Reducing Gun Violence

[Legacy Fan]

Also, the NRA is starting to look like Obama's best ally here. They're really turning people off. First it was that LaPierre speech, and now this ad, which, as it turns out, is totally false. Obama's kids' school does not have armed guards, and never has.

Wasn't LaPierre mocked for suggesting guards at schools? (Yes)

 

Now it's an executive order for which Obama has been praised. (Yes.)

 

And according to a source from Sidwell friends school, their guards don't carry guns but they are authorized to do so if necessary.

[heckofajobbrownie]

As I said before, I don't have a problem with the idea of school boards choosing to place armed guards in their schools. I don't deny the reality of armed defense, or the possibility that it could help. And some schools already do this. (Sidwell Friends is not one of them, as you note.) The problem with the NRA's proposal is that it puts armed guards in every school in America, and puts guns in every school in America. You're talking about somewhere between 70,000 and 100,000 new government employees in schools with guns.

 

That's not what the president is proposing.

[Legacy Fan]

Yeah, his proposal (well at least the EO) is pretty open ended. I think #'s 12 & 18 cover this.

 

I'm definitely interested in the gameplan. Some of it I already disagree with but as I stated before I think these EO's really seem to address the problems.

[FairHooker11]

.

 

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16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.

 

17. Release a letter to health-care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law-enforcement authorities.

 

 

 

[heckofajobbrownie]

Yeah, his proposal (well at least the EO) is pretty open ended. I think #'s 12 & 18 cover this.

 

I'm definitely interested in the gameplan. Some of it I already disagree with but as I stated before I think these EO's really seem to address the problems.

 

I'm a bit more pessimistic than you. Like many things, it will depend on the implementation. If they can figure out a real and comprehensive system of background checks I'd be a little more optimistic, but getting that information, especially medical and mental health information, into systems that actually prevent people from buying/acquiring guns seems to be a long shot.

[calfoxwc]

Seriously? You and Shep were so frightened at the evil specter of the Patriot Act destroying your lives......

 

and now you have no qualms about Obamaocare and his emphasis on gun control with using children

 

as an emotional lever on a contraversial issue. and moochelle obsmao getting kids in trouble for their lunches

 

(oh, wait, that's over - wasn't a vote getter, so ...)....

 

Nevermind. You're a sold out left mercenary of sorts, imho. That's just my best guess.

[Westside Steve]

No, it's not. It's just the only political opinion you have. It's your self-image. That doesn't make it true.

 

Everyone in here is talking about the limits of what these changes can accomplish. It's in every post. We're talking about reducing problems at the margins. There are no starry-eyed idealists in here. But that gets in the way of you pretending like you're the only realist in the world, so you pretend you never read it. Which makes you sound like an imbecile.

 

So just fuck off. You're an asshole pretending to be a jolly old fellow.

 

Poor little angry boy, remember that the two aren't mutually exclusive.

I'm capable of being an asshole and a jolly old fellow.

Just like you are capable of being an asshole and, well, kind of a prick.

 

And while we are analyzing each other you come off something like a door to door evangelistt, con artist or car salesman who becomes angrier and angrier when the mark doesn't buy.

 

Frankly there's nothing really outrageous about any of these proposals.

But window dressing and bureaucracy won't make a difference to anyone who cares.

 

When people such as yourself who are prone to exaggerating every word the president says admit that the results will be marginal at best, you should realize the fact that this has been nothing more than a campaign event.

 

Not only that but you've taken your eye of the ball from your original post, and that is it there have been hundreds of shootings sense the school massacre.

And while I understand that it's easier to focus on that for theatrical reasons you are missing the boat on the widespread problem.

 

WSS

[calfoxwc]

Just like you are capable of being an asshole and, well, kind of a prick. Steve

*****************************************

 

I missed it - when was Heckbunker NOT an asshole and a prick?

 

Heck is the butt of this board. If just once, he could have an honest conversation with anybody

 

on this board, I would retract that first sentence......

[heckofajobbrownie]

Yeah, you guys are right. This thread sucked, and started no purposeful discussion.

