Franchise QBs

[BendMeOver]

When the Steelers passed on Dan Marino back in '83, the Chief was upset with his son Dan. Dan Rooney reasoned he already had a good QB lineup and focused on defense, taking the very forgettable Gabriel Rivera. The Steelers languished in obscurity for the remainder of the decade, but their fortunes would have been very different with Marino.

 

The Browns have passed on 2 QBs now that would've had a profound impact on the fortunes of your team and both are playing in this week's AFC Championship game. In 2009, you punted your #5 overall pick for Mark Sanchez to the Jets for Alex Mack. It's probably too early to tell how good the Alex Mack pick may or may not have been. Based upon the current makeup of your team, I doubt Mark Sanchez would've blossomed so quickly with the Browns. However, Mark Sanchez is now one game away from being talked about as one of the best QBs in the game. Kinda the real kicker, is that Sanchez is turning another one of your #1 draft picks (Braylon Edwards) into an elite reciever.

 

In 2004, you passed on Ben Roethlisberger (cause you had Kelly Holcomb, really?) for Kellen Winslow. Ben probably wouldn't have had the degree of success he has had with the Steelers, but the Browns would've been playoff contenders since.

 

So now we look at Colt McCoy. At times he looked like he has the potential to be more than a position warmer. Does he have the potential to turn the fortunes of your franchise around, or will you pass on another future star at that position under similar reasoning to that which Dan Rooney used in 1983? Cam Newton may be available to you this year, especially if Andrew Luck changes his mind. So how do you feel about your QB position?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Cam Newton, really? Definitely a franchise QB. Mark Sanchez known as an elite QbB? That's funny, on NFL Live the other day the topic was how the Jets were winning by keeping the ball OUT of his hands. Sounds like an elite QB to me.

[BendMeOver]

The Jets are following a fairly similar pattern to the one used to develop Ben Roethlisberger. If the Jets win this weekend, Sanchez will have lead his team to defeats the top 3 QBs in the NFL. In his second year, he is in his second AFC championship game.

[LCDawgFan13]

Dirty Sanchez is not an elite passer...even if the Jets win the Super Bowl, it won't make him one of the NFL's Elite QB's. Like previously stated, the Jets are winning by making sure Sanchez does not have to have the ball in his hands. They are doing it with their ground game and defense. Similar to the way the Ravens (but not to the extent) did it with Trent Dilfer. He won a Super Bowl...but also definitely not one of the NFL's elite QB's. No, I am not comparing Sanchez to Dilfer. I think Sanchez will become that elite QB...but he's not there yet.

Oh...and Braylon? He was previously already a top receiver. Then he had a horrific season and we got rid of him. Sanchez isn't making him anything!

The Browns have bigger needs right now than to take a flyer on Cam Newton....yes, I said a flyer. I don't see him coming out and being a great NFL qb. Can't really explain why. I just don't think he's ready yet. I think he needs another season in college and I think he's making a mistake by coming out now. Obviously, he is doing for the money. I would rather see what we have in McCoy right now and build the team around him. Give him some receivers and a revamped OL and let him take the reigns. If he isn't THE GUY, then we draft a QB next year. Luck staying at Stanford heads up a pretty solid class next season.

[VaporTrail]

Dirty Sanchez is not an elite passer...even if the Jets win the Super Bowl, it won't make him one of the NFL's Elite QB's. Like previously stated, the Jets are winning by making sure Sanchez does not have to have the ball in his hands. They are doing it with their ground game and defense.

 

Yes, their win this week certainly had nothing to do with his 127.3 passer rating and 3 touchdowns to 0 interceptions. Good thing they kept the ball out of his hands.

[WRREBEL]

watch the game, the jets win because there defense and talented offensive group. Sanchez would be a disaster if the browns drafted him. We would be talking about drafting another qb this year.

 

Just watch how many times he misses a read or a wide open WR. Braylon, Santonio Cochery and Kellar all get open by alot.

 

Im not saying Sanchez wont develop he only had a year starting at USC, but to call him an elite QB would be just dumb...

