Frenchie Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 He has high awareness and play recognition as a DE but has not made the transition to the OLB. He struggles in zone coverage and is not in a position to take full advantage of his skills. His instincts are good with enough moves both power and finesse to be very effective. He will be highly sought after as a free agent and get a nice payday. He is not what the Browns will go after but exactly what they need. Very seldom can you get a first overall pick that has been successful as a free agent. The Browns should but probably won't get this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchie Posted January 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Before it begins, let me state (as I have repeatedly done) that their philosophy is flawed. I support building through the draft, but you have to support that endeavor through a few select FA to keep the team from having too many needs. This guy is young enough and was a 1st rounder. Imagine a D line of Sheard, Taylor, Rubin, Williams with Mitchell to assist with the pass rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htownbrown Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I don't know, depends on the price. This guy can truly dominate, but much like LeBitch he sometimes just chooses not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 He has high awareness and play recognition as a DE but has not made the transition to the OLB. He struggles in zone coverage and is not in a position to take full advantage of his skills. His instincts are good with enough moves both power and finesse to be very effective. He will be highly sought after as a free agent and get a nice payday. He is not what the Browns will go after but exactly what they need. Very seldom can you get a first overall pick that has been successful as a free agent. The Browns should but probably won't get this one. Should? Should get into a bidding war with the Texans,... Resigning Williams Top Priority... and 5 other teams? We're not ready yet to offer Williams an Asoumugha level deal- because that's what it's going to take. Hmmmm... Lets see.... Resign with the Texans- who were missing Williams, Schaub, and had Andre Johnson playing on one leg- if their third string qb hadn't turned into an interception machine would be playing in the AFC Championship, or sign with a 4-12 doormat. Real tough decision I tell ya. He may even take a hometown discount for a VERY legit shot at the 2013 Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawginIT Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 No doubt he would be of some help. But I'd venture to guess the Browns pursue some one cheaper like Calais Campbell, Cliff Avril, or even Robert Mathis. I'm also excited to see Marcus Bernard come back next year. He's not an every down player but he can wreak havoc as a situational pass rusher because of his versatility to play OLB or DE. Although our defensive line is looking nice, I see this as a huge need for the Browns to fill the spot opposite of Sheard. They are one player away from completing a very good unit. Adding that DE will help sure up the run D and will give our already solid secondary a chance to ball hawk some next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 No doubt he would be of some help. But I'd venture to guess the Browns pursue some one cheaper like Calais Campbell, Cliff Avril, or even Robert Mathis. I'm also excited to see Marcus Bernard come back next year. He's not an every down player but he can wreak havoc as a situational pass rusher because of his versatility to play OLB or DE. Although our defensive line is looking nice, I see this as a huge need for the Browns to fill the spot opposite of Sheard. They are one player away from completing a very good unit. Adding that DE will help sure up the run D and will give our already solid secondary a chance to ball hawk some next year. I'd love to have Williams- but not at the AT LEAST 5 years, $60 million, $25 million guaranteed Asomugha got as a cornerback. DE is a higher value position, so tack on about $20 million more to get Super Mario. And IMHO, we're not just a DE away. Add in a LB (or two) someone to send Sheldon Brown to the bench, and a saftey upgrade over Young or Adams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Hands Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 He has high awareness and play recognition as a DE but has not made the transition to the OLB. He struggles in zone coverage and is not in a position to take full advantage of his skills. His instincts are good with enough moves both power and finesse to be very effective. He will be highly sought after as a free agent and get a nice payday. He is not what the Browns will go after but exactly what they need. Very seldom can you get a first overall pick that has been successful as a free agent. The Browns should but probably won't get this one. I would not put it past them to do so - pending him resigning with the texans- after all wasn't it green bay with holmgren as coach that brought in reggie white after 9 seasons with the eagles..... another possible option michael bush is also a free agent assuming they let hillis go does he become viable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClevelandBigDawg Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 The Browns have a lot of money this offseason if I am not mistaken. Also, if I heard right we HAVE to spend most of that for the season. So why not try to go and get a couple of bigger named players in the FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombo Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'm all for Williams or Robert Mathis signed to a huge contract. That would make our defensive line the best in the leagure and we could spend draft picks other places of need. If we are going to go after a big name FA, defensive end is the perfect hole to fill. Zombo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Buffalo Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 One of the few FA guys who is a sure thing hiring. His only concern is healthy but he has staying healthy for most of his time in the league. If you can get him then do it. Don't forget the Browns are not against signing high priced FA, they did go after Joesph last year and they gave him a very serious offer before he signed with the Texans. There basic strategy is to find under the radar types of guys and to sign them for cheap. Fujita who didn't do any better than average this year, but is a great team captain and had a career year going his first year here, Young who is a great depth guy at CB and can start at both Safety positions when needed, and Patterson who is a good nickle corner. I would want a pro bowler this season but I like the under the radar low risk possible high reward guys we have gone after the past two seasons as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nw220 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I really would like Williams but i think his price puts us out of the debate not to mention i dont know if Cleveland would interet him to play here,i think we will probaly sign Avrill from DET....What i would really like if we could just land a WR Stevie Johnson,Bowe,Jackson any of those guys would really help this team.