Taylor Mays & Clay Matthews

[Flugel]

I watched the USC Game yesterday in much awaited anticipation to watch Rey play again. While Rey did little to catch my eye, the 2 guys on that USC Defense that hit me right between the lookers were Taylor Mays and Clay Matthews, not to be confused with Clay Aiken. Penn State's QB wore that kid like a jersey. Instinct + speed = LBer we've been dreaming of.

 

I wouldn't have a problem seeing us snag these 2 guys as our first 2 picks. Did anyone see that hit where Mays laid out 2 guys. One was his teammate on the other side of the Penn State receiver. Anyway, they say he weighs 235 and runs 4.2s????? Folks, here's our playmaker. The REASON nobody drops passes against us is because we don't have the fear factor or presence this kid would place there. STUD!

 

And if we get Mays in round 1 - I saw that Matthews was a round 2 projection, which slamdunks UNDERRATED like dad. He might be a better bang for the buck than Rey or Curry. Our team needs a LBer than can get to the QB on the blitz and rust me when I tell you we got room for 4.5s when the bloodline says Matthews. Maybe it's a GOOD thing we never retired #57 because we wouldn't even have to change the name on the upperback.

 

Former USC LBers have never done us wrong folks. Neither have hard hitting Safeties that went to college in Los Angeles.

- Tom F.

[Zombo]

Clay Matthews, - Tom F.

If I never heard of his father, I would have been like "wholly crap, who's Bam Bam?". That dude was ALL OVER Clark, who I thought played a pretty good game despite the relentless USC pressure and speed.

 

But since I happen to know that he is the son of my favorite defensive football player of all time ... maybe I'm a little biased.

 

But damn ... what a motor on that kid.

 

Can we get him, please?

 

Zombo

[WPB Dawg Fan]

I kind of like the Curry rd 1, Chung rd 2 combo. If you watched the Oregon game....you saw Chung lay the lumber on more than one occasion...and it gives us the top LBer in the draft, and the #2 SS as well.

 

I also had problems with Mays tackling technique. He didn't wrap up. He just lowered his shoulder and threw his body at the carrier. On at least 2 occasions in the first half the ball carrier bounced off him for big gains (one for a TD). He may be coached to wrap up...but his instincts are to lay the big hit first...and instincts are hard to break.

[Silverback]

Didn't Cleveland have the 2nd worst offense in the NFL? Why the obsession with players on D?

[Squintz]

I think it would be awesome that I wouldn't have to buy a new jersey - I already have one!

 

Absolutely, I'd LOVE to get Clay on this team.

[Guest birddog1]

Didn't Cleveland have the 2nd worst offense in the NFL? Why the obsession with players on D?

 

IMO, there's talent on the offensive side of the ball, although I do feel we need a running back. When DA and Quinn went down, we were sunk, Dorsey is not an NFL caliber QB. However, the defensive side is clearly lacking. We couldn't stop anybody. If we strengthen the D, it makes the job of the offense that much easier.

 

I was a huge supporter of drafting Rey until yesterday - just not as sold on him now. We don't need an inconsistent LB. I loved the fact the Matthews was all over the QB.

[DTBH]

They should have to scout a black safety and a black linebacker to satisfy the Rooney rule.

[Guest Aloysius]

For anyone who missed it last night:

 

 

And I'm not sure comparing Matthews to the 1st Round inside guys makes a lot of sense. Matthews would play ROLB in the 3-4; Curry and Maualuga would play LILB.

 

Maybe you could turn Matthews into an inside guy, but I don't see how that would be a good use of his talents (especially his pass-rush skills).

[WPB Dawg Fan]

For anyone who missed it last night:

 

 

.

Funny....this video shows EXACTLY what I have been saying about Mays. Watch the hit. He leads with his shoulder (actually turning his body) and has his arms underneath his body.

 

It is TERRIBLE technique. It is also the kind of technique that is going to draw attention by the refs and get a lot of penalties called.

 

The more I see of these BIG HITTERS...the more I don't want them.

[Flugel]

I kind of like the Curry rd 1, Chung rd 2 combo. If you watched the Oregon game....you saw Chung lay the lumber on more than one occasion...and it gives us the top LBer in the draft, and the #2 SS as well.