 

Please return to more enlightening stuff like "Obamao's Past - What Background Check?", "Who Is Obamao? The Story In Pictures: Dangerous Marxist Pig Syndrome", and "Homosexual Bible Is A Fraud: all of you queers will burn in hell."

[The Cysko Kid]

Yeah, you guys are right. This thread sucked, and started no purposeful discussion.

 

Please return to more enlightening stuff like "Obamao's Past - What Background Check?", "Who Is Obamao? The Story In Pictures: Dangerous Marxist Pig Syndrome", and "Homosexual Bible Is A Fraud: all of you queers will burn in hell."

 

 

Damn right, queer. Jesus is the way and the life motherfuck. Obamao and all his queer Marxist commies can't take our shootin' irons.

[MLD Woody]

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.

 

 

 

You realize you just posted this pic in another thread right?

 

 

 

Do you see the irony?

[FairHooker11]

You realize you just posted this pic in another thread right? yes

 

 

 

Do you see the irony? uuhmmm....no

 

 

but how about this?

[calfoxwc]

is woodpecker on the right or the left?

 

Oh yeah, the left.

[MLD Woody]

is woodpecker on the right or the left?

 

Oh yeah, the left.

 

We took that test remember?

 

I'm pretty center yo

 

I just see some things as common sense, like a lot of my generation, that you think are evil or something. Its not you its your upbringing

[Legacy Fan]

Not looking good for the home team:

 

http://chicagoist.com/2013/01/08/chicagos_2013_murder_rate_outpacing.php

 

Chicago: home of the nation's strictest gun laws - approaching a near total gun ban(8 murders in 1st 6 days of 2013). Other sites reporting 22 in 11 days.

 

 

Lets hope Obama is receiving tons of advice for his proposals and not "going with his gut."

[DieHardBrownsFan]

We took that test remember?

 

I'm pretty center yo

 

I just see some things as common sense, like a lot of my generation, that you think are evil or something. Its not you its your upbringing

 

LOL, MLD, I hate to clue you but if you think "your" generation all thinks the same, hang on for a decade or two.

[MLD Woody]

LOL, MLD, I hate to clue you but if you think "your" generation all thinks the same, hang on for a decade or two.

 

I don't think they ALL think the same

 

I think there are a lot of trends though. Religion is less important, less of a problem with gay marriage, etc. Its just social change. I'm sure you could go back each generation and find trends like that.

[The Cysko Kid]

I don't think they ALL think the same

 

I think there are a lot of trends though. Religion is less important, less of a problem with gay marriage, etc. Its just social change. I'm sure you could go back each generation and find trends like that.

 

It's hard to argue that the people of your generation are the very trendiest of all. From duck face to planking to tebowing and all that, youse guys love a trend.

[MLD Woody]

It's hard to argue that the people of your generation are the very trendiest of all. From duck face to planking to tebowing and all that, youse guys love a trend.

 

Yes and I'm sure all of your generations are perfect in every way and have never done annything dumb looking back (I'm sure have no internet helped).

 

I'm not saying we are better (though in some ways I'd expect every generation to be "better" than the last), I am saying there are views, generally conservative, that aren't as widely held among my generation and won't ever be. The large part of this generation isn't going to just wake up one day and say "Hey, I think I should go to church and believe in some religion" or "I don't think gays should be married now"

 

Its been said that as people get older, on average, they become more conservative. I am thinking that this may be true for some issues, but a lot of the social issues that we take a stand on due to our belief system aren't actually changing, just the center point is. If each subsequent generation is more liberal in some regard, than the views of that past generation will seem conservative, even though they were looked at as liberal by the generation before that. Therefore as you are growing older you are not becoming more conservative, the line between conservative and liberal is just moving left.

 

Now that won't work on general issues that occur regardless of the current age (like financial stability and what not) but I think it would work for more social issues like gay marriage or the importance of religion.

[The Cysko Kid]

I'm kind of just ragging you there. Don't take that too seriously.

[FairHooker11]

Not looking good for the home team:

 

http://chicagoist.co...e_outpacing.php

 

Chicago: home of the nation's strictest gun laws - approaching a near total gun ban(8 murders in 1st 6 days of 2013). Other sites reporting 22 in 11 days.