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 price doesn't put us outta the debate. there's few teams with more cap space than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nw220 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 price doesn't put us outta the debate. there's few teams with more cap space than us. Agreed but if you listen to Heckert his post season interviews he has stated he dosent wanna go after big F/A signings, he pointed out that they would be looking at what they have been doing the last few seasons and continue in that manner ala building through the draft.. This does not mean i dont think they will sign a Big F/A, i hope they would i am simply stated an opinon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 yet, i find the completely opposite sentiment here * With questions, then, at quarterback, running back and wide receiver, how can he expect to fill out the offense in one draft? "It's not going to be easy," Heckert said. "I think free agency's got to be a part of it. If the right person's there, we'll try to do some of that. It's not easy to do, fill all these holes. I don't think we have as many holes as we did last year. But we have a lot of picks to do it." also, more here Heckert is asked about a QB in free agency? "That's probably not the way we'll go about it. You never know. There are a few guys in the league who have started and will be free agents. We're going to look at them. We'll evaluate all of them." * * * Holmgren is asked indirectly about Matt Flynn. "I think when you go into your second start and you break (a Packers) record, yeah, that's a little unusual. But we can't comment on players with other teams." Holmgren, on free agency: "We have a philosophy of how to build the team. Our record was poor. So the natural reaction is go crazy and spend millions of dollars. If that was the right thing to do in our opinion, we will do that. But that's not our philosophy for how to build this for the long term. You see teams do that every year. Does it guarantee anything? Absolutely not. So how do you build the team? "I've got a lot of faith in (Heckert). He's good at what he does. We have a good coach and a good coaching staff and good young players. We are not opposed to doing anything, but we are going to stay the course." besides, its the silly season. i dont put much stock in what is said either way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nw220 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Basically all i saw was him saying they were going to be active in F/A no where did i read that they were going to be big spenders..Like i previously stated i hope they are but knowing Heckert we will get quality players at quality prices, if we get Williams you can come back here and tell me you were right, which i hope you do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 im not saying i want williams....im saying i think you misinterpreted heckerts comments. the closest thing ive seen to what you are contending is this... “We don’t want to go out and sign 10 free agents,” Heckert said. “But if there’s a guy that we like, which hopefully there is, we’ll definitely go after him. Free agency is an area where you can get one or two players at positions that can help you. If there’s guys at certain positions, we’ll definitely go after them.” so, i'd like to see the interviews you are talking about. im trying to understand how you have insight into heckerts plan based of comments and statements that are deliberately misleading and vague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 Agreed but if you listen to Heckert his post season interviews he has stated he dosent wanna go after big F/A signings, he pointed out that they would be looking at what they have been doing the last few seasons and continue in that manner ala building through the draft.. This does not mean i dont think they will sign a Big F/A, i hope they would i am simply stated an opinon. Yea, because we are on Holmgren's 20 year plan Sooner or later, they are going to have to bring in some big name free-agents. I would rather it be sooner with a guy like Willams or DeSean Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nw220 Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'll post the interviews when i get a min, all he said was they were gonna stick to there format which was what they had been doing the past few years taking players that they thought could contribute but at the right price...He didnt say they wouldnt bring in someone but didnt think you could bring high priced F/As to build a team the right way.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 lol...i guess you didn't read what i posted above then.... using FA to build a team is not the same as never signing a big name free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I would not put it past them to do so - pending him resigning with the texans- after all wasn't it green bay with holmgren as coach that brought in reggie white after 9 seasons with the eagles..... another possible option michael bush is also a free agent assuming they let hillis go does he become viable? You have to remember when Green Bay picked up Reggie White they had a quarterback by the name of Bret Farve. Williams would be a serious upgrade over Mitchell, but the defense still has holes that need to be addressed. Of course, we can throw the bank at Williams, but my bet is he's going to resign with the Texans to get his shot at a Super Bowl. I'd much rather get 2-3 solid contributors than put all our eggs in one (very expensive) basket. Say guys like (last year) Jonathan Joseph who aren't going to command $50+ million contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownsKidd Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 I'll post the interviews when i get a min, all he said was they were gonna stick to there format which was what they had been doing the past few years taking players that they thought could contribute but at the right price...He didnt say they wouldnt bring in someone but didnt think you could bring high priced F/As to build a team the right way.. YOu are correct. They did state that the Draft is how they are going to build this team.. F/A isn't out of the question, but the Draft is how they are primarily going to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 19, 2012 Report Share Posted January 19, 2012 You have to remember when Green Bay picked up Reggie White they had a quarterback by the name of Bret Farve. Williams would be a serious upgrade over Mitchell, but the defense still has holes that need to be addressed. Of course, we can throw the bank at Williams, but my bet is he's going to resign with the Texans to get his shot at a Super Bowl. I'd much rather get 2-3 solid contributors