Officially Moving To 3-4

[cribbs is the man]

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=11381

 

Ray Horton has said we will run a 3-4 and mirror the Steelers D. The funny thing is he had no hesitation about this decision and it seems like he didn't really think at all about running a "hybrid defense", in fact he kind of poked fun at that idea (which came from Chud). My question is are Chud and Horton on the same page? Something about this doesn't sit we'll with me for some reason.

 

Also, thoughts about the 3-4 and our personnel for it? If we get a stud OLB, I actually don't think personnel wise the change will be as bad as in years past. Obviously it will still take time for the players to learn the new system though.

[FairHooker11]

with our guys it would seem to be all about the pass rush - nevermind anyone of the drop back lineman being able to cover recievers... let alone the current LB corps.

 

and pitts, cinci and balt OC coordinators will know what to do to counter.

 

we wont have a chance with the 3-4 alone without VERY GOOD LBs plus more corner and safety help

 

sorry, just not thinking this is gonna work well, blitzing every down?

 

OH but maybe a couple more draft years? sheeeeeit

 

but rich4eagle says its about the guys who touch the ball on offense so nevermind....

[ClevelandBigDawg]

When we originally made the switch we didn't have anyone who could make the transition. We had to acquire Shaun Rogers and Corey Williams which costed us a 2nd and a 3rd rounder. Then we had to pick up Kenyon Colemon and I think it was CJ Mosley? Now we already have Rubin and Taylor who both have the size and motor to play in the 3-4 and players like Hughes and Winn who would be capable to play in the middle or on the end. I think that Frostee could also play in the 3-4

 

We need a LB either way, but I feel like if we stayed in the 3-4 we would need an LB and a DE. Now LB is the only real pressing need of the two, but now it is crucial that we get one. There are some good 3-4 DEs and LBs in the FA this year too. A lot also depends on Sheards ability to transfer to LB. I don't think it will be as bad as some people seem to believe.

[The Gipper]

Well, lets look at the Browns official roster to see what they have to operate this 3-4:

 

The following players are listed as strictly Defensive Ends:

Juqua Parker

Frostee Rucker

 

The following player is the only one listed as strictly a Defensive Tackle:

John Hughes...the Sausage King

 

All of these others are listed simply as Defensive Linemen...not sure what that means:

Hall Davis

Isma'aly Kitchen

Aytabha Rubin

Jaball Sheard

Phil Taylor

Billy Winn

Austin English...Yea, Baby

Brian Sanford

Emmanuel Stephens

Rickey Elmore

Kendrick Adams

 

Linebackers are not designated inside or outside, just LBs:

Tank Carder

D'Qwell Jackson

Kaluka Maiava

Adrian Moten

Craig Robertson

LJ Fort

Emmanuel Acho

Chris Gocong

James Michael Johnson

 

I know that some of these players will be FAs after the Super Bowl...like Maiava.

 

Assuming arguendo that the Browns do nothing to shore up either the DL or LB corps...can they justifiably go to the 3-4 with this talent on hand?

Yes, its a rhetorical question because the answer is clearly no. But who fill what roles?

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

 

Linebackers are not designated inside or outside, just LBs:

Tank Carder

D'Qwell Jackson

Kaluka Maiava

Adrian Moten

Craig Robertson

LJ Fort

Emmanuel Acho

Chris Gocong

James Michael Johnson

 

I know that some of these players will be FAs after the Super Bowl...like Maiava.

 

Assuming arguendo that the Browns do nothing to shore up either the DL or LB corps...can they justifiably go to the 3-4 with this talent on hand?

Yes, its a rhetorical question because the answer is clearly no. But who fill what roles?

 

Were on the same page here. DQ is the only lb we've actually seen make plays.

 

Robertson has made nice strides over 2 seasons and could very well start next year in my opinion.

 

Gocong played well as did Maiava but are they gonna cut it from an athleticism standpoint? ....(Depth?)

 

JMJ and Fort did average but nothing spectacular and we haven't seen a thing from Moten or Acho have we?

 

and Carder was mainly special teams but he's another young lb we haven't seen enough of.

[The Gipper]

With this 3-4 deal, it seems to me that only a couple of the front 7 spots are a definite, personell wise:

 

A. I am assuming that Taylor and Hughes will be the nose tackles...but is that for sure?

 

B. DQ will play one of the ILB spots.

 

 

Will Rubin, Winn, Sheard, Parker, Rucker, Kitchen play the DE spots? Or will Rubin be a NT?

Or will Shear play a LB spot?

 

I think JMJ played primarily ILB in a 3-4 in college, so maybe he can fill that other ILB spot next to DQ.

 

For some reason I think Gocong is history....though maybe Joe Banner still likes him from his Philly days. Can Fort/Robertson/Acho fill the OLB roles.

