after the season -- Oakland, Carolina and the Browns. LaMonte believes that "never in the world" would owners agree to put additional coaches on the payroll if they planned to have a protracted lockout. "[John] Fox and [Marvin] Lewis had contracts up going into the season," LaMonte said. "We set a barometer this year that if just those two coaches [were let go] and there's no more firings, then I think the lockout would be on and it would be protracted. If there are more, then I thought the lockout would be short. So I think [the seven coaching changes] accelerates the concept of what my barometer said." LaMonte particularly cited Dallas owner Jerry Jones' firing of Wade Phillips as a positive sign that a lockout would be short. He believes that Jones would not want to add the salary of a new coach to the enormous debt he already carries on the $1.1 billion Cowboys Stadium if Jones felt there would be a protracted work stoppage in 2011. Of course, Jones was already paying Jason Garrett a healthy sum ($3 million) as Cowboys offensive coordinator. But it's good to hear at least one independent person voicing optimism about the widening labor dispute. If a new collective bargaining agreement is not reached by March 3, doomsayers insist the league will shut down completely, with players locked out of team-assisted injury rehabilitation services, free agency and trades coming to a complete halt, and club employees being laid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Our front 7 desperately needs to be upgraded with youth regardless of if we switch to the 4-3 or not, so why not make the conversion? If there was ever a time to switch to the 4-3 as far as needing to upgrade/rebuild the front 7 anyways it is now, while we do have several serviceable over 30 yr. old players the frequency of injury by mid season of the old guys really started taking its toll and hurt mangini's/ryan's efforts last year and we will need to get younger before we can truly get better even if its painful for a while... Right now its a wait and see game for fans as the powers that be prepare to pave the way for a new and different road.. But the one thing that has become abundantly clear to me as holmgren begins swinging his hammer of Thor is that eric mangini was never going to be a part of the holmgren plan even if he had won 8 maybe even 9 games.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 We didn't make the playoffs with them anyways. Its time to go hire some winners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddybull1 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Grossi has finally got an inside source. Don't expect many doom & gloom articles about the Browns to come from his computer.. I'm a Browns fan and aside from my personal feelings , I have to get on board with the new regime and hope that we've finally gotten it right,, Butch Davis brought in the Miami crowd, Romeo recruited the New England players and Mangini stuck with the players from the Jets... Truthfully this isn't a bad approach.. You go to battle with those you trust and have had success with in the past.. HOWEVER---You must follow that up with a strong draft to infuse the youth and talent element with the graybeard warriors that you brought with you... Up until last year our draft record is a solid F.. Normally you sign your #1 pick to a 5 or 6 year contract.. Where are all those#1 picks from the last 10 drafts???? We've got to hit it again this year.. The players we need will be available, its up to Heckert to give Shumar the horses it takes to compete... Peace T.Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshutchins Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 How many players typically leave a team from one season to the next? None of this is particularly surprising or insightful. They might let OLD player go? Is this supposed to be shocking? Oh ... and I lost respect for the Cleveland sports media in about 1970. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffer X Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 There is always roster turnover from year to year, especially when you had to bring in some stop gaps just to be competitive. This new regime is already angling for time and patience from fans that they didn't want to give to Mangini, regardless of the injuries and lack of overall talent he was building on. Roster turnover is usually around 20% a season give or take, but with new staffs and new schemes try more like 50%. It's going to take me awhile to get wrapped around this decision and get behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Thank GOD!! for those who kept on saying we dont have talent, we dont have talent.. Well thats what a turn over in roster will help with.. HELLO, do you really think old lame as guys like Barton, Bowens, kenyon coleman will be back? Those guys werent even starting for the jets.. Goodbye, to all those jets homo's.. goodbye delhomo, goodbye Roth and Gocong.. goodbye Eric Wright! Also, don't you think our Wr's needed a make over? We will have about 15 different players, with free agency and the draft! when your 5-11 two years in a row and have aging players a roster turn over is over due! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
next2nothing Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 goodbye Roth and Gocong.. They aren't going anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miktoxic Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 it is nor surprise to anyone that we a revamping of talent. i just like the fact that NOW these guys are asking for time for THIS rebuild. that's what this is going to be, ANOTHER rebuild. call it what you want, if it walks like a duck............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
why cant we win Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 goodbye Roth and Gocong ya i dont see these to going anywhere and they werent even jets guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 never said they were jets.. Roth is a free agent and wants money.. I will be glad to show him the door. Not the idea 4-3 lb, either is gocong which was evident on philly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
next2nothing Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 never said they were jets.. Roth is a free agent and wants money.. I will be glad to show him the door. Not the idea 4-3 lb, either is gocong which was evident on philly Roth played with his hand on the ground till Miami moved to a 3 - 4. We're going to need DE's who can rush the QB and Roth is that type of guy. He played DE in Iowa too. I agree a little bit on Gocong but with him being a guy Heckert made a trade to get, he's most likely not going to get released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Roth played with his hand on the ground till Miami moved to a 3 - 4. We're going to need DE's who can rush the QB and Roth is that type of guy. He played DE in Iowa too. I agree a little bit on Gocong but with him being a guy Heckert made a trade to get, he's most likely not going to get released. I can see that with Roth, but at what price? I dont see us paying him a ton.. besides we have too many white guys in our front seven.. roth, gocong, fujita and schaffering... sometimes we look like a diviosn 2 team.. as paul horning said" we need to get the black athlete" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daddybull1 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 The Browns need some playmakers. More importantly this team needs speed and quickness... The Browns are about the slowest team in the league.. Their pass routes take sooooo long to complete its no wonder the defenders are always jumping the route... As I said before, when selecting players, if all things are equal, take the speed... It's something you can't "coach up"..... Peace T.Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