than put all our eggs in one (very expensive) basket. Say guys like (last year) Jonathan Joseph who aren't going to command $50+ million contracts. I don't see what Brett Favre has to do with this. QB's don't play defense. We don't have a Brett Favre, we don't even have a Brittney Favre. But picking up Mario Williams doesn't affect the moves we make for QB. If anything, it helps out our QB search because picking up a DE through FA frees a draft pick we would have used on DE for a QB. And if we decide to go through the FA route, we have the money to afford both Mario Williams' and Matt Flynn's contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I don't see what Brett Favre has to do with this. QB's don't play defense. We don't have a Brett Favre, we don't even have a Brittney Favre. But picking up Mario Williams doesn't affect the moves we make for QB. If anything, it helps out our QB search because picking up a DE through FA frees a draft pick we would have used on DE for a QB. And if we decide to go through the FA route, we have the money to afford both Mario Williams' and Matt Flynn's contracts. Totally missing the point I see. Reggie White was the LAST piece of the puzzle, not the stepping stone. Teams reached for the last piece of the puzzle (Asomugah, Julio Jones) and fell flat on their ass last season. The Browns aren't anywhere close talent wise to the Eagles and Falcons- you you want to risk going for the grand Wazoo when it's damn obvious Williams won't put us over the top in 2012? Maybe not even in 2013 when we DON'T have the cap room to sign any quality players. Ever think about THAT? Flynn, schminn. Go for Drew Brees- give him $28 million Peyton Manning money while you're at it. Sorry- but going for an absolute stud #1 FA will affect everything else you do in free agency. Take a lesson from the hated Steelers- they bring in guys like Williams- like never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choco Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 overpaying either way is bad..... think the stools are happy about paying timmons 9.1 mil this year? they're 20 mil over the cap as is....and still need room to sign wallace... i could stomach a williams move cause he's young, but he's not gonna make or break this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gips Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Williams is the kind of FA the browns should go for in order to cap off an up and coming defense but something tells me this regime is just as ultra conservative on the financing side of the game as they appear to be on the field... Not to mention that if houston doesnt resign mario he would likely get equal offers from other places he would rather go.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsympathetic Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 What makes anyone think Williams would leave a SB contender for a team that's not a contender? He's already been through playing for Houston while they're not a contender.. I wouldn't waste time. Avril isn't strong against the run; I'd show the money to Campbell. Asserting that Cleveland doesn't spend money is gratuitously ignorant and objectively wrong - Steinbach was a giant contract, Bentley was a giant contract, Sheldon Brown was a decently large contract just last year, the linebackers continue to be on pretty big FA deals. Saving money to spend it smartly on proven talent is BETTER management than blowing a bunch of wild cash on free agents like Dan Snyder. Instead of Mario Williams, Calais Campbell is the one FA the Browns should go after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 You don't need to build your team through free agency... just don't ignore it completely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoorta Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Completely losing faith in some of you. Don't go after Mario Williams, yeah, that is really smart. We'll be fine with Jayme Mitchell or some other second or third rate DE again... Didn't I tell you he was garbage before the season started? How many people told me no, don't go after Osi or Kiwanuka? Mitchell is FINE. I was crazy. Rolling on the floor right now at the garbage being spewed. Who said Mitchell was fine? Not me. I do say it would take stupid, insane money to get Williams to leave Houston. Get used to the idea, Mario isn't coming to Cleveland. Yes upgrading DE opposite Sheard is a priority- but not an $80 million dollar priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Couch Pulls Out Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Who said Mitchell was fine? Not me. I do say it would take stupid, insane money to get Williams to leave Houston. Get used to the idea, Mario isn't coming to Cleveland. Yes upgrading DE opposite Sheard is a priority- but not an $80 million dollar priority. I don't believe he'll land here either. But that shouldn't be for a lack of trying. I get we have many missing pieces. I never claimed Mario would be the guy to put us over the top. No defensive end ever is that guy. He's a big name free agent with the stat line to match and with many, MANY miles still left in the tank, who isn't going to command as much as some of the other guys people have clamored for in FA. His contract will still be large, granted, but not so large that we won't have room for other players. In other words, he's probably the best "big name" FA acquisition we could in terms of production/value. Fact is, we have to spend a certain amount of our cap. Why spend it on five or six shite players as has been the case for the last 6 or 7 years? We're in the position to make drastic leaps this year, with the amount of draft picks we have and the cap room as well. We can finally afford to go for a big fish FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htownbrown Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 What makes anyone think Williams would leave a SB contender for a team that's not a contender? He's already been through playing for Houston while they're not a contender.. I wouldn't waste time. Avril isn't strong against the run; I'd show the money to Campbell. Asserting that Cleveland doesn't spend money is gratuitously ignorant and objectively wrong - Steinbach was a giant contract, Bentley was a giant contract, Sheldon Brown was a decently large contract just last year, the linebackers continue to be on pretty big FA deals. Saving money to spend it smartly on proven talent is BETTER management than blowing a bunch of wild cash on free agents like Dan Snyder. Instead of Mario Williams, Calais Campbell is the one FA the Browns should go after. The nice rookie year by Brooks Reed ensures the Texans won't bring back MW. They were trying to make Mario an OLB in a 3-4 system before he got hurt. That's too expensive of a project. Add to that, as talented as he is, he has looked lazy at times. The Texans have a top 5 defense without him........he's not going back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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