 

If we drated Sanchez he would be on his way out of the NFL

[LCDawgFan13]

Yes, their win this week certainly had nothing to do with his 127.3 passer rating and 3 touchdowns to 0 interceptions. Good thing they kept the ball out of his hands.

 

Yes, he had a great game. What's your excuse for being ranked 29th in the league in passer rating at 75.3 with 17 TDs to 13 INTs? The fact is that they have gotten to where they are not because of Sanchez, but because of the supporting cast around him. He is NOT an elite QB...yet. I still think he will be, but he's not there yet!

[WRREBEL]

Also you can keep roethliberger..

 

As a fan I would never want to root for a douche bag like him..

 

He isn't a terrel owens type douche but in a whole other league..

 

The guy wouldn't give autographs to his team, he would skip out on paying dinner bills..

 

And he is def the big sleezy...

 

Hey I'm a yankee fan and hate arod, I don't know how steeler fans like roethlisburger..

 

I would rather go 0 and 16 then have to cheer for that guy..

 

Also tthe steelers didn't look so bad when he was out the first 4 games, did they?

[BendMeOver]

WRREBEL Wrote:

Also you can keep roethliberger..

 

As a fan I would never want to root for a douche bag like him..

 

Wow, I don't know if I believe you there. He's a "hometown" Ohio boy and if he QB'ed the Browns (to paraphrase the Beatles) he'd be more popular than Jesus in Cleveland. You can say it's an indictment of American Society, but people are very forgiving of sports figures who fall from grace when they are winners. Further, fans of franchises with long periods of losing tend to prop up the "moral" aspect of their team, where if they were winning any unacceptable social deviances would be overlooked (i.e. see Ray Lewis/murder). Many Pittsburghers wanted to ship Ben out over the Atlanta thing, I was not one of them.

 

LCDawgFan13 Wrote:

I think Sanchez will become that elite QB...but he's not there yet.

 

If he beats the Steelers Sunday, the national media will dub him an elite QB. If you think he will become an elite QB, then my assertion that he is, is essentially still valid. That's two elite QBs the Browns could've drafted, that could've helped make your franchise into a perrenial winner. So I questioned as to whether or not you thought Colt had that potential and/or Cam Newton. (If you had a shot at Andrew Luck and pass on him, the fan base should rise up and castrate Lerner).

 

WRRebel Wrote:

If we drated Sanchez he would be on his way out of the NFL.

 

That's a pretty harsh indictment of your club's management. To say they can't even put a winning team around a QB who would otherwise be a star player in any other NFL franchise. Surely, you think Holmgren can produce stout drafts.

[VaporTrail]

If he beats the Steelers Sunday, the national media will dub him an elite QB. If you think he will become an elite QB, then my assertion that he is, is essentially still valid. That's two elite QBs the Browns could've drafted, that could've helped make your franchise into a perrenial winner. So I questioned as to whether or not you thought Colt had that potential and/or Cam Newton. (If you had a shot at Andrew Luck and pass on him, the fan base should rise up and castrate Lerner).

 

Tim Couch could have been an elite QB.

[longhorn]

There is this obscure thing in football called "character". Every player has it, but some have good character, while others have bad character. Those with bad character always seem to find a way, over time, to disrupt their team, under-perform, and end up being a negative influence on the team's overall success. I predict such will be the case with Cam. He's had a number of issues at the collegiate level and the rule of thumb is we can expect those types of things, or worse, to resurface in the NFL. Character is at the core of the player's being....it always pops out. On the opposite end of bad character is what we see in Colt McCoy, a kid who has strong character, good values, and someone who gives to others more than he receives himself. McCoy will always want to "just play football" more than he will want money and fame.

[bringbackbrownie2]

If he beats the Steelers Sunday, the national media will dub him an elite QB. If you think he will become an elite QB, then my assertion that he is, is essentially still valid. That's two elite QBs the Browns could've drafted, that could've helped make your franchise into a perrenial winner. So I questioned as to whether or not you thought Colt had that potential and/or Cam Newton. (If you had a shot at Andrew Luck and pass on him, the fan base should rise up and castrate Lerner).

