Si.com: Matt Flynn Released

[Zombo]

RGIII by any standards is not considered a WCO QB at this point,

 

Yes .. "at this point" ... because he hasn't played in the offense.

 

But he is the ideal prospect for it. The size, the mobility, the arm ... think Steve Young and Bret Favre.

 

Zombo

[The Gipper]

Yes .. "at this point" ... because he hasn't played in the offense.

 

But he is the ideal prospect for it. The size, the mobility, the arm ... think Steve Young and Bret Favre.

 

Zombo

 

On the surface we all see the talent that RGIII has and expect the Browns to go for that talent.

 

However, the Browns and Holmgren and Heckert and Shurmur all think differently. They are all about their "system". And while it is certainly possible that they see RGIII as an upgraded Donovan McNabb who ran that system for years, don't be so certain if they do in fact see Tannehill as a better fit for their system.

In fact, I still think thay may have faith that Colt McCoy could still turn out to be a mini Joe Montana.....the ultimate WCO system QB.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

so he looked "strong" in shorts and no pressure. you know better than that couch...

 

Arm strength is arm strength.

 

There was never a concern whether or not Manning could throw under pads or pressure. The concern was whether or not he could physically throw the ball.

 

It's not like he's a rookie and we've never seen him play in pads before, this is a different situation. There were two issues after this surgery: whether or not Manning's arm would return to normal and whether or not he could take a hit. He's dispelled one concern already, and unfortunately nobody will know about the other until they sign him and suit him up.

 

That would be Retarded.

 

Griffin and Tannehill aren't even on the same page of most scouts. Grif is perfect for our WCO, why drop down for someone with more questions?

 

Zombo

 

I'm still confused why RG3 is the "perfect" fit for our WCO.

 

 

 

RG3 is speedy with deep accuracy. We run next to no deep routes. We hug the bottom of the route tree religiously with timing and spacing routes, things (seemingly the only things) that RG3 stuggled with.

 

The only thing I can see is his speed being an asset, because he'll be running for his life unless we lock up the right side of the line.

[slimdawg]

Arm strength is arm strength.

 

There was never a concern whether or not Manning could throw under pads or pressure. The concern was whether or not he could physically throw the ball.

 

It's not like he's a rookie and we've never seen him play in pads before, this is a different situation. There were two issues after this surgery: whether or not Manning's arm would return to normal and whether or not he could take a hit. He's dispelled one concern already, and unfortunately nobody will know about the other until they sign him and suit him up.

 

 

I'm still confused why RG3 is the "perfect" fit for our WCO.

 

 

 

RG3 is speedy with deep accuracy. We run next to no deep routes. We hug the bottom of the route tree religiously with timing and spacing routes, things (seemingly the only things) that RG3 stuggled with.

 

The only thing I can see is his speed being an asset, because he'll be running for his life unless we lock up the right side of the line.

 

Im not trying to make any case for RG3, but as far as our offense goes, we really didnt see anything too complex and im pretty sure theres reasons for it. Brand new system brand new coaches. You have to learn to crawl before you can walk. I would hope to think that we have an evolution plan for the O. Give them a few years to grow together then i think we'll see more of what this team and system is capable of.

[Zombo]

On the surface we all see the talent that RGIII has and expect the Browns to go for that talent.

 

However, the Browns and Holmgren and Heckert and Shurmur all think differently. They are all about their "system". And while it is certainly possible that they see RGIII as an upgraded Donovan McNabb who ran that system for years, don't be so certain if they do in fact see Tannehill as a better fit for their system.

In fact, I still think thay may have faith that Colt McCoy could still turn out to be a mini Joe Montana.....the ultimate WCO system QB.

 

I'm guessing they know talent when they see it.

 

And Steve Young and Bret Favre were the ultimate WCO system QBs.

 

C'mon ... McCoy's not Montana and he's not Griffin and let's quit putting hope on top of reality.

 

Zombo

[Zombo]

 

 

I'm still confused why RG3 is the "perfect" fit for our WCO.