 

More than ever now I think the Browns may be after Jarvis Jones or the like.

[FairHooker11]

I just think Sheard is is a vertical player- just let him attack.

 

He might be able to drop back into coverage but we dont know?

 

 

 

 

[The Gipper]

Here is the list of Outside linebackers projected to possibly go as high as the third round, per CBS Sports. Their overall prospect rating is included:

 

#7 Jarvis Jones, Georgia

#23 Alec Ogletree, Georgia (really, Ga. had 2 best prospects?)

#56 Khaseem Green, Rutgers

#64 Arthur Brown, Kansas St. (The Crazy World of)

#65 Sean Porter, Texas A&M

#70 Chase Thoms, Stanford

#72 Brandon Jenkins, Florida St.

#79 John Simon, Ohio St.

#82 Jamie Collins, So. Miss.

#92 Jelanie Jenkins, Florida

#105 Travis Long, Wash. St.

#112 Trevardo Williams, UConn

 

Now, that seems like a pretty deep list of prospects. I know from watching OSU that John Simon has a hell of a motor. He is reminiscent of Mike Vrabel...which would be good. If he were picked up as a 3rd rounder, great.

Any thoughts on any of the others?

[The Gipper]

I do note that on the CBS rankings recently that Manti Teo dropped from like Top 5 or 10 to completely out of the first round rankings. Down to #37.

[The Gipper]

If they were to pick up LB Arthur Brown out of Kansas State, I would fully expect him to light a fire with this defense:

 

[mdmusch]

Arthur Brown would get eaten alive in a 3-4... He will be a great 4-3 backer

[The Gipper]

Arthur Brown would get eaten alive in a 3-4... He will be a great 4-3 backer

 

In other words, he would get "burned" in the 3-4?

[7moses7]

Don't give a shit what defense we play.Bottom line is tackle the guy with the ball and WIN some Goddam games!

[cribbs is the man]

Here is the list of Outside linebackers projected to possibly go as high as the third round, per CBS Sports. Their overall prospect rating is included:

 

#7 Jarvis Jones, Georgia

#23 Alec Ogletree, Georgia (really, Ga. had 2 best prospects?)

#56 Khaseem Green, Rutgers

#64 Arthur Brown, Kansas St. (The Crazy World of)

#65 Sean Porter, Texas A&M

#70 Chase Thoms, Stanford

#72 Brandon Jenkins, Florida St.

#79 John Simon, Ohio St.

#82 Jamie Collins, So. Miss.

#92 Jelanie Jenkins, Florida

#105 Travis Long, Wash. St.

#112 Trevardo Williams, UConn

 

Now, that seems like a pretty deep list of prospects. I know from watching OSU that John Simon has a hell of a motor. He is reminiscent of Mike Vrabel...which would be good. If he were picked up as a 3rd rounder, great.

Any thoughts on any of the others?

 

A guy who is probably listed as a DE (and not on that list) who I like is Damontre Moore from Texas A&M

[miktoxic]

or 'in other words' .........

 

 

just bring mangini back.

 

OHHH!!

[ballpeen]

I found this a interesting read as I was browsing around.

 

 

 

DraftBrowns.com

Editor: Brendan Leister

 

With Ray Horton being brought in as the Cleveland Browns’ new defensive coordinator, a switch to an attacking 3-4 defense seems to be in the cards. With the switch, most of the players in the front seven are in line for a position change. None of these projections are sure things. I could be way off on a few of them, but I am simply looking at the players’ skill sets and projecting them the best I possibly can.

 

Ahtyba Rubin:

 

When the Browns previously employed a 3-4 defense, Ahtyba Rubin was the nose tackle. I expect him to return to the position. He may have the athletic ability to hold up as a 5-technique (defensive end in a 3-4), but I feel that his best fit is at nose. Rubin isn’t ever going to be an elite nose tackle, but he’s a solid starter and his skill set fits the position well.

 

Phil Taylor:

 

When Phil Taylor came out of Baylor, many draft pundits hyped him up as a pure nose tackle. Due to the hype, many expected Taylor to be drafted by a 3-4 team. In watching Taylor at Baylor, I always felt he had the athletic ability and versatility to play anywhere from nose tackle to 5-technique on the defensive line at the next level. Simply using him as a nose tackle and not moving him around at all would be wasting the freakish athletic ability that he possesses for a man his size. I expect Ray Horton to use Taylor in multiple spots on the defensive line, but in the base defense, I think that he’ll start at 5-technique (defensive end). Taylor has the combination of athletic ability and strength to really thrive at the position.