 

1) You base your opinions of players on what the media tells you? sorry I'm not a robot like you..

2)saying we passed on Big Ben is like saying every other team passed on Tom Brady (cuz they did). Picking the right QB is a toss-up every time..

3)Luck is not in the draft, but if he was, he sure as hell would not fall to #6

 

you are not a browns fan so you obviously wouldn't understand, but you can't draft a QB every year and expect an improvement. We've tried that and it doesn't work. There are 21 other positions to worry about. The Jets and Ravens talent and depth at other positions make sanchez and flacco look better than they actually are...

[shepwrite]

Yes, their win this week certainly had nothing to do with his 127.3 passer rating and 3 touchdowns to 0 interceptions. Good thing they kept the ball out of his hands.

 

Funny. Sanchez seems to play big when it's needed. Now he needs to become consistent.

 

Esiason made the point that the four QBs, all first rounders, aren't passengers in the playoffs. Their teams are winning BECAUSE of them. Combined they had 10 TDs and ZERO INTs in the divisional round.

 

Wow.

[miktoxic]

let me see ben, sanchize or anyone else come onto with such lackluster OL play, no offensive weapons and a defense which couldn't stop a bloody nose (yeah i stole it). and NO i'm not talkin' about this uear's browns (even though at times we could say that) but how about tim couch's career? think ben or sanchez could have survived that pounding.

 

they both were handed thereigns of a good if not great team.

[hoorta]

Couple of thoughts on this- being from SW Ohio I had the opportunity to see Ben play plenty of times in College, and I was screaming for the Browns to take him. Butch still had Miami(Florida)itis, and was drafting "his" guys- trading up to draft Winslow (the Lions weren't going to take him anyway) and giving up a second round pick was one of the all time draft blunders- only short of Ditka's give away to get Ricky Williams.

 

Sanchez had a good but not great rep coming out of college- he was far from a sure thing, and I'm not upset the Browns traded away to not get him. Quarterbacks that win get way overrated. Sanchez threw a nice ball to Holmes in the end zone- but how many wrs in the NFL are capable of making circus catches like that? The (NY) media hype is getting damn ridiculous-

 

It sure is nice to be able to plug your franchise quarterback in last- Ben and Mark were drafted into near perfect situations. Good o-lines, decent wrs. The only quarterback in recent memory to overcome bad surroundings is Sam Bradford- and he's by far the exception to the rule.

 

Edwards? Har har. The guy couldn't catch a cold when he was with the Browns- what good is an elite receiver if he's 10 yards open for a sure touchdown, and drops passes that hit him in the hands? And FYI, Edward Slitherhands did that more times than I can count when he was with the Browns. Braylon has miraculously learned how to hang onto the ball this year- and my theory on that is- since his DUI he's not out partying with his pals until 4AM every night- and he's only seeing one ball coming at him, instead of three. And there were other issues with Braylon- like "they hate me because I went to Michigan". Nope, we hated you because you were dropping far too many passes for a supposed "elite" receiver. BTW, that was yet another Phil Savage draft screw-up. Edwards had a bad rap for poor hands coming out of college and Phil drafted him anyway.

 

As to the Browns taking another quarterback this year- not happening. Cam Newton is a project according to scouts- yeah, he MIGHT turn out to be another Michael Vick, but he could as easily be a Jamarcus Russell. That Newton went to a Junior College should send off warning sirens- if he does poorly on the Wunderlich, I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. As to the other qbs coming out- I give McCoy the nod- he gets a year in a system taylor made to his talents to see if he can be the guy, and if not, well, there's going to be a guy called Andrew Luck next year.

[next2nothing]

Cam Newton is a train wreck waiting to happen. He'd be worth nothing in the type of offense we're going to be running anyway. Give McCoy another year, the kid freaking earned it by producing with this sorry, sad bunch of receivers. I'm not against drafting a QB in later rounds but no way would we take a guy in the first or even the second round.

