Again Over Reaction!

[WRREBEL]

This board is great to vent but the over reactions by everyone is nuts..

 

People saying we won't win another game this year?? We may not but we should beat the Chiefs, Raiders and yes the Steelers once!

 

I have said it before but i really beleive we are on the cusp. The biggest problem with our team is we are yet to play a full game. I blame this some on depth but most of all on coaches. We don't make good in game adjustments and we get conservative at times. We have too many penalties.

 

We dominated that first half against Dallas. If we had Haden we probably win the game. Or if we come out with a different game plan or play calling in the 3 qt we win the game.

 

Weeden- Guys give him the rest of the season. Weeden has played well at times. He needs to not be held back by the coaches. Let him play and react to what he see. Playing afraid to turn the ball over. A new coach and new GM will come in next year and will evaluate him not on him being their pick but how he has played. My gut is next year Weeden and Colt will compete for the starting job in training camp. I don't think any of the players come out of school are any good.

 

I love what i have seen from Trent Richardson. He is a beast and the real deal. Greg little seems very focused and him and Josh gordon give out WRs lots of promise. Our Oline and it's pass blocking has been the best I have seen since we have been back in the league.

 

Our defensive line has played very well at times. DB's we just lack the depth. Buster Skrine will be just fine. He is young and he will get better.

 

 

Hang in there!

[Zombo]

This board is great to vent but the over reactions by everyone is nuts..

 

People saying we won't win another game this year?? We may not but we should beat the Chiefs, Raiders and yes the Steelers once!

 

I have said it before but i really beleive we are on the cusp. The biggest problem with our team is we are yet to play a full game. I blame this some on depth but most of all on coaches. We don't make good in game adjustments and we get conservative at times. We have too many penalties.

 

We dominated that first half against Dallas. If we had Haden we probably win the game. Or if we come out with a different game plan or play calling in the 3 qt we win the game.

 

Weeden- Guys give him the rest of the season. Weeden has played well at times. He needs to not be held back by the coaches. Let him play and react to what he see. Playing afraid to turn the ball over. A new coach and new GM will come in next year and will evaluate him not on him being their pick but how he has played. My gut is next year Weeden and Colt will compete for the starting job in training camp. I don't think any of the players come out of school are any good.

 

I love what i have seen from Trent Richardson. He is a beast and the real deal. Greg little seems very focused and him and Josh gordon give out WRs lots of promise. Our Oline and it's pass blocking has been the best I have seen since we have been back in the league.

 

Our defensive line has played very well at times. DB's we just lack the depth. Buster Skrine will be just fine. He is young and he will get better.

 

 

Hang in there!

 

The way Shurmur coaches on gameday is very irritating. He takes the soul out of the team. He takes the soul of the fans.

 

Weeden is overcoached. The offense is too conservative, very few throws down field, very little play action until the fourth quarter after we had blown the lead.

 

The defense was too conservative in the fourth quarter too, with the cornerbacks lining ten yards off the receivers every play. We were giving them whatever they wanted every play. How hard is to march down the field six yards at a time? Not very.

 

The talent is better and we know it. The new owner is going to make changes, and we know it. But watching Shurmur turn wins into losses is disheartening to say the least.

 

We won the battle in the trenches. Our offensive line and defensive line played well. I loves the pressure with Rubin and Taylor back in the middle. But we never went for the jugular. We just sat back, sat back, sat back.

 

Yes, there were terrible calls against us. Yes the team played well at times. But Pat Shurmer does not exude confidence in the players, the fans, the officials ... anybody.

 

He is a schmoe.

 

Zombo

[BrownsKidd]

Agreed with Zombo. I don't think the issue is with Weeden, or talent, or our WR's. It's coaching. The team lost because we weren't taking chances down field. All you have to do is watch other NFL teams and see how poorly the team is being coached. QB throw to WR's who aren't wide open because they let their WR's go up and make plays. Weeden threw 2 of those types of passes yesterday. One TD and one that Little made a great catch of. Where was the deep throws to Gordon. We didn't stretch the D, so they loaded up on Richardson and the run game (which still was pretty good).

 

That toss in the corner first was a horrible call, and yes, Weeden gave the guy no chance to catch the ball. But how many times has Weeds actually tried to make that pass this year? That is the first that I can remember. That should been an outside the tackles run or some type of screen. However the play calling was pathetic. What were they thinking trying to launch Richardson 2.5 yards over the Oline and through a charging Defense.. Really?

 

That challenge in teh first half was a horrible challenge. We blew a TO for that? Then at the end of the 1st half we didn't have time outs left to try and score at least 3 more points when we were getting the ball first in the 2nd. I don't know who is telling Shurmur to throw the red challenge flag, but they should fired or at least castrated.

 

I don't know.... but there is a comedy of errors going on and it's not the players IMO.