 

 

Lets hope Obama is receiving tons of advice for his proposals and not "going with his gut."

 

 

this is business as usual for the campaigner in chief ...

 

look the other way and let it die on the vine, deny it ever existed or worse yet, claim credit for whatever is good about it... which it aint

 

but thats Chicago politics for you, he has Emanuel ( not the Savior) as his fall guy in charge there.

[Westside Steve]

Yeah, you guys are right. This thread sucked, and started no purposeful discussion.

 

Please return to more enlightening stuff like "Obamao's Past - What Background Check?", "Who Is Obamao? The Story In Pictures: Dangerous Marxist Pig Syndrome", and "Homosexual Bible Is A Fraud: all of you queers will burn in hell."

apparently you had to go to some other threads to find something to cry about. Ignore the fact that this legislation is meaningless.

 

But don't worry, I'm sure the folks who were outraged by the idea someone might check library records for people who checked out multiple terrorism books will be happy as clams to have all the other dirty laundry published.

Forgive me if I take a wait and see attitude to this latest panacea.

 

WSS

[heckofajobbrownie]

My God. You're unstoppable. Same post every time.

[calfoxwc]

Here, heckmoron, get a clue - that goes for your little flea, too....:

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”A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who would attempt to abuse them, which would include their own Government.” — George Washington on the 2nd Amendment

[The Cysko Kid]

Here, heckmoron, get a clue - that goes for your little flea, too....:

***********************************

 

”A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who would attempt to abuse them, which would include their own Government.” — George Washington on the 2nd Amendment

 

 

Bro. Cal. Get real. The government has the power to crush an insurrection in this country with minimal effort. It's not like the revolutionary war or the civil war where the playing field was a little more level. The military has an awful lot of hardware that would render an ar-15 pretty useless. A lot of the time when they kill people now its from strikes of armed drones. How do you expect to take that down with an assault rifle? If it were that easy they'd be taking them down left and right in the middle east where they have full automatics.

 

This defending yourself from the government arguement is fine and dandy if your government doesn't employ one of the largest and most technologically advanced armies In the world

[MLD Woody]

A lot of Cal's arguments seem to have a major flaw in them

 

Though I'm sure he doesn't think so

 

I'm sure he'll say I'm just a dumbass that doesn't contribute to this board or whatever his comment of the week is... idk

[Browns149]

Bro. Cal. Get real. The government has the power to crush an insurrection in this country with minimal effort. It's not like the revolutionary war or the civil war where the playing field was a little more level. The military has an awful lot of hardware that would render an ar-15 pretty useless. A lot of the time when they kill people now its from strikes of armed drones. How do you expect to take that down with an assault rifle? If it were that easy they'd be taking them down left and right in the middle east where they have full automatics.

 

This defending yourself from the government arguement is fine and dandy if your government doesn't employ one of the largest and most technologically advanced armies In the world

The Gov't doesn't want to ACT against it's own. Look at the last few times they did.

 

Waco Tx. The Gov't went in with TANKS................ which have much more firepower then auto-guns and big capicity handguns. The Gov't won. they killed EVERYONE.

 

Ruby ridge. The Gov't killed a child, and his mother.

 

In both places, RELIGION took over. AND THE GOV'T DIDN'T LIKE IT. No one was in ANY danger until the Gov't got involved. Both places were PEACEFUL until the FBI decided to show up, and then the ATF. And then people started getting killed.

[calfoxwc]

"A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who would attempt to abuse them, which would include their own Government." George Washington on the 2nd Amendment

*******************************************

 

Cysko - there is obvious truth to what you said , but that isn't all the quote by Washington implies.

 

It could be some Obamao "civilian security force" people run amok, acting out on their own. Sure, he doesn't have a civilian security force, but it could be two corrupt

 

agents from somewhere, it could be two or four gang members. Home invasions in Australia went up 21 percent after they took all the guns. The quote references ANY WHO WOULD ABUSE THEM

 

in their own homes, way out back on the farm... it's a silly argument that our military, in full force, would attack us. Our military IS us, you know.

 

Reference the parts of the historical video I posted - tyrants have eliminated soldiers with ties to the people, so all that's left is...