 

I also had problems with Mays tackling technique. He didn't wrap up. He just lowered his shoulder and threw his body at the carrier. On at least 2 occasions in the first half the ball carrier bounced off him for big gains (one for a TD). He may be coached to wrap up...but his instincts are to lay the big hit first...and instincts are hard to break.

 

In fairness, I think you're making the exception into the rule on this one. You don't earn Consensus All American if you're having difficulty tackling people as a Safety if your INT numbers aren't high. The ONLY Penn State ballcarrier I saw scoring a TD on the ground was Clark on a QB draw play which wouldn't include a Safety in the replay. They scored 2 other times on pass plays near the sidelines meaning stay away from the Safety - just go after the corner.

 

I DID see Mays jarring footballs loose on 2 different collisions he made. Did you see the play where the Penn State RB broke off a 40 yard run early on? The conclusion of that play was a turnover because Taylor Mays pryed the ball loose and USC recovered it. That's the kind of game changing event that swings momentum and did. The game was a 7 point difference at the time.

 

I'm sure there might be a couple things to fine tweak with Mays at the next level. The All American highlights on Mays prior to what he did vrs Penn State showcased the same intimidating hits. Our Safeties don't scare anybody to cross our middle and neither guy runs 4.2s or weighs 235. End result? Who has reason to drop the ball over the middle on us? We want to CREATE Dennis Northcutt Syndrome over the middle. Nobody has reason to go mini-skirt over the middle on us right now because our safeties always seem to be too late. I think Sean Jones has had 1 knee surgery too many. I didn't see the same player in 2008 that I saw in 2007; and I call Brodney Pool "Peak-A-Boo" because I always seem to ask late in the game - "oh, he's playing today?" . We've got young corners that can use better help than they're getting.

 

Alot of your elite Defenses have a Bob Sanders, Ed Reed or a Polly-wanna-scare-you. Didn't BB once feel the urgency to equip our defense with Eric Turner? This kid couldn't remind me any more of Eric Turner except he's rumored to run faster and weigh about 20 pounds more. I saw a game changer yesterday. While I like Curry better than Rey at LBer all of a sudden, I'm not sure he has better upside than Clay Matthews Jr. Tradition says, USC defenders have treated us well just as Safeties that went to college in Los Angeles have.

- Tom F. (Why is it in EVERY freakin Rose Bowl that the Big 10 Defense looks like they've never seen the forward pass before? Those were uncontested routes ALL day and it's not like ALOT of these USC WRs go on to NFL stardom after they embarass the Big 10 secondaries.)

[WPB Dawg Fan]

I DID see Mays jarring footballs loose on 2 different collisions he made. Did you see the play where the Penn State RB broke off a 40 yard run early on? The conclusion of that play was a turnover because Taylor Mays pryed the ball loose and USC recovered it. That's the kind of game changing event that swings momentum and did. The game was a 7 point difference at the time.

 

Flugs..I saw that play too...and even the announcers finally admitted that they believed the ball was poked out by #7...and I gave mays props on that play as the one where he DID wrap up instead of going for the big hit. As for the TD....I believe it was the first TD (first half)...in which the runner bounced off him and went in for the score...and Mays never put his arms out...just went for the kill shot.

 

I agree that you don't get honors if you don't make tackles...but I am also saying that this kid has shown in THIS game that he is not as disciplined as I would like to see.

 

I guess I am less impressed with the BIG HIT and more impressed with the DEAD ON TECHNIQUE guy. If we had a D that tackled well already, go for the big hit...but right now we need disciplined technicians who wrap up the runner IN ADDITION to bringing the wood.

 

If Curry is there, I go that route. If not, Mays may be the option.

 

[Flugel]

Funny....this video shows EXACTLY what I have been saying about Mays. Watch the hit. He leads with his shoulder (actually turning his body) and has his arms underneath his body.

 

It is TERRIBLE technique. It is also the kind of technique that is going to draw attention by the refs and get a lot of penalties called.

 

The more I see of these BIG HITTERS...the more I don't want them.