 

 

 

Big arm. Mobility. Smarts.

 

Ya gotta be mobile. Ya gotta fire the ball right where the receiver needs to get it to make YAC. Ya gotta think quick.

 

Watch videos of the best WCO QBs if it helps: Montana, Young, Favre, McNabb, Rogers.

 

He's mobile, he's smart and he can gun it ... who's your perfect WCO QB?

 

Holmgren made his career by developing Steve Young and Bret Favre in the WCO. Griffin has Young's head with Favre's arm and the mobility of both of them.

 

Coach's don't want arm strength so they can throw 60 yard bombs all day, they want arm strength because they can zip it on a line to a target through a defense. Like Favre did for 20 years.

 

Zombo

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Big arm. Mobility. Smarts.

 

Ya gotta be mobile. Ya gotta fire the ball right where the receiver needs to get it to make YAC. Ya gotta think quick.

 

Watch videos of the best WCO QBs if it helps: Montana, Young, Favre, McNabb, Rogers.

 

He's mobile, he's smart and he can gun it ... who's your perfect WCO QB?

 

Holmgren made his career by developing Steve Young and Bret Favre in the WCO. Griffin has Young's head with Favre's arm and the mobility of both of them.

 

Coach's don't want arm strength so they can throw 60 yard bombs all day, they want arm strength because they can zip it on a line to a target through a defense. Like Favre did for 20 years.

 

Zombo

 

Mobility and smarts are the perfect fit for any system, honestly.

 

Griffin's arm strength wasn't showcased on any short passes. His short game was his weak point all season. His timing was off with his receivers.

[cribbs is the man]

Big arm. Mobility. Smarts.

 

Ya gotta be mobile. Ya gotta fire the ball right where the receiver needs to get it to make YAC. Ya gotta think quick.

 

Watch videos of the best WCO QBs if it helps: Montana, Young, Favre, McNabb, Rogers.

 

He's mobile, he's smart and he can gun it ... who's your perfect WCO QB?

 

Holmgren made his career by developing Steve Young and Bret Favre in the WCO. Griffin has Young's head with Favre's arm and the mobility of both of them.

 

Coach's don't want arm strength so they can throw 60 yard bombs all day, they want arm strength because they can zip it on a line to a target through a defense. Like Favre did for 20 years.

 

Zombo

 

Accuracy (and timing) in short to intermediate routes definitely trumps arm strength in the WCO though, thats for sure. I really havent seen much thats impressed me with RGIII in that regard, but I know those kind of throws arent getting put on the highlight reels.. Thats just what Im most concerned about (and reading defenses, checking down, and working from under center)

[Zombo]

Accuracy (and timing) in short to intermediate routes definitely trumps arm strength in the WCO though, thats for sure. I really havent seen much thats impressed me with RGIII in that regard, but I know those kind of throws arent getting put on the highlight reels.. Thats just what Im most concerned about (and reading defenses, checking down, and working from under center)

 

 

Agreed. Accuracy will be the difference between being the next great WCO QB and just a great athlete getting by in the WCO.

 

I think McNabb could have used better accuracy, he was kinda scattered at times. Could be the difference between good and great.

 

Montana didn't have the big arm but he had pinpoint accuracy.

 

I agree, that remains to be seen with Griffin. He was pretty accurate in the Big 12, but so was Colt McCoy. NFL is a whole different ballgame, you can't be late with throws. Honestly, that is my biggest problem with McCoy, I thought he'd be more accurate ... he left those receivers hanging and waiting last year, I don't care how poor/inexperienced our receivers were, the QB was simply not making the throws last year.

 

Zombo

[The Gipper]

I'm guessing they know talent when they see it.

 

And Steve Young and Bret Favre were the ultimate WCO system QBs.

 

C'mon ... McCoy's not Montana and he's not Griffin and let's quit putting hope on top of reality.

 

Zombo

 

Well, that is your thinking....and maybe a lot of people's thinking....but we don't know positively for certain what H&H&S are thinking.