 

I'm not proclaiming McCoy as the next great HoF QB but just go back and watch that Patriots game. That game showed the true guts, grit and poise that McCoy has. He is accurate, has a great sense of the pocket and is a natural leader. The offense rallied around the kid when he was in the huddle.

 

Give McCoy weapons and he will make this fan base proud. Bank on it.

[WRREBEL]

Funny. Sanchez seems to play big when it's needed. Now he needs to become consistent.

 

Esiason made the point that the four QBs, all first rounders, aren't passengers in the playoffs. Their teams are winning BECAUSE of them. Combined they had 10 TDs and ZERO INTs in the divisional round.

 

Wow.

 

well im gonna disagree eith Boomer esiason, the Jets are there because of there Defense, great oline and very good wrs.

 

I know your an alex smith fan, so tell me if you put alex smith with the jets how good would he be? I personally think he would do well. They ask Sanchez to manage the game and he does make some pretty good throws in the clutch. He also misses alot of throws. Like i said, i wouldnt consider him elite.. When i think elite, i think the top 3 or 4/

 

Aaron Rodgers is the only elite qb left in the tournament..

 

elite qbs, Rodgers, Brady, bree, rivers and manning

[Speedyd900rr]

You guys might as well just kick yourself in the nuts cause there's no point in talking football with this troll. He has an agenda and all he wants to do is point out the mistakes the Browns made in the past just like every other post she makes.

[Vagitron]

Mark Sanchez will not be considered one of the best QB's in the game. He'll have a different "air" around him but he's not going to be labeled a top 10 guy, maybe a fringe guy...MAYBE inside the top 10 if he wins the Super Bowl.

[daddybull1]

Admittedly I don't understand the calculation of the QB rating system.... However, in my limited knowledge of the formula it seems the QB gets a lot of credit when other factors really come into play..

 

Example: The QB throws a perfect pass and the receiver drops the ball, this goes against his QB rating..

The QB throws a perfect pass, it bounces off the receivers hands and is intercepted and this also goes against his QB rating...

The QB throws a wounded duck and the receiver makes a tremendous catch yet the QB gets credit for a completion which is a

positive in his QB rating...

 

Also, if a QB throws a 2 yard pass and the receiver takes it to the house 60 yards away the attaboys goe to the QB...

Hell, Swann & Stallworth put Bradshaw into the hall of fame... If I remember correctly, the immaculate reception that was perfectly defended went on Bradshaws stat sheet as a reception....

 

My point is that sometimes we make too much of this statistic when other factors have both a positive and negative affect on its calculation...

 

BTW, franchise QB's are not franchise QB's when they are drafted.. They earn that distinction by their play on the field and also by the play of their teammates...

 

Wins and losses play a big part in their legacy, just ask Archie Manning....................

 

Peace

 

T.Dawg

[The Gipper]

Admittedly I don't understand the calculation of the QB rating system.... However, in my limited knowledge of the formula it seems the QB gets a lot of credit when other factors really come into play..

 

Example: The QB throws a perfect pass and the receiver drops the ball, this goes against his QB rating..

The QB throws a perfect pass, it bounces off the receivers hands and is intercepted and this also goes against his QB rating...

The QB throws a wounded duck and the receiver makes a tremendous catch yet the QB gets credit for a completion which is a

positive in his QB rating...

 

Also, if a QB throws a 2 yard pass and the receiver takes it to the house 60 yards away the attaboys goe to the QB...

Hell, Swann & Stallworth put Bradshaw into the hall of fame... If I remember correctly, the immaculate reception that was perfectly defended went on Bradshaws stat sheet as a reception....

 

My point is that sometimes we make too much of this statistic when other factors have both a positive and negative affect on its calculation...

 

BTW, franchise QB's are not franchise QB's when they are drafted.. They earn that distinction by their play on the field and also by the play of their teammates...

 

Wins and losses play a big part in their legacy, just ask Archie Manning....................