[Zombo]

 

That challenge in the first half was a horrible challenge.

 

 

He even challenges like a schmoe: a little underhanded-girlie throw with no confidence.

 

This is how you throw a challenge flag:

 

 

Shurmur rolled it out like he was playing bocce ball at the Senior Center.

 

Zombo

[Mark O]

He even challenges like a schmoe: a little underhanded-girlie throw with no confidence.

 

This is how you throw a challenge flag:

 

 

Shurmur rolled it out like he was playing bocce ball at the Senior Center.

 

Zombo

 

I said that during the game as well. He throws it like a pussy.

 

He coaches like one too..

[The Gipper]

The way Shurmur coaches on gameday is very irritating. He takes the soul out of the team. He takes the soul of the fans.

 

Weeden is overcoached. The offense is too conservative, very few throws down field, very little play action until the fourth quarter after we had blown the lead.

 

The defense was too conservative in the fourth quarter too, with the cornerbacks lining ten yards off the receivers every play. We were giving them whatever they wanted every play. How hard is to march down the field six yards at a time? Not very.

 

The talent is better and we know it. The new owner is going to make changes, and we know it. But watching Shurmur turn wins into losses is disheartening to say the least.

 

We won the battle in the trenches. Our offensive line and defensive line played well. I loves the pressure with Rubin and Taylor back in the middle. But we never went for the jugular. We just sat back, sat back, sat back.

 

Yes, there were terrible calls against us. Yes the team played well at times. But Pat Shurmer does not exude confidence in the players, the fans, the officials ... anybody.

 

He is a schmoe.

 

Zombo

 

Well said. We have Casper Weenie Milktoast for a HC. To quote Joni Mitchell, he leeches the light out of a room.

He has no Kohones, at all.

[BaconHound]

I love when the voice of reason for Browns fans always makes excuses for sub par play but has no issue blaming coaches and GMs. Not that I think that Shurmur is the next Vince Lombardi or Heckert is the next Ozzie Newsome but how about practicing what you preach and give the other guys a bit of time to see what happens. Heres what I know, Weeden completes 55 percent of his passes and has more picks than TDs. The WRs are raw and unreliable as is the defensive backfield. The team has dealt with bad injuries and poor decisions (Haden) which is difficult since they lack depth. It's not Shurmur telling to hit Brent in the chest with the ball. Shurmur isn't holding this team back right now, the franchise is in a bad place and has been since 99. I hate losing as much as the next fan and I'm not the biggest Weeden fan but he isn't the reason we have 2 wins and 8 losses either it's a organizational issue.

[mdmusch]

I'm just upset because I really think if the Browns pulled this out (which it's obvious they outplayed the Cowboys, penalties aside) it would've meant so much to this young team... The Cowboys aren't very good, but the media seems to believe they are. If the Browns went into Dallas and came from behind to win, it would have been huge for developing confidence. Instead we see it slip away at the last second. I'm happy with the progress because the Browns have been in a position to win or tie in at least four losses (Ravens part one, Indy, Dallas, Philly). With a few pieces and a quality play caller this team could go from what is a likely 4-12 season this year to 8-8 or 9-7 next year.

 

Open the checkbook Haslam and force the GM to get two quality players in positions of need (LG, CB, DE, FS, OLB) by paying above market value. Couple that with another solid draft to fill the remaining needs and the Browns will be in the playoff hunt.

[roach]

 

Weeden is overcoached. The offense is too conservative, very few throws down field, very little play action until the fourth quarter after we had blown the lead.

 

Zombo

 

??? Overcoached? LOL. I guess our DB's are "overcoached" too. I guess Wali Rainer was "overcoached." I guess our shitty defenses since 1999 have been "overcoached." In fact, our entire franchise has been overcoached, starting with Chris Palmer right up to Shurmer.

 

Your love affair with the red headed wonderboy is getting a bit embarrassing. You love his rifle arm. I'll take a noodle arm Brian Sipe over a rifle arm Paul McDonald any day. Weeden was an act of desperation by Holmgren/Heckert- just like our entire team has seemed to be since- whenever.

 

Guess what. If Pontbriand wasn't overcoached last year, we would have been 6-10 (without Trent Richardson and Gordon and Schwartz).

[The Gipper]

I love when the voice of reason for Browns fans always makes excuses for sub par play but has no issue blaming coaches and GMs. Not that I think that Shurmur is the next Vince Lombardi or Heckert is the next Ozzie Newsome but how about practicing what you preach and give the other guys a bit of time to see what happens. Heres what I know, Weeden completes 55 percent of his passes and has more picks than TDs. The WRs are raw and unreliable as is the defensive backfield. The team has dealt with bad injuries and poor decisions (Haden) which is difficult since they lack depth. It's not Shurmur telling to hit Brent in the chest with the ball. Shurmur isn't holding this team back right now, the franchise is in a bad place and has been since 99. I hate losing as much as the next fan and I'm not the biggest Weeden fan but he isn't the reason we have 2 wins and 8 losses either it's a organizational issue.