Maybe they have a different opinion about what constitutes a WCO QB....and it is their opinion that counts.

And let's not go Lady Gaga over RGIII. He looks good certainly.

But then so did Ryan Leaf, Joey Harrington, Jamarcus Russell, Rick Mirer etc. all drafted as high as RG is expected to be.

(By the way, there are some hints in their to some of my trivia questions)

[Zombo]

Well, that is your thinking....and maybe a lot of people's thinking....but we don't know positively for certain what H&H&S are thinking.

Maybe they have a different opinion about what constitutes a WCO QB....and it is their opinion that counts.

And let's not go Lady Gaga over RGIII. He looks good certainly.

But then so did Ryan Leaf, Joey Harrington, Jamarcus Russell, Rick Mirer etc. all drafted as high as RG is expected to be.

(By the way, there are some hints in their to some of my trivia questions)

 

I understand he could bust.

 

But if you have a chance for a franchise QB and you don't have one, you need to go for it.

 

If Holmgren thinks Colt McFrye is a franchise QB, he is one of the few.

 

Zombo

[Browns57]

I understand he could bust.

 

But if you have a chance for a franchise QB and you don't have one, you need to go for it.

 

If Holmgren thinks Colt McFrye is a franchise QB, he is one of the few.

 

Zombo

 

I really don't think anybody is suggesting Colt is the answer. I certainly wouldn't, but I do see a couple of potential problems with our system and RGIII. How many times was Colt in the shotgun last year? Maybe 5 times? How often was RGIII taking snaps from center? Is RGIII more effective in a system that does not force teams to go 7 in the box? Wouldn't think so. I would argue against everybody most likely that Blackmon IS the right pick for the Browns and their style of offense, and a better pick than RG3 since we get to keep other picks to fill other holes we need to address.

 

If Miami and the Skins pick up a QB. Grossman and probably Henne become available. Kolb may end up being available depending on what Arizona does, who else. Am I saying any of those guys are the franchise QB you want. NO. But we can pick up another solid QB and dump Wallace, fill a hole at LB, WR, Other CB, DE, and get sa solid RG/T is we handle the draft correctly.

 

If we only need to score 13-17 a game to win and we fill those holes how do our QB's look now? Much Better? And if Childress helps as OC do we look better too?

 

Does getting RG3 and losing out on filling most of these other positions with IMPACT players make us better than if we go the other direction?

 

Maybe we trade down from 21 to the end of the first and pick up a first next year and a second this year, and then we make a play next year for that fine QB at USC?

 

There are a lot of ways to go, but I for one don't want RG3 if he comes at the price we think. If the price comes down significantly then sure go for it.

[The Gipper]

I understand he could bust.

 

But if you have a chance for a franchise QB and you don't have one, you need to go for it.

 

If Holmgren thinks Colt McFrye is a franchise QB, he is one of the few.

 

Zombo

 

Holmgren may not think Colt is a franchise QB....yet, he may also not think that RGIII is either. That is my point.

Certain indicators say that our boys may think that Tannehill is preferable to RGIII.

[MLD Woody]

If we take Richardson at 4 and then trade up for Tannehill in the middle of the first I'll be pretty pissed

[Mark O]

Adrian Peterson is the only RB taking high in the first round in the last 10 years that is actually worth his draft pick. There is no way I take a RB high in round 1 when it certainly seems that you can find a RB later in the draft.

[Zombo]

I really don't think anybody is suggesting Colt is the answer. I certainly wouldn't, but I do see a couple of potential problems with our system and RGIII. How many times was Colt in the shotgun last year? Maybe 5 times? How often was RGIII taking snaps from center? Is RGIII more effective in a system that does not force teams to go 7 in the box? Wouldn't think so. I would argue against everybody most likely that Blackmon IS the right pick for the Browns and their style of offense, and a better pick than RG3 since we get to keep other picks to fill other holes we need to address.