 

Peace

 

T.Dawg

 

Yes, just think, if the Steelers has take Mike Phipps instead of Bradshaw with the #1 pick (Browns took Phipps with #3) it may have been Mike Phipps who was the hero of the Steelers Dynasty....ya think?

 

Nevertheless you are correct. Here is the list of the Top 20 in career Passer Rating:

 

1. Aaron Rodgers (27) 98.4 2005-2010 gnb

2. Philip Rivers (29) 97.2 2004-2010 sdg

3. Steve Young+ 96.8 1985-1999 2TM

4. Tony Romo (30) 95.5 2004-2010 dal

5. Tom Brady (33) 95.2 2000-2010 nwe

6. Peyton Manning (34) 94.9 1998-2010 clt

7. Kurt Warner 93.7 1998-2009 3TM

8. Ben Roethlisberger (28) 92.5 2004-2010 pit

9. Joe Montana+ 92.3 1979-1994 2TM

10. Drew Brees (31) 91.7 2001-2010 2TM

11. Matt Schaub (29) 91.5 2004-2010 2TM

12. Chad Pennington (34) 90.1 2000-2010 2TM

13. Joe Flacco (25) 87.9 2008-2010 rav

14. Daunte Culpepper 87.8 1999-2009 4TM

15. Jeff Garcia 87.5 1999-2009 5TM

16. Carson Palmer (31) 86.9 2004-2010 cin

Matt Ryan (25) 86.9 2008-2010 atl

18. Otto Graham+ 86.6 1946-1955 cle

19. Dan Marino+ 86.4 1983-1999 mia

20. Brett Favre (41) 86.0 1991-2010 4TM

Trent Green 86.0 1997-2008 4TM

22. David Garrard (32) 85.8 2002-2010 jax

23. Donovan McNabb (34) 85.7 1999-2010 2TM

24. Rich Gannon 84.7 1987-2004 4TM

 

Do you really think these are the greatest 20 QB in football history? Over half are still active.

[Vagitron]

let me see ben, sanchize or anyone else come onto with such lackluster OL play, no offensive weapons and a defense which couldn't stop a bloody nose (yeah i stole it). and NO i'm not talkin' about this uear's browns (even though at times we could say that) but how about tim couch's career? think ben or sanchez could have survived that pounding.

 

they both were handed thereigns of a good if not great team.

 

 

I 100% believe that Ben would have made the Browns a better team. He'd at least keep defenses honest because of his mobility in the pocket, his gamer nature and your offensive line is two first round picks, a solid FA acquisition and 2 other marginal guys. I'd love to have Joe Thomas in a Steeler uniform.

[WRREBEL]

I 100% believe that Ben would have made the Browns a better team. He'd at least keep defenses honest because of his mobility in the pocket, his gamer nature and your offensive line is two first round picks, a solid FA acquisition and 2 other marginal guys. I'd love to have Joe Thomas in a Steeler uniform.

 

 

dont ever say that! blasphamy!

[Vagitron]

dont ever say that! blasphamy!

 

 

We don't go after that kind of free agent so you won't have anything to worry about.

[daddybull1]

Jim Kelly, Boomer Esiesen, Dan Fouts, Johnny Unitis, Bernie Kosar, Archie Manning, Y.A.Tittle, Sammy Baugh, Bill Nelson, Jim Plunkett, Bobby Lane, Ken Anderson, Troy Aikman, Roger Staubach... Too bad these QB's didn't have higher QB ratings then they would have been considered "Franchise Quarterbacks".....LOL

 

IMO Bathroom Ben is over rated, in that, it's all because of him that the Steelers are winners.... In Pittspuke it's the system. Ben might make it easier but they would be just as successful without him....

 

Peace

 

T.Dawg

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

We don't go after that kind of free agent so you won't have anything to worry about.

What, a free agent that hasn't raped someone or ripped a hand dryer from the wall? That's right, you guys only take players that hit hardest AFTER the whistle blows.