 

Billy Winn:

 

In being drafted in the sixth round, Billy Winn wasn’t expected to be a big-time contributor during his rookie season. Now that the 2012 season is in the books, his future looks very bright. Winn showed impressive athletic ability for a defensive tackle and also showed a great deal of versatility. He dropped into coverage on 18 snaps and lined up as a defensive end on 43 snaps in 2012. This versatility will help Winn in transitioning to Ray Horton’s defense. I expect Winn to compete for a starting position at 5-technique opposite Phil Taylor. I also expect Horton to take advantage of Winn’s versatility and athletic ability by moving him around.

 

Jabaal Sheard:

 

When Jabaal Sheard was in the 2011 NFL Draft, many expected him to be a good fit as an outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense. After playing his first two seasons at left defensive end, it’s time for Sheard to make the switch. Sheard’s role won’t change a ton as he makes the transition. Rather than being in a 3-point stance on most downs, Sheard will be standing up the majority of the time now. He will still be asked to rush the passer most of the time. Also, this may be surprising to many, but Sheard stood up on 22.1% of pass plays in 2012 and dropped into coverage on 6.1% of those plays. Sheard will undoubtedly have to drop into coverage more often and he may have to lose some weight (may not have to), but his skill set fits the position well and I expect him to play well in Ray Horton’s defensive scheme.....

[Zombo]

I found this a interesting read as I was browsing around.

 

 

 

DraftBrowns.com

Editor: Brendan Leister

 

With Ray Horton being brought in as the Cleveland Browns’ new defensive coordinator, a switch to an attacking 3-4 defense seems to be in the cards. With the switch, most of the players in the front seven are in line for a position change. None of these projections are sure things. I could be way off on a few of them, but I am simply looking at the players’ skill sets and projecting them the best I possibly can.

 

Ahtyba Rubin:

 

When the Browns previously employed a 3-4 defense, Ahtyba Rubin was the nose tackle. I expect him to return to the position. He may have the athletic ability to hold up as a 5-technique (defensive end in a 3-4), but I feel that his best fit is at nose. Rubin isn’t ever going to be an elite nose tackle, but he’s a solid starter and his skill set fits the position well.

 

Phil Taylor:

 

When Phil Taylor came out of Baylor, many draft pundits hyped him up as a pure nose tackle. Due to the hype, many expected Taylor to be drafted by a 3-4 team. In watching Taylor at Baylor, I always felt he had the athletic ability and versatility to play anywhere from nose tackle to 5-technique on the defensive line at the next level. Simply using him as a nose tackle and not moving him around at all would be wasting the freakish athletic ability that he possesses for a man his size. I expect Ray Horton to use Taylor in multiple spots on the defensive line, but in the base defense, I think that he’ll start at 5-technique (defensive end). Taylor has the combination of athletic ability and strength to really thrive at the position.

 

Billy Winn:

 

In being drafted in the sixth round, Billy Winn wasn’t expected to be a big-time contributor during his rookie season. Now that the 2012 season is in the books, his future looks very bright. Winn showed impressive athletic ability for a defensive tackle and also showed a great deal of versatility. He dropped into coverage on 18 snaps and lined up as a defensive end on 43 snaps in 2012. This versatility will help Winn in transitioning to Ray Horton’s defense. I expect Winn to compete for a starting position at 5-technique opposite Phil Taylor. I also expect Horton to take advantage of Winn’s versatility and athletic ability by moving him around.

 

Jabaal Sheard:

 

When Jabaal Sheard was in the 2011 NFL Draft, many expected him to be a good fit as an outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense. After playing his first two seasons at left defensive end, it’s time for Sheard to make the switch. Sheard’s role won’t change a ton as he makes the transition. Rather than being in a 3-point stance on most downs, Sheard will be standing up the majority of the time now. He will still be asked to rush the passer most of the time. Also, this may be surprising to many, but Sheard stood up on 22.1% of pass plays in 2012 and dropped into coverage on 6.1% of those plays. Sheard will undoubtedly have to drop into coverage more often and he may have to lose some weight (may not have to), but his skill set fits the position well and I expect him to play well in Ray Horton’s defensive scheme.....

 

Ya, I see a Taylor-Rubin-Rucker line with Billy Winn rotating with Taylor and Rucker and Hughes and Taylor rotating inside with Rubin. Sheard will be the Vrabel/Harrison guy that will be a primary pash rusher who plays linebacker and also will be in a three point stance at times. I can see Jackson and Maiva/Gocong* inside and somebody new on the other outside.

 

I don't think there is any need to panic, personnel wise, that we are moving to the 3-4. But we still need a corner, a safety and a OLB for sure.

 

Zombo

--*assuming Gocong is healthy and in a good contract situation, not sure what the deal is there.

[FairHooker11]

In other words, he would get "burned" in the 3-4?

 

 

I remember that song as being the devils music of the time! boy have times changed...

 

I think DQuell may get burned too in the 3-4 (he did under Mangini/Ryan) unless Horton can help there?

