Westside Steve Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Hey guys. I thought I'd start a whole new thread so the Newt thread doesn't have to be hijacked. As far as I'm concerned, if 80 percent of the enlisted men and officers are fine with it then what's the problem? I find that number extremely hard to believe but..... WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Thank you. See this is why I said you were sane. A lot of these enlisted men and women are young (well probably all of them), and come from a generation of tolerance and acceptance of gays. I'm not surprised at all the a high percentage don't care. And the ones that do are probably Southern Christians or something so whatareyougonnado? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Thank you. See this is why I said you were sane. A lot of these enlisted men and women are young (well probably all of them), and come from a generation of tolerance and acceptance of gays. I'm not surprised at all the a high percentage don't care. And the ones that do are probably Southern Christians or something so whatareyougonnado? Well remember woody, I said I found that number a little hard to believe. I suppose it could be for real. Keep in mind, however, that most who enlist in the service are probably a little further right than the average population. And I will repeat this point, that most of the people I've been in contact with who were honest to God queer haters arent religious at all. Nor are they republicans. I was a theater major in college so I was part of the straight minority. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 There is one theater arts building on Michigan's north campus. North campus is 95% engineering, with this exception (and music). I always walk by that building wondering wtf those people do. They always seem like they are just standing around or goofing off. Nvr really doing any work. I can only think how much better off we'd be if we made that building for math or physics or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 There is one theater arts building on Michigan's north campus. North campus is 95% engineering, with this exception (and music). I always walk by that building wondering wtf those people do. They always seem like they are just standing around or goofing off. Nvr really doing any work. I can only think how much better off we'd be if we made that building for math or physics or something LOL I'll assume that wasn't actually meant as an insult... Anyway I went to Akron and yep we're about the same as far as the engineering bit goes. man does not live by blueprints alone. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 But what do you guys DO? I was in that building for 20 minutes a few days ago and it was clear I am no where near fabulous enough to be a theater arts major Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Well remember woody, I said I found that number a little hard to believe. I suppose it could be for real. Keep in mind, however, that most who enlist in the service are probably a little further right than the average population. And I will repeat this point, that most of the people I've been in contact with who were honest to God queer haters arent religious at all. Nor are they republicans. I was a theater major in college so I was part of the straight minority. WSS Steve, you keep trotting out this anecdotal trope about how the real racists are union Democrats. And now the real homophobes are the secular Democrats. It's pretty comical. Also, you know a bunch of Republicans in here, as well as a few Democrats/liberals. Who are the ones who hate gays in here? So, instead of continuing on with this nonsense, why don't you look at any - any - national survey done on these questions. You'll find that racial resentment is higher in the Republican Party than in the Democratic Party. (We've even discussed some of them.) And you'll find that negative opinions of homosexuality are far more prevalent in the Republican Party, and among people who describe themselves as religious in particular. The best predictors of someone who disapproves of homosexuality? Age, whether or not they're a Republican, and whether or not they're religious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 As for gays in the military, now that the new policy is in place we'll soon find out that all of the scary warnings about what would happen if we couldn't discharge gay people for being openly gay, and how that's going to affect unit cohesion, weren't true. And things will go on the way they always have. It's not going to be a big deal. Just like how states with gay marriage haven't suddenly seen a collapse - or even an effect - on straight marriages. Because being gay isn't a problem, or a disorder, or even weird. It's just what 2%-4% of the population is, will be, and always was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Steve, you keep trotting out this anecdotal trope about how the real racists are union Democrats. And now the real homophobes are the secular Democrats. It's pretty comical. Also, you know a bunch of Republicans in here, as well as a few Democrats/liberals. Who are the ones who hate gays in here? So, instead of continuing on with this nonsense, why don't you look at any - any - national survey done on these questions. You'll find that racial resentment is higher in the Republican Party than in the Democratic Party. (We've even discussed some of them.) And you'll find that negative opinions of homosexuality are far more prevalent in the Republican Party, and among people who describe themselves as religious in particular. The best predictors of someone who disapproves of homosexuality? Age, whether or not they're a Republican, and whether or not they're religious. Maybe you noticed what I was responding to. Remember the claim that the anti gays in the military must be southern and religious. Simmer down. WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I said probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 But what do you guys DO? I was in that building