 

 

I agree that it is, or has been an organizationl issue. I doubt that you will find anyone defending the accomplishments of Randy Lerner or Mike Holmgren....but, FYI, Pat Shurmur, the HC of this team IS part of the organization. He is the #3 man on this team in its heirarchy. (I view the GM..Heckert and the HC...Shurmur on equal par).

A lot of the issues that you say are problems with this team to my view are the direct result of the HC. They lack discipline...as evidenced by the penalties that lost them some games. They lack "killer instinct"...as evidenced by all the close losses and failures to get things done in crunch time. They lack creativity....as evidenced by all the failures on thing like 3rd and 1.

The one thing I think they do have is young talent, so, no, I disagree....I think Shurmur IS holding this team back...because the leadership of such a young team must come from its coaching staff, particularly the HC. And to my view Shurmur doesn't have a clue on how to project any kind of confidence or leadership.

In my view this team is playing below the level of the sum total of the talent on the field because the man in charge doesn't know how to take charge and lead.

As for Weeden...I think he is not performing up to par because a rookie QB needs adequate coaching to get him to display his natural talent. He ain't getting the coaching.

[DanInNYC]

I really like this team. They are young and want to win badly. To my knowledge, there are no premaddonas like Braylon Edwards or Kellen Winslow. The fact of the matter is we are short on talent but headed in the right direction. A few more players and some more experience for the young guys and we will be in business. Every week these kids have come out and pushed some high quality teams to their limit. This season (realistically) was never about making the playoffs and fans need to wrap their heads around that. I am ok with a couple of years of development en route to long term competitiveness. Fans need to come down off of the ledge and use a little perspective with this team. I remember watching the offense last year and just know we were going to lose. There was no we should have won that game. We couldn't even score a TD in almost half of the games (I think we averaged 13 points per game). It was our defense keeping us in the game until the 4th quarter until finally they were exhausted (after the offense went 3 and out repeatedly) and started giving up points.

[Zombo]

??? Overcoached? LOL. I guess our DB's are "overcoached" too. I guess Wali Rainer was "overcoached." I guess our shitty defenses since 1999 have been "overcoached." In fact, our entire franchise has been overcoached, starting with Chris Palmer right up to Shurmer.

 

Your love affair with the red headed wonderboy is getting a bit embarrassing. You love his rifle arm. I'll take a noodle arm Brian Sipe over a rifle arm Paul McDonald any day. Weeden was an act of desperation by Holmgren/Heckert- just like our entire team has seemed to be since- whenever.

 

Guess what. If Pontbriand wasn't overcoached last year, we would have been 6-10 (without Trent Richardson and Gordon and Schwartz).

 

He is overcoached in that he seems too afraid to make a mistake, or deviate from a plan or play when what happens on the field screams for it. Maybe he's just dumb. But it seems earlier in the year he could ad lib a little more if the play called for it. I think Shurmur/Childress/Cromwell/Whipple should let him freelance a little bit and use the whole field, instead of blindly doing what they want him to do ... If they want to be in Cleveland next year. They can jam the gameplan and scheme in his head all they want, but it's not going to matter next year when they are gone and he is here. You are 2-8, take the reigns off and take some chances. Just because he's a rookie doesn't mean he can't make plays. You can tell from some of the post game non-comments that he is frustrated. I think the rest of the offensive players are frustrated too. Some times the defensive has the play sniffed out before the snap and he goes through with it instead of audibling, because I don't think he's allowed to audible. Again, I could be wrong, maybe he's just dumb. But I am really starting to look forward to seeing Weeden without Shurmur.

 

I don't remember Paul McDonald having a rifle arm. I remember Modell having an unhealthy attraction for him though.

 

Zombo

[WRREBEL]

Yeah i am reading some rumors that the new regime will probably trade for or draft another QB.

[BaconHound]

I agree that it is, or has been an organizationl issue. I doubt that you will find anyone defending the accomplishments of Randy Lerner or Mike Holmgren....but, FYI, Pat Shurmur, the HC of this team IS part of the organization. He is the #3 man on this team in its heirarchy. (I view the GM..Heckert and the HC...Shurmur on equal par).

A lot of the issues that you say are problems with this team to my view are the direct result of the HC. They lack discipline...as evidenced by the penalties that lost them some games. They lack "killer instinct"...as evidenced by all the close losses and failures to get things done in crunch time. They lack creativity....as evidenced by all the failures on thing like 3rd and 1.

The one thing I think they do have is young talent, so, no, I disagree....I think Shurmur IS holding this team back...because the leadership of such a young team must come from its coaching staff, particularly the HC. And to my view Shurmur doesn't have a clue on how to project any kind of confidence or leadership.