 

I like Craig Robertsons development too, but again - thriving in the 4-3

 

 

We need a LB who is just plain nasty.... and can lead?

 

 

Horton - better be able to "teach ya to learn"

[maddogg7888]

DE:Taylor, Parker

DT:Rubin, Hughes, Kitchen

DE:Rucker, Winn

 

OLB:Sheard, Fort

MLB:Jackson, Maiava

MLB:Gocong, Acho

OLB:Robertson,JMJ

 

That's how I see the best lineup with our current roster, having said that a big time OLB would be needed as well as a CB and Safety, we have plenty of D-line depth but some more MLB depth in the later rounds would be nice

[Zombo]

DE:Taylor, Parker

DT:Rubin, Hughes, Kitchen

DE:Rucker, Winn

 

OLB:Sheard, Fort

MLB:Jackson, Maiava

MLB:Gocong, Acho

OLB:Robertson,JMJ

 

That's how I see the best lineup with our current roster, having said that a big time OLB would be needed as well as a CB and Safety, we have plenty of D-line depth but some more MLB depth in the later rounds would be nice

 

Yep, we agree...

 

Z

[NaplesBrowns420]

I think our d will be pretty good if we get a quality olb, cb, and safety. Our d-line is stout, and we are a olb away from a good backer corp. With a couple good pieces to our backs, we are a dangerous defense.

[mdmusch]

I'm pulling for Ansah in the draft, the problem is that his best position is really the only spot that Sheard will fit in (the 3-4 OLB who rushes and/or plays down hill 75% of the time). Dion Jordan on the other hand would be a great compliment on the only side with good coverage and decent pass rush ability.

 

The D-Line should be fine with Taylor-Rubin-Rucker/Winn

[b86b]

DE:Taylor, Parker

DT:Rubin, Hughes, Kitchen

DE:Rucker, Winn

 

OLB:Sheard, Fort

MLB:Jackson, Maiava

MLB:Gocong, Acho

OLB:Robertson,JMJ

 

That's how I see the best lineup with our current roster, having said that a big time OLB would be needed as well as a CB and Safety, we have plenty of D-line depth but some more MLB depth in the later rounds would be nice

Mingo or Moore would look great on that depth chart!!!

[slimdawg]

Ya, I see a Taylor-Rubin-Rucker line with Billy Winn rotating with Taylor and Rucker and Hughes and Taylor rotating inside with Rubin. Sheard will be the Vrabel/Harrison guy that will be a primary pash rusher who plays linebacker and also will be in a three point stance at times. I can see Jackson and Maiva/Gocong* inside and somebody new on the other outside.

 

I don't think there is any need to panic, personnel wise, that we are moving to the 3-4. But we still need a corner, a safety and a OLB for sure.

 

Zombo

--*assuming Gocong is healthy and in a good contract situation, not sure what the deal is there.

 

Do you think Robertson fits in anywhere? I could see him playing OLB opposite Sheard. I think he's shown some good quickness and attacked the ball pretty good, made plays all over the place it seemed and i thought he did a good job when he was asked to drop back into coverage. Also he's only going into his 3rd year so he should be peaking in the next few years. Or would he be better in the middle next to DQ? Personally i would like to see that combo in the middle, i think they'd be pretty tough together in there.

[miktoxic]

i don't understand the talk about our D line. i think we're pretty solid there. if a DE fell in our lap to bookend sheard then great. but i don't see ourselves drafting that position before LB, CB or safety.

 

if we do, then i know banner and lombardi are shit and we'll suck for another 20 years.

[Comeonman]

Jarvis jones should be the pick. He is the best linebacker in the draft, and if we're going to the three four we HAVE to improve our LB corps. Everyone talks about he COULD get hurt. Anyone COULD get hurt. TRich was injured before and after he was drafted, still think he was a great pick. Jones is the best choice for us right now

[Richiswhere]

When its all said and done Alec Ogletree will be the 1st OLB drafted.

[Comeonman]

Has anyone ever accused you of being insane?

[cribbs is the man]

i don't understand the talk about our D line. i think we're pretty solid there. if a DE fell in our lap to bookend sheard then great. but i don't see ourselves drafting that position before LB, CB or safety.

 

if we do, then i know banner and lombardi are shit and we'll suck for another 20 years.

Sheard is no longer a DE...

[The Italian DawgPound]

I think we all know that playing a 4-3 or a 3-4 defense will not solve our problems because still it's the players you have that makes the difference.

I only don't understand one thing: we need a number of good defensive players to approach next season hoping it will be the turnaround of this franchise and getting them via draft or FA will not be easy.

So why switching to a system that will cause us to need even more skilled players than the current one?

I have nothing against playing a 3-4. I just don't want that decision to slow down the rebuilding process.

I want to win games, sweep Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Cincinnati and make it to the Super Bowl!

Is that clear enough, Chud?