 

If Miami and the Skins pick up a QB. Grossman and probably Henne become available. Kolb may end up being available depending on what Arizona does, who else. Am I saying any of those guys are the franchise QB you want. NO. But we can pick up another solid QB and dump Wallace, fill a hole at LB, WR, Other CB, DE, and get sa solid RG/T is we handle the draft correctly.

 

If we only need to score 13-17 a game to win and we fill those holes how do our QB's look now? Much Better? And if Childress helps as OC do we look better too?

 

Does getting RG3 and losing out on filling most of these other positions with IMPACT players make us better than if we go the other direction?

 

Maybe we trade down from 21 to the end of the first and pick up a first next year and a second this year, and then we make a play next year for that fine QB at USC?

 

There are a lot of ways to go, but I for one don't want RG3 if he comes at the price we think. If the price comes down significantly then sure go for it.

 

McCoy, Henne, Grossman, Kolb ... Please!

 

I can't be convinced that mediocre quarterbacking plus a couple extra draft picks is a better route than drafting a potential franchise QB with top-of-the-line physical skills and seemingly a good head on his shoulders as well.

 

Ya, we can win a lot of 17-13 games and go 9-7 and hope to make the playoffs, and that looks a lot better than we have now and a lot safer than going all in ... but you play to win championships and the teams winning championships aren't doing it with mediocre quarterbacking.

 

Zombo

[Zombo]

Certain indicators say that our boys may think that Tannehill is preferable to RGIII.

 

Really? You are saying that there are indicators that our front office is actually Retarded? Because they'd have to be.

 

Fuck Tannehill. If we don't have the balls to go for Grif then get Colt some weapons and give him another year, don't spend a 1st round pick on this dude, that's just more ill-placed wishing and hoping as opposed to making a ballsy move for greatness.

 

Zombo

[WebsterSlaughter]

No one in their right mind has Tannehill rated higher than RG3. Tannehill was behind Landry Jones and Barkley. Tannehill is a classic project QB. He is benefiting from the fact that there are only 2 good QB prospects this year. If you want to compare a guy to Jamarcus Russell its Tannehill. He's a one year wonder with only 19 career starts. I like guys who have a history of solid play. He misses open guys all the time. terrible accuracy. Go watch his film and see him repeatedly fail to hit wide open recievers in stride.

[BadNewsBrowns]

But..but..but... he's a wco quarterback

[choco]

Really? You are saying that there are indicators that our front office is actually Retarded? Because they'd have to be.

lol....ive long believed our FO is, yes.

 

if the walrus stays true to his past, he'll be looking for a project. he has never made a high round splash for a QB...he trades for them, but doesn't draft them. heckert, well...he's already had rank pulled against him for our current scout team leader, so its hard to project who'll get the final pick.

[The Gipper]

Really? You are saying that there are indicators that our front office is actually Retarded? Because they'd have to be.

 

I guess, if you put it that way, yes, there are indicators that our front office is, indeed, Retarded. They also seem to be enamored with Flynn

 

Fuck Tannehill. If we don't have the balls to go for Grif then get Colt some weapons and give him another year, don't spend a 1st round pick on this dude, that's just more ill-placed wishing and hoping as opposed to making a ballsy move for greatness.

 

OK, let's go for Grif....by standing pat. Miami seems like the current best fit for Manning. Washington can get Flynn. We can get RGIII.

Zombo

[WebsterSlaughter]

lol....ive long believed our FO is, yes.

 

if the walrus stays true to his past, he'll be looking for a project. he has never made a high round splash for a QB...he trades for them, but doesn't draft them. heckert, well...he's already had rank pulled against him for our current scout team leader, so its hard to project who'll get the final pick.

 

Considering that the Walrus will be gone soon (either fired or retired), I hope he will let Heckert call the shot this time.

[The Gipper]

lol....ive long believed our FO is, yes.

