Reason For Uncertainty Involving Bw3

[The Gipper]

Here, in my opinion is the simple reason that some say the Brandon Weeden is on thin ice as the starting QB of the Browns:

 

EGO.

 

Yes, as simple as that. It has nothing to do with his arm, or his capabilities as the potential QB of this team, or whether or not he may do well in the Chud/Norv offense.

 

It has all to do with Mike Lombardi's ego on 2 counts: A. Lombardi will feel that he will have to justify the previous opinion he had of BW3 that he essentially pulled out of his ass. He frequently made comments about players in his previous position there at the NFL Network just to provoke controversy...whether he believed his comments or not. By dumping Weeden without giving him a fair shake is just an ego move so that he won't be seen to have egg on his face and to have to reverse his opinion on BW3. B. Weeden simply isn't "his guy". It doesn't matter how good he is, it ONLY matters to Lombardi that he was selected by the prior regime....and QB being the most important position on the field Lombardi will want to make HIS mark with HIS guy, and he won't want to give Tom Heckert of the Walrus any kind of credit for finding and taking BW3.

He will take a schlub like Matt Moore....or Derek Anderson....or something he fishes out of the fifth round or wherever rather than admit that a guy he said was no good might actually work out....or allow a holdover from the prior group.

From everything I have read and heard about the guy, he is simply that venal as to take such a step.

It is one of the reasons why oh so many of the sportwriters/broadcasters around this town have no faith, trust, or confidence in this guy.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

I think Lombardi was just doing his job and if he didn't like Weeden then oh well. He now has 15 nfl starts under his belt to be evaluated, as well as an offseason to compete.

[The Gipper]

By the way, I think it may have been Mel Kiper or McShay, or both who said that if BW3 were available in this year's draft, he would be the first QB taken, no doubt.

[b86b]

I have a feeling Egos are gonna be a big part of a lot of decision in Berea. Can see them trying to be cute and shit trying to prove they are smarter then everybody else.

[Erie Dawg]

By the way, I think it may have been Mel Kiper or McShay, or both who said that if BW3 were available in this year's draft, he would be the first QB taken, no doubt.

without a doubt.

Why is it I have this feeling that none of the top 5 teams in the draft take a QB? And I honestly could see us taking Geno Smith at 6?

For some reason it wouldn't shock me.

There are reports of matt moore being on the radar but I don't see too many available QB's that are nothing more than a sideways move.

[miktoxic]

man if we draft another QB this year i'm gonna fuckin puke and realize that this regime is the same regime as the last and the last one, the one before that one, and the one before that.

 

does anyone have any common sense?

 

what's another year with weeden? i mean we've only sucked for the last 20 years.

 

all i know is i'm getting sick of the term 'evaluation year'. it's funny how only QBs get that leeway.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

without a doubt.

Why is it I have this feeling that none of the top 5 teams in the draft take a QB? And I honestly could see us taking Geno Smith at 6?

For some reason it wouldn't shock me.

There are reports of matt moore being on the radar but I don't see too many available QB's that are nothing more than a sideways move.

 

Depending on what team gets him, Geno Smith can have a very solid NFL career.

 

I think he can have Russell Wilson type success. He's an exceptional passer and makes good decisions, as evidenced by his TD: INT ratio. He is going to fly under the radar so to speak because his production slipped this season but I think when all is said and done, he'll be the most successful of any QB in this draft.

[Erie Dawg]

Depending on what team gets him, Geno Smith can have a very solid NFL career.

 

I think he can have Russell Wilson type success. He's an exceptional passer and makes good decisions, as evidenced by his TD: INT ratio. He is going to fly under the radar so to speak because his production slipped this season but I think when all is said and done, he'll be the most successful of any QB in this draft.

Watched him a little in 2011, but not so much this year his numbers are impressive but looking at some of the teams they have played the last couple years may have inflated his numbers some. But your not really going out on a limb calling him possibly the most successful qb in the draft.

[slowburn]

Depending on what team gets him, Geno Smith can have a very solid NFL career.

 

I think he can have Russell Wilson type success. He's an exceptional passer and makes good decisions, as evidenced by his TD: INT ratio. He is going to fly under the radar so to speak because his production slipped this season but I think when all is said and done, he'll be the most successful of any QB in this draft.

Smith has some definite upsides beside the obvious. Like Wilson he has a very high IQ which can't hurt in his decision making in the pro league. He will

 

have one of the top scores in the Wonderlic tests given at the combine. Wilson was smart to stay in college for four years and got coaching that really

 

boosted his game. If you are looking at draft value...Wilson was a steal. Smith had good stablity in his development his last two years

 

at WVU with a coach(s)getting him ready for a pro style, passing based offense. The kid has great potential.

