jnuh Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 All you guys who don't want Williams are nuts. Williams is a stud, at a position of need and at 26 in the prime of his career. He could be the guy who puts an up and coming defense over the top (along with drafting an outside backer as well and retaining DQ)He could give the defense an idenity. Someone opposing teams have to account for. As far as you guys who are thinking why would he leave the Texans for the Browns ... It is simple really. Money. At 26 he is looking more for a huge payday then a championship. Plus he doesn't want to be a 3-4 outside backer he wants to be where he is comfortable in the 4-3 at DE. I say grab him. I would do whatever it took to get him. And even if they got him I would still even pursue trading with the Giants for Osi. Osi, Sheard, and Williams would cause some serious pass rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawginIT Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 The draft class at DE is pretty deep. Nick Perry, Melvin Ingram, Whitney Mercilus, or Brandon Jenkins could be available with our second 1st rounder or our second rounder. These are players that would solidify our d line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 The draft class at DE is pretty deep. Nick Perry, Melvin Ingram, Whitney Mercilus, or Brandon Jenkins could be available with our second 1st rounder or our second rounder. These are players that would solidify our d line. Very true. I would not be upset if we landed any of those prospects. I'd include Vinny Curry in the discussion as well. But we still need to acquire some FA's. Williams is probably the best value we'll get for the price, and that would leave us to address another need with the draft pick we would have used for DE. Either way, I'm happy. We're nearing the point where we can stop adding middle-quality depth FA's and pull the trigger on a more influential "gamebreaker" type FA. It's scary to think about, but it's the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I mean I see the point Hoorta is making. When I think of paying insane money to a FA from another that should be the guy that puts a playoff contender over the hump to a super bowl. We have a lot of cap room but Mario Williams is going to get a Demarcus Ware esque contract according to most things i've seen (6 years, 79 mil). That's ALOT of money to throw at one guy on a 4-12 level football team. I'd be a lot more intrigued if I felt DE was the last piece to the puzzle to make the team contenders, but that just isn't true. I think we're one solid draft away from really being able to go out and get the top guys. I realistically see him getting the franchise tag though. Sure Brooks Reed looked good but Mario is a top 2-3 DE and defensive player in this league. It's tough though because the Texans have to consider Foster re-signing and Schaub who's up for a new contract this next season. I also really really like the DE class in this years draft. There's 3-4 guys that we can easily nab with our second 1st round pick or 2nd round pick that are going to IMO be good starters in the NFL (ingram, mericulus, perry). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I mean I see the point Hoorta is making. When I think of paying insane money to a FA from another that should be the guy that puts a playoff contender over the hump to a super bowl. We have a lot of cap room but Mario Williams is going to get a Demarcus Ware esque contract according to most things i've seen (6 years, 79 mil). That's ALOT of money to throw at one guy on a 4-12 level football team. I'd be a lot more intrigued if I felt DE was the last piece to the puzzle to make the team contenders, but that just isn't true. I think we're one solid draft away from really being able to go out and get the top guys. I realistically see him getting the franchise tag though. Sure Brooks Reed looked good but Mario is a top 2-3 DE and defensive player in this league. It's tough though because the Texans have to consider Foster re-signing and Schaub who's up for a new contract this next season. I also really really like the DE class in this years draft. There's 3-4 guys that we can easily nab with our second 1st round pick or 2nd round pick that are going to IMO be good starters in the NFL (ingram, mericulus, perry). Exactly- you evaluate the DEs in this draft class, and if you think they're worthy- you take one of them and don't blow 80 million of cap room on one player. Mario Williams is not going to turn the Browns into a Super Bowl team in 2012- not without another linebacker or two, a solid corner opposite Joe Haden, and someone better at saftey opposite Ward than Young or Adams. That's not even counting the massive holes that have to be plugged on the offensive side. Can't be done in one year. As I've said before- I'm not averse to spending money on FAs- but do it INTELLIGENTLY. How about spending $20-30 million on a stud FA RT instead? I'm well past the ohhh, ahh, gotta have this guy stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Exactly- you evaluate the DEs in this draft