 

Where and when did they start teaching tackling without shoulders WPB? Are you aware that Mays was a Consensus All American for HOW he tackles people? That's the WRONG video to show Cleveland Browns' fans growing tired of too much ankle grabbing and passiveness over the middle of our secondary. It's no wonder why nobody ever drops passes crossing our middle. After watching Polly play Safety at the next level - I think Pete Carroll knows what he's doing better than you're giving him credit for here in this debate.

 

Just out of curiosity, did that receiver catch the ball or drop it? If you watch the reply like I have about 20 times. The officials got it wrong. It wasn't head to head. Mays led with his shoulder like they TEACH text book tackling. I've attended about 40 football camps in my life and I've never once seen someone teach ankle grabbing or arm tackling as the preferred way to do it. Football isn't played on a Madden video game - it's played outdoors with pads and hard surfaces. You teach hit with the shoulder, wrap with the arms and drive through the man so he's planted on the ground.

 

Mays also caused a fumble which created quite the point swing from just being up 7 and almost zero to going up 14 points and having momentum juice the rest of the team. Maybe it's just me, but there's something intriguing about a Safety weighing 235 pounds and running 4.2s that LOVES to intimidate people corssing his middle. I think he'll have more immediate impact than a guy like

- Tom F. (I keep visualizing what you can do with blitzes or against some of the AFC North receivers that remain unchallenged by our secondary)

 

[Guest Masters]

Funny....this video shows EXACTLY what I have been saying about Mays. Watch the hit. He leads with his shoulder (actually turning his body) and has his arms underneath his body.

 

It is TERRIBLE technique. It is also the kind of technique that is going to draw attention by the refs and get a lot of penalties called.

 

The more I see of these BIG HITTERS...the more I don't want them.

 

You lost me on this one WPB. That was text book. Seperate the WR from the ball when he comes across the middle.

[WPB Dawg Fan]

Flugs...I know you lead with the shoulder...and HIT with the shoulder...but you don't do it with your arms tucked under your body....which is what he did on that play...and several others.

 

As for the hit in that video itself...I saw the helmet to helmet. It was there. The shoulder hit first...but the helmets also connected. He also LEFT HIS FEET AND WENT HIGH on the hit. Which, even without the helmet to helmet, would be a PF for unnecessary roughness in the NFL new rules. So either way you go on it...it was a bad decision.

 

If he can learn to get his arms extended instead of relying on the hit to take the ball carrier down...great. But when he starts going against guys as fast and as big and as talented as he is in the NFL....not using his arms is going to get him into trouble.

[WPB Dawg Fan]

You lost me on this one WPB. That was text book. Seperate the WR from the ball when he comes across the middle.

 

Nope, not even close.

 

1. He turned his body sideways before contact.

2. He left his feet and went high (unnecessary roughness in NFL)

3. He hit helmet to helmet (unnecessary roughness in NFL)

4. He left his arms tucked underneath him/no wrap up

 

Text book is going shoulder first with arms extended to the chest/mid-section. Not leaving your feet, going high, turning your body, and leaving your arms tucked beneath you.

 

[Guest Masters]

Nope, not even close.

 

1. He turned his body sideways before contact.

2. He left his feet and went high (unnecessary roughness in NFL)

3. He hit helmet to helmet (unnecessary roughness in NFL)

4. He left his arms tucked underneath him/no wrap up

 

Text book is going shoulder first with arms extended to the chest/mid-section. Not leaving your feet, going high, turning your body, and leaving your arms tucked beneath you.

 

1. He turned his shoulder into the guy.

2. Agree, didn't need to leave his feet. But I saw him excellerate off his feet right before contact.

3. It was not helmet to helmet. That was all shoulder. Bad call by the refs.

4. He is not tackling, he is seperating the WR fromt he ball when the ball arrives. This is a routine play by top safties in the NFL.

5. Did the WR catch the ball?

 

That is text book for making a tackle in open space, not for seperating a WR from the football, when the ball is just arriving.

[Flugel]

Flugs..I saw that play too...and even the announcers finally admitted that they believed the ball was poked out by #7...and I gave mays props on that play as the one where he DID wrap up instead of going for the big hit. As for the TD....I believe it was the first TD (first half)...in which the runner bounced off him and went in for the score...and Mays never put his arms out...just went for the kill shot.