[miktoxic]

Smith has some definite upsides beside the obvious.

 

until he gets hit. isn't he smaller in mass than RG3? and we all know what's gonna happen to him next year.

[slowburn]

durability always an issue. guess we will find out just how smart he is.

[Erie Dawg]

until he gets hit. isn't he smaller in mass than RG3? and we all know what's gonna happen to him next year.

smith 6'3 214lbs projected 4.78 40yd time

Rg3 6'2 223lbs 4.41 40yd time

[Canton Mike]

I see Weeden getting a fair evaluation & chance from very qualified Coaches. I don't worry about EGO, whether it be Lombardi's or someone else's & here's why. Haslam is no "half-assed" Owner such as we've seen before. The man didn't build his current wealth by catering to someone else's ego & I trust that IF he saw a scenario like that starting, he would nip it in the bud. He has worked hard so far to get this train on a track to success & I just don't see Jimmy tolerating ANY part of the train jumping the tracks.

We'll see what happens, but I see him being involved in a very positive way.

Mike

[D Bone]

By the way, I think it may have been Mel Kiper or McShay, or both who said that if BW3 were available in this year's draft, he would be the first QB taken, no doubt.

 

Plus, he'd be eligible for SSI, so that would save some cap room.

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Watched him a little in 2011, but not so much this year his numbers are impressive but looking at some of the teams they have played the last couple years may have inflated his numbers some. But your not really going out on a limb calling him possibly the most successful qb in the draft.

 

I never claimed it to be a bold prediction.

 

But I think Smith will do a lot better than most anticipate. The one thing he has that most of the QB's in this draft don't is the uncanny knack for extending plays.

 

Zac Dyset also seems to possess a proficiency for extending plays, but his skill set isn't that of Smith's.

 

Smith reminds me of Donovan McNabb. He's not the fastest QB or the most elusive but he's aware enough and just quick enough to elude defenders and make a play.

[The Gipper]

I see Weeden getting a fair evaluation & chance from very qualified Coaches. I don't worry about EGO, whether it be Lombardi's or someone else's & here's why. Haslam is no "half-assed" Owner such as we've seen before. The man didn't build his current wealth by catering to someone else's ego & I trust that IF he saw a scenario like that starting, he would nip it in the bud. He has worked hard so far to get this train on a track to success & I just don't see Jimmy tolerating ANY part of the train jumping the tracks.

We'll see what happens, but I see him being involved in a very positive way.

Mike

 

I think...and hope that you are right, Mike. On the other hand I think JH is a guy who hires guys he thinks are professionals and allows them to do their job. If he believes in Lombardi and Lombardi wants to dump a QB that HE doesn't like, I suspect that JH will go along.

But, like I said, too many people in this town who are in a position to know DO NOT trust Lombardi to do anything but what makes Lombardi look good.

And I think many of them believe that Lombardi doing a mea culpa is NOT in his character makeup.

[CLEVELANDwantsPLAYOFFS]

We might have QUITE the QB controversy this offseason

[The Gipper]

I never claimed it to be a bold prediction.

 

But I think Smith will do a lot better than most anticipate. The one thing he has that most of the QB's in this draft don't is the uncanny knack for extending plays.

 

Zac Dyset also seems to possess a proficiency for extending plays, but his skill set isn't that of Smith's.

 

Smith reminds me of Donovan McNabb. He's not the fastest QB or the most elusive but he's aware enough and just quick enough to elude defenders and make a play.

 

 

Geno Smith was hot, hot, hot when the last college season began....a shoe in for the Heisman....and the sure fire first overall pick. Then he petered out and basically disappeared.

The guy does intrigue me because I saw him play lights out in those first few games....and he looked every bit as good as an RGIII.....but then he petered out.

 

So? What happened to him?

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Geno Smith was hot, hot, hot when the last college season began....a shoe in for the Heisman....and the sure fire first overall pick. Then he petered out and basically disappeared.

The guy does intrigue me because I saw him play lights out in those first few games....and he looked every bit as good as an RGIII.....but then he petered out.

 

So? What happened to him?

 

 

The problem was two-fold.

 

First, Dana Holgorsen changed the offense. The Mountaineers rushed the ball nearly 50 more times in 2012 than they did in 2011. Their rushing attack was supposed to be more of a feature and less of a supplement to Smith.

 

Unfortunately, West Virginia's defense was awful. They were allowing opponents to score nearly 40 points per game. With sticking to the rush and their defense being a sieve, Smith had to play from behind for a majority of last season, and forced too many passes trying to overcompensate.