class, and if you think they're worthy- you take one of them and don't blow 80 million of cap room on one player. Mario Williams is not going to turn the Browns into a Super Bowl team in 2012- not without another linebacker or two, a solid corner opposite Joe Haden, and someone better at saftey opposite Ward than Young or Adams. That's not even counting the massive holes that have to be plugged on the offensive side. Can't be done in one year. As I've said before- I'm not averse to spending money on FAs- but do it INTELLIGENTLY. How about spending $20-30 million on a stud FA RT instead? I'm well past the ohhh, ahh, gotta have this guy stage. I agree, you have to spend intelligently. Mario Williams is 26 years old, in the prime of his career, has no history of injury problems, is not an off-the-field distraction, and from all accounts is a tremendous person. His stats have never wavered, and even in his off years he makes it to the Pro Bowl. Honestly, this would probably be the most intelligent FA decision since returning. I agree his contract will be quite large, but not nearly as huge as some of the WR's people have been demanding we acquire year in and out. Most of his contract with the Texans was performance based, and for a first overall pick it was relatively cheap. I also realize the draft class is stacked with quality DE's and adding Williams won't happen. But to not add an FA because he's not going to "put you over the hump" is ridiculous. No single player will do that, honestly. But avoiding FA because of that, however, is a sure fire way of keeping yourself from ever getting over the hump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnuh Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Mario Williams is good for atleast 10-12 sacks a year. And that was on teams with pretty weak players along the Texans D-line. If you put him next to Rubin, Taylor, and Sheard 3 guys who have to all be accounted for he is going to help generate a helluva pass rush. A pass rush that could be so good it will help cover any flaws our secondary might have. Obviously he isn't going to take us from a 4-12 team to a contender. He will however be able to get to Flacco, Berger, and Dalton on a pretty regular basis and force them into making mistakes. Getting him also free's up a first or second rounder that we would need to otherwise use on a DE and use it on a LB or DB If the Browns wanted to pursue him I don't think it would be impossible to think he would come here. We just have to outbid other teams. It is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I agree, you have to spend intelligently. Mario Williams is 26 years old, in the prime of his career, has no history of injury problems, is not an off-the-field distraction, and from all accounts is a tremendous person. His stats have never wavered, and even in his off years he makes it to the Pro Bowl. Honestly, this would probably be the most intelligent FA decision since returning. I agree his contract will be quite large, but not nearly as huge as some of the WR's people have been demanding we acquire year in and out. Most of his contract with the Texans was performance based, and for a first overall pick it was relatively cheap. I also realize the draft class is stacked with quality DE's and adding Williams won't happen. But to not add an FA because he's not going to "put you over the hump" is ridiculous. No single player will do that, honestly. But avoiding FA because of that, however, is a sure fire way of keeping yourself from ever getting over the hump. "No history of injury problems?" A torn pectoral that put him on IR for the year, plus a couple of other injuries where he lost time doesn't count in your book? BS Williams will command a contract bigger than any WR FA this year, or any of the past 3 years. Take it to the bank. Boldin got 4 years, $28 million. Williams will get 3X that, at least. Glad you agree with me- I'll take 5 Fords that can play rather than one Mercedes. Us going after Williams is about as smart as the Eagles signing Asomugah. Yes Williams is a poor fit in Houston's 3-4, especially with the emergence of (the much cheaper) JJ Watt. Williams is going to want to get paid, big time- so it will happen- just not in Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballpeen Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'd take Williams. Sometimes you have to take a chance and make a bold move, and it is about time the Browns did. We have to kickstart this thing because drafting is a slow way to improving. Drafting is a good way to stay good, but when you suck, you have to add to the drafting process. I don't care what it costs. One way or another the team is going to fit it all inside the cap, and one way or the other the team is going to have to start spending the allotted amounts on player salaries, and I just don't see handing out big chunks of change to some of the scrubs we currently have on the roster. In the past it was linemen who jumped us a notch or two when we signed guys like Alzado and Harrsiton. Now we need to make a serious run at Williams. Drafting is great, but