 

a force totally loyal to the tyrant. Then, add president marxist pig ObaMao's declaration that he needed a "civilian security force as well funded and ARMED as our military"....

 

how can you not take that very seriously?

 

Do you think that Stalin's raiding the breadbasket of the Soviet empire... leaving millions of those in the Ukraine to starve to death in agony....you think that's

 

a fairy tale? It's history. With the marxist/radical/communist background, and admitted leanings of Obamao, his statements, his contradictions in actions,

 

his vague promises.... anyone who knows history has to be at least a bit unnerved about this megalomania sp?. And the left's assault on gun ownership?

 

You think these tragedies will just stop? It won't, sadly. And THEN what is going to be the "new gun restriction" baloney? The U.N. and even, just this week, the Vatican,

 

wants Americans to be disarmed. Given the left's globalist visions, and vague definitions, and all out attacks on the Tea Party, the wealthy, Christians, those who "cling to their

 

guns and religion", "you didn't build that", Obamao's order giving him the right to declare martial law in PEACETIME, which includes a soviet era style takeover

 

of farms, farm equipment, FOOD PRODUCTION.... then the facts on the various takeovers of FOOD PRODUCTION in history...

 

It's history. Gun disarmament, "control", is history. It's also the attempted present. The marxist pig in our WH is the present.

 

It could be leftist "occupiers" raiding homes. How far is it from "you didn't build that" to a more desperate "you don't own that" ?

 

If the state, per Obamao, is justified to presume ownership of what "you didn't build"..... then why dispute that he could easily figure that

 

the state is justified to presume ownership of your homes? Your farms?

 

Then, go back and find that video I posted, about the FBI agent who infiltrated the weatherman underground, where they talked openly,

 

in a secret meeting amongst themselves, about how many millions of Americans would have to be "eliminated". Then go back and watch

 

that video about how genocidal tyrants have eliminated millions in history. Then consider Obamao's friendship with bill ayers and his father,

 

who funded his first political campaign.

 

Throughout history, marxist governments have stolen food and food production, to try to make their fatally flawed political system work.

 

Obamao said "spread the wealth".

 

And why all the criminalization of Americans who are independent, want to be left alone in freedom? Because, historically, tryannical governments

 

do NOT want to leave anybody alone. They must have complete control, to glean every last resource, every last bit of obedience, to make

 

marxist tyrannies function, at least long enough to consolidate their power. And when those resources aren't enough, the slaughter began.

 

Most Americans love their freedom. So far, Obamao is playing with fire, acting out a bit. It's all he learned in college, and in life.

 

Being just a bit concerned seems to be perfectly warranted, that's all.

 

I've heard that "liberals never think they are wrong in doing anything, when it fails, they just figure they weren't allowed to

 

do MORE of it..."

 

So, I see that being pretty valid. How far is it from what libs do, to demanding to do more of it?

 

See gun control. See incidents still happen. See more of it.

 

We are headed down a very serious path. We're in big trouble, at least on the horizon.

 

The darkness is spreading through Mordor and onward.

 

Besides, it makes for great theater !

[FairHooker11]

He's got stiffer penalties for people whose guns fall into the wrong hands, cops in schools, reversed the ban on studying gun safety, magazine size limited to 10 bullets. It's not bad. Lot of the stuff we were talking about.

 

The executive orders are pretty uncontroversial. Mostly housekeeping stuff.

 

 

just more subtle leftwing slog to numb the uninformed voter to believe that this process is entirely ok, especially when expediant to do so !

 

but mostly when the POTUS has NO ability to FORGE relationships in congress....

[FairHooker11]

Actually, there is something wrong with it because it's those fringe nuts that are bringing their entire party down. You can't nominate a presidential candidate that stands a good chance in the general election because of the religious right's insistence on legislating the morality of social issues.

 

 

The man proves my point.

 

 

yes but "legislating" morality of social issues are NOT the goals of conservatives....

 

being told what "morality" is defined by the left wing "fringe nuts" as the ONLY tolerable stand, and "we" wont tolerate

 

opposing views and "moral standards" is what the objection is....

 

 

 

so yes prove away hypocrites!