next2nothing Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 I can see that with Roth, but at what price? I dont see us paying him a ton.. besides we have too many white guys in our front seven.. roth, gocong, fujita and schaffering... sometimes we look like a diviosn 2 team.. as paul horning said" we need to get the black athlete" I think we'll be able to come to terms with him. He's showed production since he's been here and I think we really need to lock him down. You're forgetting that D'Qwell is a 4 - 3 LB and was really the wrong pick that year. He has never been good as a 3 - 4 LB. He'll be coming back and will be much better in the 4 - 3. Fujita will go back to the outside. Gocong will be serviceable at OLB too. I'd rather have him then slow Bowens and Barton. If we get rid of Rogers, Schaffering could be a good filler at DT for the time being. I do agree that we need a playmaker on our front 7 though but I think you're underestimating Roth and Fujita. Gocong is a 50/50 to me but I really can't remember how well he did at Philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 I think we'll be able to come to terms with him. He's showed production since he's been here and I think we really need to lock him down. You're forgetting that D'Qwell is a 4 - 3 LB and was really the wrong pick that year. He has never been good as a 3 - 4 LB. He'll be coming back and will be much better in the 4 - 3. Fujita will go back to the outside. Gocong will be serviceable at OLB too. I'd rather have him then slow Bowens and Barton. If we get rid of Rogers, Schaffering could be a good filler at DT for the time being. I do agree that we need a playmaker on our front 7 though but I think you're underestimating Roth and Fujita. Gocong is a 50/50 to me but I really can't remember how well he did at Philly. why get rid of rodgers now? He is perfect for the 4-3.. Hell lets bring in haynesworth.. schaffering should be used to give guys a blow or as a fluffer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
next2nothing Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 why get rid of rodgers now? He is perfect for the 4-3.. Hell lets bring in haynesworth.. schaffering should be used to give guys a blow or as a fluffer Rogers has shown he is only good for maybe 12 - 15 plays a game. He tweeted after our 0 - 3 start this past season that the season was already done. I don't know about you but he hasn't shown that he even wants to be on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Rogers has shown he is only good for maybe 12 - 15 plays a game. He tweeted after our 0 - 3 start this past season that the season was already done. I don't know about you but he hasn't shown that he even wants to be on this team. yeah but he is ideal for the 4-3 and is the most talented guy on our dline.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
next2nothing Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 yeah but he is ideal for the 4-3 and is the most talented guy on our dline.. I agree BUT if he can't be on the field for long how much of an impact is he really making? Plus I don't want one of our most talented players to quit so easily on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 I think a fresh start with a coach who can push his buttons he may work out. Let's face it him and mangini dispised each other.. mangini had a rule, no talented players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownB499 Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 I think a fresh start with a coach who can push his buttons he may work out. Let's face it him and mangini dispised each other.. mangini had a rule, no talented players Rodgers also has a rule... Kiss my big black ass... if you want me to play football ...better pucker up Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longhorn Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Rebuilding imples we once had the building we wanted and now we are rebuilding it. In reality we are building.........a big house hopefully and not yet pitching another tent in the middle of nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbell Posted January 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 ROGERS WAS A 7 MILLION DOLLAR TURD THIS YEAR..He basically quit on the team..keep him really.. bring in Haynesworth? ..Lets get Caruth from Cincy who killed his girlfriend..Too many white guys?..WTF does that mean? .Are you an afro centrist racist? How about bring in good players with a semblance of character. You're getting dumber by the post..good grief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 ROGERS WAS A 7 MILLION DOLLAR TURD THIS YEAR..He basically quit on the team..keep him really.. bring in Haynesworth? ..Lets get Caruth from Cincy who killed his girlfriend..Too many white guys?..WTF does that mean? .Are you an afro centrist racist? How about bring in good players with a semblance of character. You're getting dumber by the post..good grief If pete and repeat were on a boat and pete fell off, who is left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longhorn Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 If pete and repeat were on a boat and pete fell off, who is left? Jon Gruden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbell Posted January 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Jon Gruden? Naw..The boat on Gruden sailed along time ago..sorry WRREBEL..hurt you're feelings..BADLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Naw..The boat on Gruden sailed along time ago..sorry WRREBEL..hurt you're feelings..BADLY My neighbor has 3 rabbits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgTracker Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Mangini was simply a fall guy. Holmgren and Heckert both knew what was going to happen and you can tell by the free agent signings last year. We didn't sign any true 3/4 defensive linemen in part because they didn't expect mangini to stick around. Now after wasting a year for political reasons holmgren will be asking us for patience saying championship football is on the horizon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRREBEL Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 Get the xxxx outa here with that racial bullshit. Not racial dude... just facts we were slow and white, which go together like peanut butter and jelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canton Mike Posted January 16, 2011 Report Share Posted January 16, 2011 How many players typically leave a team from one season to the next? None of this is particularly surprising or insightful. They might let OLD player go? Is this supposed to be shocking? Oh ... and I lost respect for the Cleveland sports media in about 1970. Kathy, I agree....Does this mean you & I are showing our age? I may have lost respect for them even before 1970. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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