 

Honestly, with the way their defense played, it's amazing they won as many games as they did. If Maryland and Texas had viable starting QB's, they both would have beaten West Virginia.

 

 

When your offense feels like it has to make up for the ineffectiveness of your defense, things are bound to go wrong.

 

 

Geno Smith still threw for 42 TD's to 7 INT's with a 71.2 completion percentage...in a "bad" year with a bad team.

 

17 TDs and 4 INT's and 1,387 yards against top 25 teams last season. I'd take him.

[hoorta]

I think...and hope that you are right, Mike. On the other hand I think JH is a guy who hires guys he thinks are professionals and allows them to do their job. If he believes in Lombardi and Lombardi wants to dump a QB that HE doesn't like, I suspect that JH will go along.

But, like I said, too many people in this town who are in a position to know DO NOT trust Lombardi to do anything but what makes Lombardi look good.

And I think many of them believe that Lombardi doing a mea culpa is NOT in his character makeup.

 

 

One thing for sure Gip. Haslam's no dummy, and knows there was plenty of bad karma letting Banner bring Lombardi back to Cleveland in the first place. He certainly listened to Lombardi's presser where Mike about told Tony Grossi to give him a chance. You can take it to the bank Grossi will blast Lombardi out of the water after his first screw up. So I'd say ML has about a one year trial period to show he's learned how to draft and run a personnel office. To my mind, it's going to depend on who has final say on the players- Chud or Mike.

[The Gipper]

One thing for sure Gip. Haslam's no dummy, and knows there was plenty of bad karma letting Banner bring Lombardi back to Cleveland in the first place. He certainly listened to Lombardi's presser where Mike about told Tony Grossi to give him a chance. You can take it to the bank Grossi will blast Lombardi out of the water after his first screw up. So I'd say ML has about a one year trial period to show he's learned how to draft and run a personnel office. To my mind, it's going to depend on who has final say on the players- Chud or Mike.

 

From the fans stand point I don't think he has a year. He has until the upcoming FA period ends...and until the end of April...and particularly when the first part of Sept. rolls around and WE fans expect whatever he does to bear fruit right here, right now.

 

There is no honeymoon. There is no grace period. There is only winning or getting the fuck out.

[miktoxic]

Haslam is no "half-assed" Owner such as we've seen before

 

i hope the hire of banner doesn't come back to bite him in the ass. his hire (banner's) of lombardi was god awful IMO. i would have kept hecket. i don't see all this reasoning around cleaning house from top to bottom. if a guy has done a good, keep him on the staff. banner let his ego get in the way there, because of whatever tiff there was between he and heckert.

[thenew23]

This is a pretty big exaggeration/overreaction on the part of Browns' fans, and particularly Cleveland media. Lombardi is not the GM, and has never been told he was given final say on ANYTHING, let alone our first round draft pick. Let's look at the guys who will be involved in making player decisions this offseason:

 

Jimmy Haslam, Owner

Joe Banner, CEO

Lombardi

Rob Chudzinski, HC

Norv Turner, OC

Ray Horton, DC

Scott Tabor, STC

Jon Sandusky, Director of player personnel (has been doing it for years and was a Banner guy before coming over with Heckert)

John Spytek, Director of college scouting (was brought up as a scout with Banner, and was brought over by Heckert and has done an incredible job)

 

That is a pretty crowded room with a lot of veteran "football guys." I just don't see where Lombardi's "ego" can step in and convince all of these guys to make a foolish decision. That's just my opinion at least.

[Canton Mike]

This is a pretty big exaggeration/overreaction on the part of Browns' fans, and particularly Cleveland media. Lombardi is not the GM, and has never been told he was given final say on ANYTHING, let alone our first round draft pick. Let's look at the guys who will be involved in making player decisions this offseason:

 

Jimmy Haslam, Owner

Joe Banner, CEO

Lombardi

Rob Chudzinski, HC

Norv Turner, OC

Ray Horton, DC

Scott Tabor, STC

Jon Sandusky, Director of player personnel (has been doing it for years and was a Banner guy before coming over with Heckert)

John Spytek, Director of college scouting (was brought up as a scout with Banner, and was brought over by Heckert and has done an incredible job)

 

That is a pretty crowded room with a lot of veteran "football guys." I just don't see where Lombardi's "ego" can step in and convince all of these guys to make a foolish decision. That's just my opinion at least.

 

Pretty much my point earlier. This is a totally different "scheme" in Cleveland & I also believe no ONE guy will be able to gum up the works. I'm excited to see what happens.