 

I agree that you don't get honors if you don't make tackles...but I am also saying that this kid has shown in THIS game that he is not as disciplined as I would like to see.

 

I guess I am less impressed with the BIG HIT and more impressed with the DEAD ON TECHNIQUE guy. If we had a D that tackled well already, go for the big hit...but right now we need disciplined technicians who wrap up the runner IN ADDITION to bringing the wood.

 

If Curry is there, I go that route. If not, Mays may be the option.

 

Look, I respect your opinion but in this case - I think you're running with the exception and not the rule. Mays has about the best football defensive coach you can have teaching the art of tackling, which is a lost art in Cleveland so this kid jumped off the tv at me. I don't need to hear someone else tell me that someone else MIGHT have caused the fumble when he's showing me a replay 4 times that only 1 player caused the fumble. All Herby had to do was WATCH what we kept seeing and he would have seen the other USC kid with his back to the play. Instead Herbie was doing his John Madden impersonation and describing something completely different than the tv screen was showing us.

 

Curry is a NICE choice and I think yesterday put him quite a bit of Rey IMO. I wouldn't have ANY problem with Curry. That said, if they're projecting Clay Matthews for round 2 - I think I can find reason to HOPE we go Mays then Matthews at 1 and 2. I watched a USC game earlier this year where they said Matthews was the backup so I think what's happened is he's continued to improve into what we witnessed yesterday. Was anyone more impressive than Matthews at the LBer position? Do our LBers ever sack QBs? Or hit them during the pass? Matthews was so impressive that we barely noticed the better known kids like Rey and Cushing. I think the other ILBer is VERY underrated in that defense.

He made a ratload of tackles where you want your ILBers making them.

- Tom F.

[Spectrum]

JewDago mentioned the idea of drafting Mays a month or so ago in one of those draft threads, and I said I wasn't sure about drafting a safety when I feel Jones and Pool are pretty solid. At least not the first area to address on the defensive side of the ball.

 

Since then, I've made a point to watch some USC games, and I have to take back what I said. He is certainly a beast. His play reminds me alot of Sean Taylor. Maybe it also has to do with his size and speed. But I wouldn't complain if he ended up on this team. I haven't ever been sold on Maualuga. He is as others have said in this thread, inconsistent. I do love Curry. He does play alot like Patrick Willis. And I am hesitant to try and justify taking a safety in the top 5 picks. I know it probably shouldn't matter what position he plays if someone is talented enough to justify the draft position.

 

And I too would love to see Clay Matthews on the Browns. I felt it was partly for sentimental reasons, but after watching USC play a few times over the last 2 months, there are a lot more reasons to draft him in my book, that have nothing to do with who his father is. And I'm hoping that we stick with a 3-4 defense.

[WPB Dawg Fan]

Listen guys...I 'like' Mays. I think he has a lot of potential. But I keep coming back to the fact that our #1 and #2 NEEDS in this draft are LB and DE.

 

While Mays may very well be an improvement over what we have....there is NOTHING at LB and DE currently that I feel comfortable with...and if we improve there...I think the guys we have at S would be plenty good enough to get the job done.

 

Jones and Pool were both injured last year...but still played decent ball. If they had a little less time that they needed to cover...and a little less run support REQUIRED....they will get the job done.

 

I don't think adding a S is going to significantly improve our pass rush or run stoppage.

 

I would far prefer we get Curry and then a DE in round 2....maybe Tyson Jackson out of LSU if he slips a bit.

[Guest Masters]

I don't think adding a S is going to significantly improve our pass rush or run stoppage.

 

How much does having Bob Sanders on the field help Indy stop the run?

 

I am not advocating picking Mays, but he could have as much impact stopping the run as any ILB in the draft. I certainly think he'd help more than Rey.

[Flugel]

1. He turned his shoulder into the guy.

2. Agree, didn't need to leave his feet. But I saw him excellerate off his feet right before contact.

3. It was not helmet to helmet. That was all shoulder. Bad call by the refs.

4. He is not tackling, he is seperating the WR fromt he ball when the ball arrives. This is a routine play by top safties in the NFL.