In my view this team is playing below the level of the sum total of the talent on the field because the man in charge doesn't know how to take charge and lead.

As for Weeden...I think he is not performing up to par because a rookie QB needs adequate coaching to get him to display his natural talent. He ain't getting the coaching.

 

Where our essential disagreement lies is simple, you think this team is good but lacks direction and I think there are a handful of guys that would play on good teams so right now the direction doesn't matter.

[The Gipper]

Where our essential disagreement lies is simple, you think this team is good but lacks direction and I think there are a handful of guys that would play on good teams so right now the direction doesn't matter.

 

 

I think there are weak spots, yes. And I think one of those weak spots is purely youth and inexperience.

Combine a poor organization with youth and inexperience and a few more traditional "weak spots" i.e. poor talent at certain positions, and yes, you don't have a winning combination.

The inexperience will take care of itself. A decent draft and may a FA or two will help with the weak talent spots....and the organization....well, that makeover is about half way accomplished.

[Kosarfan]

Agree with all WRREBEL points out from first post except that Weeden should finish out.

While so many feel Weeden has the pressure not to make a mistake from Surmur's 'let's be careful out there' coaching style, keep in mind all the time he had over and over in the pocket on Sunday, looking left, right and making nothing or a lousy throw of the play. Agreed, Shurmur calls shit plays and Weeden's hands, at times, are tied to bullshit calls, but when the play has fallen apart, he cannot make a quick decision / evaluation and turn nothing into something. I hate to state this but one guy who is great at that, in fact lives there, is Toothlessburger. That schmuck can be running lost, falling down, tripping over his own clumsy ass feet and still turns a play from shit. Weeden has had several opportunities to 'play his own game' when the play fell apart and become the leader this team needs. Instead he walks off the field each time after having not made that sight for the open guy, or playmaker, with his head down.

 

At this stage, let Colt try it. Last season, they wouldn't let Colt throw past 10 yards. They've let Weeden do it this year, let's see for real if Colt has no arm at all and if not, drop him next season as well for a better backup. At this point let's see what's for real for 2013 - 14, because we DO in fact have allot of potential. The WR's have stepped up, when does Weeden ? Colt has to be begging for a chance by now. Let him make or break. The Dallas game was a misguided win by a lessor team. They don't stand a chance in the playoffs except for the fact that the officials will be trying their best to throw the game toward Dallas.

[WRREBEL]

Agree with all WRREBEL points out from first post except that Weeden should finish out.

While so many feel Weeden has the pressure not to make a mistake from Surmur's 'let's be careful out there' coaching style, keep in mind all the time he had over and over in the pocket on Sunday, looking left, right and making nothing or a lousy throw of the play. Agreed, Shurmur calls shit plays and Weeden's hands, at times, are tied to bullshit calls, but when the play has fallen apart, he cannot make a quick decision / evaluation and turn nothing into something. I hate to state this but one guy who is great at that, in fact lives there, is Toothlessburger. That schmuck can be running lost, falling down, tripping over his own clumsy ass feet and still turns a play from shit. Weeden has had several opportunities to 'play his own game' when the play fell apart and become the leader this team needs. Instead he walks off the field each time after having not made that sight for the open guy, or playmaker, with his head down.

 

At this stage, let Colt try it. Last season, they wouldn't let Colt throw past 10 yards. They've let Weeden do it this year, let's see for real if Colt has no arm at all and if not, drop him next season as well for a better backup. At this point let's see what's for real for 2013 - 14, because we DO in fact have allot of potential. The WR's have stepped up, when does Weeden ? Colt has to be begging for a chance by now. Let him make or break. The Dallas game was a misguided win by a lessor team. They don't stand a chance in the playoffs except for the fact that the officials will be trying their best to throw the game toward Dallas.

 

 

My point is the franchise made the mistake in the first place not having an honest open QB competition in training camp. They handed Weeden the job.. If Colt had started this year i think we would have been at least a 500 team.

 

The reason why i say let weeden finish the season so there isn't any doubt that he is or isnt the guy. Right now i think he is looking towards that he isn't going to be the guy to lead us..

[BaconHound]

I think there are weak spots, yes. And I think one of those weak spots is purely youth and inexperience.

Combine a poor organization with youth and inexperience and a few more traditional "weak spots" i.e. poor talent at certain positions, and yes, you don't have a winning combination.

The inexperience will take care of itself. A decent draft and may a FA or two will help with the weak talent spots....and the organization....well, that makeover is about half way accomplished.

On offense Trent, Thomas possibly Mack are the only guys that would start on playoff teams right now. On defense Haden (who hasn't played much for the Browns), Jackson, Taylor and maybe Rucker. So for a good team, playoff capable, there are a lot of holes