you can only expect to get maybe 2-3 players a draft who actually turn in to plus players, and that's best case. Some years it works out maybe 1 player. When you have possibly 12 holes to fill, you are looking at maybe 6 years of drafting. Then you have to factor that in 6 years players like Thomas will be about used up, so unless one plans on getting really lucky in the draft, we have to add some solid talent in free agency. If we don't we'll continue to be stuck in the mud for another 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb12711 Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't disagree with you guys that we need to go get some people in FA that can impact the team, and that drafting can't get it all done. Let me throw some perspective though. Look at Asomugha, probably the best FA last year which is the case for Williams this year. There were rumors about a billion teams getting him, but in reality it came down to three: the texans, the eagles and the jets. Top prize FA signings almost always go to the elite teams in the NFL. I guess what I'm trying to say is that Williams isn't going to come here unless we offer him a shit ton of money more than the other guys, which H&H won't do. the DE situation i'm way more interested in is actually in NY with the super bowl bound giants. those guys seem to have and endless supply of Defensive ends and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they try and move one (namely Osi) now that JPP looks like he's gonna be a monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 "No history of injury problems?" A torn pectoral that put him on IR for the year, plus a couple of other injuries where he lost time doesn't count in your book? BS Williams will command a contract bigger than any WR FA this year, or any of the past 3 years. Take it to the bank. Boldin got 4 years, $28 million. Williams will get 3X that, at least. Glad you agree with me- I'll take 5 Fords that can play rather than one Mercedes. Us going after Williams is about as smart as the Eagles signing Asomugah. Yes Williams is a poor fit in Houston's 3-4, especially with the emergence of (the much cheaper) JJ Watt. Williams is going to want to get paid, big time- so it will happen- just not in Cleveland. He's had this year on IR, where he played 5 games. Every year besides he played the entire season, except for 2010 when he missed 3 games. If thats "injury history", then nobody in the league is ever "healthy". As for his contract, he signed a six-year $56 million dollar contract as the first overall pick. That's probably near the same contract he'll get again. Now that rookies salaries are capped, GM's have a slight bit more pull in FA contract negotiations, which could ultimately lead to smaller contracts than years past. Either way, it's still a large contract, but by no means is it a Haynesworth style bankbuster. The thing is, we've taken Fords in the FA market for the last 5-6 years. At some point, you have to buy a luxury car, or else you're stick with....well....Fords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Who am I? I am an unrestricted free agent this year. I am 30 years old. I have 83.5 sacks in my career. I'm going to my fourth straight Pro Bowl next week. I have never had less than 9.5 sacks in a full season, I have forced 39 fumbles, and I have always played in a 4-3 system where the pressure comes from the ends. My name is Robert Mathis. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawginIT Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Who am I? I am an unrestricted free agent this year. I am 30 years old. I have 83.5 sacks in my career. I'm going to my fourth straight Pro Bowl next week. I have never had less than 9.5 sacks in a full season, I have forced 39 fumbles, and I have always played in a 4-3 system where the pressure comes from the ends. My name is Robert Mathis. Zombo I knew the answer but you already gave it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VENOM Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 He has high awareness and play recognition as a DE but has not made the transition to the OLB. He struggles in zone coverage and is not in a position to take full advantage of his skills. His instincts are good with enough moves both power and finesse to be very effective. He will be highly sought after as a free agent and get a nice payday. He is not what the Browns will go after but exactly what they need. Very seldom can you get a first overall pick that has been successful as a free agent. The Browns should but probably won't get this one. He is expecting and will get a ton of money. Probably more than he is worth! Don't be surprised to see James Harrison available too this offseason. His cap hit and age may have him on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nw220 Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/texans_might_let_mario_williams_walk_in_free_agency/9538670 Looks like Peter King thinks Williams may not be back in Houston... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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