5. Did the WR catch the ball?

 

That is text book for making a tackle in open space, not for seperating a WR from the football, when the ball is just arriving.

 

I saw what you saw Masters. I've watched the play countless times and I've never once seen the spearing described or flagged. The first contact is the shoulder and I could watch it 15 more times and not be convinced otherwise. I think it's evident, announcers don't always watch replays and I think it was clear when they tried to invent another player prying the ball loose from the Penn State RB earlier on in the game as they kept showing a replay of Mays causing the fumble.

 

I didn't even set out to WANT to see Mays impressing me most. I wanted Rey to intrigue me alot more than he did but I came away most impressed with Clay Matthews and Taylor Mays on that defense. The 3rd most impressive player was the other ILBer on that team. #42??? That might be wrong but he's other Samoan kid that caught my eye for consistency better than Rey. I gotta call it like I saw it though.

 

I LIKE Curry alot but if we can get the footspeed of Mays and Matthews into our defense in the first 2 rounds on a D that lacks foot speed, I gotta reconsider the bang for buckage if Matthews remains a rd 2 projection. Our defense is slow right now and one of those guys is rumored to run 4.2s and the other runs 4.5s. We got room for that IMO.

- Tom F.

[Guest Masters]

I saw what you saw Masters. I've watched the play countless times and I've never once seen the spearing described or flagged. The first contact is the shoulder and I could watch it 15 more times and not be convinced otherwise. I think it's evident, announcers don't always watch replays and I think it was clear when they tried to invent another player prying the ball loose from the Penn State RB earlier on in the game as they kept showing a replay of Mays causing the fumble.

 

I didn't even set out to WANT to see Mays impressing me most. I wanted Rey to intrigue me alot more than he did but I came away most impressed with Clay Matthews and Taylor Mays on that defense. The 3rd most impressive player was the other ILBer on that team. #42??? That might be wrong but he's other Samoan kid that caught my eye for consistency better than Rey. I gotta call it like I saw it though.

 

I LIKE Curry alot but if we can get the footspeed of Mays and Matthews into our defense in the first 2 rounds on a D that lacks foot speed, I gotta reconsider the bang for buckage if Matthews remains a rd 2 projection. Our defense is slow right now and one of those guys is rumored to run 4.2s and the other runs 4.5s. We got room for that IMO.

- Tom F.

 

I have liked Mattherws and Cushing over Rey since the USC/OSU game. I went to that game, and Clay Matthews name was called over and over (which made it more painful) for making plays. While Reys name was barely called.

[Flugel]

Listen guys...I 'like' Mays. I think he has a lot of potential. But I keep coming back to the fact that our #1 and #2 NEEDS in this draft are LB and DE.

 

While Mays may very well be an improvement over what we have....there is NOTHING at LB and DE currently that I feel comfortable with...and if we improve there...I think the guys we have at S would be plenty good enough to get the job done.

 

Jones and Pool were both injured last year...but still played decent ball. If they had a little less time that they needed to cover...and a little less run support REQUIRED....they will get the job done.

 

I don't think adding a S is going to significantly improve our pass rush or run stoppage.

 

I would far prefer we get Curry and then a DE in round 2....maybe Tyson Jackson out of LSU if he slips a bit.

 

WPB, as always, you make some good points. You really do. I'm just trying to open your mind in this debate. Don't they always say you need to draft the best guy available instead of going by need in round 1? Once Mays declares - you're going to see the public wood factor for him go from balsa to sekoya.

 

In 2007, Sean Jones was arguably the most valuable defensive player we had. In 2008, he had his 2nd knee surgery on the knee he blew out as a rookie and I don't think he's ever regained his form. The game is all about wear and tear and upside. Brodney Pool runs too hot and cold for me to ever get comfortable with when he's even healthy enough to suit up. Some of the guys we STICK with just don't have the upside of a Mays or a Matthews. These guys are currently coached by a former PRO Defensive Coach and I don't think we should underrate that.