 

Mike

[The Gipper]

This is a pretty big exaggeration/overreaction on the part of Browns' fans, and particularly Cleveland media. Lombardi is not the GM, and has never been told he was given final say on ANYTHING, let alone our first round draft pick. Let's look at the guys who will be involved in making player decisions this offseason:

 

Jimmy Haslam, Owner

Joe Banner, CEO

Lombardi

Rob Chudzinski, HC

Norv Turner, OC

Ray Horton, DC

Scott Tabor, STC

Jon Sandusky, Director of player personnel (has been doing it for years and was a Banner guy before coming over with Heckert)

John Spytek, Director of college scouting (was brought up as a scout with Banner, and was brought over by Heckert and has done an incredible job)

 

That is a pretty crowded room with a lot of veteran "football guys." I just don't see where Lombardi's "ego" can step in and convince all of these guys to make a foolish decision. That's just my opinion at least.

 

Well, let's hope you are right. But, the fact is there IS a lot of "My Guy" mentality in the NFL.

 

Sometimes that works good, like Jim Harbaugh going with Kaepernick over Smith. But as often as not the ego pull of putting "my guy" in place doesn't work out so well.

[hoorta]

i hope the hire of banner doesn't come back to bite him in the ass. his hire (banner's) of lombardi was god awful IMO. i would have kept hecket. i don't see all this reasoning around cleaning house from top to bottom. if a guy has done a good, keep him on the staff. banner let his ego get in the way there, because of whatever tiff there was between he and heckert.

 

I tend to agrre with you Mik. Banner is (was) highly regarded around the NFL though. Can't see how Lombardi's track record in any way was superior to Heckert's? I sure hope the other poster is right that Lombardi will only have one voice out of 8 when it comes to personnel decisions and the draft.

 

From the fans stand point I don't think he has a year. He has until the upcoming FA period ends...and until the end of April...and particularly when the first part of Sept. rolls around and WE fans expect whatever he does to bear fruit right here, right now.

 

There is no honeymoon. There is no grace period. There is only winning or getting the fuck out.

 

Amen to that Gipper. Banner was on record he put his ass on the line bringing in ML, and if Mike screws up, Joe's going to be out of work too.

Though I want to see what happens in FA and the draft before I start the run Lombardi out of town chant. Another good indicator of Haslam's intentions will come when the Love (extortion) Letter from Berea comes sometime in March as to how much the 2013 season tickets will cost.

[Dste Ace]

The problem was two-fold.

 

First, Dana Holgorsen changed the offense. The Mountaineers rushed the ball nearly 50 more times in 2012 than they did in 2011. Their rushing attack was supposed to be more of a feature and less of a supplement to Smith.

 

Unfortunately, West Virginia's defense was awful. They were allowing opponents to score nearly 40 points per game. With sticking to the rush and their defense being a sieve, Smith had to play from behind for a majority of last season, and forced too many passes trying to overcompensate.

 

Honestly, with the way their defense played, it's amazing they won as many games as they did. If Maryland and Texas had viable starting QB's, they both would have beaten West Virginia.

 

 

When your offense feels like it has to make up for the ineffectiveness of your defense, things are bound to go wrong.

 

 

Geno Smith still threw for 42 TD's to 7 INT's with a 71.2 completion percentage...in a "bad" year with a bad team.

 

17 TDs and 4 INT's and 1,387 yards against top 25 teams last season. I'd take him.

 

 

You could even say that West Virginia's defense was god-awful.

 

The other major factor in Smith's fall-off was the fact that other than Smith, Tavon Austin, and Stedman Baily, the

rest of the talent on offense was pretty unimpressive. Shawn Alston started the season as a wrecking ball at RB but

suffered a deep thigh bruise against James Madison in the second (3rd?) game and his effectiveness was ended for the

season. Throw in an unimpressive offensive line and the die was cast for the rest of the season.

 

I just don't know about Geno Smith. When he's going good, man, he can be lights out. When things aren't going his way

though (watch the bowl game with Syracuse) it's not a pretty sight. On Dana Holgerson's strong suggestion he ran a lot

less this season and tried to stay in the pocket more. But he can be very effective at avoiding the rush, extending the play

and running for positive yardage with deceptive speed. He looks sort-of uncoordinated and slow when he runs but he definitely

gets the job done. He's very intelligent--his film study habits at WVU are legendary. His durability is a question with me, however. Like RGIII, he is slow to get up after a hit, in a way that makes you hold your breath.

 

I wouldn't be upset to see Smith wearing the Brown & Orange, just not at the expense of a first round #6.