 

 

I kid, you left that one wide open.

[pizzadeliveryguy]

IMO Bathroom Ben is over rated, in that, it's all because of him that the Steelers are winners.... In Pittspuke it's the system. Ben might make it easier but they would be just as successful without him....

No way. BR is a gamer. He can get yards with his legs, is accurate, throws a good deep ball, and reads defenses very well. If anything he may be underrated. I've tried to knock him but he just keeps making plays.

 

 

Now, the folks that are claiming that Sanchez is elite. Now those are the guys with the good stuff. There are 20 QBs in the NFL that I would rather have than Sanchez.

[Vagitron]

No way. BR is a gamer. He can get yards with his legs, is accurate, throws a good deep ball, and reads defenses very well. If anything he may be underrated. I've tried to knock him but he just keeps making plays.

 

 

Now, the folks that are claiming that Sanchez is elite. Now those are the guys with the good stuff. There are 20 QBs in the NFL that I would rather have than Sanchez.

 

 

Thank you and you are absolutely correct outside of the "looking for things to critique" which I obviously don't do. If the doubters would do some statistical research they'd see that Ben is near the top in a lot of key categories specifically Yards per attempt which for the biggest stat guys is one of if not the most important stat for a QB. He's a beast and that's the bottom line. His style allows for more sacks and possibly more injury but there is no other QB in the league that improvises in the manner that he does and the man gets it DONE. His style is completely unique in the NFL and the only other QB that plays with similar style is also still in the playoffs. Aaron Rodgers. Only he's not 6'5, 240 and damn hard to bring down.

 

Ben is elite. End of story.

[Vagitron]

LMAO. GREAT POST!

 

Sanchez reminds of a Bradshaw kind of guy, The playoffs may very well bring out the greatness in him. Dude, his passing gave Bill Belichik the red ass. The PAt's defense couldn't catch up with the kid.

 

 

The Pats defense also isn't very good. It sure as hell isn't the Pittsburgh defense, not even close.

[BendMeOver]

Colt McCoy was a 3rd round draft pick, if he turns out to a QB half as good as Brady you have a steal. If you draft a QB in the first round, keeping McCoy as a project/back-up is not going to kill you. Jake Delhomme ain't exactly a keeper and what has Wallace shown you? You guys held on to Brady Quinn too long. There were rumours (and I'll grant you it was by no means a definate thing) that you could've good fairly good compensation in a Quinn trade (i.e. late 1st or 2nd rounder) before you ruined it and actually put him into the game. I'm sure you could probably trade Colt McCoy for at worst a 4th round pick.

 

I'm not sold that Andrew Luck is staying in school, at least until he is a no-show at the combine. I'm sure there are agents trying to convince him right now that he's making a terrible mistake. This could be the last year without a rookie salary scale, and he is likely throwing away over $40M in guaranteed money. I also believe the Panthers would trade out of the top spot for the right deal, and with your 6th position overall, you are not that far away. My guess is Rivera (being of the defensive mindset) will want to improve defense first and he can probably still get his guy at a lower spot and pay less for him by trading out. If Luck goes into the draft, the 49'ers will definately be the team with the most apparent interest in him.

 

Further, I don't think your defense is that far off. You've showed flashes this year of being an elite team defensively, which really surprised me that let Ryan get away. I'd bet that the Browns are one or two players away from where you need to be (to be at least a top 10 defense). Offensively, you still need some work, but you are putting together what seems to be a solid offensive line, Hillis just needs a complementary back and 1 or 2 wideouts. If you draft a QB this year that puts you maybe 2-3 years from contention.

 

I suggested earlier that you guys needed Cowher (as it would really refuel the rivalry between our two cities), but more importantly, Cowher could've gotten you wins without the franchise QB. He got the Steelers to the AFC championship with Kordell Stewart, excuse me Kordell FREAKING Stewart. Name me one other coach in the history of this league who could've accomplished that feat. Brian Billick probably is the closest to Cowher in that feat (winning w/out a QB), but he could only do it once.