 

A Safety like Eric Turner once took away Ben Coates in a post season game so the RIGHT guy can do more for your pass defense than you think. As Masters points out Bob Sanders or even Polly make opponents game plan exclusively for them. Do you realize Mays is supposed to be FASTER than Polly? That's a FUN guy to have on your side of a chess match. With Mays, he's about 235 pounds carrying that footspeed so he just has a uniqueness about him that reminds us what an Eric Turner type can bring to our defense.

 

We just spent GNP of several countries overseas on Corey Williams to play DE so I think a new contract incentive to play at a certain weight AFTER he heals up this offseason could work well for him and us. He should be able to play in either scheme since he came from a 4-3 nd had more than 7 sacks in it. Adding Clay Matthews in round 2 gives us a LBer CAPABLE of reaching the QB we lack at this point. We shouldn't have to ALWAYS blitz our Safeties or Corners. That said, I think Mays and Matthews has the speed to give us more than pawns in our plan of attack in the chess match.

- Tom F.

[BigBrownsFan]

Actually, the hit WAS helmet to helmet. It was replayed again a little past the point where Aloysius' video lets off. For some damn reason, I forgot to TIVO the game, so I cannot back it up with the other angle they showed, but it was definately helmet to helmet.

 

If that was Ryan Clark laying out Braylon Edwards you all would have been saying how dirty it was.

 

Aloy, if you can find the replay past the end of yours it has another replay on it.

 

That said, the kid is an animal - Sean Taylor, Steve Atwater and John Lynch all in one.

[Guest Aloysius]

There are a bunch of clips on YouTube, all too grainy to give you definitive evidence of anything.

 

Mays could end being a linebacker-sized Bob Sanders. Not a guy who'll gets a lot of picks, but he'll be another LB in the run game and a hitman in the secondary.

 

Mays is also pretty smart. He got a 1200 on his SAT (old test), which is better than most quarterbacks do.

[Flugel]

There are a bunch of clips on YouTube, all too grainy to give you definitive evidence of anything.

 

Mays could end being a linebacker-sized Bob Sanders. Not a guy who'll gets a lot of picks, but he'll be another LB in the run game and a hitman in the secondary.

 

Mays is also pretty smart. He got a 1200 on his SAT (old test), which is better than most quarterbacks do.

 

Aloy,

You are just MONEY!

 

About your concerns of Matthews OVER Curry. I'm stating I want Mays over Curry with Matthews becoming the 2nd round compensation for the LBer position. We don't know that Matthews can't play ILBer. Matthews is allegedly projected for round 2 but here's a kid that's just STARTING to show people what he can do. We're seeing upside and the reality that there's more to come. That right there pretty much explains why Clay stoled the show from the other LBers yesterday. There's no way anyone leaves that game with the impression that Clay Matthews isn't their best LBer right now as opposed to 7-10 weeks ago. We've made alot mistakes when we've contemplated upside vrs best football already played.

 

Clay's FATHER, self-described as being less athletic than his son, was awesome enough to play inside AND Outside LBer for us during his long tenure here. His kid will be the same way because he's a big boy with better foot speed than dad.

 

On Clay's final hit on the QB yesterday, didn't they line him up at ILBer? I thought I saw him standing up at the G-C gap and he just shot right through it. He's got that quickness that's innate. He'll be 3rd generation of pro football player in the bloodlines. While I LIKED every highlight I saw on Curry and I now like him better than Rey - I STILL think getting Mays in round 1 with Matthews in round 2 realy improves the footspeed lacking on our defense at this time. You can do so much more with creativity when you got speed like that in your lineup. Pittsburgh's defense in 2007 wasn't anything like it was in 2008 and the biggest difference? Polly is healthy and Dick LeBeau has alot of fun. That said, look how Baltimore can have fun with a guy like Ed Reed.

 

If you were told to pick a LBer for us after the game yesterday and your choices were: Lauranitis, Curry, Rey, Cushing or Matthews - who would you pick? My fondness for Curry is off a collection of his greatest plays. I'm impressed but who watches Wake Forrest play football very often? Can Curry takeover a game like Matthews did against a much better opponent than Navy? I'm REALLY starting to dig the idea of Mays in round 1 and Matthews in round 2 if doable. Our defense lacks footspeed, which shows up in so many different ways. These 2 kids bring us 4.2s and 4.5s, which is ideal for both positions of need on our roster. For example, how about a blitz that touches the passer BEFORE he throws the ball? We used to have those when we looked to USC for it.