for 20 minutes a few days ago and it was clear I am no where near fabulous enough to be a theater arts major Well, like any other major you have various related subjects. You might learn history of the theater like the globe theatre or kabuki or greek or what ever it maybe. There are a lot of different acting classes ranging from the more modern stanislavski method to the classics. Dialect projection dramatically reading voice stuff. Improvisation. Then there were stage movement blocking and even a little bit of dance. Besides being on stage stuff was the stage craft part of it all building the sex painting the scrims hanging the light cans. Stagecraft guys had to put up the sets for whatever plays were being done in the school theatre. Also you got stuck with a few communications classes radio broadcasting tv that horseshit. But mostly we drank beer and chased dames. And I was a great Falstaff! WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 But mostly we drank beer and chased dames. The numbers were definitely in your favor. Maybe I'll knock out a general elective there...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrownsfan Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 If they are willing to server and protect the US, that is FABULOUS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 If there had been openly gays in the military, a whole LOT of us would never have joined. So there. Libs want OPENLY gays in the military, because they hate the military, says I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 If they are willing to server and protect the US, that is FABULOUS. *********************************** maybe if we want the UN to storm our shores and take our privately owned guns. But I do get your point.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I like to picture an old dude in a shack, holding a shotgun, waiting for enemies that never come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Oh, stop with the "fear" thing. It's more like the refusal to associate with. You haven't been in the military, you will never understand. And your slur about "religious" and "southern" is dumb. That's why somebody isn't gay? Because they are "religious" and "southern" ? The fear mongering, and bigoty is on the guy in your mirror. well, unless Heck is standing next to you. Then I just don't want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 "51% of the general public in the United States think that "homosexual behavior" is morally wrong (38% "completely agreeing" it is morally wrong and 13% "somewhat agreeing"). Males and people over 65 years old are more likely to think it is wrong. Among people who don't know someone who is LGB, 61% think the behavior is wrong. Broken down by religion, 60% of evangelical Christians think that it is wrong, whereas 11% with no religious affiliation are against it. ...A solid majority of Catholics and white mainline Protestants (56% and 55% respectively) favor allowing gay and lesbian couples to legally marry, compared to only 23% of white evangelical Protestants. ...Sixty-one percent of 18-34 year olds support allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry, but so do nearly 6-in-10 (57%) Americans between the ages of 35 and 49. ...Nearly 8-in-10 (77%) Americans who are not affiliated with any religion support same-sex marriage. So clearly, like Steve was saying, the real homophobes are liberal Democrats who aren't religious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfoxwc Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I guess they polled a hundred people in San Francisco. Libs demand links... they don't want to link themselves, though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 "51% of the general public in the United States think that "homosexual behavior" is morally wrong (38% "completely agreeing" it is morally wrong and 13% "somewhat agreeing"). Males and people over 65 years old are more likely to think it is wrong. Among people who don't know someone who is LGB, 61% think the behavior is wrong. Broken down by religion, 60% of evangelical Christians think that it is wrong, whereas 11% with no religious affiliation are against it. ...A solid majority of Catholics and white mainline Protestants (56% and 55% respectively) favor allowing gay and lesbian couples to legally marry, compared to only 23% of white evangelical Protestants. ...Sixty-one percent of 18-34 year olds support allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry, but so do nearly 6-in-10 (57%) Americans between the ages of 35 and 49. ...Nearly 8-in-10 (77%) Americans who are not affiliated with any religion support same-sex marriage. So clearly, like Steve was saying, the real homophobes are liberal Democrats who aren't religious. Not sure of the source of your stats, Heck - I don't necessarily read each and every post in detail - but, given the number of demographic groups cited above, it makes me wonder why this wasn't broken out by 'ethnic group' as well. Did you omit those numbers? Did the researchers overlook this key demographic? If so, why? Makes me kind of wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Those are Zogby, Washington Post/ABC News, and CNN/Opinion Research polls. There's also this one, which you can read in full. Maybe there are racial breakdowns in the raw data, though I don't know why that's important to you. This, after all, is a group that studies religion and politics, not race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaporTrail Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 I don't think black people are any more afraid of gays than whites It's all about your upbringing. Did you have an open, tolerant one... or were you told that you have to follow a magic book that says gays are the Devil Blacks played a major role in the Prop 8 decision, due in large part to the role religion plays in Black culture. I definitely think that homophobia is more prevalent in Black communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Oh, definitely. The polls bear that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicopee John Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Those are Zogby, Washington Post/ABC News, and CNN/Opinion Research polls. There's also this one, which you can read in full. Maybe there are racial breakdowns in the raw data, though I don't know why that's important to you. This, after all, is a group that studies religion and politics, not race. Fair enough. I thought they research voting blocks and voting tendencies, views and opinions,etc. Whether it's the Cuban voters in FL, the Black voters for whomever, etc. it would seem natural to me that the ethnic voting blocks would be worth researching. I am sure the politicos are on top of this, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLD Woody Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Blacks played a major role in the Prop 8 decision, due in large part to the role religion plays in Black culture. I definitely think that homophobia is more prevalent in Black communities. So that's upbringing, not skin tone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Steve Posted January 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 [quote name='heckofajobbrownie' timestamp='1327535496' post='269041 So clearly, like Steve was saying, the real homophobes are liberal Democrats who aren't religious. Of course I never said that which is a good reason to take everything you say with a grain of salt. Maybe you're just trying to change the subject since your president ran on a platform of denying equal rights to Americans . WSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 The way some of you guys are about this subject tends to make all of the rest of believe you guys are hiding something in the closet. I will tend to believe that the polls are BS due to Political Correctness and the in your face promotion of this shit all of our media of the whole gay marriage topic. Sorry guys I dont buy whatever your story is that this normal behavior. The first time some fag hits on my grandchildren or they start making out in front of them I am going to kick the fairies ass. I sure dont understand you guys wanting to cornhole each other when God has made all of these beautiful women. I suggest you fags take a look at the cheerleader thread. That is more common than men looking at men in a thong. Just that mental image makes one want to throw up in their mouth. Looking at some of the polls, Those who tend to except homosexuality as being normal also will excepts a Marxist state and the end of capitalism as we know it. After all it is mostly the 19 to 29 year age group who has been taught that this is normal and most of the young adults in that age group have been raised by the state. Most of them have grown up in single parent homes or no parents in the home at all because they have to work all of the time just to make ends meet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Of course I never said that which is a good reason to take everything you say with a grain of salt. Maybe you're just trying to change the subject since your president ran on a platform of denying equal rights to Americans . WSS Well, it kind of is what you keep saying, Steve. Forgive me for poking fun at someone who keeps laughably suggesting that the real problem with racism and homophobia is on the left, and continues to use anecdotal evidence to suggest that this is the case when actual survey evidence suggests it's not. What am I suppose to do with a man who keeps posting about how every racist he knows is a union member and a Democrat, and every person he knows who hates gays is a secular Democrat? Can you point me to one post - ever - where you admit that this is a larger problem on the right, and with religious people, particularly Evangelicals? I bet you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckofajobbrownie Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Try this Steve. Go read what T just wrote. Can you ever imagine that coming from someone on the left? I can't. Of course, he's a crazy person, and doesn't represent the Republican Party. But again, we don't need anecdotal evidence to figure out which group thinks what when we have all sorts of polling evidence that gives us a pretty good picture of the country's views on homosexuality. The part that I really like about the nuts in here is that they can't even conceive of the world that exists outside their bubble. They can't even imagine why someone wouldn't want to kick a gay person's ass for being gay, or not think Obama is a Marxist who hates America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. T Posted January 26, 2012 Report Share Posted January 26, 2012 Try this Steve. Go read what T just wrote. Can you ever imagine that coming from someone on the left? I can't. Of course, he's a crazy person, and doesn't represent the Republican Party. But again, we don't need anecdotal evidence to figure out which group thinks what when we have all sorts of polling evidence that gives us a pretty good picture of the country's views on homosexuality. The part that I really like about the nuts in here is that they can't even conceive of the world that exists outside their bubble. They can't even imagine why someone wouldn't want to kick a gay person's ass for being gay, or not think Obama is a Marxist who hates America. And where are your polls? and tell us what they are saying again. Your polls dont always tell the truth and not everyone lives in LA where it is widely excepted like you. If you were to go out in public and ask 100 random people if they feel like gay marriage is exceptable, you could guess that about 99% of them will say yes so they will not be called a hateful bigot. Heck' You should go join the Jerry Sandusky defense team and help out with his PR campiagn. IMO people like you are part of the problems that we face in society today. Someday you will grow up and act like a man and hold people to a standard of good morals and not with some twisted utopian view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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