 

if the walrus stays true to his past, he'll be looking for a project. he has never made a high round splash for a QB...he trades for them, but doesn't draft them. heckert, well...he's already had rank pulled against him for our current scout team leader, so its hard to project who'll get the final pick.

 

Good point. Holmgren got Favre by trade, he got Hasselback by trade. He may see Flynn as the reincarnation of those two guys.

[Browns57]

Good point. Holmgren got Favre by trade, he got Hasselback by trade. He may see Flynn as the reincarnation of those two guys.

 

Heckert said today that they have no plans to pursue Flynn. And why would they? There is not enough to say he can perform well. I believe McCoy will be our qb this season unless we get a good deal for moving up for RG3.

 

And don't dismiss the fact that maybe they really believe if we fill holes and add talent that McCoy could be the next Schuab or Matt Cassel. Somebody who can compete and win games. And if we trade back from 4 or 22 we could be in good shape to grab a great QB next year if McCoy doesn't pan out. But I still say dump Wallace and bring in somebody will Grossmann who can win a few for you in case McCoy goes down again.

[Kerrigan91]

But I still say dump Wallace and bring in somebody will Grossmann who can win a few for you in case McCoy goes down again.

 

Trust me, Grossman isn't that guy for you. You're better off with McCoy than Rex "Fuck it I'm going deep" Grossman.

[choco]

Heckert said today that they have no plans to pursue Flynn.

actually, he didn't. thats the great thing about the silly season...it depends who you ask.

 

Schudel

 

doerschuk

 

heckert said "no" to "going crazy in FA".....he did not say we will not be persuing flynn, as he did with manning. you heard that because you think flynn (backup QB) = big name FA (for some reason).

 

this kind of shit is the same exact thing the "news media" and "BSPN" do when they make a big story out of little blurbs, like the entire hillis saga, for example. people tend to hear what they want rather than hear what is said

 

the idiots on the fan in pittsburgh have been going apeshit due to sidney crosby saying "we'll get to sunday and see how i feel then" as "i will be returning to the lineup on sunday". its fucking nauseating....

[Indeterminate Proof]

Trust me, Grossman isn't that guy for you. You're better off with McCoy than Rex "Fuck it I'm going deep" Grossman.

 

Rex Grossman with Washington:

 

16 starts

4035 yards

23 TDs

24 INTs

57.4 CMP%

6.8 YPA

237.4 YPG

74.4 QBR

3 game winning drives

2 4QC

6-10 as starter (.375%)

 

Colt McCoy with Cleveland:

21 starts

4309 yards

20 TDs

20 INTs

58.4 CMP%

6.3 YPA

205.2 YPA

74.5 YPA

3 GWD

1 4QC

6-15 as starter (.286%)

 

So yeah, maybe the guy's right - if anything Grossman is an upgrade.

[Kerrigan91]

Rex Grossman with Washington:

 

16 starts

4035 yards

23 TDs

24 INTs

57.4 CMP%

6.8 YPA

237.4 YPG

74.4 QBR

3 game winning drives

2 4QC

6-10 as starter (.375%)

 

Colt McCoy with Cleveland:

21 starts

4309 yards

20 TDs

20 INTs

58.4 CMP%

6.3 YPA

205.2 YPA

74.5 YPA

3 GWD

1 4QC

6-15 as starter (.286%)

 

So yeah, maybe the guy's right - if anything Grossman is an upgrade.

 

Because stats always tell the whole story. Rex has had a better defense than Colt and a barely better record. Over his career he has more interceptions than touchdowns, let alone fumbles lost. Rex thinks he's a QB in the mold of Favre, but he doesn't have the arm strength or accuracy. McCoy is a better QB than Grossman, and it's not even really that close.

[Represent]

Rg3 to Washington now, and Manning top dest is Miami supposedly.... This deal could be coming soon. But im good with the Real Deal starting next year.

[Taco918]

Rg3 to Washington now, and Manning top dest is Miami supposedly.... This deal could be coming soon. But im good with the Real Deal starting next year.

 

Who's the real deal? McCoy? Flynn?