- Tom F.

[Guest Aloysius]

I want Mays over Curry with Matthews becoming the 2nd round compensation for the LBer position. We don't know that Matthews can't play ILBer. Matthews is allegedly projected for round 2 but here's a kid that's just STARTING to show people what he can do. We're seeing upside and the reality that there's more to come. That right there pretty much explains why Clay stoled the show from the other LBers yesterday. There's no way anyone leaves that game with the impression that Clay Matthews isn't their best LBer right now as opposed to 7-10 weeks ago. We've made alot mistakes when we've contemplated upside vrs best football already played.

Fair enough.

 

About a month ago, I predicted that Matthews would be a 5 sacks per year kind of guy. After watching a lot more of him, I think he could be significantly more than that. And if that's the case, then it'd be a waste to stick him inside in a 3-4.

 

Maybe you could turn him into a lunch pail version of Lawrence Timmons: a guy whose position nominally is ILB, but who lines up to rush the passer from a multitude of different spots. Still, I'm not sure I see an everydown ILB in Matthews. But as I said, I've already been wrong about this guy before...

 

If you were told to pick a LBer for us after the game yesterday and your choices were: Lauranitis, Curry, Rey, Cushing or Matthews - who would you pick? My fondness for Curry is off a collection of his greatest plays. I'm impressed but who watches Wake Forrest play football very often? Can Curry takeover a game like Matthews did against a much better opponent than Navy?

By the way, I have a lot of respect for you being willing to say you're not entirely comfortable with Curry because you haven't seen a lot of Wake Forest. Not having seen a lot of Wake makes you normal, and not pre-judging Curry makes you a very responsible poster.

 

By contrast, I'm completely insane, so I've watched more of Curry than I have of Maualuga this year. And I can say with confidence that Curry has games like Matthews' performance yesterday. He may be a little more raw as a pass-rusher, but that's because he's been too disruptive a force in other areas for the coaches to blitz him every down. I mean, you're talking about a guy who returned 3 picks for TD's last year and who's been called "an absolute terror in the run game" by Todd McShay. He can take over games, though he usually does it in more subtle ways than hitting the quarterback.

 

An example: getting an open-field tackle on a play in which he was the only guy who wasn't tricked by the reverse. Had he not been the smart guy & the form tackler, that would have gone for six & altered the momentum of the Clemson game. Instead, he made it a run for negative yardage.

 

And you have the Virginia game this year in which Curry had a FF (& recovery), a QB hit that led to an interception, a pass deflection, and a few TFL's, including one that occurred at Wake's 5 yard line.

 

For a guy likely to move inside in a 3-4, that's pretty good stuff. I think it matches up well with the production and potential that a guy like Taylor Mays offers.

 

Like JewDago, I'd be cool with drafting either one of those guys. But at this point, I think I'd go with Curry.

[Spectrum]

the potential remains that the Browns trade out of the 5th pick, down to perhaps 10th and can maybe pick up a second 2nd round pick. I think this could potentially be a good situation if it provides the Browns the opportunity to select Mays in the 1st round, and Matthews in the 2nd, while having another 2nd round pick to snag Greene.

 

Tho, if Chris Wells decides to come back, I find it hard to believe that Greene will make it to round 2. He'd quickly become the 1st or 2nd rated RB in the draft. And Moreno has the potential to remain at UGA for his junior season. I think his decision rides more on what Stafford does.

 

There aren't a lot of RBs to get excited about in this years draft. Wells, Greene, Moreno, and that kid from Liberty I suppose. I'm 100% against a guy like Ringer. His stats are misleading. YPC are low. He had a lot of TDs because he was their offense. if you give Jamal Lewis 450-500 carries, he'd have 1500yds too.

 

The other guy I do like is the big back from Oregon. Not the guy slated to come out this year, Jeremiah Johnson #24, but LeGarrette Blount #9. Junior, JuCo transfer, 6'2" 240lbs. He was their secondary RB this season, with Johnson getting most of the work. In that role, he averaged over 7ypc, had 900+ yds and 16tds. I honestly have no idea if he's going to come out this year. I don't follow a whole lot of pac-10 football. But I'd assume he'll stay to have the fulltime job next season.

 

 

or

 

 

[Guest Aloysius]

I'm not huge on DBs up high, but Mays would be that kind of guy. I would put him up there with Curry on my list now (Rey-Rey fell off for me, too). I'm waiting to see what Beanie does, but I'm thinking the notion of getting Shonn Greene in round 2 will become outdated soon.

I think you're right about Greene. Ironically, our hiring his college coach to be our HC could make it less likely that Shonn ends up in Cleveland. Because of that relationship, any teams interested in Greene will be looking to trade up ahead of us. And with our small set of picks this year, I don't know if we have the ammo to trade up ourselves into the late 1st to make sure we get him.

 

Of course, all of this could change if Greene doesn't work out well or runs a poor 40 at the Combine. But as of now, I'm thinking we may end up having to look elsewhere for our young stud RB.

 

An interesting draft nugget: if you look the last ten year's drafts, it's a virtual lock that between 5-7 running backs will be taken in the first two rounds. The only exception to that rule is the 2003 draft, in which Willis McGahee and Larry Johnson were the only decent RB's available.

 

What this means is that if you can find 8 or 9 running backs that you think can be decent pro's, you can afford to wait until the 3rd Round to draft your guy. That's especially true if you're planning on using him as a committee back.

 

If we get a 3rd for DA, I wouldn't be surprised if we ended up taking our RB there. Maybe Rashad Jennings falls, or maybe we make Russ's day and "reach" for Tyrell Sutton.

 

Either way, we should be able to find a back that can contribute next year, especially if Kirk Ferentz is making our o-line even better.

[JewDago]

as aloy has said, i'm fine with either curry or mays. we just have to hope that we have the chance to pick either. there's also the chance that we could fleece oakland into giving us a pick (any pick) to trade with them so they can get mays, though i'd be fairly upset if we came out of this draft without either mays or curry in the first.

 

chung is a great option in the second if we go curry in the first, but i don't see him as a huge upgrade over the guys we currently have, so it's somewhat of a moot point. if we don't get mays in the first, and therefore need to take a pass rusher in the second, we need to go RB in round two.

 

taking a DB in the top 10 is an interesting prospect; since 2002, here are the top 10 selections at CB and S:

quentin jammer cb

roy williams s

terence newman cb

sean taylor s

deangelo hall cb

dunta robinson cb

adam jones cb

antrel rolle cb/s

carlos rogers cb

michael huff s

donte whitner s

laron landry s

 

of that list, jammer, hall, robinson, rolle and huff qualify as guys who haven't performed to their draft status. only one is a pure safety. three of the other four are pure corners, and rolle is a man without a position. he's not quite fast enough to play corner but doesn't know safety well enough yet. he's coming on, though, and is a possible exclusion from the list.

 

the point of all of this is that safeties taken in the top 10 are normally special players, something mays has definitely shown himself as having the potential to be. when picking in the top 10, especially the top 5, you're looking at floor, ceiling and team need, likely in that order, to determine who you want to draft.

 

between curry and mays, i'd say mays has the higher ceiling, curry the higher floor and the browns need an ILB more than a safety. personally, i'm a bit enamored with mays. he's flashy; i like that. i also haven't seen curry play, which means that i'm not really qualified to evaluate him.

 

matthews might sneak into the first after the way he came on towards the end of the season. if he decides to play in the shrine game or any other senior-type bowl and plays well, his stock will soar.

 

being able to subtly take over a game is what an ILB does. he doesn't get to the QB, but he patrols the middle and takes away throwing and running lanes, which it sounds like is exactly what curry knows how to do, much like patrick willis.

 

last, lagarrette blount is a monster. he stood out in the oregon/oklahoma state game as someone who runs with power and absolutely demoralizes the opposing defense. brandon jacobs. he could be huge in the league.